# Car Forums > General Car/Bike Talk >  Am I crazy or is this the worst time ever to buy a vehicle?

## Shlade

Has anybody else noticed this? I have never seen vehicle prices this inflated before. You're in a good position if you're selling, but my god you're right fucked if you're buying. Thanks to COVID and plant shut downs/chip shortages, dealers are left with dick all. 

I absolutely regret selling my 19' Raptor. I had originally placed an order for a Bronco (not a reservation order) and was recently told that due to chip issues and just overall quality control shit with the Bronco, that I likely would not see this thing until next year. So I cancelled.

Now here I am trying to make either an incredibly foolish purchase by getting either a very fun summer car (C6 Z06, GT500, Boss 302... etc etc.)
OR buying something both fun and sensible for year round vehicle.

I debated an SRT8 jeep as its the best of both worlds... But I cant even fucking find one of those. Dealership stock is minimal... Used market is borderline crayon eating...

First world problems. 

/RANT

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## Team_Mclaren

yup, Its worse in the states because of new car shortage. There are stories of people trading in their 2 year old cars and got more than their original purchase price. Most trucks are selling for over MSRP.

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## Shlade

> yup, Its worse in the states because of new car shortage. There are stories of people trading in their 2 year old cars and got more than their original purchase price. Most trucks are selling for over MSRP.



My brother just sold his 18' F150 Special Edition XLT for 48k! He bought it a year and a half ago for 38. Dealers were actually fighting over it when he posted it... Its insane right now for the used truck market. If I held on I probably would of gotten more money for my Raptor right about now.

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## Team_Mclaren

Raptor is fucking crazy right now as well. I think I can sell mine for close to what I paid for new.

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## Shlade

> Raptor is fucking crazy right now as well. I think I can sell mine for close to what I paid for new.



Without a doubt. And id be willing to bet an exporter jumps on that fast and ships it state side...

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## Masked Bandit

It's goddamn ridiculous right now. Anyone that is just straight up buying a newer car without a trade or private resale of your old guy is going to pay through the nose.

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## Tik-Tok

Are Mercedes exportable to the US?

Edit: Im guessing not, judging by the amount of used inventory on the local dealership websites.

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## JohnnyHockey13

Nissan Jukes are exempt from this so called crazy used car market, ask me how I know.

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## eglove

Buy an RS!

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## C4S

And with new and higher tax on luxury/expensive super cars ... no surprise

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## ExtraSlow

@Shlade
 we've been discussing this here, and it's been all over the internet, for months. Where ya been bro?

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## Shlade

> @Shlade
>  we've been discussing this here, and it's been all over the internet, for months. Where ya been bro?



The bitching in the f150 chat doesn't count hahaha

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## Buster

I'm not buying shit for a year.

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## ExtraSlow

> The bitching in the f150 chat doesn't count hahaha



You take. That back.

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## killramos

> I'm not buying shit for a year.



That’s what I said.

Then again I’ve never bought a car I planned on buying.

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## Twin_Cam_Turbo

The market has been whack since early March. Trucks especially. I am shopping for a few “dream” cars right now and there’s either nothing or people are out of their mind on price.

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## suntan

My Fiesta is still for sale.

Sold my truck for $500 less than what I bought it for though.

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## 03ozwhip

I sold my civic for 1500 more than I paid for it like 3 or 4 months ago. I'm seeing a ton of Lightnings in the US selling on average 18k USD, which is way more than I got mine for, but barely any are fir sale in Canada.

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## killramos

Maybe I should sell my M2 lol

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## ExtraSlow

Sell everything, ride a bike like Buster

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## suntan

> Sell everything, ride a bike like Buster



That's what I'm trying to do lol.

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## ExtraSlow

Peavy mart has some sick bikes.

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## littledan

Bought a truck end of 2017 for 5600. Sold at beginning of 2021 for 7000.

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## spikerS

I am REALLY contemplating selling my truck. like I am SUPER close, but, also hesitant. With the market, I was thinking i can just pick up some beater to carry me over, but I dont know if i want the hassle of an unknown ride at this point, and I am not sure when pricing is going to come back in line.

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## G-ZUS

> I am REALLY contemplating selling my truck. like I am SUPER close, but, also hesitant. With the market, I was thinking i can just pick up some beater to carry me over, but I dont know if i want the hassle of an unknown ride at this point, and I am not sure when pricing is going to come back in line.



Even beaters are going for big $$$

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## JohnnyHockey13

> My Fiesta is still for sale.
> 
> Sold my truck for $500 less than what I bought it for though.



Fiesta ST??

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## redline

> Nissan Jukes are exempt from this so called crazy used car market, ask me how I know.



So are Ford edges  epic waste of money

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## ExtraSlow

All this talk has had me cruising Kijiji looking at beaters, and there's a lot of cars I'd like under 10k, so whatever. Maybe I should sell my truck after I sell my trailer? Hilarious.

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## Tik-Tok

> All this talk has had me cruising Kijiji looking at beaters, and there's a lot of cars I'd like under 10k, so whatever. Maybe I should sell my truck after I sell my trailer? Hilarious.



Id list my truck tomorrow if I didn't have the trailer.

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## shakalaka

Wow that's insane... was just thinking about it today and thought about getting rid of the ZR2 for a Raptor finally now that an investment opportunity I wanted came through, but sounds like that would be a stupid decision right now. I guess I will have to wait for the time being and see how things go in the coming months....

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## ExtraSlow

Selling now is smart. Buying now is dumb. If you can separate those two transactions by 8-16 months, you will come out ahead.

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## Pauly Boy

> Nissan Jukes are exempt from this so called crazy used car market, ask me how I know.



Haha, yup and Acura sedans, lol.

I legit thought about putting my name on the list for a Type-S after we flipped the wife's Rav4 for $2300 "profit" but it seems my car is worth exactly what I owe, lol.

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## SKR

As you can see I think the used truck market is quite fair.

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## Shlade

Jesus Christ 55k USD for that.... Then again you look online and ford escapes are selling for 46k new.... Not explorers... Escapes....

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## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> As you can see I think the used truck market is quite fair.



Lol this isn’t even exportable.

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## killramos

> Selling now is smart. Buying now is dumb. If you can separate those two transactions by 8-16 months, you might come out ahead.



FTFY

That being said, selling something is near universally a good idea, buying something is near universally a bad idea.

Just stop thinking of your possessions as assets and you will be happier.

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## SKR

> Lol this isn’t even exportable.



Just because it's probably not emissions compliant, or some other reason?

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## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Just because it's probably not emissions compliant, or some other reason?



Mexican made and emissions too depending on which state it was going to.

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## vengie

I was bitching about this in another thread. 

As someone who will need to buy a 1/2 ton within the next year it's terrible. 

I might end up with a 1ton in the short term as prices on those are still relatively reasonable ($40-50k for a 2015/16 platinum with <150k km)

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## Buster

> I was bitching about this in another thread. 
> 
> As someone who will need to buy a 1/2 ton within the next year it's terrible. 
> 
> I might end up with a 1ton in the short term as prices on those are still relatively reasonable ($40-50k for a 2015/16 platinum with <150k km)



this weird supply/demand dislocation will not last very long.

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## Shlade

> this weird supply/demand dislocation will not last very long.



Considering there's literally thousands upon thousands of vehicles sitting at manufacturer lots right now just waiting for Chips... Once those come through things will start hopefully going back to normal. 

If you look, usually new year vehicles come out end of third quarter every year. We're starting to just see 2021 production model vehicles coming out this year. The timelines are so incredibly screwed up.

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## Tik-Tok

Fucking Bill Gates hogging all those 5G chips for our vaccines!

I hope there's a mass surplus of new vehicles next year when my lease is up..

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## Toms-SC

> I had originally placed an order for a Bronco (not a reservation order) and was recently told that due to chip issues and just overall quality control shit with the Bronco, that I likely would not see this thing until next year. So I cancelled.
> /RANT



How far did Ford bump your order out? My Mach 1 build (not E) was bumped out by a week due to the chip shortage.

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## suntan

> Fiesta ST??



Nope, just an SEL.

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## Shlade

> How far did Ford bump your order out? My Mach 1 build (not E) was bumped out by a week due to the chip shortage.



The dealer told me I likely wouldn't see my build until the end of the year, if not Into next year pushing it from a 21' to a 22' build date. I cancelled all together. 

I actually saw a Mach1 yesterday at Marlborough ford. What a beefy looking car. Only thing missing was the recaro package seats. At least it'll be more reliable than the GT350 engines.

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## tirebob

Hmmmm... So my 2017 F150 XLT Sport Supercab with 142k has gotta be worth at least 35K yeah?  :ROFL!:

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## ExtraSlow

> Hmmmm... So my 2017 F150 XLT Sport Supercab with 142k has gotta be worth at least 35K yeah?



Or more!

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## jutes

> The dealer told me I likely wouldn't see my build until the end of the year, if not Into next year pushing it from a 21' to a 22' build date. I cancelled all together. 
> 
> I actually saw a Mach1 yesterday at Marlborough ford. What a beefy looking car. Only thing missing was the recaro package seats. At least it'll be more reliable than the GT350 engines.



Camaro SS 1LE is the car you are looking for. 2017+

Good set of winters and its totally winter drivable.

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## Shlade

> Camaro SS 1LE is the car you are looking for. 2017+
> 
> Good set of winters and it’s totally winter drivable.



No ZL1 No care

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## jutes

> No ZL1 No care



Even better.

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## Darkane

> Camaro SS 1LE is the car you are looking for. 2017+
> 
> Good set of winters and it’s totally winter drivable.



Still can’t see out of the bloody thing lol. When I went to check them out for real, the interior killed it for me. Ded. 

With the window down and arm on the sill, it felt like I was reaching up to the top cupboard - and I’m tall. A normal 5’10” person couldn’t even cruise with their arm on the sill. 

Stupid little things like that killed the car.

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## Buster

> Still can’t see out of the bloody thing lol. When I went to check them out for real, the interior killed it for me. Ded. 
> 
> With the window down and arm on the sill, it felt like I was reaching up to the top cupboard - and I’m tall. A normal 5’10” person couldn’t even cruise with their arm on the sill. 
> 
> Stupid little things like that killed the car.



People cruise around with their arm out the window?

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## killramos

> People cruise around with their arm out the window?



The kind of people who buy new Camaro’s do

Actually. I think that applies to most generations of Camaro

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## dirtsniffer

speaking generally...

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## killramos

I assume pointing out mustang owners do something doesn’t constitute a defensive argument right?  :ROFL!:

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## 2Legit2Quit

> Still cant see out of the bloody thing lol. When I went to check them out for real, the interior killed it for me. Ded. 
> 
> With the window down and arm on the sill, it felt like I was reaching up to the top cupboard - and Im tall. A normal 510 person couldnt even cruise with their arm on the sill. 
> 
> Stupid little things like that killed the car.



That's why you buy the 2SS package and rely on the traffic sensors to compensate for the visibility  :ROFL!:

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## suntan

> Hmmmm... So my 2017 F150 XLT Sport Supercab with 142k has gotta be worth at least 35K yeah?



Probably more.

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## rx7boi

Bummer. We were planning on buying a RAV4 in the next month or so.

The only thing I noticed is that used vehicles are selling for a negligible amount over new ones, but when it comes to dealership prices, what else is new?

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## Ukyo8

> Has anybody else noticed this? I have never seen vehicle prices this inflated before. You're in a good position if you're selling, but my god you're right fucked if you're buying. Thanks to COVID and plant shut downs/chip shortages, dealers are left with dick all. 
> 
> I absolutely regret selling my 19' Raptor. I had originally placed an order for a Bronco (not a reservation order) and was recently told that due to chip issues and just overall quality control shit with the Bronco, that I likely would not see this thing until next year. So I cancelled.
> 
> Now here I am trying to make either an incredibly foolish purchase by getting either a very fun summer car (C6 Z06, GT500, Boss 302... etc etc.)
> OR buying something both fun and sensible for year round vehicle.
> 
> I debated an SRT8 jeep as its the best of both worlds... But I cant even fucking find one of those. Dealership stock is minimal... Used market is borderline crayon eating...
> 
> ...



I just had a client of mine trade in his 2020 Sierra 1500 AT4 with 45,000 kms (realtor, drives a lot) for a brand new fully loaded 2021 AT4 and he paid $1,100 out of pocket for the whole transaction.

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## Darkane

> People cruise around with their arm out the window?



Oh yeah. And you do too, you Gen X’er!! 

Nothing is hotter than cruising around in an Iroc with the T-tops off.

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## dirtsniffer

Maybe a trans am?

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## tcon

So manufacturers aren't increasing prices, it's just lack of stock? I'd like to sell my truck or trade it in for a new model with a nice fresh warranty, looks like I can get really close to what I paid, just a matter of timing it right

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## ExtraSlow

Check availibility of the new vehicle before you get rid of the old one, or you'll be walking . . .

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## Pauly Boy

> Still can’t see out of the bloody thing lol. When I went to check them out for real, the interior killed it for me. Ded. 
> 
> With the window down and arm on the sill, it felt like I was reaching up to the top cupboard - and I’m tall. A normal 5’10” person couldn’t even cruise with their arm on the sill. 
> 
> Stupid little things like that killed the car.



So much this. The entire bloody thing is a blind spot, lol.

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## Toms-SC

> The dealer told me I likely wouldn't see my build until the end of the year, if not Into next year pushing it from a 21' to a 22' build date. I cancelled all together. 
> 
> I actually saw a Mach1 yesterday at Marlborough ford. What a beefy looking car. Only thing missing was the recaro package seats. At least it'll be more reliable than the GT350 engines.



Welp, the factory order was just bumped out by an additional two weeks. 

Alberta has a handfull of Mach 1s on-lot. It could be a summer fling for ya?

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## M.alex

> The dealer told me I likely wouldn't see my build until the end of the year, if not Into next year pushing it from a 21' to a 22' build date. I cancelled all together. 
> 
> I actually saw a Mach1 yesterday at Marlborough ford. What a beefy looking car. Only thing missing was the recaro package seats. At least it'll be more reliable than the GT350 engines.



You want to buy my 04 cobra ... it's only got 300k kms on it? $60k.

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## shakalaka

Is this crazy market crazy for everything or just pickups specifically? I put my ZR2 on Kijiji for fun to see if someone wanted to do a lease takeover and people are offering to buy it outright for prices over my owing amount on the ZR2 right now. This is quite tempting...though I just don't know what I would replace it with.

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## killramos

Debt is almost free right now and the government has been throwing cash money at people.

People are hoarding everything.

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## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Is this crazy market crazy for everything or just pickups specifically? I put my ZR2 on Kijiji for fun to see if someone wanted to do a lease takeover and people are offering to buy it outright for prices over my owing amount on the ZR2 right now. This is quite tempting...though I just don't know what I would replace it with.



Oh that was you.

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## shakalaka

^Were you one of the messages? I've literally gotten 9 responses since last night, including offers of outright purchase for more than what I owe. It's insane.

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## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> ^Were you one of the messages? I've literally gotten 9 responses since last night, including offers of outright purchase for more than what I owe. It's insane.



No but I want to buy a ZR2 for myself, I saw your ad go up.

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## ExtraSlow

How are you so shocked to not be upside down?

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## killramos

> How are you so shocked to not be upside down?



I thought he always makes money flipping cars?

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## shakalaka

.

- - - Updated - - -




> How are you so shocked to not be upside down?






> I thought he always makes money flipping cars?




Why don't you guys just rep each other and not worry about what my moolah?

I don't think it should be too surprising to think that someone might find it odd that they can make money on a vehicle after keeping it for 8 months and driving 13K km's.

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## killramos

Don’t worry. None of us find it odd.

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## suntan

Sold my Fiesta. That was way faster than what I was expecting.

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## Shlade

Well I managed to find something I've been looking for. The dealership didn't want to sell it to me originally... Dealer manager wanted it as his demo model and they aren't scheduled to get anymore until June sometime. After a little bit of patience they did the right thing. 

Time to give it the full off-road treatment.

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## mrsingh

> Well I managed to find something I've been looking for. The dealership didn't want to sell it to me originally... Dealer manager wanted it as his demo model and they aren't scheduled to get anymore until June sometime. After a little bit of patience they did the right thing. 
> 
> Time to give it the full off-road treatment.



Really love these 4Runner's, great choice!

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## shakalaka

> Well I managed to find something I've been looking for. The dealership didn't want to sell it to me originally... Dealer manager wanted it as his demo model and they aren't scheduled to get anymore until June sometime. After a little bit of patience they did the right thing. 
> 
> Time to give it the full off-road treatment.



Awesome! I love 4Runners and I see that you couldn't wait for the Bronco either. lol.

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## Team_Mclaren

jesus, to go from a Raptor to a 4runner? whyyyyy

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## R-Audi

> Well I managed to find something I've been looking for. The dealership didn't want to sell it to me originally... Dealer manager wanted it as his demo model and they aren't scheduled to get anymore until June sometime. After a little bit of patience they did the right thing. 
> 
> Time to give it the full off-road treatment. 
> 
> Attachment 99427



Nice!

Unless you plan on plugging it in, you can unscrew that block heater plug receptacle from the back and pull it through so you cant see it.

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## Shlade

> jesus, to go from a Raptor to a 4runner? whyyyyy



Believe it or not, the 4runner feels better than the raptor. The raptor had great suspension but I plan on ensuring the 4runner does shortly here too. SUV is far more practical for me.

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## 2Legit2Quit

Anyone want to buy my Camaro? been pondering about selling or trading it in, haven't even taken it out of storage and prob won't until June some time....slight regret buying it last year lol

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## s dime

> Anyone want to buy my Camaro? been pondering about selling or trading it in, haven't even taken it out of storage and prob won't until June some time....slight regret buying it last year lol



Details please

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## 2Legit2Quit

> Details please



2019 2SS only has 3300 KMs on it. NPP exhaust, sunroof, black interior, all the 2SS package goodies.
Added the GM cold air intake which is supported by warranty, front splitter, tinted the windows, gyeon ceramic coating all around, PPF on the front end/full hood cover.
Extended warranty as well.

Basically brand new and barely driven. I'm full work from home pre-covid times and with my summer camping plans I'm at the point of wondering when I'll even drive this thing this summer, I pretty much have to make excuses to drive as is.

Pic from last year, it's presently in my garage still under the car cover.

Have been mulling putting it up for sale or trading it in for something larger than our CRV and get rid of the Honda.

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## rage2

> jesus, to go from a Raptor to a 4runner? whyyyyy



So he doesnt have to fold in his mirror.

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## killramos

Considering where the market is I don’t see the harm I’m throwing a feeler to the wind to see what kind of numbers you get.

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## ExtraSlow

Is right now a good time to sell a Wrangler? Asking for a friend.

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## shakalaka

:ROFL!: 

That Camaro looks sick btw, I suggest throwing up as strange things are happening in the market right now so you never know. I need more garage space, triple isn't cutting it anymore.

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## jutes

> That Camaro looks sick btw, I suggest throwing up as strange things are happening in the market right now so you never know. I need more garage space, triple isn't cutting it anymore.



I’m considering throwing my 17 1LE on Kijiji but not at $50k+ crazy prices. Love the car but not driving it enough.

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## Tik-Tok

> Sold my Fiesta. That was way faster than what I was expecting.



Another case supporting my statement of a 'hot' market.

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## Buster

> Another case supporting my statement of a 'hot' market.



Repped

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## adam c

> Another case supporting my statement of a 'hot' market.



