# Lounge > Home and Garden >  Progressive New Home Warranty Claim Dispute

## HuMz

Just wondering if anyone has had their warranty claim rejected incorrectly, and what avenue they took to get the issue covered? Try to stay within progressive, go directly to the government representative with regards to home warranty or something else?

I have some major air leakage into my house, leading to some frost forming on drywall/baseboards. Progressive has deemed this not a defect and not really sure the best course of action to take (builder is basically out of the picture).

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## ExtraSlow

Does anyone remember when new home warranty was optional? 
Pepperidge Farms remembers.

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## XylathaneGTR

I had a very clear warranty issue which Progressive ruled incorrectly on and dismissed. The claim response should include an escalation process and contact for dispute. 

I had to escalate the issue up 3 levels, to the backing insurance company, before they acknowledged the claim was actually valid and took action. Every time, I provided backup which clearly supported this as a valid warranty claim (e.g. even dug into the national building code to flag the relevant clauses).

Stay cool, and stay persistent. These new home warranty companies are all useless and do not exist to serve the Customer and their mission is to pay out as little as possible.

Edit: I also raised the issue with the builder, who dragged their feet on it. Worth discussing with the builder as well, as they may ultimately be accountable to fix.

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## gwill

Every warranty has very clearly laid out guidelines for what's considered a deficiency.
Have you read the specific section that relates to your warranty claim?

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## HuMz

> Every warranty has very clearly laid out guidelines for what's considered a deficiency.
> Have you read the specific section that relates to your warranty claim?



Yes, although me knowing the specific deficiency isn't helpful (or hasn't been), since my case was immediately closed.

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> I had a very clear warranty issue which Progressive ruled incorrectly on and dismissed. The claim response should include an escalation process and contact for dispute. 
> 
> I had to escalate the issue up 3 levels, to the backing insurance company, before they acknowledged the claim was actually valid and took action. Every time, I provided backup which clearly supported this as a valid warranty claim (e.g. even dug into the national building code to flag the relevant clauses).
> 
> Stay cool, and stay persistent. These new home warranty companies are all useless and do not exist to serve the Customer and their mission is to pay out as little as possible.
> 
> Edit: I also raised the issue with the builder, who dragged their feet on it. Worth discussing with the builder as well, as they may ultimately be accountable to fix.



This is what I was looking for thanks. Does the new home warranty cover failures to do not meeting building code as well? If so, any legislation or documentation that backs that up?

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## XylathaneGTR

> Yes, although me knowing the specific deficiency isn't helpful (or hasn't been), since my case was immediately closed.
> 
> This is what I was looking for thanks. Does the new home warranty cover failures to do not meeting building code as well? If so, any legislation or documentation that backs that up?



This is an opinion only as i'm not certain of the legislation - my take would be the building and its components has to meet code (or the version of code which was in place at the time it was constructed). If you can demonstrate that the issue doesn't meet code and its within the warranty period, you should have a case for coverage. In my situation, I found a few clauses in the NBC which stated "item shall provide X" and provided a date-stamped photograph of the item clearly not providing X. Like I said, had to escalate this up a few times before it received appropriate consideration.

It's also worth checking your issue against the AB Construction Performance Guide: These outline minimum performance for typical issues and set determinations for what is, or is not, warrantable. You can find these on Progressive's site under homeowner resources, too. http://www.municipalaffairs.alberta....ance_Guide.pdf

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## ThePenIsMightier

If you have frost on your baseboards, the amount of ice that's behind your walls is going to violently fuck your dad when it melts. I assume this is in your basement?
You should start preparing for that, now.

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## gwill

> Yes, although me knowing the specific deficiency isn't helpful (or hasn't been), since my case was immediately closed.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I was looking for thanks. Does the new home warranty cover failures to do not meeting building code as well? If so, any legislation or documentation that backs that up?




Whats the definition of your deficiency and does it fit what your trying to get them to fix? Before you do anything it's to understand this one specific clause for your issue.

If its clearly defined and their ignoring you give them a demand letter(progressive and the builder). Let them know a contractor will be fixing it at which point your small claims action will Commence.

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## HuMz

> If you have frost on your baseboards, the amount of ice that's behind your walls is going to violently fuck your dad when it melts. I assume this is in your basement?
> You should start preparing for that, now.



Yes, it only happens during extreme cold all on NW corner of house. Most of the effected baseboards were in (main + 2nd story cantilever) closets so I leave the door open, but the frost on the drywall is right at the corner of main floor ceiling corner. It only a small 2" round section, but I leave a fan running right at it.

In the couple very cold spots on 2nd floor, cold air is coming from the bottom plate. Vapor barrier isn't secured at the floor junction, and bottom plate was caulked using cheap caulk (not acousti seal) that cracked.