Now I'm going to read all these posts with Bob's voice, it's also why I can't watch Archer

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## Kobe

Wow I had no idea about the car market, interesting..

Dad has a 2012 Escalade EXT he was planning on selling in the near future, might tell him to just list it now for a higher amount and see if anyone takes it since it's looks super clean.

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## ThePenIsMightier

Where did the thread go that mentioned an auction where prices were higher than normal?

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## arcticcat522

> Where did the thread go that mentioned an auction where prices were higher than normal?



It was one of 
@JohnnyHockey13
 threads. Adesa auction was the place. I didn't look to see if I can find it.

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## black300

I sold m 17 F150 Lariat as well, got paid top dollar. I am going to wait it out until prices line up and purchase something. I won't be needing a truck anytime soon, might go 1 Ton Diesel for the sake of towing. I did order a Bronco was on reservation, a lot of options advertised are not available soon according to the manager. If it looks nice I will keep it, if not then I will let someone else purchase it. Last timeline I got was around November-December.

For the summer I picked up a C6 Z06  :Love:

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## Buster

Things might be turning a bit.

My autotrader searches did this:

- two years of inventory sitting
- January 2021 - autotrader searches emptied and everything sold
- April 2021 - dealers start advertising (consignment?) vehicles and inventory plumps
- Mid-May 2021 - consistent emails from autotrader advertising price drops.

Demand shock took out inventory, and we're going to see oscillations.

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## Rocket1k78

> Another case supporting my statement of a 'hot' market.



My brothers cousins sisters bf aunt also sold her car in a day so theres more proof to support your case

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## killramos

> My brothers cousins sisters bf aunt also sold her car in a day so theres more proof to support your case



Not enough wall of text

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## Rocket1k78

> Not enough wall of text



Get out of your moms basement  :ROFL!:

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## killramos

> Get out of your moms basement



Way too cosy down here

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## Paul

Listed our RV on kijiji on Sunday morning - sold that evening, had about 20 requests for viewings.
We bought it in 2011 and sold for $750 more than we paid then. Not a bad ROI on a supposedly depreciating asset.

***this is NOT investment advice***

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## killramos

I wouldn’t get used to that concept

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## Paul

> I wouldn’t get used to that concept



Good call, I don’t need IIROC coming after me.

**Past performance is not indicative of future results

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## you&me

> Things might be turning a bit.
> 
> My autotrader searches did this:
> 
> - two years of inventory sitting
> - January 2021 - autotrader searches emptied and everything sold
> - April 2021 - dealers start advertising (consignment?) vehicles and inventory plumps
> - Mid-May 2021 - consistent emails from autotrader advertising price drops.
> 
> Demand shock took out inventory, and we're going to see oscillations.



This is happening a lot, particularly in the sports car segment where supply is still relatively small (compared to the truck market)... Higher and higher prices lead to increased supply as more people want to take advantage of the 'hot' market, causing a stall and retracement to a new baseline, which is admittedly higher than where things were 3, 6, 9+ months ago.

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## Buster

> This is happening a lot, particularly in the sports car segment where supply is still relatively small (compared to the truck market)... Higher and higher prices lead to increased supply as more people want to take advantage of the 'hot' market, causing a stall and retracement to a new baseline, which is admittedly higher than where things were 3, 6, 9+ months ago.



Yeah, I'm sitting on my wallet until next year

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## bjstare

> Yeah, I'm sitting on my wallet until next year



I thought you gave up on cars?

The oscillation is real.

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## BavarianBeast

It’s definitely a strange market. Which begs the question.. 

Aventador S or Huracan EVO?

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## Buster

> I thought you gave up on cars?
> 
> The oscillation is real.



I give up on cars when I'm annoyed or in a bad mood, and I'm back on a next year plan when I'm in a good mood.

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## ExtraSlow

Yes.

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## Disoblige

Someone wants to my '09 V8 4Runner for ~$22k lol...
I was kinda joking around so I said a higher price just to change topic and turns out he was serious lol.

Makes me wonder what I could actually get for it if I listed it properly...
Too bad because I am keeping this sucker for life.

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## BavarianBeast

Saw this 2018 Lamborghini Aventador on autoTRADER.ca's iPhone app 
http://www.autotrader.ca/go/5-51361011

2022 Evo would be delivered by Jan- potentially feb (incurring 10% tax). Leaning toward the v12 at this point, it’s not much more and is the natural progression from V8 —> V10 —> V12... 

I think the evo would hold value near term, but may not hold as well as the Aventador over 5+ years. Tough call.

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## Buster

Nice spec

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## zehnd

If your GM VIN starts with a "1" it was built in the good old USA. If it starts with a "2" or "3" not so good. Exporters are paying top dollar for the USA built trucks. Canadian and Mexico built ones are subject to a 20% duty.

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## you&me

> If your GM VIN starts with a "1" it was built in the good old USA. If it starts with a "2" or "3" not so good. Exporters are paying top dollar for the USA built trucks. Canadian and Mexico built ones are subject to a 20% duty.



Wha?

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## zehnd

> Wha?



Trump tax still in.

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## Tik-Tok

> Trump tax still in.



Did Trump go through with that? I thought it was all twitter talk

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## killramos

> Wha?



We are super duper good at free trade deals

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## zehnd

> Did Trump go through with that? I thought it was all twitter talk



It must be, that's what our buyers are telling us. They don't want to quote on anything other than "1". If they do it's considerably less.

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## killramos

I think I’ll list my 05 mustang for $20k lol

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## Tik-Tok

> It must be, that's what our buyers are telling us. They don't want to quote on anything other than "1". If they do it's considerably less.



I can't find any evidence of an actual tariff being implemented. I'm thinking it's more of a "easier to sell 'mericuhn made" thing.




> I think I’ll list my 05 mustang for $20k lol



I 'member having a hard time selling my '05 GT for $25g in 2008,  :ROFL!:

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## you&me

> I can't find any evidence of an actual tariff being implemented. I'm thinking it's more of a "easier to sell 'mericuhn made" thing.



That might be it, but I've never seen it. 

Now, if we're talking about a premium for trucks that were originally sold in the US (mph speedo, etc) vs Canadian-delivered (km/h, etc), then that is a thing but it's also based on actual costs like speedo conversions for the US importer... If zehnd is selling his Canadian-built trucks to US buyers for a 20% discount because they told him so, I have a bridge to sell him  :ROFL!: 

There is no duty or other tariff on Canadian-built vehicles going into the US.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

Actually there is a tariff on Canadian and Mexican made trucks built prior to 07/20 that were sold new in Canada originally if they are exported to the USA to be resold. That means 1, 4 and 5 VINs are safe and 2 and 3 VINs are not. Its literally just a fallback to the chicken tax from way back.

Doesnt take long to find a simple article on google: https://canadianautodealer.ca/2020/0...may-be-tricky/

----------


## mrsingh

> Saw this 2018 Lamborghini Aventador on autoTRADER.ca's iPhone app 
> http://www.autotrader.ca/go/5-51361011
> 
> 2022 Evo would be delivered by Jan- potentially feb (incurring 10% tax). Leaning toward the v12 at this point, its not much more and is the natural progression from V8 > V10 > V12... 
> 
> I think the evo would hold value near term, but may not hold as well as the Aventador over 5+ years. Tough call.



I have no other comment except, that colour is fire!  :thumbs up:   :I'd Hit it!:

----------


## you&me

> Actually there is a tariff on Canadian and Mexican made trucks built prior to 07/20 that were sold new in Canada originally if they are exported to the USA to be resold. That means 1, 4 and 5 VINs are safe and 2 and 3 VINs are not. Its literally just a fallback to the chicken tax from way back.
> 
> Doesnt take long to find a simple article on google: https://canadianautodealer.ca/2020/0...may-be-tricky/



I guess my pre-USMCA export experience is showing - thanks for the article. 

Apologies to zehnd...

----------


## rage2

Adding to this, manufacturers are cutting hard on features to still pump out vehicles during shortage. GM is removing fucking start stop. 

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/06...-2021-gm-suvs/

Tesla famously cut lumbar support in their seats without changing price. BMW cut seat massager and lumbar support but discounted the value. I have an order for a new car and am very damn close to cancelling. So far I’ve lost massage seats, arm and center console heaters, rear seat heaters, and today the dashcam feature. Price cut around 5k but god damn the cars getting butchered. Rumors is wireless charging is next, already been cut in lower models.

Might as well just keep my car at this point. Was hoping to beat the luxury tax.

----------


## TomcoPDR

> Adding to this, manufacturers are cutting hard on features to still pump out vehicles during shortage. GM is removing fucking start stop. 
> 
> https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/06...-2021-gm-suvs/
> 
> Tesla famously cut lumbar support in their seats without changing price. BMW cut seat massager and lumbar support but discounted the value. I have an order for a new car and am very damn close to cancelling. So far Ive lost massage seats, arm and center console heaters, rear seat heaters, and today the dashcam feature. Price cut around 5k but god damn the cars getting butchered. Rumors is wireless charging is next, already been cut in lower models.
> 
> Might as well just keep my car at this point. Was hoping to beat the luxury tax.



The bright side is, you save $5k, and still able to prove to haters it was fully loaded at time of production vs. being accused of cheaping out

----------


## Buster

> Adding to this, manufacturers are cutting hard on features to still pump out vehicles during shortage. GM is removing fucking start stop. 
> 
> https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/06...-2021-gm-suvs/
> 
> Tesla famously cut lumbar support in their seats without changing price. BMW cut seat massager and lumbar support but discounted the value. I have an order for a new car and am very damn close to cancelling. So far I’ve lost massage seats, arm and center console heaters, rear seat heaters, and today the dashcam feature. Price cut around 5k but god damn the cars getting butchered. Rumors is wireless charging is next, already been cut in lower models.
> 
> Might as well just keep my car at this point. Was hoping to beat the luxury tax.



Just more evidence to prove my theory that the new car market is hot.

----------


## killramos

> Just more evidence to prove my theory that the new car market is hot.

----------


## Maxx Mazda

> Adding to this, manufacturers are cutting hard on features to still pump out vehicles during shortage. GM is removing fucking start stop. 
> 
> https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/06...-2021-gm-suvs/
> 
> Tesla famously cut lumbar support in their seats without changing price. BMW cut seat massager and lumbar support but discounted the value. I have an order for a new car and am very damn close to cancelling. So far I’ve lost massage seats, arm and center console heaters, rear seat heaters, and today the dashcam feature. Price cut around 5k but god damn the cars getting butchered. Rumors is wireless charging is next, already been cut in lower models.
> 
> Might as well just keep my car at this point. Was hoping to beat the luxury tax.



They're removing a horrible feature and giving customers a $50 credit for it. Win in my books! Start stop sucks.

----------


## Buster

> They're removing a horrible feature and giving customers a $50 credit for it. Win in my books! Start stop sucks.



seriously. I'd PAY to have start/stop removed. fuck that EPA/CAFE manipulating bullsheeet.

----------


## rage2

> seriously. I'd PAY to have start/stop removed. fuck that EPA/CAFE manipulating bullsheeet.



I don't think it's manipulation, I mean it really does make a difference in fuel economy if you care about such a thing. The difference in fuel economy in rush hour traffic with and without start stop is massive.

You're right tho, classic start stop is terrible in execution.

----------


## Buster

I dont care about such a thing. C02 foreva

----------


## rage2

> I dont care about such a thing. C02 foreva



Still not manipulation haha.

----------


## beyond_ban

I am late to this thread, but i was just in Kelowna and met a friend who owns dealerships in Calgary, Leth and Lloyd. Let's just say he has been doing well, as he spends $2k/day in fuel for one of his boats. He mentioned usually he is carrying around $55m in inventory, but that has been reduced to $25m as he has been able to clear out a bunch of stale stock with the manufacturing shortages.

----------


## BavarianBeast

I was offered a trx today at MSRP. Should I take it?

----------


## 4WARNED

> i was offered a trx today at msrp. Should i take it?



yolo

----------


## killramos

> I was offered a trx today at MSRP. Should I take it?



Do you want it?

----------


## jutes

Stupid pointless trucks.

I’d love to own one.

----------


## BavarianBeast

> Do you want it?



I’ll probably get one at some point but I wouldn’t want to pay luxury tax on it. Not in a rush but thought it sounded like a good deal with what’s listed on auto trader. 

I was hoping to pick up a used one for $90ish but it doesn’t look like that will happen in the next couple of years.

----------


## killramos

Then why not. Life is short.

----------


## brucebanner

> I was offered a trx today at MSRP. Should I take it?



I mean, you were shopping for one earlier.

@90_Shelby
 would be proud if you got it :Big Grin:

----------


## Tik-Tok

My neighbor just sold his shitty old motorhome in less than a day of being on Kijiji.

Im starting to think the automobile AND camping markets are hot right now.

----------


## killramos

> My neighbor just sold his shitty old motorhome in less than a day of being on Kijiji.
> 
> Im starting to think the automobile AND camping markets are hot right now.



If you could get it to float you would have the trifecta

----------


## 90_Shelby

> I was offered a trx today at MSRP. Should I take it?



Do it! Just dont bail last minute and buy a Ridgeline.

I have a guy who wants to buy my wagon for 31% more then I paid 7 years ago, should I sell it?

----------


## brucebanner

What are you going to replace it with?

I'd say yes just because of the money you'll make after ownership for 7 years but the replacement part could be difficult.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> What are you going to replace it with?
> 
> I'd say yes just because of the money you'll make after ownership for 7 years but the replacement part could be difficult.




That’s the easy part, another Trackhawk, obviously.  :Angel: 
Isn’t that always the answer?

CT5-V 
911 Turbo S

Probably picking up a Golf R in the near future as well.

Maybe keep the wagon and get all of the above regardless?  :crazy nut:

----------


## arcticcat522

Now that would be a man on a car forum ^^^ do it.

----------


## Kloubek

So I'm not in the market for anything, but I do still check in on the prices of certain vehicles from time to time.

...and sure enough, almost all the prices seemed a good 10-15% higher than I would have expected - and I've seen vehicles that didn't sell months ago still on there but at even higher prices. 

So the vehicle market flipped along with the housing market. Throw in the whole Covid shitshow and these are crazy times indeed...

----------


## BavarianBeast

> Do it! Just don’t bail last minute and buy a Ridgeline.
> 
> I have a guy who wants to buy my wagon for 31% more then I paid 7 years ago, should I sell it?



You couldn’t pay me to drive a ridgeline, haha! Going to pass on the trx for now. My wife said the truck is for dirty humans, bikes and dead animals. She’s probably right and I’d probably hate driving it for what I’d use it for. If anyone wants one at MSRP shoot me a pm. Just pulled the trigger on something really special so that will be enough new cars for me this year. 

Is the wagon a manual? If it is manual I would hold on to it for a few more years if it’s not taking up space.

----------


## ExtraSlow

You want one, get one. Don't complicate your life beyond that.

----------


## Xtrema

> So the vehicle market flipped along with the housing market. Throw in the whole Covid shitshow and these are crazy times indeed...





Steel price tripled. Chip shortage. Dealer lot stock is low unless you are buying a sedan. This is the 1st June that I have not heard of any year end clearance deals.

----------


## Buster

> You couldnt pay me to drive a ridgeline, haha! Going to pass on the trx for now. My wife said the truck is for dirty humans, bikes and dead animals. Shes probably right and Id probably hate driving it for what Id use it for. If anyone wants one at MSRP shoot me a pm. Just pulled the trigger on something really special so that will be enough new cars for me this year. 
> 
> Is the wagon a manual? If it is manual I would hold on to it for a few more years if its not taking up space.



Can't wait to see the new toy.  :thumbs up: 

I was the same with a TRX. Too much of a pain for day to day

----------


## Darkane

I like these trucks. Too bad they suck at being trucks. 

MSRP is pretty fair for any truck due to supply right now, let alone a specialty one.

----------


## dirtsniffer

> Can't wait to see the new toy. 
> 
> I was the same with a TRX. Too much of a pain for day to day



went from mullet to mom jeans

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

Gettin _Spicy_!!!

----------


## Toms-SC

Ford gave up on trying to estimate my Mach 1 delivery. It used to read June 28th. Crazy times indeed. Talking with the folks over at Ford Performance, my car is scheduled to be made the week of July 5th. We'll see.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

I picked up a cheap FRS Friday so there’s still deals to be had. Beat two other friends to it, they are not happy.

----------


## 03ozwhip

So what about used diesel trucks? I'm not seeing alot on kijiji but wondering if the prices are out to lunch like the rest of the trucks.

----------


## killramos

Haven’t prices on used diesel trucks been insane for like 20 years?

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Haven’t prices on used diesel trucks been insane for like 20 years?



At least 10 anyway.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> So what about used diesel trucks? I'm not seeing alot on kijiji but wondering if the prices are out to lunch like the rest of the trucks.



Your best bet is to buy a Dodge, they cant be exported in most cases so likely easier to deal on. Lightly used diesels Ive seen selling for new MSRP sometimes more, its nuts.

----------


## 03ozwhip

> Your best bet is to buy a Dodge, they can’t be exported in most cases so likely easier to deal on. Lightly used diesels I’ve seen selling for new MSRP sometimes more, it’s nuts.



I thought so. I'm deciding whether i should get one or not. Don't think the prices are going anywhere but up any time soon, but im too poor to afford a new one.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> I thought so. I'm deciding whether i should get one or not. Don't think the prices are going anywhere but up any time soon, but im too poor to afford a new one.



I wouldn’t hedge my bets on prices getting better or staying the same if it’s a financial decision, I’m keeping very low inventory and risk right now.

----------


## killramos

Are you still doing this Twin Cam? For some reason I thought you had moved away from it in the last year.

I would have moved my truck through you if I had known.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Are you still doing this Twin Cam? For some reason I thought you had moved away from it in the last year.
> 
> I would have moved my truck through you if I had known.



I am back into it now, we took a bit of a break at the beginning of Covid with the uncertainty and again at the beginning of this year too. I saw your truck but I was too slow, was on the road that day.

----------


## killramos

Good to know! It’s nice to know a guy in the biz

----------


## 90_Shelby

Predictions on ‘18 & ‘19 Golf R pricing? I want to buy one with a stick, but prices seem to be hovering around MSRP for lower mileage ones. I’m hoping the prices will come down once the 2022’s hit the market but for now they seem to be holding close to $45k.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Predictions on ‘18 & ‘19 Golf R pricing? I want to buy one with a stick, but prices seem to be hovering around MSRP for lower mileage ones. I’m hoping the prices will come down once the 2022’s hit the market but for now they seem to be holding close to $45k.



Seems like they are just sitting around not selling at current prices.

----------


## npham

> I want to buy one with a stick



The clutch is undersized (from a GTI I think) and ends up slipping for the majority of people under normal driving. I had one and wished I went with the DSG instead. Or upgrade the clutch and Stage 3 that bitch.

----------


## heavyD

Unless you have to buy a car/truck I would wait until things start to normalize over the next year or two.

----------


## max_boost

What do you guys think of this? I'll self trigger if I buy an older 911 or NSX because it's basically doubled in price from when I sold lol so I might as well just buy newer. Plus I want to treat myself and make myself feel great again. 

https://www.camcoacura.com/used/vehi...id10819675.htm

----------


## killramos

Can’t take money with you when you are dead

----------


## you&me

> Unless you have to buy a car/truck I would wait until things start to normalize over the next year or two.



I'm thinking of doing the opposite - get while the gettin's good... 

Waiting to confirm 100%, but it looks like we're going to confirm a 2022 for December delivery and hope the market on the used stuff stays buoyant until then... With the numbers they're talking on her current truck and the MSRP on the new one, the cost of ownership over 2 years is so low it would be crazy not to update. Plus we'll skirt that stupid lux tax.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> The clutch is undersized (from a GTI I think) and ends up slipping for the majority of people under normal driving. I had one and wished I went with the DSG instead. Or upgrade the clutch and Stage 3 that bitch.



Did your clutch slip and the car was stock? I have read a bit about this but I really don’t want an auto for this type of car.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Did your clutch slip and the car was stock? I have read a bit about this but I really don’t want an auto for this type of car.



My parents car never slipped stock, they owned it for over 5 years. It’s tuned cars that are really susceptible to slipping as far as I saw, and lots of people put a TTRS clutch in I think.

----------


## theedge111

> Did your clutch slip and the car was stock? I have read a bit about this but I really don’t want an auto for this type of car.



Mine didn’t slip in the two years I owned one (stock)...it’s tuned cars where it’s an issue.

----------


## SkiBum5.0

Going to sound like an old man here, but I feel this has been an Audi/VW thing for over 20 years. They’ve always built the clutch to be the weak point to save the differentials/transmissions etc. cheaper to change the clutch than those parts.

----------


## Mitsu3000gt

> Going to sound like an old man here, but I feel this has been an Audi/VW thing for over 20 years. They’ve always built the clutch to be the weak point to save the differentials/transmissions etc. cheaper to change the clutch than those parts.



Not much of a data point, but my first S4 was modded to around 400 lb/ft of torque (over 50% increase from stock) and had over 130,000KM on the stock clutch at that power level and never slipped once. It would be very interesting to know how much of a buffer gets engineered into the clutches in various cars though. Probably less on cheaper/mass market cars like the GTI though.

----------


## roopi

> What do you guys think of this? I'll self trigger if I buy an older 911 or NSX because it's basically doubled in price from when I sold lol so I might as well just buy newer. Plus I want to treat myself and make myself feel great again. 
> 
> https://www.camcoacura.com/used/vehi...id10819675.htm



I have zero knowledge about the price/value here but awesome car. Buy that car.

----------


## Buster

4-5 year old hybrid? 

pass.

----------


## Pauly Boy

> I picked up a cheap FRS Friday so theres still deals to be had. Beat two other friends to it, they are not happy.



lol, the real cost comes trying to insure one of those, lol.

----------


## Pauly Boy

> 4-5 year old hybrid? 
> 
> pass.



eh, it's not like it's been driven. I'm also biased to the sexy NSX of any years though.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> lol, the real cost comes trying to insure one of those, lol.



It’s cheaper to insure than the car it’s replacing.

----------


## Pauly Boy

Interesting. I had heard the Toyobaru twins rates were ridiculous.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Interesting. I had heard the Toyobaru twins rates were ridiculous.



Maybe for young kids but I’m thirty now. It’s also a third car with minimal mileage.

----------


## redline

> So what about used diesel trucks? I'm not seeing alot on kijiji but wondering if the prices are out to lunch like the rest of the trucks.



i sold my companies 2500 GMC diesel for crazy money ... i would say they are worse then 1/2 tons

----------


## danno

> Not much of a data point, but my first S4 was modded to around 400 lb/ft of torque (over 50% increase from stock) and had over 130,000KM on the stock clutch at that power level and never slipped once. It would be very interesting to know how much of a buffer gets engineered into the clutches in various cars though. Probably less on cheaper/mass market cars like the GTI though.



Ive owned a 2007 gti for 126k km no clutch slippage 
2007 rs4 from 60k km to 126k km no clutch slippage
2016 golf r new to 44k km no clutch slippage, would have preferred to get the dsg either way
2007 rs4 104k km to 130k km no clutch slippage, still daily this one in the summer. 
Could be the drivers that wreck them, could be people like to complain. Im happy with every vw/Audi purchase so far. I heard if you go stage 1 on a 6spd golf r it will slip pretty quick, the dsg can handle the power better

----------


## 90_Shelby

I have no plans to mod the Golf R so I should be good. Not to mention, if I want to go fast, the VW won’t be my first choice from the garage.  :Angel:

----------


## arcticcat522

> i sold my companies 2500 GMC diesel for crazy money ... i would say they are worse then 1/2 tons



I just did too. 2015 and 2016 Denali HD. 110,000km for 62k each. Think they where 1 tons though. Think we could have got a bit more, but this process was just too easy to mess around with.

----------


## riander5

Car prices are whack. Maybe ill just have to buy a ridgeline like Buster and call it a day

----------


## Buster

> Car prices are whack. Maybe ill just have to buy a ridgeline like Buster and call it a day



Don't think any are in stock

----------


## vengie

> Car prices are whack. Maybe ill just have to buy a ridgeline like Buster and call it a day



Ridgeline prices are also insane.

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> What do you guys think of this? I'll self trigger if I buy an older 911 or NSX because it's basically doubled in price from when I sold lol so I might as well just buy newer. Plus I want to treat myself and make myself feel great again. 
> 
> https://www.camcoacura.com/used/vehi...id10819675.htm



You're late (as did I), it's CS.

----------


## 2Legit2Quit

I like the NSX but made me chuckle that the back up camera setup is the same as our old 2016 CRV

----------


## Team_Mclaren

If you can look pass the interior design and material, the drivetrain tech is on par with other sportscars. Hence the price

----------


## roopi

> Don't think any are in stock



Market isn't that crazy. They can still be found.

----------


## JohnnyHockey13

> What do you guys think of this? I'll self trigger if I buy an older 911 or NSX because it's basically doubled in price from when I sold lol so I might as well just buy newer. Plus I want to treat myself and make myself feel great again. 
> 
> https://www.camcoacura.com/used/vehi...id10819675.htm



Wow, where does time go? 2017??? I thought this car came out in 2020 LOL buy it, it's beautiful

----------


## Pauly Boy

> Car prices are whack. Maybe ill just have to buy a ridgeline like Buster and call it a day



Non-luxury sedans are semi reasonable, lol

Live that Malibu life son

----------


## adam c

The Malibu is actually a great rental car in the few times I’ve had one

----------


## max_boost

> You're late (as did I), it's CS.



Yea I'm just a tire kicker. I'll let you real ballers have fun lol the car market is more than I can afford these days.

----------


## riander5

> Non-luxury sedans are semi reasonable, lol
> 
> Live that Malibu life son



I just checked jack carter and capitol for fun... no inventory!!!!

Guess im back to my search. Someone find me a clean 2016 E63 for $55k ill buy it right now

----------


## ExtraSlow

What I'm learning is that this situation is really hard on people who swap cars all the time.
Ive been looking for an excuse not to buy my wife a new car so this is great for me!

----------


## bjstare

> What I'm learning is that this situation is really hard on people who swap cars all the time.



Preach. Thankfully I just swapped like 3mo ago so I'm good for a little while. Probably.


@riander5
 if a $55k s212 pops up we'll be fighting over it.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Although now I'm wondering if I should sell my truck if prices stay high. Drive a 1993 accord for the winter.

----------


## shakalaka

Things are deff. up there in pricing however gems can be found here and there still. Toronto's market has much more options with a little more competitive pricing. We are picking up a vehicle out there next week and even after factoring the shipping costs etc., it's going to be ultimately a better deal than what we could find in AB and BC.

----------


## killramos

> Although now I'm wondering if I should sell my truck if prices stay high. Drive a 1993 accord for the winter.



There is almost no downside

It’s not like they will stop baking hundreds of thousands of trucks a year. And I’d argue the long term damage of Covid hasn’t really revealed itself yet.

This shit is going to correct itself, correct hard.

----------


## shakalaka

If you're in no rush to replace your truck if you sell it, I say go for it. It is definitely the right time to maximize the return on that at the moment.

----------


## ExtraSlow

The risk is inflation, but clearly there's ways to hedge against that.

----------


## killramos

> The risk is inflation, but clearly there's ways to hedge against that.



Isn’t your lady a public servant? She must be guaranteed cost of living increases so you have a built in hedge.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Isn’t your lady a public servant? She must be guaranteed cost of living increases so you have a built in hedge.



She's not THAT kind of public servant. I don't think her union has annual raises at all. #boofuckinghoo

----------


## riander5

@cjblair
 they are out there, im just holding out for a 2016... Hoping next year or when this madness ends a 2016 with 50-70k can be had for mid fifites. Maybe be dreaming though

https://www.kijijiautos.ca/cars/merc.../#vip=20651028

----------


## bjstare

> @cjblair
>  they are out there, im just holding out for a 2016... Hoping next year or when this madness ends a 2016 with 50-70k can be had for mid fifites. Maybe be dreaming though
> 
> https://www.kijijiautos.ca/cars/merc.../#vip=20651028



I only want a wagon, maybe we won’t be fighting after all.

----------


## riander5

> I only want a wagon, maybe we won’t be fighting after all.



Oh yea, i can't wait until the end of time for a unicorn to come around. A sedan for me

----------


## 03ozwhip

Ya looking around all over Canada and it's crazy. I don't need the truck right now anyways, but I want it lol you all know how that goes.

But I'll try not to for a while.

----------


## SKR

I'd like to sell my truck, but I worry that 6 months from now I'll just be buying another one. This one I have now is an exact replica of one I had and sold a couple years ago.

I've been keeping a little bit of an eye out for 2014-15 ZL1s, but fuck, you can't touch one of those now. They're asking what used to be asking price for Z28s, and Z28s are up to where C6 ZR1s were. I wouldn't even want to guess what a ZR1 might be worth now.

One thing I'd like to know is why the market for Lumina Z34s is so competitive. They're almost never for sale, and soon as an ad goes up it's sold.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Z-car fanbois clearly dominate the market. Must be the FnF crowd.

----------


## Mitsu3000gt

IMO if you have a generic vehicle (like a truck or something) that you don't desperately need, it's not a bad idea to sell it now and take advantage of what will probably be the only time in our lives where many vehicles are either appreciating or at least not depreciating at a normal rate. If you have another vehicle or two and can make do, there is a lot of money to be saved.

----------


## BavarianBeast

Just realized 4 year old Porsche Boxster’s with 40,000km are selling for close to msrp. Crazy market out there!

----------


## Darkane

> I'd like to sell my truck, but I worry that 6 months from now I'll just be buying another one. This one I have now is an exact replica of one I had and sold a couple years ago.
> 
> I've been keeping a little bit of an eye out for 2014-15 ZL1s, but fuck, you can't touch one of those now. They're asking what used to be asking price for Z28s, and Z28s are up to where C6 ZR1s were. I wouldn't even want to guess what a ZR1 might be worth now.
> 
> One thing I'd like to know is why the market for Lumina Z34s is so competitive. They're almost never for sale, and soon as an ad goes up it's sold.



Z34? Good 3.4 twin dual cam that. 

Manual made good power and redlined at 7k. Impressive for a domestic 30 year old car. 

Source: old man had one.

----------


## SKR

I had a Z34 way back when. I liked it, as much as a person can like a front wheel drive V6.

----------


## dromz

Just sold my 2015 Ram Cummins after two days on the market, quite the experience with all the sleaze bags out there. We sold our trailer and want a half ton instead. was at Tower Chrysler a couple of days ago and couldn't believe they are still pulling illegal shit like adding on over $1,700 on top of listed price for doc fees etc for a used truck. I'll take my business to some place else

----------


## 03ozwhip

> Just sold my 2015 Ram Cummins after two days on the market, quite the experience with all the sleaze bags out there. We sold our trailer and want a half ton instead. was at Tower Chrysler a couple of days ago and couldn't believe they are still pulling illegal shit like adding on over $1,700 on top of listed price for doc fees etc for a used truck. I'll take my business to some place else



How much did you sell for, if you don't mind me asking 
@dromz
?

----------


## dromz

Sold it for $50,000, it was an SLT with only 62K

----------


## R-Audi

Trying to talk my Father into selling his 2011 C63 P31, it barely gets driven and still in excellent condition. (Mars Red, 8X,XXXkm, Carbon front lip and diffuser otherwise stock, ceramic coating last year)

Any idea at what the price should start out with? Not many listed locally...

----------


## Sentry

Anybody wanna go halfers on a seacan full of classic BMWs from Lebanon? Supposedly dirt cheap due to their economy, and then a couple thousand bucks to bring the can over.

----------


## 03ozwhip

> Anybody wanna go halfers on a seacan full of classic BMWs from Lebanon? Supposedly dirt cheap due to their economy, and then a couple thousand bucks to bring the can over.



Interesting. I'd like to know more info for sure.

----------


## Buster

> Anybody wanna go halfers on a seacan full of classic BMWs from Lebanon? Supposedly dirt cheap due to their economy, and then a couple thousand bucks to bring the can over.



sure

----------


## bjstare

I could be in for an e30 of some type.

Who's flying over there to shop for us?

----------


## vengie

> Anybody wanna go halfers on a seacan full of classic BMWs from Lebanon? Supposedly dirt cheap due to their economy, and then a couple thousand bucks to bring the can over.



You have my attention.

Also would want an E30

----------


## flipstah

> Anybody wanna go halfers on a seacan full of classic BMWs from Lebanon? Supposedly dirt cheap due to their economy, and then a couple thousand bucks to bring the can over.



You had me at 'seacan'

----------


## killramos

How many BMW’s fit in a Seacan?

Asking for SKR…

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Trying to talk my Father into selling his 2011 C63 P31, it barely gets driven and still in excellent condition. (Mars Red, 8X,XXXkm, Carbon front lip and diffuser otherwise stock, ceramic coating last year)
> 
> Any idea at what the price should start out with? Not many listed locally...



I’d say around $33k.

----------


## 16hypen3sp

Bailing on my search for a new quad for the wife. Used,... owners want way too much. New,.... most dealers have no inventory or all are sold. I noticed one dealer seems to be selling a few hundred over MSRP.

Painful. Been looking for a 570 XT or Kodiak/Grizzly 700.

----------


## Shlade

> Anybody wanna go halfers on a seacan full of classic BMWs from Lebanon? Supposedly dirt cheap due to their economy, and then a couple thousand bucks to bring the can over.



I'm intrigued.

----------


## Proyecto2000

> Interesting. I'd like to know more info for sure.



Same here let me know

----------


## SKR

> How many BMW’s fit in a Seacan?
> 
> Asking for SKR…



Depends on how thin you slice them.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Depends on how thin you slice them.



Looool.

----------


## riander5

In for middle east BMW

This one looks good - https://www.autotrader.com.lb/cars/b...ies-2-7-116887

----------


## SkiBum5.0

Definitely take the year off, look in winter. I need to replace our plow rig and it’s been a slog. Deals pop up but they are always in remote parts of AB or Sask where I can’t see how badly they are beat up

----------


## nismodrifter

A google search of "lebanon seacan bmw" yielded this as first result:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/europ...ers/index.html

----------


## ExtraSlow

They could have used nicer flooring.

----------


## Pauly Boy

Add me to the Middle East Bavarian group buy.

You can fit 4 in a 40 footer with 2 suspended above if you're good - How skilled are your Lebanese docker workers Sentry?

----------


## dirtsniffer

my wife would kill me if I bought an old bmw instead of AC hahahaa fuck

----------


## Buster

> How skilled are your Lebanese docker workers Sentry?



Questionable.

----------


## riander5

When my BMW shows up my only terms are someone else cranks the engine first before me

----------


## bjstare

> Questionable.



I must spread rep...

That gave me a lol.

----------


## flipstah

> When my BMW shows up my only terms are someone else cranks the engine first before me



Aren't those Albanian Mercedes that have those faulty ignition issues?

----------


## Pauly Boy

> That gave me a lol.



Indeed, rofl.

----------


## Tik-Tok

Finally, an honest advertisement from a dealership.

----------


## rage2

Mercedes axed all 2022 E63s and GT63s in the US. Not sure if Canada affected yet. People are fucking scrambling right now to find a car. 

Put myself right in the middle of this silly situation. The coupe sold 2 weeks ago. Have an allocation for September build with a bunch of options restricted, supposed to be Oct delivery. It’s a race against the Trudeau tax now.

----------


## Ekliptix

I'm planning to list my blue E53 (X5 IS). A few ppl are asking $15-$20k for low mile examples. I'd be happy with $15k for mine, BUT I have no idea what to buy as a replacement DD.
A low km Golf R is high on my list. Or a Canyon Denali Diesel, but that's not really fun.

----------


## T-Dubbs

> I'm planning to list my blue E53 (X5 IS). A few ppl are asking $15-$20k for low mile examples. I'd be happy with $15k for mine, BUT I have no idea what to buy as a replacement DD.
> A low km Golf R is high on my list. Or a Canyon Denali Diesel, but that's not really fun.




Are you looking to buy new?

Did you like the x5?

Why not a newer generation but Diesel?

I absolutely LOVE my e70 diesel x5.
Has great power once deleted (400hp/600tq) and 30MPG

Its pretty quick, and pretty fun

----------


## lilmira

There is gonna be some awkward delivery of 100K+ cars in Jan.

----------


## jutes

> Mercedes axed all 2022 E63s and GT63s in the US. Not sure if Canada affected yet. People are fucking scrambling right now to find a car.



First world problems. These people can’t be seen in something other than new AMGs for a few years.

----------


## rage2

> First world problems. These people can’t be seen in something other than new AMGs for a few years.



From what I’m seeing, it’s ppl upgrading to what could be the last of the v8s. Similar boat as me, sold or traded in cars in a hot market and now empty handed.

----------


## bjstare

> From what I’m seeing, it’s ppl upgrading to what could be the last of the v8s. Similar boat as me, sold or traded in cars in a hot market and now empty handed.



This is why I always buy my next car before selling the current one.

----------


## Ekliptix

> Are you looking to buy new?
> 
> Did you like the x5?
> 
> Why not a newer generation but Diesel?
> 
> I absolutely LOVE my e70 diesel x5.
> Has great power once deleted (400hp/600tq) and 30MPG
> 
> Its pretty quick, and pretty fun



I've put $12k into repairing/maintaining the X5 in 4 years, so I'm a little burnt on BMWs right now. It's really fun to drive, but it's been high maintenance for me. I'm sure a strung out Golf R will be much more reliable  :Wink: .

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> I'm planning to list my blue E53 (X5 IS). A few ppl are asking $15-$20k for low mile examples. I'd be happy with $15k for mine, BUT I have no idea what to buy as a replacement DD.
> A low km Golf R is high on my list. Or a Canyon Denali Diesel, but that's not really fun.



Diesel ZR2

----------


## 90_Shelby

> I've put $12k into repairing/maintaining the X5 in 4 years, so I'm a little burnt on BMWs right now. It's really fun to drive, but it's been high maintenance for me. I'm sure a strung out Golf R will be much more reliable .



I can’t speak on reliability, but our Golf R is buckets of fun. I think we’re liking it even more then anticipated, this might also be since it’s a manual.

----------


## Clever

> Mercedes axed all 2022 E63s and GT63s in the US. Not sure if Canada affected yet. People are fucking scrambling right now to find a car. 
> 
> Put myself right in the middle of this silly situation. The coupe sold 2 weeks ago. Have an allocation for September build with a bunch of options restricted, supposed to be Oct delivery. It’s a race against the Trudeau tax now.



Fucking Trudeau tax, my truck got hit with hail right before I was going to list to get into a 7 seater SUV. It’s currently at the shop being repaired, and will continue the search.

----------


## Sentry

> I can’t speak on reliability, but our Golf R is buckets of fun. I think we’re liking it even more then anticipated, this might also be since it’s a manual.