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> Whats the definition of your deficiency and does it fit what your trying to get them to fix? Before you do anything it's to understand this one specific clause for your issue.
> 
> If its clearly defined and their ignoring you give them a demand letter(progressive and the builder). Let them know a contractor will be fixing it at which point your small claims action will Commence.



At the most basic level it is a building envelope failure not performing acceptable function. Cold air is coming directly into the house due to improper air sealing and vapor barrier not continuous.

This would also fall under the "cold walls" section in the performance guide.

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## XylathaneGTR

In my opinion, Progressive, especially in the initial steps - will take the simplest path to dismissal. I would bet they saw "frost on interior" and interpreted "interior humidity issue, fault of homeowner" and stamped it closed. Provide your backup and keep escalating, and eventually it will make it to someone with a brain.

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## gwill

> Yes, it only happens during extreme cold all on NW corner of house. Most of the effected baseboards were in (main + 2nd story cantilever) closets so I leave the door open, but the frost on the drywall is right at the corner of main floor ceiling corner. It only a small 2" round section, but I leave a fan running right at it.
> 
> In the couple very cold spots on 2nd floor, cold air is coming from the bottom plate. Vapor barrier isn't secured at the floor junction, and bottom plate was caulked using cheap caulk (not acousti seal) that cracked.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> At the most basic level it is a building envelope failure not performing acceptable function. Cold air is coming directly into the house due to improper air sealing and vapor barrier not continuous.
> ...



your not doing yourself any favors in this issue. I don't doubt there's a problem but where your at you need to clearly understand the deficiency and what the exact wording is through progressive.

For example you Said cheap caulking was used. This is not a deficiency. Other examples that commonly come up would be a Crack in the concrete. The warranty companies have exact definitions on when it becomes a deficiency vs what a home owner thinks or wants.

Did you or progressive open up walls to determine the envelope failure or was this a general guess based off your issues?

It's too bad all the warranty companies suck this badly.

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## HuMz

> In my opinion, Progressive, especially in the initial steps - will take the simplest path to dismissal. I would bet they saw "frost on interior" and interpreted "interior humidity issue, fault of homeowner" and stamped it closed. Provide your backup and keep escalating, and eventually it will make it to someone with a brain.



Yeah it was similar. They generally referenced the attic rain condition and stated that ice melted from the attic and then saw water from the melting on ceiling when the temperature warmed up due to high humidity.

Obviously, that's all irrelevant given a) nothing to do with attic and dealt with main floor + floor level of 2nd level b) it was ice on interior surfaces during extreme cold, not water stains after a warming and c) humidity levels were low (under 20%) at the time.

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## HuMz

> your not doing yourself any favors in this issue. I don't doubt there's a problem but where your at you need to clearly understand the deficiency and what the exact wording is through progressive.
> 
> For example you Said cheap caulking was used. This is not a deficiency. Other examples that commonly come up would be a Crack in the concrete. The warranty companies have exact definitions on when it becomes a deficiency vs what a home owner thinks or wants.
> 
> Did you or progressive open up walls to determine the envelope failure or was this a general guess based off your issues?
> 
> It's too bad all the warranty companies suck this badly.



I said cheap caulk was used as part of a general response to ThePenIsMighter as to what the problem was. That isn't what I would say to Progressive and I am aware that isn't a defect. And when you asked me the specific defects, I pointed out it was both the building envelope and the cold spots in walls section of the performance guide.

The building envelope is generally defined in the performance guide and the cold spot in walls section states that acceptable condition is based on the building code, which deals with properly sealing and insulating the conditioned spaces from exterior/unconditioned.

Progressive never came out, only builder and they did not open any walls but said they would send someone out in the next week or two. They never came, then Progressive to my surprise immediately closed it. I did an IR scan and the spot where the frost was on drywall was roughly -8 degrees C, all other interior corners were around 10 degrees C. Problematic areas of baseboards were similar below 0, so I lifted the carpet on the one wall where drastic air leakage was observed and it IR scanned at ( -13 degrees C) where draft was felt and it could be visually seen that the vapor barrier wasn't secured to the bottom plate/subfloor joint, then taking a picture of joint under the baseboard revealed no acousti seal (to secure and seal vapor barrier) only some cheap caulking that had cracked.

And with the carpet pulled back a few feet from the wall, you could see they incorrectly cut out the subfloor for a heat register and could see right into the joist cavity. It was spray foamed, with a large hole in the foam (IR scan showed the void in the foam down below 0).

So there are a variety of causes here leading to the defect of "cold spots in walls", all related to improper air/vapor sealing and insulation.

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