I didn't know those came manual too, I thought they were just DSG!

----------


## BavarianBeast

Is the Trudeau tax even going through? I decided to order another car that won’t be delivered until March/April.

----------


## killramos

Depends whether or not you think the conservatives are going to win the fall election

----------


## 90_Shelby

> I didn't know those came manual too, I thought they were just DSG!



You’re free to take it for a rip if you like!

----------


## heavyD

> Depends whether or not you think the conservatives are going to win the fall election



Win the election? It's not looking very good for CP as they will likely still be the opposition party but with less seats.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Win the election? It's not looking very good for CP as they may lose seats.



Quoted for extremely sad truth.

----------


## killramos

That was my point

----------


## heavyD

> Quoted for extremely sad truth.



A Liberal federal government propped up by the NDP is incredibly sad times.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> A Liberal federal government propped up by the NDP is incredibly sad times.



Gonna be a Liberal majority with the NDP as the official opposition, you fucking watch.

----------


## lilmira

If we are going to burn it down, let's make the biggest fire ever.

----------


## heavyD

> Gonna be a Liberal majority with the NDP as the official opposition, you fucking watch.



I’m totally prepared for that possibility. I may have to get serious about transferring to our Pittsburgh business unit as a Liberal majority and NDP opposition will be a crushing blow to this province.

----------


## ExtraSlow

the BEST fire.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> If we are going to burn it down, let's make the biggest fire ever.



Green majority with NDP opposition?

----------


## rage2

Shit just got real. Mercedes axes almost all cars with the 4L v8 in US. 

https://jalopnik.com/mercedes-benz-w...amg-1847484393

Won’t be surprised if Canada is next. They started with the e63s, Canada confirmed all cancelled, so expecting all cars aside from S, SL, and AMG GT with the v8 gone.

----------


## bjstare

> Shit just got real. Mercedes axes almost all cars with the 4L v8 in US. 
> 
> https://jalopnik.com/mercedes-benz-w...amg-1847484393
> 
> Won’t be surprised if Canada is next. They started with the e63s, Canada confirmed all cancelled, so expecting all cars aside from S, SL, and AMG GT with the v8 gone.



Came here to post this. What are current 63 owners going to do when their warranties run out this year? Hang on to the cars, reducing supply in the used market, or maybe pull a benyl and go EV?

----------


## rage2

> Came here to post this. What are current 63 owners going to do when their warranties run out this year? Hang on to the cars, reducing supply in the used market, or maybe pull a benyl and go EV?



People are buying 2021 e63s for 30k over msrp right now. They don’t even care if the colors or options match even though they’re bitching about the insane dealer color and interior choices. It’s insanity.

The non AMG folks are hooped too. Cars are losing the 12” widescreen, so they’re retrofitted with European base analog gauges that weren’t even made available here for the E. They’re losing the LTE module so cars don’t even have navigation. Have to sign a waiver to say they’re ok with it for a year before retrofitting. They lost keyless go so you have to plug in a key to drive lol. 

Somehow, coupes and cabs haven’t been affected. Yet. So my build is still ok. Honestly I’m expecting the hammer to fall on me and lose my allocation.

----------


## you&me

It seems like some knew this was coming, as prices on G63s and GLS Maybachs jumped over the last week... Surely just the tip of the iceberg.  :Shock:

----------


## Darkane

This is bad bad bad. 

Everyone’s gotta follow suit, no?

Time to snap up some Mustang GTs..

----------


## JustinL

Tesla model 3 Sr+ is done for the year too.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

Damn I was just getting to the point of maybe considering a early E63s and now I bet used prices are going to rocket.

----------


## rage2

> It seems like some knew this was coming, as prices on G63s and GLS Maybachs jumped over the last week... Surely just the tip of the iceberg.



And that’s on top of the huge msrp jump as well this year. This isn’t even a delay, it’s straight up cancellation for the whole model year.

----------


## rage2

> Damn I was just getting to the point of maybe considering a early E63s and now I bet used prices are going to rocket.



Older cars still fine. For now. This is all the ballers that swap cars frequently so only affecting new cars. For now.

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> Older cars still fine. For now. This is all the ballers like me that swap cars frequently so only affecting new cars. For now.




ftfy

----------


## rage2

Please, I can’t afford a 63 haha. Only fake AMGs here.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Still a bad time to buy vehicles. CNN article on why. 
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/19/busin...rge/index.html

----------


## rx7boi

No biggie. People will just continue to focus on monthly payments and extend their loans lol.

----------


## 2002civic

It's bad. We have spark plugs, roof rails, tranny fluid, brake rotors, air filters and everything in between on back order right now. Some new cars are coming with one key because of a shortage and the owner will get the second when production is better.

----------


## lilmira

yeah, apparently some 22 Audi cars will come with 1 key fob and spare key only until they are available. Phone box option is on short supply as well.

----------


## rx7boi

How are prospective clients handling this news? Have they been taking it in stride or do some of them act petulant and demand free shit because of this global issue?

I mean, I think I know the answer but it's fun to hear stories lol.

----------


## riander5

> Older cars still fine. For now. This is all the ballers that swap cars frequently so only affecting new cars. For now.



2015 / 2016 e63s seem expensive to me. How do i find out their prices before this year is the question.....

----------


## rage2

> How are prospective clients handling this news? Have they been taking it in stride or do some of them act petulant and demand free shit because of this global issue?
> 
> I mean, I think I know the answer but it's fun to hear stories lol.



AMG guys are either buying way over MSRP for 21s, or swearing off Mercedes completely. They’re in for a rude awakening if they think it’s any better anywhere else right now.

----------


## bjstare

> 2015 / 2016 e63s seem expensive to me. How do i find out their prices before this year is the question.....



Look up all the sales on bringatrailer to give you a trend line, adjust down to compensate for auction hype, adjust for currency/Canadian market based on current list prices of cars available on both sides of the border, that’ll get you some idea.

----------


## riander5

Appears non wagons arent rare enough to warrant listings on BaT, or I am just using the site wrong. Regardless, the wagon versions havent gone up in price, but they certainly havent dropped as they age either

----------


## 2002civic

nm

----------


## vengie

There is a vehicle at a dealership I wanted to pick up two weeks ago.
They wouldn't budge on price (~$200 off was their max) so I said I am good and here is my price.

Fast forward they have since contacted me twice to see if I've changed my mind, to which I have replied "Not unless you would take my price".

This latest time they essentially called me crazy and the vehicle is rare and sought after, blah blah blah and to stop wasting their time... Remember, they have been contacting and pestering me and its been sitting there for two weeks...

For reference, my price was $1800 off the all in of the price they wanted.

Even at the price I was willing to pay i'd say its SLIGHTLY overpriced, but can live with that.

----------


## rx7boi

Just mind games.

If you gave in, it's a win for them.

If you didn't give in, they're still not losing alot by holding out for a buyer since it's only been 2 weeks (plus however long it's been sitting on the lot)

What's the vehicle worth and is it brand new?

----------


## Xtrema

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58266794




> The world's biggest carmaker had planned to make almost 900,000 cars next month, but has now reduced that to 540,000 vehicles.

----------


## vengie

> Just mind games.
> 
> If you gave in, it's a win for them.
> 
> If you didn't give in, they're still not losing alot by holding out for a buyer since it's only been 2 weeks (plus however long it's been sitting on the lot)
> 
> What's the vehicle worth and is it brand new?



Used car ~$18k

Daily driver replacement.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

Dealers are not at all willing to play ball these days. I stopped looking and decided to be content with my garbage, but I would really like to pick up a 4Runner or Tacoma maybe this fall.

----------


## aypi

What pricing did you get for a new 4runner?

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> What pricing did you get for a new 4runner?



I’m shopping used not new.

----------


## killramos

> I’m shopping used not new.



So because it’s 2021… MSRP  :ROFL!:

----------


## Shlade

> I’m shopping used not new.



You may as well buy new with how high the used prices are... If you can even find one.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

I’m not even looking for a fifth gen, I’m looking for a really nice third gen lol. But if I can’t find anything I think I’m just going to buy my dream M5 next year if work picks back up.

----------


## redblack

I’ve been watching kijiji for a 4runner as well (3rd or 4th gen) been a few good deals that I’ve missed out and alot of overpriced stuff. Not looking good on finding one before winter. My two other buddies are also looking for a 4runner or Tacoma as well, lots of competition out there right now

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> I’ve been watching kijiji for a 4runner as well (3rd or 4th gen) been a few good deals that I’ve missed out and alot of overpriced stuff. Not looking good on finding one before winter. My two other buddies are also looking for a 4runner or Tacoma as well, lots of competition out there right now



Yep the prices are way higher than they used to be it seems like. Have also been looking at GX, LX, Land Cruisers etc too.

----------


## ianmcc

Picked up a 2015 Dodge Journey R/T for the MIL.
No movement at all on the price. Even a used Dodge at a non-FCA dealership. FML

----------


## riander5

> Picked up a 2015 Dodge Journey R/T for the MIL.
> No movement at all on the price. Even a used Dodge at a non-FCA dealership. FML



What did your MIL do to hurt you?

----------


## tcon

Ok, this might be anecdotal, but it almost seems like the so called demand for vehicles is being a bit overhyped? Or maybe now there are just more people trying to dump their vehicles for obscene prices?
My reasoning is this; I sold my Evo back in 2017 for a truck, and throughout the past years I would check Kijiji and window shop for a new one. The thing is, they used to be somewhat rare, at any given time there would only be a few listed in all of AB, and the prices were pretty modest.... Well I just checked Kijiji again and there are nearly 40 of them! Yet most listings are asking over 30k, and these aren't pristine either, they're 8-9 year old vehicles with six figure mileage. Clearly people aren't chomping at the bit to scoop these cars up...
Did we reach the peak? I think the great sell off might be just around the corner.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

Tons of people asking crazy money for vehicles, doesn’t mean they will get it. I saw a 2012 Ram 3500 dually with 159k listed for $65000 yesterday lol.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

I think quality used vehicles are still selling for artificially high prices, it's just that everyone else has started listing their broken Ford Tempos at the same time so they can cash in because they're so smart.
The average person got C's in High School.

----------


## ExtraSlow

The market is really hot right now.

----------


## bigboom

Things seem to be getting better, shopping for a new truck right now and there's dealers willing to negotiate on pricing now, a few months back I couldn't find a dealer willing to move off of MSRP.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Things seem to be getting better, shopping for a new truck right now and there's dealers willing to negotiate on pricing now, a few months back I couldn't find a dealer willing to move off of MSRP.



GM released half of their stacked trucks waiting to be finished to market, so that’s a good sign.

----------


## Brent.ff

> Things seem to be getting better, shopping for a new truck right now and there's dealers willing to negotiate on pricing now, a few months back I couldn't find a dealer willing to move off of MSRP.



must be in the half-ton market? The SD market is beyond fucked. They'll move like a grand or two. Used market is also fucked.

----------


## flipstah

For every 1 nice car listing, there are 8 shitty ones. 

I sifted through so many pages of $8k 4Runners with 450k km and 'clean, minor rust' but the rear panel is almost gone.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> For every 1 nice car listing, there are 8 shitty ones. 
> 
> I sifted through so many pages of $8k 4Runners with 450k km and 'clean, minor rust' but the rear panel is almost gone.



I ended up snapping mine up from a Facebook group. Gotta look everywhere.

----------


## tonytiger55

> Ok, this might be anecdotal, but it almost seems like the so called demand for vehicles is being a bit overhyped? Or maybe now there are just more people trying to dump their vehicles for obscene prices?
> My reasoning is this; I sold my Evo back in 2017 for a truck, and throughout the past years I would check Kijiji and window shop for a new one. The thing is, they used to be somewhat rare, at any given time there would only be a few listed in all of AB, and the prices were pretty modest.... Well I just checked Kijiji again and there are nearly 40 of them! Yet most listings are asking over 30k, and these aren't pristine either, they're 8-9 year old vehicles with six figure mileage. Clearly people aren't chomping at the bit to scoop these cars up...
> Did we reach the peak? I think the great sell off might be just around the corner.



Depends on the vehicle. 
If one is looking for a secondhand family utility runaround SUV. The prices have shot up. There is not anything decent on the market.

----------


## heavyD

My brother's girlfriend paid MSRP for a Kia Seltos as they would not budge. What is the world coming to? I got an email from a local Ford dealership about an incoming Bronco that's available. Not only full MSRP but has to be leased or financed. You know it's crazy when they would turn down cash on a new car to push financing/leasing rates on buyers.

----------


## Buster

> My brother's girlfriend paid MSRP for a Kia Seltos as they would not budge. What is the world coming to? I got an email from a local Ford dealership about an incoming Bronco that's available. Not only full MSRP but has to be leased or financed. You know it's crazy when they would turn down cash on a new car to push financing/leasing rates on buyers.



finance it and pay it out next day

----------


## pheoxs

Covid vehicle pricing is out of whack. No engine, no tranny, hail damage, body rough looking and still 20k. Crazy thing is someone will actually scoop it for that.

----------


## Buster

sounds like a good time to buy a new vehicle, if you can get one. Sure you have to pay full pop MSRP, but you can flip your used one for even better.

----------


## Brent.ff

> sounds like a good time to buy a new vehicle, if you can get one. Sure you have to pay full pop MSRP, but you can flip your used one for even better.



Kinda what my thoughts are. same with selling house and buying new, kinda evens out at the end.. if you can find one

That being said, just got a 'no discounts at this time' when their MSRP is ~12k above cost according to unhaggle

----------


## vengie

I've given up buying a car in the short term. 

I'll just continue abusing the fit.

----------


## SkiBum5.0

> Kinda what my thoughts are. same with selling house and buying new, kinda evens out at the end.. if you can find one
> 
> That being said, just got a 'no discounts at this time' when their MSRP is ~12k above cost according to unhaggle



Agree here - I know the exact price Jack Carter paid for my truck. But they will not go near invoice as I think you (and me) have found out. I’m confident no one is getting HD deals, so I moved forward. The only HD trucks arriving are orders, less than 1 a month for stock (and always Denali/High Country).

----------


## JRSC00LUDE

My friend just unloaded his 6 year old SRT Cherokee with a bit over 100K on the odometer on the used market and picked up a brand new one out of a dealer in the GVA and had under 30 g's coming out of his pocket in the end. That's a pretty good situation.

----------


## bigboom

> Kinda what my thoughts are. same with selling house and buying new, kinda evens out at the end.. if you can find one
> 
> That being said, just got a 'no discounts at this time' when their MSRP is ~12k above cost according to unhaggle



PM'd

----------


## Nufy

I was looking at something new but pricing is fucked...

Instead, I decided to throw a few grand in maintenance at my 2011 Truck and get a few more years out of it.

At 11 years old and only 123K, I should be good for a few years more...(Looks for wood to knock on...)

----------


## suntan

Give people free money and most of them will do stupid things with it.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> give people free money and most of them will do awesome things with it.



 ftfy

----------


## killramos

> ftfy



Like buy Challengers for a winter car?

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Like buy Challengers for a winter car?



Exactly like this.

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> I was looking at something new but pricing is fucked...
> 
> Instead, I decided to throw a few grand in maintenance at my 2011 Truck and get a few more years out of it.
> 
> At 11 years old and only 123K, I should be good for a few years more...(Looks for wood to knock on...)



If you can net a new truck for MSRP, you're actually ahead cause the 2011 is worth drug money still.

----------


## shakalaka

> Like buy Challengers for a winter car?






> Exactly like this.



Except no one gives me free money.

----------


## Nufy

Equivalent trim in the 2021 model year is almost 70K.

No Thanks.

- - - Updated - - -




> If you can net a new truck for MSRP, you're actually ahead cause the 2011 is worth drug money still.




2011 Ram 1500 QC Sport

----------


## spikerS

> If you can net a new truck for MSRP, you're actually ahead cause the 2011 is worth drug money still.



until manufacturing gets back to "normal" everything is going to be worth drug money.

FFS, I was offered $5k over MSRP for my new truck today by a random in the store parking lot. I had a real hard time telling him no. Truth be told, I almost said yes... I just don't want to wait another 6+ months and hope to get another...

----------


## heavyD

IMO you are better off buying a new vehicle at MSRP than a used car at inflated cost. The people paying $$$ for these used cars are going to get hit hard when the market corrects especially the ones that took out loans on them.

----------


## R-Audi

Friend of mine sold his 2019 4Runner for $3k LESS than what he paid brand new and within 5 mins of posting it. He should have waited as others offered over asking the next day but he already accepted a deposit.

----------


## Buster

I can sell my 4 year old atlas for an average depreciation of $230/month.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

I’ve had people offer me $4000 over what I paid for my 335d, the problem is replacing it is difficult and costly. FRS and 4Runner I snapped up cheap as well, and the cats in our Crown Vic are worth more than a what we paid for the car now.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> IMO you are better off buying a new vehicle at MSRP than a used car at inflated cost. The people paying $$$ for these used cars are going to get hit hard when the market corrects especially the ones that took out loans on them.



 Totally agree. This has been true of pickups for a few years now, Covid just made it worse. Availability is a problem now, but some vehicles are sitting on lots ready for you to pay MSRP.

----------


## Rocket1k78

Talked to one of the neighbors and this is almost too good to be true(hes not the type to BS tho) but maybe not, he had a 21 ram 3500 that he got in jan this year for 88k and he sold it back to the dealer for 92k last month. He needed it off his name for a mortgage and he was totally expecting to lose 10k

----------


## shakalaka

Just sold my FIL's 2019 F150 XLT (mostly basic with limited options like heated seats) with 9K km's that he purchased for 53K all-in in 2019 for $50K. I am sure if I held out, I could have gotten more but he didn't care and just wanted it out due to the lack of use. Such a pain free transaction.

On the flip side, also trying to sell my dad's Wrangler JL 2018 next and market research suggests the only 2 or 3 that are out there are listed $5-$6K over what he paid in 2018. Though I did it list it once before and got low balled and got pissed off and I still have it on with same thing happening. First day, I got 20 message approx. with one of the assholes offering $1500 over ask. Comes to look at it, commits to buy and fucking ghosts us. I go down the line and of course the momentum is lost and then people start lowballing even on an already low'ish aggressive asking price compared to the other equivalents. The first mofo crops up again after a week of seeing the add still on and says I will pay you ask. Told him to fuck-off and that we rather sell for less than asking than to give it to him.

Such a fucking hit and miss this Kijiji thing is. Main reason I didn't list my Rebel online, didn't wanna deal with this nonsense, took a bit of a bath on trade (even in this market) just cause I only had it a couple of months but I rather do that than waste my time. Sucks I have to deal with it for the folks but it is what it is.

----------


## killramos

Anyone want a. V6 mustang convertible  :ROFL!: 

I don’t even gaf if you flip it the next day for profit.

----------


## bjstare

I've been thinking about listing one of my cars lately.. we don't really need an extra one during winter. The problem is I've no idea if the market will come back to earth by the time I want to replace it in April.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Don't count on the market dropping much for a long time. The shortages aren't particularly temporary. Now if you were going to sell a used car anyway, and don't mind paying full MSRP for a new on in April, then giv'er

----------


## Pauly Boy

> Anyone want a. V6 mustang convertible



I shall alert all the middle-aged secretaries I know

----------


## suntan

> Except no one gives me free money.



You didn't fraud hard enough.

----------


## rage2

> Don't count on the market dropping much for a long time. The shortages aren't particularly temporary. Now if you were going to sell a used car anyway, and don't mind paying full MSRP for a new on in April, then giv'er



This. Chip shortages from oversight broke first, but now production being down due to COVID shutdowns is affecting everything else down the chain. Then there's catching up to the backlog.

If COVID sticks around, repeat waves every 6-8 months that we've been seeing, and SE Asia keeps shutting things down this will be a long road to production recovery.

----------


## ExtraSlow

the chip shortages are pretty fascinating as well. It's pretty low-tech chips that are often the issues. 

Had an example at my work this fall. We use a simple $9 chip for one of the tools we sell. Been using that same chip for years, usually available in stock at multiple warehouses in quantities of thousands. Currently out of stock everywhere, and estimated 18 month delivery time. We need 30 to ship an order, so we had to find a different chip, which costs us $10, but we had to re-write the firmware and re-engineer the tool to accept, which has cost us 2 months delay, and many tens of thousands of dollars of engineering time. We bought 250 of this new chip so we wouldn't have to go through that again. 

Now on a car, there may be 50 of these "low tech" chips, so the problem is compounded greatly.

----------


## heavyD

> the chip shortages are pretty fascinating as well. It's pretty low-tech chips that are often the issues.



That's precisely why the auto industry has been hit so hard as every part on a vehicle is micronmanged to the penny and outside of ECU or TCU, the rest of the electronics are as cheap (low-tech) as possible which is why you see a lot of slow responding infotainment systems (Subaru, Honda, VW, etc) as the selected hardware is typically the bare minimum required to run the software.

----------


## pheoxs

> the chip shortages are pretty fascinating as well. It's pretty low-tech chips that are often the issues. 
> 
> Had an example at my work this fall. We use a simple $9 chip for one of the tools we sell. Been using that same chip for years, usually available in stock at multiple warehouses in quantities of thousands. Currently out of stock everywhere, and estimated 18 month delivery time. We need 30 to ship an order, so we had to find a different chip, which costs us $10, but we had to re-write the firmware and re-engineer the tool to accept, which has cost us 2 months delay, and many tens of thousands of dollars of engineering time. We bought 250 of this new chip so we wouldn't have to go through that again. 
> 
> Now on a car, there may be 50 of these "low tech" chips, so the problem is compounded greatly.



Yeah, its all the dirt cheap shit that everything uses. Atmega328p was released 2012 and runs on ancient 8 bit architecture but its reliable and easy to throw in anything. Fucking can't get it anywhere. We used to pay<1.5$ a chip and now its 3-4$ a chip with long ass lead times of months. Not to mention all the PCBA houses are backed up and what used to be 1-2 week turnaround is 1-2 months.

----------


## ExtraSlow

in my professional life, i usually deal with dumb iron.

----------


## ianmcc

Trying to forecast into next spring as the lease on my ex-Car2Go CLA250 is up and wonder about buying it out then flipski. Buyout is around $27K and currently on pace for sub 50K kms on it. If there may be a market I might want to beat the dealership to the market once the 24 month lease units come back.

----------


## rage2

> Trying to forecast into next spring as the lease on my ex-Car2Go CLA250 is up and wonder about buying it out then flipski. Buyout is around $27K and currently on pace for sub 50K kms on it. If there may be a market I might want to beat the dealership to the market once the 24 month lease units come back.



If you don’t need the car, list it high now before the lease is over. If it doesn’t sell by then, return the car. Literally zero risk venture. 

If you need the car, good luck finding a replacement.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Just have no car for 4-6-12 months. That's the real winning move.

----------


## Brent.ff

I hear bicycles are well received on Beyond

----------


## max_boost

> Just have no car for 4-6-12 months. That's the real winning move.



Just not be picky and take whatever is available. That's how I pick them.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Just not be picky and take whatever is available. That's how I pick them.



Wait, are we talking about cars or ladies?

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Trying to forecast into next spring as the lease on my ex-Car2Go CLA250 is up and wonder about buying it out then flipski. Buyout is around $27K and currently on pace for sub 50K kms on it. If there may be a market I might want to beat the dealership to the market once the 24 month lease units come back.



I don't know about your lease agreement, but if I were to buy mine out right now, it would be $30g plus tax (finish the lease, and residual value). The ones on the market at the moment arent listed for much more than that.

----------


## Brent.ff

The real question is, do I spend the $500 on a new bumper on my taco before selling (couple offroad bumps), or just assume its going to go for asking regardless and save me a couple hours of work..

----------


## bjstare

> The real question is, do I spend the $500 on a new bumper on my taco before selling (couple offroad bumps), or just assume its going to go for asking regardless and save me a couple hours of work..



Definitely don't spend the money. You will not sell for $500 more because of a new bumper. If someone points it out, offer to knock off a couple hundred bucks.

----------


## spikerS

> The real question is, do I spend the $500 on a new bumper on my taco before selling (couple offroad bumps), or just assume its going to go for asking regardless and save me a couple hours of work..



don't fix it, price it $500 higher than you were going to initially. Then, the new buyer figures they are getting a deal when you offer to knock $500 off the price so they can get a new bumper.

----------


## Euro_Trash

> The real question is, do I spend the $500 on a new bumper on my taco before selling (couple offroad bumps), or just assume its going to go for asking regardless and save me a couple hours of work..

----------


## Rocket1k78

> I hear bicycles are well received on Beyond



Bikes might be harder to get than a car for real. I put a deposit at bow cycle for a 22 model and they said id be lucky to see it in august 




> The real question is, do I spend the $500 on a new bumper on my taco before selling (couple offroad bumps), or just assume its going to go for asking regardless and save me a couple hours of work..



Tacos are in high demand so unless you want serious crack money i wouldnt

----------


## Brent.ff

Got offered 3k off msrp for a factory order F250 or 350… still shy of what I want

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Got offered 3k off msrp for a factory order F250 or 350… still shy of what I want



If it's a zero down order, go ahead and do it . 7.3L

----------


## tonytiger55

> IMO you are better off buying a new vehicle at MSRP than a used car at inflated cost. The people paying $$$ for these used cars are going to get hit hard when the market corrects especially the ones that took out loans on them.



Pretty much agree.
I looked at used earlier this year. But when I ran the numbers for financing etc. It was the same as buying new if not more expensive.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> If it's a zero down order, go ahead and do it . 7.3L



That's even better than 7.2Lyfe

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

Does Whipple make a blower for the 7.3 yet?

----------


## rage2

> Pretty much agree.
> I looked at used earlier this year. But when I ran the numbers for financing etc. It was the same as buying new if not more expensive.



The question is if you can find the vehicle you want new. If it wasn’t for the help of a fellow beyonder, there’s no way I would’ve been able to get my hands on the Sienna AWD. And I still had to settle for a mid trim. Every Calgary Toyota dealer was quoting 8 months for one, and that was before Toyota cut 40% production. 

Go into any dealer and check out their new inventory. Only unwanted models and trims available. Everyone is stuffing showroom with clean used cars to not look bare. The most frustrating part is the bait and switch with some dealers. Website lists tons of vehicles, but they’re all pre sold.

----------


## Pacman

> The question is if you can find the vehicle you want new. If it wasn’t for the help of a fellow beyonder, there’s no way I would’ve been able to get my hands on the Sienna AWD. And I still had to settle for a mid trim. Every Calgary Toyota dealer was quoting 8 months for one, and that was before Toyota cut 40% production. 
> 
> Go into any dealer and check out their new inventory. Only unwanted models and trims available. Everyone is stuffing showroom with clean used cars to not look bare. The most frustrating part is the bait and switch with some dealers. Website lists tons of vehicles, but they’re all pre sold.



I'm planning on ordering a 2022 4Runner once we sort out the color we want. The dealer was suggesting 4 months for delivery but I wonder if that has been bumped to 8 months based on what you experienced.

----------


## rage2

> I'm planning on ordering a 2022 4Runner once we sort out the color we want. The dealer was suggesting 4 months for delivery but I wonder if that has been bumped to 8 months based on what you experienced.



Talk to 
@Redlyne_mr2
 Ryan in Red Deer Toyota. He’s no bullshit and can give you realistic timelines. But really, I’d say it’s pretty unpredictable still.

----------


## Pacman

> Talk to 
> @Redlyne_mr2
>  Ryan in Red Deer Toyota. He’s no bullshit and can give you realistic timelines. But really, I’d say it’s pretty unpredictable still.



that's who I'm working with on it. Once we get the color sorted out I'll order. Might be better for it to arrive in spring anyways as the snow and rocks will be gone. That way I get one nice summer out of before it gets destroyed the following winter.

----------


## heavyD

> Talk to 
> @Redlyne_mr2
>  Ryan in Red Deer Toyota. Hes no bullshit and can give you realistic timelines. But really, Id say its pretty unpredictable still.



So that's where Ryan is. I need to get back into a car but I don't do winter beaters so I don't know if the Supra will be great in the winter as I live in a cul de sac and you don't get a good run at our driveway.

----------


## tonytiger55

> The question is if you can find the vehicle you want new. If it wasn’t for the help of a fellow beyonder, there’s no way I would’ve been able to get my hands on the Sienna AWD. And I still had to settle for a mid trim. Every Calgary Toyota dealer was quoting 8 months for one, and that was before Toyota cut 40% production. 
> 
> Go into any dealer and check out their new inventory. Only unwanted models and trims available. Everyone is stuffing showroom with clean used cars to not look bare. The most frustrating part is the bait and switch with some dealers. Website lists tons of vehicles, but they’re all pre sold.



Thats true. A couple of the dealers did the scare story that I might have to wait a couple of weeks. 
But I didn't have too much of a issue at the dealer I bought at. When I got my new Zonda in July I got the mid trim (Sport). I upper trim had rear heated seats(im a single guy- dont need) and tailgate sensor did not allow for a bike/tow hitch. 

I did have to wait a few days as they did not have the colour I wanted(white). But it was smooth process.

----------


## zechs

Was getting the Ford worked on at Cam Clark today.

Lots of 2021 trucks on the lot. Even had a powerboost lariat in the nice blue. I'm curious as to what options these trucks are missing that people don't want them, I was under the impression that the majority of new vehicle purchases in North America are "off the lot".

Another interesting note, I see extremely few ecoboost 2.7 trucks. Lots of 3.3 or 3.5 ecoboost. A stripper XLT 3.3 has a msrp almost as much as my sport package 2020, that gave me a chuckle.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Was getting the Ford worked on at Cam Clark today.
> 
> Lots of 2021 trucks on the lot. Even had a powerboost lariat in the nice blue. I'm curious as to what options these trucks are missing that people don't want them, I was under the impression that the majority of new vehicle purchases in North America are "off the lot".
> 
> Another interesting note, I see extremely few ecoboost 2.7 trucks. Lots of 3.3 or 3.5 ecoboost. A stripper XLT 3.3 has a msrp almost as much as my sport package 2020, that gave me a chuckle.



Missing the large discount option.

----------


## Brent.ff

> Missing the large discount option.



bingo. When MSRP is 10k above invoice and they wont move more then a grand...

----------


## zechs

> Missing the large discount option.



So there is no shortage? Man, that was an easy fix, supply and demand ftw!  :ROFL!:

----------


## SkiBum5.0

> Does Whipple make a blower for the 7.3 yet?



Yes. There is an amazing deal on a 7.3 motor trans swap on Kijiji in Ontario right now. $8300 for both

----------


## Rocket1k78

> So there is no shortage? Man, that was an easy fix, supply and demand ftw!



There definitely is a shortage but theres still options out there if youre not set on a specific truck. Universal called me about a month or 2 ago and offered me crack money for mine but i said i needed a truck and couldnt wait, asked me what i wanted and sure enough they had one. Went down thinking id sell mine at a premium and get a new one at a slight deal even though normally theyd be doin 8-10k off msrp but like brent.ff said the best they could do was $2000 off and theres no way im paying 70k for a lariat lol I did get introduced to the 4 square thing i hear so much good things about  :ROFL!:  Best part is hearing them say we can keep your payments the same, im like sure you can but now instead of me being paid off in a little over a year ill be paying the same monthly but for even longer, i dont get how people can fall for that

----------


## ExtraSlow

If they use the 4 square paper, that's the sign of a great deal.

----------


## Rocket1k78

> If they use the 4 square paper, that's the sign of a great deal.



i bought my last few vehicles via email so i mustve over paid lol

----------


## ExtraSlow

The 4 square paper is incredible. It's like a tardis for numbers.

----------


## blairtruck

First time since 2002 buying a vehicle. The order should be ready mid-January they say.

----------


## Pauly Boy

> i bought my last few vehicles via email so i mustve over paid lol



Rofl. This is the way.

I should go kick some tires to actually experience the 4 square someday though, lol

----------


## 2020

Head to davis chev in airdrie if you want to experience the amazingly transparent 4 square.

----------


## zieg

Might take less time to simply list the dealers that don't try some veiled, if not overt, version of that.

----------


## Brent.ff

offered 4k off a factory order AT4, but pretty small dealership allocation so will be curious where that ends up for an actual order receipt time

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Might take less time to simply list the dealers that don't try some veiled, if not overt, version of that.



We here at Superz Autopia don't hassle you with the lame old-school 4 square. We use the modern updated 4-Diamond system!

----------


## ExtraSlow

> We here at Superz Autopia don't hassle you with the lame old-school 4 square. We use the modern updated 4-Diamond system!



Reminds me of the classic diamond shreddies.

----------


## suntan

Just come up with a monthly payment based on the price you want to pay and deduct 20%. Give them that monthly payment number, it fucks them up like crazy.

----------


## killramos

> Just come up with a monthly payment based on the price you want to pay and deduct 20%. Give them that monthly payment number, it fucks them up like crazy.



You know 4 square only works because most car buyers aren’t capable of doing that kind of math right?

----------


## suntan

We're smrter at beyond.

----------


## killramos



----------


## suntan

Well I'm probably bringing down the average.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Evidence does not point to beyond members being above average intelligence.

----------


## suntan

Damn that makes me even dumberer than I think I am.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Damn that makes me even dumberer than I think I am.



In your defense, you are always the last to realize . . .

----------


## Rocket1k78

> You know 4 square only works because most car buyers arent capable of doing that kind of math right?



Scary but true. For them to still continue to use the phrase "keeping your payments the same" must mean it works :ROFL!:

----------


## Brent.ff

"If I was to do the order, I would want a non-refundable deposit as we would be trying up our allocation on your spec and not necessarily one I would want to order for stock in an AT4. We would want $1000 as a commitment."

Ha. Fucking dealers..

----------


## Darkane

Crazy times indeed. Time to bury the head in the sand, hunker down and leave cars alone for a few years.

----------


## Brent.ff

Yaaa pretty much whats going to happen at this point.

----------


## ExtraSlow

My 2020 F150 302A is available for $75,678 if anyone is interested. Under 20,000 km. Throw in the 3m and tonneau.

----------


## Darkane

> My 2020 F150 302A is available for $75,678 if anyone is interested. Under 20,000 km. Throw in the 3m and tonneau.



Seat stains? Asking for a friend

----------


## Hallowed_point

I've managed to avoid buying a car for over 3 years now which is a new personal record. It's nice seeing a positive balance in the bank account and getting off the "I need new used car" hamster wheel. Grateful for all this stuff in a way as it keeps me in check.

----------


## vengie

I have a gently used 2007 Honda Fit with ~240,xxx km that I will reluctantly sell for $5,432.
Has some war wounds, but that just adds character.

Have I mentioned its pretty much a truck?

----------


## spikerS

> My 2020 F150 302A is available for $75,678 if anyone is interested. Under 20,000 km. Throw in the 3m and tonneau.



Sadly, you are not too far off the mark price wise in the current market. I think if you listed it for $70k, you could probably sell it for $62 pretty quickly, $65 if you take your time. I know your post is in jest, but, yeah...

----------


## ExtraSlow

$62 only gets me a new truck of same spec. need that plus pocket money to make it happen.

----------


## killramos

Everything is for sale for the right price

----------


## lilmira

John Wick disagrees

----------


## ExtraSlow

Have a buddy wanting to sell this: -	2014 Dodge Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4WD, 140,000 kms. My personal assessment of the condition is "fair" but I'm sure the kijiji advert will say "mint". What's that thing worth? It's got the crucial #1 VIN, but I think it's too old to export. Guessing that thing is worth $20,000-$25,000 even in mediocre condition in this "buster-hot" market.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Have a buddy wanting to sell this: -	2014 Dodge Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4WD, 140,000 kms. My personal assessment of the condition is "fair" but I'm sure the kijiji advert will say "mint". What's that thing worth? It's got the crucial #1 VIN, but I think it's too old to export. Guessing that thing is worth $20,000-$25,000 even in mediocre condition in this "buster-hot" market.



Likely in the range depending on how crusty it is.

----------


## legendboy

I have a clean modified 08 3/4 ton dodge 6.7 with 17k in repair receipts. Don't need the truck anymore and have thought about selling it and trying to get as much out of it as I can. So far I haven't listed it, probably should tho

----------


## kobe tai

Was wanting to buy another S2000 but idiots these days (mainly dealerships) want $50k+ for a AP2. WTF

So bought wannabe S2000 last weekend

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Was wanting to buy another S2000 but idiots these days (mainly dealerships) want $50k+ for a AP2. WTF
> 
> So bought wannabe S2000 last weekend



Fuck was this the one on Kijiji for $32k forever?

----------


## kobe tai

> Fuck was this the one on Kijiji for $32k forever?



This the one. Relatively clean car overall

----------


## bjstare

For $30k I’d much rather have that than a clapped s2k with 200k km on it. Great buy. 

Saw an ad for an AP1 with 240k km and the dealer was asking like $26k, what a joke.

----------


## kobe tai

> For $30k I’d much rather have that than a clapped s2k with 200k km on it. Great buy. 
> 
> Saw an ad for an AP1 with 240k km and the dealer was asking like $26k, what a joke.



Yeah last time I was looking (in summer) there was no AP1s under $30k and no AP2s under $45k. Those are bullshit prices

----------


## ShermanEF9

> We here at Superz Autopia don't hassle you with the lame old-school 4 square. We use the modern updated 4-Diamond system!



Call me when you start using the parallelogram system.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

Market is HOT, just flipped my 4Runner for profit after a month lol.

----------


## killramos

not enough A's or W's

----------


## max_boost

> Evidence does not point to beyond members being above average intelligence.



Which member are you using for the average intelligence benchmark?

- - - Updated - - -

Women are funny. My friend bought a s5 sport back and now she wants to trade it in a month later for a Tiguan. Okay whatever you like my dear  :crazy nut:

----------


## ExtraSlow

Are you dating Shak? I thought he was married?

----------


## Rocket1k78

> Are you dating Shak? I thought he was married?



I was going to say not Shak for sure seeing as its an S5 to a tiguan but he did just pick up a normal charger lol Sorry shak but i had to :Pooosie:

----------


## ShermanEF9

..

----------


## ExtraSlow

My niece needs a beater since her cobalt died. Five grand used to get you a pretty respectable ride but seems like the low end of the market is as fucked as anything else. Anyone selling a 4-door car that's reliable for under $10k?

----------


## killramos

Should have bought my mustang

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Should have bought my mustang



Accurate. I'll tell her to buy rages e-wagon.

----------


## killramos

Offer him 5 grand. I heard a rumour he’s desperate.

----------


## ExtraSlow

I'll ask him what is best price is.

----------


## vengie

Looking at upgrading my wife's SUV and getting her a van. 
Her SUV has increased in value ~$6,000 from where they were priced 6months to a year ago.... 

Confirmed insane market.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Bad news, the van she wants went up $15k.

----------


## OTown

> Bad news, the van she wants went up $20k.



Fixed

----------


## killramos

Hawwwwt

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Should have bought my mustang



No! That was me!

----------


## killramos

Worst. Bidding war. Ever

----------


## ExtraSlow

> No! That was me!



But you are my alt anyway. So same same.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

Shopping for a new car (unfortunately not by choice), almost nothing is affordable for me these days. If Im lucky I might be able to afford a base GTi.

----------


## Buster

> Shopping for a new car (unfortunately not by choice), almost nothing is affordable for me these days. If I’m lucky I might be able to afford a base GTi.



inflation is fake

----------


## killramos

> inflation is fake



Buy bitcoins

----------


## Buster

> Buy bitcoins



buying lead

----------


## vengie

> buying lead



Someone has been watching too much Rittenhouse...

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> But you are my alt anyway. So same same.



Is that why I like jerking off so very very much??!
Am I engaging in Dutch Rudders without my own knowledge? Call me Camus, cuz I love a little _Stranger_.

----------


## Buster

> Someone has been watching too much Rittenhouse...

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Shopping for a new car (unfortunately not by choice), almost nothing is affordable for me these days. If I’m lucky I might be able to afford a base GTi.



Didn't you just brag about flipping your 4runner?

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Didn't you just brag about flipping your 4runner?



It was a 1996, I’m talking like actually a new new car.

----------


## richardchan2002

> My niece needs a beater since her cobalt died. Five grand used to get you a pretty respectable ride but seems like the low end of the market is as fucked as anything else. Anyone selling a 4-door car that's reliable for under $10k?



I’m helping my mom’s friend sell her 2006 BMW 325i. 

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...-km/1593099884

The inline 6’s from the 3-series are one of my favourites. I considered buying it myself but I have too many cars and too little space.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> I’m helping my mom’s friend sell her 2006 BMW 325i. 
> 
> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...-km/1593099884
> 
> The inline 6’s from the 3-series are one of my favourites. I considered buying it myself but I have too many cars and too little space.



PM'ed

----------


## spikerS

> I’m helping my mom’s friend sell her 2006 BMW 325i. 
> 
> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...-km/1593099884
> 
> The inline 6’s from the 3-series are one of my favourites. I considered buying it myself but I have too many cars and too little space.



I don't know much about BMWs, but that seems like a pretty good deal in this market, for sure!

----------


## Xtrema

$5K USD for Ceramic coating...  :ROFL!:

----------


## Brent.ff

Hey now, theft protection under a grand!

----------


## shakalaka

LOL - 'market value adjustment' or in other words, dealer fucking gouging and trying to overcharge from MSRP.

I wish people would just band together and stop buying vehicles at over MSRP regardless of how rare or cool or whatever the fuck they might be so these dealers can stop being blood sucking leeches.

----------


## killramos

I mean. We are perfectly comfortable with buying cars under MSRP when the market is hanging out in the other direction.

I wouldn’t personally pay a market price adjustment, but I don’t fault the dealer for trying to make up some revenue in the good times that they leave on the table in the shitty times lol.

It’s their car they can sell it for whatever price they want to.

----------


## ianmcc

Not sure where the photo came from but this is the car in question.

https://www.mckennaaudi.com/new/Audi...57a5f112b8.htm

----------


## ExtraSlow

I'd prefer to blame buyers who do zero homework and who are unwilling to even consider car buying as worthy of financial preparation. People who only "shop the payments" deserve the fucking they get from the four-square scumbags honestly. Selling over MSRP doesn't offend me.

----------


## shakalaka

I love the Audi Nardo Grey. So sick. Not sick enough to pay the 50K+ markup for me though. lol

----------


## rage2

> I love the Audi Nardo Grey. So sick. Not sick enough to pay the 50K+ markup for me though. lol



I loved it too until everyone copied it. 







This is just from this week haha. Been collecting photos the last month of all the brands using nardo grey. It’s fucking everywhere, down to the $20k Kia’s.

----------


## gpomp

Is it cheaper since they are basically spray clearcoat over primer?

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Is it cheaper since they are basically spray clearcoat over primer?



If they did that, yes, but they do not.

----------


## Buster

ya, that grey is pretty played out now

----------


## shakalaka

> I loved it too until everyone copied it. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is just from this week haha. Been collecting photos the last month of all the brands using nardo grey. It’s fucking everywhere, down to the $20k Kia’s.



Oh fuck..well there goes that then. Haha.

----------


## Buster

Nardo grey is the Canada Goose Jacket of car colors

----------


## bjstare

> LOL - 'market value adjustment' or in other words, dealer fucking gouging and trying to overcharge from MSRP.
> 
> I wish people would just band together and stop buying vehicles at over MSRP regardless of how rare or cool or whatever the fuck they might be so these dealers can stop being blood sucking leeches.



What is it that makes you think the car market is exempt from the supply/demand curve, and normal market dynamics? Should all houses sell at the assessed value as well? Should the price of oil be fixed at $75 for eternity?

----------


## killramos

Everyone is a capitalist until capitalism doesnt work in their favour

----------


## spikerS

> I loved it too until everyone copied it. 
> 
> .



I thought you were about to make fun of me and my old truck.  :ROFL!:  

It's funny you moan about this, but cheer on Apple HAHAHA

----------


## SKR

> Should the price of oil be fixed at $75 for eternity?



This actually would be really nice.

----------


## rage2

> I thought you were about to make fun of me and my old truck.  
> 
> It's funny you moan about this, but cheer on Apple HAHAHA



I can’t buy nardo gray stock.

----------


## tonytiger55

I looked for Nardo grey when I was looking to buy my new vehicle. But it was not available then (it is now). 
It looks great in bright daylight. But I saw one the other night. It looks like a dark rain cloud from England took a shit on the car. It looks bloody ugly.

----------


## shakalaka

> What is it that makes you think the car market is exempt from the supply/demand curve, and normal market dynamics? Should all houses sell at the assessed value as well? Should the price of oil be fixed at $75 for eternity?



Hey man, I don't need to like it though right. Haha.

I guess you have the money and want it bad enough, you go for it. No different than people forking close to $100K over MSRP on G-Wagons right now. A buddy got his allocation of a G wagon a week ago and flipped it to (he got a Bentley in the meantime) August Motorcars for a $50K profit in a day. AM will further flip it for another 30K-40K or so as we know so yea I know how it goes.

I just don't like it.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

Is there a colour available called Jackie Denardo?

----------


## Buster

> Hey man, I don't need to like it though right. Haha.
> 
> I guess you have the money and want it bad enough, you go for it. No different than people forking close to $100K over MSRP on G-Wagons right now. A buddy got his allocation of a G wagon a week ago and flipped it to (he got a Bentley in the meantime) August Motorcars for a $50K profit in a day. AM will further flip it for another 30K-40K or so as we know so yea I know how it goes.
> 
> I just don't like it.



Inflation makes us poorer. But even worse inflation makes us feel poorer.

----------


## Rocket1k78

> What is it that makes you think the car market is exempt from the supply/demand curve, and normal market dynamics? Should all houses sell at the assessed value as well? Should the price of oil be fixed at $75 for eternity?



Yeah im not a fan of it either but this is life.

----------


## max_boost

> Hey man, I don't need to like it though right. Haha.
> 
> I guess you have the money and want it bad enough, you go for it. No different than people forking close to $100K over MSRP on G-Wagons right now. A buddy got his allocation of a G wagon a week ago and flipped it to (he got a Bentley in the meantime) August Motorcars for a $50K profit in a day. AM will further flip it for another 30K-40K or so as we know so yea I know how it goes.
> 
> I just don't like it.



It's insane. All this new money and new age ballers. Teslanaires, Cryptonaires, Govt printed, whatever the case  :Pimpin':

----------


## Neil4Speed

I think it is, I actually get a bit nervous driving my car now a days. I like it so much and know I can't replace it with something with the same amount of 'smiles', for anywhere close to the price.

----------


## got_mike33

What in the actual fuck is going on with the pricing of RAV4 hybrids? When did they become the vehicle that people are paying significantly more than MSRP for used:

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...age/1598342482

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...ybrid/m2837663

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...e-awd/m2777922

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...xle/1593204505

----------


## rage2

Trying to sucker dumb people into thinking they’re primes?

----------


## rx7boi

Meh, no big deal. People have been selling overpriced shit way before the pandemic started.

I wouldn't put too much thought into it.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

Yeah this happens with all sorts of makes and models. Sometimes I see an ad preview with a price and just lol.

----------


## got_mike33

> Trying to sucker dumb people into thinking theyre primes?



Doesn't seem to be that way, all the ads are clearly labeled with the trim. I was told by one dealer it's because of the high demand and low supply of these vehicles, but those prices are nuts.

----------


## rage2

> Doesn't seem to be that way, all the ads are clearly labeled with the trim. I was told by one dealer it's because of the high demand and low supply of these vehicles, but those prices are nuts.



That is a huge issue too. There are people who need a car replacement and have no choice but to pay these silly prices. Some dealerships are now refusing to sell you a low supply high demand car unless you trade something in. And they’re offering silly money. I made out well on both my cars I sold, and one was a dealer trade in. Got 15-20k more than if I sold last year. Its nuts. 

Now excuse me while I go warm up my 03 Sentra because I have no cars left.  :ROFL!:

----------


## tonytiger55

> What in the actual fuck is going on with the pricing of RAV4 hybrids? When did they become the vehicle that people are paying significantly more than MSRP for used:
> 
> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...age/1598342482
> 
> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...ybrid/m2837663
> 
> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...e-awd/m2777922
> 
> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...xle/1593204505



That is MSRP. When you add tax, financing a few paint protection goodies etc. Thats the price it comes up to. 
I was looking at the XLE earlier this summer. When I ran the financing etc it came up as that. :crazy nut: 
Im thinking those people are trying to break even in the sale. That price is Lexus territory. Also It would take 7 years to start getting money back from the fuel savings. I would have bought it if I was on duel income with a partner. But as a single guy..it was 10K over my budget. I saved the cash and focused on enjoying the double meat subs.

----------


## spikerS

> Got 15-20k more than if I sold last year. Its nuts.



Truth.

I traded in my '19 Lariat with ~41k on it. In a "normal" year, dealer would have probably given me $43k when trading it in. I traded it in this year for a new '21, and the dealer gave me $55k in trade which is what I got it for new back in '19 after the factory incentives...

----------


## heavyD

> RAV4 hybrid xle
> Brand new car just drive 1000 km
> Asking price 49000 not negotiable



Sign of the times I guess but I just don't understand why people are paying this kind of money for vehicles. Especially ones like this.

----------


## Buster

> Sign of the times I guess but I just don't understand why people are paying this kind of money for vehicles. Especially ones like this.



"This kind of money" isn't worth what that kind of money used to be worth.

----------


## jutes

> "This kind of money" isn't worth what that kind of money used to be worth.



Your salary hasn't gone up with inflation? Should get on the fed gov gravy train.

----------


## Buster

> Your salary hasn't gone up with inflation? Should get on the fed gov gravy train.



Haven't had a salary since 2006...but I get what you mean.

----------


## ragu

Those who are in the industry, is the bigger driver new car availability (shortage) or FOMO? If it’s former, when do you expect it to sort out and used car market to come back to earth?

----------


## Buster

> Those who are in the industry, is the bigger driver new car availability (shortage) or FOMO? If it’s former, when do you expect it to sort out and used car market to come back to earth?



It's inflation. Inflation doesn't spread itself evenly around an economy as is implied by the one number that gets thrown around. Supply chain issues are part of the inflation problem, as is currency inflation.

----------


## ragu

> It's inflation. Inflation doesn't spread itself evenly around an economy as is implied by the one number that gets thrown around. Supply chain issues are part of the inflation problem, as is currency inflation.



Partly, yes. But I think a big part of this is new car production as my friend who ordered a new car (Lexus) has been waiting for 6 months. Nothing crazy in spec but what is supply chain.

----------


## Xtrema

> Those who are in the industry, is the bigger driver new car availability (shortage) or FOMO? If it’s former, when do you expect it to sort out and used car market to come back to earth?



There is a bit of FOMO but Toyota said they are starting to churn out 800k next month a bottleneck eases. So these craziness will be ease.

But watch out when 2023 MSRP are set, we may be in for a shock.

----------


## rage2

> There is a bit of FOMO but Toyota said they are starting to churn out 800k next month a bottleneck eases. So these craziness will be ease.
> 
> But watch out when 2023 MSRP are set, we may be in for a shock.



Toyota is the only one to figure it out. Everyone else still struggling. I know the MB situation well and they’re absolutely fucked. Each dealer has something like 100 cars stuck in Germany completed but missing parts. These are 2021 cars. I believe my car is the first 2022 out of Germany destined for Alberta. Alabama production is a bit better so 2022 SUVs are trickling in based on what’s showing up in inventory. 

Then there’s the backlog. Even with Toyota it’ll take months to clear.

But ya next year will suck for pricing.

----------


## ragu

> Toyota is the only one to figure it out. Everyone else still struggling. I know the MB situation well and they’re absolutely fucked. Each dealer has something like 100 cars stuck in Germany completed but missing parts. These are 2021 cars. I believe my car is the first 2022 out of Germany destined for Alberta. Alabama production is a bit better so 2022 SUVs are trickling in based on what’s showing up in inventory. 
> 
> Then there’s the backlog. Even with Toyota it’ll take months to clear.
> 
> But ya next year will suck for pricing.



I don’t understand this too well. What exactly are they missing from production perspective? What is this chip or whatever else…

----------


## rage2

> I don’t understand this too well. What exactly are they missing from production perspective? What is this chip or whatever else…



Here’s how I understand it. 

It’s legacy cheap chips. Our iPhones are what 5nm chips? These are 15 year old 45nm chips that do really simple shit such as locking and unlocking doors, controlling pressure to lumbar air bags, controlling start stop, regulate power for screens, etc. Basic ass functions. They’re cheap and reliable. Because they’re so old, they’re built in old ass fabs that manufactures nothing but these legacy chips. Supply chain and logistics had a perfect balance of production, cost, margins, capacity. Things were good. 

Covid hits. Car manufacturers are stupid and thought the car market is toast. People staying at home. Let’s cancel chip contracts. 2 things happen. Fabs became a liability. Fabs are run so lean that any changes to demand will lose them a ton of money. Fabs upgrade to newer nm process reducing capacity but will make higher margin modern chips. Tv manufactures and other industry order more chips and lock out whatever capacity is left because everyone is at home watching tv. Car manufactures then see spike in demand because everyone who still has a job has disposable income and want to upgrade cars. They have no chips to meet demand, let alone the growth. They can’t get new contracts because capacity has been reduced and supply being taken by other industries. All of a sudden, you have cars that can’t be produced because it’s can’t get a bunch of 5 cent parts. 

That’s the big part of it. Toyota actually hoarded chips and didn’t reduce their orders so they weren’t really affected at all. What got them was Covid shutdowns for things like wiring loom assembly plants in Vietnam and Malaysia so that’s what they were short on. They were able to pivot to other manufacturers quickly so their reduced production only really lasted 2 months. Their demand is through the roof as people (hey even me) went to buy a Toyota. 

That’s where we stand now. Car manufacturers are scrambling to find replacement more expensive chips and redesigning components to work with them. Tesla did that relatively quickly, traditional manufacturers are taking more time on it, my guess based on legacy development cycles, as well as much more stringent testing cycles. The other fix is manufacturers outbidding other industries on legacy chips on further contracts. With reduced production capacity, it’s a lot more expensive now. That’s why shit is slowly getting more expensive.

----------


## Buster

The BMW guys recently tried to sell me a $130k SUV with no touch screen. Lol

----------


## blairtruck

wagon got delayed 2 weeks maybe Jan 1 delivery. Landed in Halifax 2 weeks ago. I lost the compass in the mirror due to chip shortage. Better than General motors losing heated seats and heated steering wheels.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Here’s how I understand it. 
> 
> It’s legacy cheap chips. Our iPhones are what 5nm chips? These are 15 year old 45nm chips that do really simple shit such as locking and unlocking doors, controlling pressure to lumbar air bags, controlling start stop, regulate power for screens, etc. Basic ass functions. They’re cheap and reliable. Because they’re so old, they’re built in old ass fabs that manufactures nothing but these legacy chips. Supply chain and logistics had a perfect balance of production, cost, margins, capacity. Things were good.



Accurate assessment, and has affected many industries. Cheap microchips control nearly every product. A car may have dozens of low-end chips that handle things. My company has had to completely redesign a few products because of $9 chips, and even though we found alternative, we have to re-write all the firmware to run them.

----------


## rage2

> wagon got delayed 2 weeks maybe Jan 1 delivery. Landed in Halifax 2 weeks ago. I lost the compass in the mirror due to chip shortage. Better than General motors losing heated seats and heated steering wheels.



Mine too. I have a release eta for Jan 7. Apparently the VPC was short staffed handing final service campaigns. Was your ship morning Lucy? If so we were on the same boat haha. My boat docked at Zeebrugge picking up Volvos, and timeline seems to match.

----------


## blairtruck

> Mine too. I have a release eta for Jan 7. Apparently the VPC was short staffed handing final service campaigns. Was your ship morning Lucy? If so we were on the same boat haha. My boat docked at Zeebrugge picking up Volvos, and timeline seems to match.



I have no idea of the boat. But it was loaded on the train yesterday to come across country ETA dec31-Jan6

----------


## rage2

> I have no idea of the boat. But it was loaded on the train yesterday to come across country ETA dec31-Jan6



Ahh nice. Congrats. I won’t be seeing a train till next year.

----------


## SkiBum5.0

My new truck is in the ether. Somewhere between accepted for production and….production. If I’m not careful I will end up driving a Sentra

----------


## Buster

Group buy on sentras

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Group buy on sentras



Their lots are in the Rope and Rickety Stool district.

----------


## killramos

The bus would be a better option

----------


## jutes

Anyone interested in a SS1LE? Looking to move into a ZL1. 

Gib good price.

----------


## riander5

Throw some studded winters on for me and maybe ill buy

Does a carseat fit in the back?

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Anyone interested in a SS1LE? Looking to move into a ZL1. 
> 
> Gib good price.



Man I wish.

----------


## dirtsniffer

> Anyone interested in a SS1LE? Looking to move into a ZL1. 
> 
> Gib good price.



interested.. but is this like 2021 good pricing? cause if so, not interested

----------


## jaylo

> interested.. but is this like 2021 good pricing? cause if so, not interested



Factory orders and buying from a dealer outside Calgary are your best bet.

You could _still_ encounter a greedy dealership outside Calgary if you're not careful...

----------


## BavarianBeast

Damn, I always thought the top trim Camaro was like $55k!

----------


## jutes

> Throw some studded winters on for me and maybe ill buy
> 
> Does a carseat fit in the back?



I have OEM wheels on 18” blizzaks included.

Yes it does.

/thread highjack.

----------


## dirtsniffer

What are you asking?

----------


## jutes

> Factory orders and buying from a dealer outside Calgary are your best bet.
> 
> You could _still_ encounter a greedy dealership outside Calgary if you're not careful...]



Damn same colour that I want, except without any options. Adjustment price can fuck off.




> What are you asking?



Haven’t decided yet, maybe low 40s? 17’ with 33k.

----------


## C4S

Well, Just the hint ... the situation isn't as bad anymore, most dealerships/manufactures are getting good inventory in the next couple month, wont see discount as before, but sure not $90K for a Camaro ... many buyers agreed to pay huge premium over MSRP on their orders, are re-negotiating now .. 

However, still don't know how the "New Luxury tax" works ...

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

I’m kinda stuck probably having to shop for a “new” car now, just not even very excited for the first time in my life.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Perfect time to buy something boring that doesn't have a shortage.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Perfect time to buy something boring that doesn't have a shortage.



Unfortunately I am not really interested in owning an appliance, might have to just go without a second car for a while.

----------


## ExtraSlow

owning fewer cars is always good for the bank account.

----------


## killramos

Unless it’s a Shelby pickup truck

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> owning fewer cars is always good for the bank account.



Well I’m down to one death trap and one broken vehicle now, might just sell the broken one for what it’s worth and live with the death trap. I’m just so not looking forward to making payments or dipping into my TFSA.

----------


## Buster

> Unless it’s a Shelby pickup truck



or a rental spec italian

----------


## shakalaka

> or a rental spec italian



Big talk coming from a Ridgeline driver.

----------


## Buster

> Big talk coming from a Ridgeline driver.



Dude I wasnt being serious. I really like your new car.

I also know that you don't get emotionally attached to your cars, so I think of them as fair game. Lol

----------


## killramos

> Big talk coming from a Ridgeline driver.



At least he’s not driving an old Sentra like some people

----------


## Buster

> At least he’s not driving an old Sentra like some people



That appears to be my trajectory though

----------


## shakalaka

Lol I am also joking, I thought it’s what we do around here. Pull each others’ legs for a bit of fun. Haha. 

It’s about time you pull the trigger on that McLaren or Ferrari and come back to the world of living.  :Pimpin':

----------


## Buster

> Lol I am also joking, I thought it’s what we do around here. Pull each others’ legs for a bit of fun. Haha. 
> 
> It’s about time you pull the trigger on that McLaren or Ferrari and come back to the world of living.



you're a good sport and take a lot of abuse...just thought you might have snapped, lol

I'm off the cars for another year or so until the market settles down. When I was looking at F12s a couple of years ago, they have now gone up $100k. I'm not too fond of burning money and I think we're going to see things come abck down to earth.

In the meantime, I've got my eye on a BMW....

----------


## shakalaka

Market is definitely insane. My brother’s 720S has gone up in value from what he paid earlier in the year and he had already paid the marked-up prices. Even my AMG GTS has gone up in value slightly. I think I will stick it out with it until at least mid next year, halfway into summer and assess where the market is sitting at and go from there before getting into something else. 

Oooh what BMW? Them M8’s are freaking nice.

----------


## dirtsniffer

> Unfortunately I am not really interested in owning an appliance, might have to just go without a second car for a while.



https://www.southtrailhyundai.com/ve..._redirect=true

----------


## Buster

> Market is definitely insane. My brother’s 720S has gone up in value from what he paid earlier in the year and he had already paid the marked-up prices. Even my AMG GTS has gone up in value slightly. I think I will stick it out with it until at least mid next year, halfway into summer and assess where the market is sitting at and go from there before getting into something else. 
> 
> Oooh what BMW? Them M8’s are freaking nice.



I'll post it if I buy it.  :Smilie:

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> https://www.southtrailhyundai.com/ve..._redirect=true



My work Hyundai is such a piece of shit I wouldn’t chance owning one personally.

----------


## tonytiger55

I might be helping a friend sell her 2012 CRV Ex in the weeks after Christmas. But the way the market is. I can't figure out how to price it properly.

----------


## bjstare

> Oooh what BMW? Them M8’s are freaking nice.



More midlife crisis-ey, fewer wheels. I’ll be v jealous.

----------


## rage2

> Well, Just the hint ... the situation isn't as bad anymore, most dealerships/manufactures are getting good inventory in the next couple month, wont see discount as before, but sure not $90K for a Camaro ... many buyers agreed to pay huge premium over MSRP on their orders, are re-negotiating now .. 
> 
> However, still don't know how the "New Luxury tax" works ...



New luxury tax delayed till spring budget.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> New luxury tax delayed till spring budget.



I wonder if they'll amend it to not apply to EV's over $100g

----------


## G-ZUS

> I might be helping a friend sell her 2012 CRV Ex in the weeks after Christmas. But the way the market is. I can't figure out how to price it properly.




How much is she looking to get for it? My father is looking for one of those.

----------


## redblack

> I might be helping a friend sell her 2012 CRV Ex in the weeks after Christmas. But the way the market is. I can't figure out how to price it properly.



18-25K
Price it high, you might get some desperate bites.

----------


## jutes

Shoot me if I get desperate for a 10 year old CRV.

----------


## BavarianBeast

> New luxury tax delayed till spring budget.



I took a gamble on this and it sounds like its going to work out for me!

----------


## killramos

> I took a gamble on this and it sounds like it’s going to work out for me!



When’s your delivery?

Need to live vicariously through someone.

----------


## rage2

> 18-25K
> Price it high, you might get some desperate bites.



That strategy worked well for me. Priced it highest of all competing cars, ignored all the low ballers, and 2 months later got asking. The wagon, the dealer offered trade in that almost matched my best offer (< $1000 difference after tax credit) so I just traded it in instead for even less hassles. I wasn't in a rush to sell, almost think I could've asked more and waited longer instead of leaving me carless right now.

----------


## BavarianBeast

> When’s your delivery?
> 
> Need to live vicariously through someone.



End of March, hopefully. Fingers crossed!

----------


## jaylo

So the money I make by selling at an inflated price, I would end up losing by buying another used vehicle that also has an inflated price.

Quite a hassle unless it's a lease expiring or a highly sought-after vehicle you are putting on the market.

----------


## rage2

> So the money I make by selling at an inflated price, I would end up losing by buying another used vehicle that also has an inflated price.
> 
> Quite a hassle unless it's a lease expiring or a highly sought-after vehicle you are putting on the market.



I only put the vehicle on the market after I confirmed a new vehicle at msrp or lower. It’s the delays that got me.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> So the money I make by selling at an inflated price, I would end up losing by buying another used vehicle that also has an inflated price.
> 
> Quite a hassle unless it's a lease expiring or a highly sought-after vehicle you are putting on the market.



How are people able to connect these dots with vehicles, but not with real estate that costs 10x more?

----------


## killramos

> How are people able to connect these dots with vehicles, but not with real estate that costs 10x more?



Because buying real estate gets you RICH

----------


## ExtraSlow

> How are people able to connect these dots with vehicles, but not with real estate that costs 10x more?



you shut your whore mouth now is the best time to buy!

----------


## rage2

Current situation with some data. The G63 numbers are well known bonkers. 

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/cont...ry?id=82489039

----------


## killramos

G63 orders are pushed well into 2024 right now.

Can you pre sell an entire generation of vehicles? Hahha

----------


## ExtraSlow

Airbus and Boeing do it.

----------


## pheoxs

People were flipping Tesla reservations. I wonder how long (or is there already) until a grey market pops up for Rav4 pre-orders or G63's. Gotta imagine paying msrp for a factory order vs 40k dealer markup has some value to buyers.

----------


## you&me

> People were flipping Tesla reservations. I wonder how long (or is there already) until a grey market pops up for Rav4 pre-orders or G63's. Gotta imagine paying msrp for a factory order vs 40k dealer markup has some value to buyers.



 Allocation flipping at the high end of the market is as old as the high end market... It's far less common at more modest price points, but not unheard of - people were paying stupid premiums for PT Cruisers when they first launched  :ROFL!: 

Edit - fear not, Killy - MBUSA is cracking down on blatant flippers and the premium has dropped by about half in the last 6 weeks. Still bananas, but moving in the right direction I suppose. (And yes, that's in the US, but let's not pretend like Canada has its own, sustainable market, when it comes to stuff like this).

----------


## killramos

G market is nutso. Very depressing.

Hopefully it normalizes as they are a dream car of mine.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> G market is nutso. Very depressing.
> 
> Hopefully it normalizes as they are a dream car of mine.





Killy is Persian?¿!??!

----------


## ExtraSlow



----------


## killramos

> Killy is Persian?¿!??!



Actually I’m a waspy middle aged white woman. Keep up.

----------


## Buster

Killy is Mexican. I thought everyone knew this.

----------


## bjstare

> G market is nutso. Very depressing.
> 
> Hopefully it normalizes as they are a dream car of mine.



Don't be poor.

----------


## Buster

> Don't be poor.



always

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Killy is Mexican. I thought everyone knew this.



For the last time, he's Puerto Rican!

----------


## Buster

> For the last time, he's Puerto Rican!



same same

----------


## flipstah

> G market is nutso. Very depressing.
> 
> Hopefully it normalizes as they are a dream car of mine.



I thought you were buying that INEOS one?

----------


## killramos

> I thought you were buying that INEOS one?



If its ever available to order. Q4 this year looks like the earliest possible timeline.

----------


## shakalaka

I am told production of G63 which was initially halted for the entire year, but is now supposed to be starting after summer this year.

----------


## vengie

Finance rates on used cars are insane!

We wanted to buy a used van for the wife as baby #2 will be here in the next few weeks and I don't want to use cash.

Scrap that idea.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> Finance rates on used cars are insane!
> 
> We wanted to buy a used van for the wife as baby #2 will be here in the next few weeks and I don't want to use cash.
> 
> Scrap that idea.



Rates are irrelevant, financing is more sophisticated.

----------


## Shlade

> Finance rates on used cars are insane!
> 
> We wanted to buy a used van for the wife as baby #2 will be here in the next few weeks and I don't want to use cash.
> 
> Scrap that idea.



Arent used car finance rates usually 4.99 percent anyway if good credit? I dont think I've really ever seen lower than that ever.

----------


## jaylo

Borrow HELOC or pay cash for used vehicle.

Yeah you can afford the monthly but by the time you're done you've added 10-25% cost of the vehicle because of interest.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Borrow HELOC or pay cash for used vehicle.
> 
> Yeah you can afford the monthly but by the time you're done you've added 10-25% cost of the vehicle because of interest.



Even some of the new vehicles are like 3.99-4.99% now depending on what you buy I’ve noticed.

----------


## rage2

Mercedes actually has decent deals on used cars, specifically certified pre owned since they make that up front with the certification and extended warranty. 0.99% over 2 years. Doesn’t work if you don’t have the money and can’t afford that term.

----------


## JRSC00LUDE

> Arent used car finance rates usually 4.99 percent anyway if good credit? I dont think I've really ever seen lower than that ever.



Really? That's ridiculous. My unsecured LOC is less than that.

----------


## XylathaneGTR

> Finance rates on used cars are insane!
> We wanted to buy a used van for the wife as baby #2 will be here in the next few weeks and I don't want to use cash.
> Scrap that idea.



Just take a page from the book of 
@89coupe
; pay cash - no debt, no problem. Can't pay cash? Just work harder, you entitled degenerate!

if it's worked for him...it'll work for you too!

----------


## vengie

> Just take a page from the book of 
> @89coupe
> ; pay cash - no debt, no problem. Can't pay cash? Just work harder, you entitled degenerate!
> 
> if it's worked for him...it'll work for you too!



Lol!
I don't disagree.
Our SUV is paid off, but I don't want to spend $50k cash on a van, I'd rather finance that and invest.

Likely going to say screw it and continue having her drive the SUV another year or two until things calm down.

----------


## XylathaneGTR

That'd be my plan, too. SUV should be able to handle the equipment for both kids (congrats by the way), and hang tight till things (hopefully) normalize or calm down a bit

----------


## 90_Shelby

> Just take a page from the book of 
> @89coupe
> ; pay cash - no debt, no problem. Can't pay cash? Just work harder, you entitled degenerate!
> 
> if it's worked for him...it'll work for you too!



I am no finance major but I’m going to hazard a guess that their are far more people who have financial troubles associated with carrying too much debt, versus people who have financial troubles and no debt or money owed?

I have learned recently that carrying debt, is more sophisticated (cars primarily) but I’d love to be educated on how financial stability is increased by carrying a higher debt load.

I’m not suggesting that this relates to Vengie’s situation, this is a general inquiry as it’s been brought up a few times now.

Feel free to educate me or someone else can.

----------


## vengie

> I am no finance major but I’m going to hazard a guess that their are far more people who have financial troubles associated with carrying too much debt, versus people who have financial troubles and no debt or money owed?
> 
> I have learned recently that carrying debt, is more sophisticated (cars primarily) but I’d love to be educated on how financial stability is increased by carrying a higher debt load.
> 
> I’m not suggesting that this relates to Vengie’s situation, this is a general inquiry as it’s been brought up a few times now.
> 
> Feel free to educate me or someone else can.



Leveraging debt to make money, so long as your financial gains outweigh your interest rate.

----------


## XylathaneGTR

> I am no finance major but I’m going to hazard a guess that their are far more people who have financial troubles associated with carrying too much debt, versus people who have financial troubles and no debt or money owed?
> I have learned recently that carrying debt, is more sophisticated (cars primarily) but I’d love to be educated on how financial stability is increased by carrying a higher debt load.
> I’m not suggesting that this relates to Vengie’s situation, this is a general inquiry as it’s been brought up a few times now.
> Feel free to educate me or someone else can.



My comment was only meant to be a general shitpost at 89c's expense for my own amusement - that's about all I'm good for here.


Edit: but i'll bite. 
Yeah...on one hand there are people who take on more debt than then can service and it bites them. On the other hand are people who can sustainably manage the debt they take. Taking a finance loan on my car instead of paying for it in cash frees up cashflow for me to invest and earn a greater return than the cost of the financing; I come out ahead, versus saving and dumping that cash into car as a lumpsum. 

The counterpoint to that view is I could have not taken the car loan at all and instead invested everything and come out even more ahead over the same period of time. Very true, and that lifestyle could work for some people - but what's the impact to me of living like that? I didn't want to ride the bus, so I made the discretionary decision to take some debt which I assessed as being within my means to service, to get what I wanted. I don't mean to assert that this debt brings a greater degree of financial stability to my life, but it fit the value equation of my life and brings positive impacts to other areas of my life vs. hoarding all my shekels until I could buy the car as a lump sum. These are the decisions we make as consumers. 

I interned for a medical startup which avoided debt like the plague and grew only when they could internally sustain it. It was a very safe, stable way to grow the business and avoids the risk of growing unsustainably, or too quickly. They ended up getting bought out and the owners made a pile of money. One could argue they could have grown faster, or achieved a higher valuation, had they taken on some debt to fund growth. Could be true, could not be - but ultimately the proposition of debt didn't fit their value equation. These were the decisions they made as operators.

For one to say that 'all debt (aside from a mortgage) is the devil' and you just need to 'work really hard and grind for what you want' and 'if you have to take debt, you're entitled and just not working hard enough' and then flex superiority for living that way is a naïve simplification, and in my opinion not a very well-reasoned outlook - so i'll bust some balls over it for my own amusement.

----------


## Buster

> My comment was only meant to be a general shitpost at 89c's expense for my own amusement - that's about all I'm good for here.
> 
> 
> Edit: but i'll bite. 
> Yeah...on one hand there are people who take on more debt than then can service and it bites them. On the other hand are people who can sustainably manage the debt they take. Taking a finance loan on my car instead of paying for it in cash frees up cashflow for me to invest and earn a greater return than the cost of the financing; I come out ahead, versus saving and dumping that cash into car as a lumpsum. 
> 
> The counterpoint to that view is I could have not taken the car loan at all and instead invested everything and come out even more ahead over the same period of time. Very true, and that lifestyle could work for some people - but what's the impact to me of living like that? I didn't want to ride the bus, so I made the discretionary decision to take some debt which I assessed as being within my means to service, to get what I wanted. I don't mean to assert that this debt brings a greater degree of financial stability to my life, but it fit the value equation of my life and brings positive impacts to other areas of my life vs. hoarding all my shekels until I could buy the car as a lump sum. These are the decisions we make as consumers. 
> 
> I interned for a medical startup which avoided debt like the plague and grew only when they could internally sustain it. It was a very safe, stable way to grow the business and avoids the risk of growing unsustainably, or too quickly. They ended up getting bought out and the owners made a pile of money. One could argue they could have grown faster, or achieved a higher valuation, had they taken on some debt to fund growth. Could be true, could not be - but ultimately the proposition of debt didn't fit their value equation. These were the decisions they made as operators.
> ...



you have it right here.

A cash purchase or taking on debt amount to the same thing.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Maybe it's because I know so many poor people, but I think for people starting out, or with difficult finances, cash purchase and debt purchase are totally different. 

Let's face it, debt makes the most sense for people who don't need to use it. If the only way you can afford a new car is with a long loan, then you shouldn't be buying it with debt, or at all. If you have the freedom to just pay cash, then debt is a very valid option.

Although, I still think that most people would be better served by keeping their finances as simple as possible. That means fewer loans and fewer different investments.

- - - Updated - - -




> My comment was only meant to be a general shitpost.



 I like this energy.

----------


## flipstah

Cash is king if you have tons

----------


## Buster

> Maybe it's because I know so many poor people, but I think for people starting out, or with difficult finances, cash purchase and debt purchase are totally different. 
> 
> Let's face it, debt makes the most sense for people who don't need to use it. If the only way you can afford a new car is with a long loan, then you shouldn't be buying it with debt, or at all. If you have the freedom to just pay cash, then debt is a very valid option.
> 
> Although, I still think that most people would be better served by keeping their finances as simple as possible. That means fewer loans and fewer different investments.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> I like this energy.




Debt is simply creating an interest expense in exchange for using some "thing" for a period of time. So if it allows you to use that thing for two extra years, then who is to say it is less virtuous to do so? People might think spending XXX dollars is worth it for XXX time with that thing. This assumes it is a discretionary purchase, or a discretionary car upgrade, etc.

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## vengie

As always - Don't be poor.

----------


## ianmcc

I recall reading many many years ago the following advice:
Purchase appreciating assets and lease depreciating assets.
The current used car market is not sustainable but traditionally vehicles depreciate over time so from a business perspective you would have to earn quite a high ROR to offset depreciating assets.

----------


## Buster

> I recall reading many many years ago the following advice:
> Purchase appreciating assets and lease depreciating assets.
> The current used car market is not sustainable but traditionally vehicles depreciate over time so from a business perspective you would have to earn quite a high ROR to offset depreciating assets.



That advice has never made any sense.

----------


## jaylo

> As always - Don't be poor.



The only way to mitigate this is to be smart with whatever money you have, whether you start off as rich or poor.

Don't be lazy. Time is money. Stay away from social media, news, reality shows.
Invest early in appreciating assets over time (house, land, equities, guns, guitars, etc...)
Buy life insurance, RRSP, and pension plan
Find the highest rate of return on your savings
Pay for little to no interest when borrowing, make banks fight for your business

----------


## Buster

> The only way to mitigate this is to be smart with whatever money you have, whether you start off as rich or poor.
> 
> Don't be lazy. Time is money. Stay away from social media, news, reality shows.
> Invest early in appreciating assets over time (house, land, equities, guns, guitars, etc...)
> Buy life insurance, RRSP, and pension plan
> Find the highest rate of return on your savings
> Pay for little to no interest when borrowing, make banks fight for your business



I say buy low and sell high

----------


## jaylo

> I say buy low and sell high



Same idea. Time in the market will pay off eventually.

----------


## BavarianBeast

You can pretty much but any supercar right now, take delivery sell it and profit. It’s a pretty easy equation

----------


## jaylo

> You can pretty much but any supercar right now, take delivery sell it and profit. It’s a pretty easy equation




Not so smart to buy a depreciating asset... Unless you are willing to take the risk.

Plus, you have to finance. You'd be under your initial investment and barely making a profit, paying for interest rates and auto insurance.

One scratch, curb or dent will depreciate the vehicle.

What if the market corrects itself all of a sudden?

Now you are stuck with a depreciating asset.

Are you from Deerfoot Suzuki?

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## Buster

> You can pretty much but any supercar right now, take delivery sell it and profit. It’s a pretty easy equation



Well, you can't buy them is the problem.

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## jaylo

https://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/per...alculator.html

Financing a Tacoma TRD Pro at 3.79% will add on $6,700 interest on top of what you agreed to pay.

----------


## you&me

> Well, you can't buy them is the problem.



Crap... And here I was just about to head out to buy up some 992 GT3s and SP3 Daytonas. You mean to tell me the cars that are all selling for over MSRP aren't readily available?  :ROFL!:

----------


## Buster

> Crap... And here I was just about to head out to buy up some 992 GT3s and SP3 Daytonas. You mean to tell me the cars that are all selling for over MSRP aren't readily available?



I had placed an order for a couple of F8's and a GT3, but they haven't shown up yet. Come to think of it, I haven't heard back from the dealer on my emails.

----------


## BavarianBeast

> Not so smart to buy a depreciating asset... Unless you are willing to take the risk.
> 
> Plus, you have to finance. You'd be under your initial investment and barely making a profit, paying for interest rates and auto insurance.
> 
> One scratch, curb or dent will depreciate the vehicle.
> 
> What if the market corrects itself all of a sudden?
> 
> Now you are stuck with a depreciating asset.
> ...



I’ve bought both of mine in cash. Sold the first one for a nice gain after driving for 3 years. Second one won’t be any different.

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## Buster

> I’ve bought both of mine in cash. Sold the first one for a nice gain after driving for 3 years. Second one won’t be any different.



Love to hear it, but you were lucky. It's not really a strategy.

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## BavarianBeast

Luck doesn’t have anything to do with my car strategies. Pretty much everything I’ve boughten in the last 7 years has appreciated.

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## gretz

Not in buying multiple Porsche territory yet, but found a great deal at a dealership for the first time in my life lol. A solid $6k less than private sales with considerable less kms. It seems with the crazy used car market, dealerships almost make sense. And couple that with current gas prices, I’m basically driving a free new car with warranty for what my 08 gs350 used to guzzle

----------


## Doozer

> Finance rates on used cars are insane!
> 
> We wanted to buy a used van for the wife as baby #2 will be here in the next few weeks and I don't want to use cash.
> 
> Scrap that idea.



Funny, we're in exactly the opposite boat. Want to sell our van and pick up a used SUV for the wife since the kids have outgrown the van (mostly). The prices are ridiculous. Want to ride it out but not sure we have the timeline for it.

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## tonytiger55

> I am no finance major but Im going to hazard a guess that their are far more people who have financial troubles associated with carrying too much debt, versus people who have financial troubles and no debt or money owed?
> 
> I have learned recently that carrying debt, is more sophisticated (cars primarily) but Id love to be educated on how financial stability is increased by carrying a higher debt load.
> 
> Im not suggesting that this relates to Vengies situation, this is a general inquiry as its been brought up a few times now.
> 
> Feel free to educate me or someone else can.



 
@XylathaneGTR
 made a good post. But I wanted to add to it. 

The problem I have with financing a car and using saved money to invest only works if the assumption is we all have the same starting point. In a communist society maybe. In the real world we don't. 
I purchased a zonda beater for cash when I came to Canada. Then I saved and bought a place to live. It allowed me to solve that problem. When I came to Canada I cosidered buying a brand new Toyota Corrola. That would have put me back a few steps in buying a place. Sovling the problem of a property would have taken longer. 
To get to that place where one can finance a car and be ok takes a bit of work. Now I purchased a brand new zonda last year. The market is wonky. If I bought a used car that was 3-4 years old. With financing etc. it works out to be almost the same as a new vehicle. Then there is no warranty, major sevicing is required. Older vehicle prices are wonky. A 2010 CRV would have been around 9k. Its going for $13k almost. With the current state of the market, most are junk. So financing a new vehicle solved that problem. 

So a better question is what problem is one solving by financing a car in their overal life goals and financial profile? People don't have the same starting point. Ive had clients manipulated in buying a new vehicle. But they are in debit with pretty bad interest rates. They are just working to pay the debit. In other scenarios I insisted on my ex girlfriend to purchase a new vehicle. Why? if we were going to have kids. I don't want her or the kids in a vehicle with old saftey technology from 2007. If she got into a accidnet, the financial burden of physio, healthcare, opportunity costs get impacted. 
So if debit used to solve problems or potential problems, that is what creates stability. So it is a paradigm shift on how to view debit and money.

----------


## D'z Nutz

> The only way to mitigate this is to be smart with whatever money you have, whether you start off as rich or poor.
> 
> Don't be lazy. Time is money. Stay away from social media, news, reality shows.
> Invest early in appreciating assets over time (house, land, equities, guns, guitars, etc...)
> Buy life insurance, RRSP, and pension plan
> Find the highest rate of return on your savings
> Pay for little to no interest when borrowing, make banks fight for your business



You used to have a little, now you have a lot. You're still jaylo from the block.

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## riander5

Vehicle prices are messed, had to travel to Vancouver yesterday to find a reasonable deal. Here is what I was looking at - guess the car if you want

Calgary - 2013, 85,000 kms, one set of wheels and an undiagnosed CEL - *$31,000*
Edmonton - 2017, 80,000 kms, one set of wheels with summer tires on, imported from quebec - *$36,000*
Saskatoon - 2017, 95,000 kms, one set of wheels - *$36,000*
Vancouver - 2016, 57,000 kms, two sets of wheels with summer / winter tires, one $800 rear bumper mishap, - *$35,000*

Now what to do with removing this god awful front license plate holder....

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## Xtrema

> To get to that place where one can finance a car and be ok takes a bit of work.



Immigrant is a bit tougher because lack of credit history. What's worse than bad credit is no credit at all.

My cousin has to pay the new Venza cash. And the mortgage requires 30% down payment.

----------


## RT16V

> Just take a page from the book of 
> @89coupe
> ; pay cash - no debt, no problem. Can't pay cash? Just work harder, you entitled degenerate!
> 
> if it's worked for him...it'll work for you too!



Fun fact, 89coupe knows whats up on this one. You missed the important part, cant pay cash, lower your expectations - while working harder.over time, win!

----------


## killramos

That’s the weirdest phrasing of Don’t Be Poor i have ever seen

----------


## Buster

> That’s the weirdest phrasing of Don’t Be Poor i have ever seen



Poor, don't be it.

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## jaylo

A lot of kids these days just want to get rich quickly with instant gratification. The long-term strategies are almost non-existent.


I had a convo with my friend, back in Mar. 2021 wanted to buy a $6K rooftop tent for his Jeep and I advised against it and told him to invest it in $AAPL at $119.

He didn't invest during that time. Not only he didn't have any gains but he has to pay a bit more for the tent because of inflation.

I had a co-worker that dabbles in penny stocks daily, he thinks he is the next Warren Buffet. After 4 years, his net worth is the same.



I don't want to sound like an old man...

I had to ride a bicycle to work and school, go back to school for the second time, which drained my savings for about 2 years with no income, just to hit a 6 figure salary.

These days, people want to hit 6 figures straight out of college/university.

----------


## tonytiger55

> Immigrant is a bit tougher because lack of credit history. What's worse than bad credit is no credit at all.
> 
> My cousin has to pay the new Venza cash. And the mortgage requires 30% down payment.



When I used to meet to clients that were immigrants. I used to break down the process. I'd tell them *do not* buy a brandnew car. Dealers have ways of getting around the creditscore issue. I'd advise them to buy a older car with a reliable engine and drive that for 3-4 years (in my case the dam car would not die and lasted 9 years :ROFL!: ). Use the time to save for a downpayment. During that time the credit score will build. Not only that there are immigrant programs that allow immigrants to get a mortgage. For example in my case I was not full time and only on contract. The bank would not issue me a mortgage. There was some sort of new immigrant program that allowed my history of rental payments and cellphone bill payments to get around that (it saved my arse to be honest).

The problem today is where does one go to buy a old vehicle while they save for a downpayment? So many immigrants over the past ten years went and bought the new vehicle, lived in a rental basement. Years later they are still in the basement rental and still making payments on the car. 
I not really sure what the answer is with the car market being so wonky.

----------


## XylathaneGTR

> Fun fact, 89coupe knows what’s up on this one. You missed the important part, cant pay cash, lower your expectations - while working harder…….over time, win!



If it gets you to the Aspen 7.2 faster, i'm all for it, brother.

----------


## vengie

Just listed the wife's vehicle and it's absolutely insane how many scammers there are these days! 

The most prominent being the "I need you to send me a vehicle check from xxxxxxx.com website" 

For those of you who aren't aware, they send you to their website to purchase a report, they take your payment and you don't get a report. 

CarFax is still king.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Just listed the wife's vehicle and it's absolutely insane how many scammers there are these days! 
> 
> The most prominent being the "I need you to send me a vehicle check from xxxxxxx.com website" 
> 
> For those of you who aren't aware, they send you to their website to purchase a report, they take your payment and you don't get a report. 
> 
> CarFax is still king.



That’s a credit card theft scam.

----------


## killramos

https://globalnews.ca/news/8613777/l...n-man-suv/amp/

Well this sounds sketchy. Dealerships putting liens on vehicles and refusing to clear them when paid off to prevent flipping.

----------


## jutes

> https://globalnews.ca/news/8613777/l...n-man-suv/amp/
> 
> Well this sounds sketchy. Dealerships putting liens on vehicles and refusing to clear them when paid off to prevent flipping.



Not really, it's to prevent flipping to an exporter to the US.

Also $100k for a GMC SUV lawl.

----------


## killramos

> Not really, it's to prevent flipping to an exporter to the US.
> 
> Also $100k for a GMC SUV lawl.



I’m told paying a hundred grand for domestics is totally reasonable these days.

It’s still sketch. Not what liens are designed for my guess is the dealer is going to get a pp slap over it.

----------


## Buster

> I’m told paying a hundred grand for domestics is totally reasonable these days.
> 
> It’s still sketch. Not what liens are designed for my guess is the dealer is going to get a pp slap over it.



Don't sign contracts without reading them. What a dumbass.

----------


## killramos

> Don't sign contracts without reading them. What a dumbass.



I’m saying I doubt these liens are a legal way to enforce that contract.

----------


## G-ZUS

> Not really, it's to prevent flipping to an exporter to the US.
> 
> Also $100k for a GMC SUV lawl.



Yep, buddy is on the no sell list as he bought a Tahoe before and flipped it to the states. Buddy is just mad he got cock blocked

----------


## jutes

> Yep, buddy is on the no sell list as he bought a Tahoe before and flipped it to the states. Buddy is just mad he got cock blocked



Off with his head.

----------


## Ukyo8

> https://globalnews.ca/news/8613777/l...n-man-suv/amp/
> 
> Well this sounds sketchy. Dealerships putting liens on vehicles and refusing to clear them when paid off to prevent flipping.



The lien is totally uncalled for, no way to justify that.
But the guy sounds like a typical dumbass that doesn't read what he's signing, then cries about it when he can't make a few grand re-selling it to an exporter.

----------


## killramos

> The lien is totally uncalled for, no way to justify that.
> But the guy sounds like a typical dumbass that doesn't read what he's signing, then cries about it when he can't make a few grand re-selling it to an exporter.



Totally agree on both counts.

----------


## pheoxs

Dude should've probably read but I also don't understand how this is legal. Can a dealership refuse to accept repayment for the 1$ lien? I don't see how that's legal under the consumer protection act.

----------


## Buster

> Dude should've probably read but I also don't understand how this is legal. Can a dealership refuse to accept repayment for the 1$ lien? I don't see how that's legal under the consumer protection act.



It depends on the wording of the contract.

If the contract requires that you settle an additional amount to discharge the registration, then I don't see how you would get around it.

You don't get to discharge your lease just by paying the cap cost. You don't get to discharge your mortgage without paying the penalty. 

I have no issue with what the dealership is doing here.

----------


## pheoxs

> It depends on the wording of the contract.
> 
> If the contract requires that you settle an additional amount to discharge the registration, then I don't see how you would get around it.
> 
> You don't get to discharge your lease just by paying the cap cost. You don't get to discharge your mortgage without paying the penalty. 
> 
> I have no issue with what the dealership is doing here.



That's fair but at the same time there has to be some kind of clause to terminate it. It can't be a lien for 12 months with no possibility of clearing it. There is 0$ owing on the vehicle itself, I don't see how it's legal to not allow someone to sell their property. Unless it was sold as a 12 month lease fully paid up front with 1$ residual due at the end I guess.

Just because it's in a contract doesn't make it legal. There are plenty of rules regarding debt protection and consumer rights in Alberta.

----------


## Buster

> That's fair but at the same time there has to be some kind of clause to terminate it. It can't be a lien for 12 months with no possibility of clearing it. There is 0$ owing on the vehicle itself, I don't see how it's legal to not allow someone to sell their property.



If you sign a contract to have a registration against your asset for 12 months, then why not?

----------


## killramos

Went and had some awkward lease return conversations with Lexus this morning.

Lexus seems to have gone full VW on the NX, stuck all the controls into the touch screen interface which even the salesman could hardly work. Took my wife 5 minutes to turn off the heated steering wheel.

Oh and they also put these weird new touch buttons in the car to open the doors. And proceeded to lock my wife in the car 3 separate times, once because the car died on us and we had to engage the emergency release.

All to insult me with a few grand equity over my buyout to try and get me in a lower trim of car that has inflated by 15 grand over the last one I bought.

The hope effectively drained out of their face when I asked what date they need my buyout amount on lol

----------


## Sentry

I hate anti-button interiors. I understand putting nav and infotainment on the screen, but climate controls and volume knob should be tactile since those are fiddled with the most, and usually blindly while driving.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> I hate anti-button interiors. I understand putting nav and infotainment on the screen, but climate controls and volume knob should be tactile since those are fiddled with the most, and usually blindly while driving.



I strongly agree. I don't see how this methodology passed a safety review.

----------


## bjstare

> Went and had some awkward lease return conversations with Lexus this morning.
> 
> Lexus seems to have gone full VW on the NX, stuck all the controls into the touch screen interface which even the salesman could hardly work. Took my wife 5 minutes to turn off the heated steering wheel.
> 
> Oh and they also put these weird new touch buttons in the car to open the doors. And proceeded to lock my wife in the car 3 separate times, once because the car died on us and we had to engage the emergency release.
> 
> All to insult me with a few grand equity over my buyout to try and get me in a lower trim of car that has inflated by 15 grand over the last one I bought.
> 
> The hope effectively drained out of their face when I asked what date they need my buyout amount on lol



Does the new NX have the climate concierge function? The LC has it, and it works perfectly. It handles the hvac/heated or cooled seats/heated steering wheel/air scarf perfectly. It eliminates the need for any buttons aside from temp control (which has a hard button). Anyone that complains about the heated seat function being three menus deep is just being obtuse, as it’s a moot point.

----------


## killramos

> Does the new NX have the climate concierge function? The LC has it, and it works perfectly. It handles the hvac/heated or cooled seats/heated steering wheel/air scarf perfectly. It eliminates the need for any buttons aside from temp control (which has a hard button). Anyone that complains about the heated seat function being three menus deep is just being obtuse, as it’s a moot point.



If it had it it didn’t come up.

I stayed out of it and just hung out in the back seat. This car is my wife’s choice I wasn’t weighing in aside from times the salesman said something that I knew was inaccurate, and for the final dealership Marth snow job. 

You say obtuse. I say “women”.

Oh it also had weirdo Lexus touch pads on the steering wheel. I’m sure that would go well long term.

It was actually a better “car” in every way. They just piled in a bunch of unessecary electronic crap that Lexus sucks at that ruined the initial impressions for us.

----------


## bjstare

That really sucks. Touchpads/screens <<< buttons.

----------


## mr2mike

> Yep, buddy is on the no sell list as he bought a Tahoe before and flipped it to the states. Buddy is just mad he got cock blocked



This is because the manufacturer has these rules. If a dealership starts selling to flippers or exporters, the dealership risks losing the name which they sell under.
Salesmen need to do a good check to make sure they don't sell to an exporter. Guess this lien circumvents a lot of these checks.

----------


## Shlade

Im trying to find a clean foxbody mustang for a summer toy. Theyre now worth 15-40k. So thats pretty neat. 

Finding a clean notch back is like finding a needle in a haystack. Gonna have to pay crackhead money

----------


## riander5

> Im trying to find a clean foxbody mustang for a summer toy. Theyre now worth 15-40k. So thats pretty neat. 
> 
> Finding a clean notch back is like finding a needle in a haystack. Gonna have to pay crackhead money



Thats insane.. id just buy a 2015/2016 GT and call it a day haha

----------


## XylathaneGTR

> Went and had some awkward lease return conversations with Lexus this morning.
> Lexus seems to have gone full VW on the NX, stuck all the controls into the touch screen interface which even the salesman could hardly work. Took my wife 5 minutes to turn off the heated steering wheel.






> If it had it it didn’t come up.
> Oh it also had weirdo Lexus touch pads on the steering wheel. I’m sure that would go well long term.
> It was actually a better “car” in every way. They just piled in a bunch of unessecary electronic crap that Lexus sucks at that ruined the initial impressions for us.



So if I read your take correctly, Lexus somehow managed to make their clunky touch-pad infotainment system _worse_ on the update? This is disheartening news (my wife has an NX300, probably going to get another lexus after this one).

----------


## killramos

Infotainment is better because it’s a huge touch screen. But a net negative because they took all the Hutton controls thaT did work and stuck them in the touch screen.

----------


## brucebanner

> Im trying to find a clean foxbody mustang for a summer toy. Theyre now worth 15-40k. So thats pretty neat. 
> 
> Finding a clean notch back is like finding a needle in a haystack. Gonna have to pay crackhead money



I look for them every so often, I shouldn't of sold the last one I had.

----------


## rage2

> Infotainment is better because it’s a huge touch screen. But a net negative because they took all the Hutton controls thaT did work and stuck them in the touch screen.



I have the same problem on my new car, and it's a refresh.

MB decided to remove a row of buttons that wasn't even aesthetically unpleasant (its semi hidden behind the steering wheel). One of these buttons is the suspension lift button, which one uses a lot to clear curbs and silly SUV speed bumps. They kept the centre console buttons beside the touch pad, but those buttons are mimic'd on the now standard AMG Drive unit controls on the steering wheel. So all 6 of those buttons are redundant, and could've been used for suspension lift. The non AMG models that have air suspension has the suspension lift right there in the same place. Instead, suspension lift is buried under menus, and at best 2 button presses away. Same thing with the climate control sync, can only do it with the UI, which is at least 2 presses away and eye focus off the road. Even tho there are buttons that could be better served for it.

Baffling design decisions, make me want to quit my career and work in Ux design for car companies. It's not like it's bad to move some things to a digital UI, but they should not be commonly used features, or things that you want to manipulate while driving to take focus away.

----------


## Gman.45

> Went and had some awkward lease return conversations with Lexus this morning.
> 
> Lexus seems to have gone full VW on the NX, stuck all the controls into the touch screen interface which even the salesman could hardly work. Took my wife 5 minutes to turn off the heated steering wheel.
> 
> Oh and they also put these weird new touch buttons in the car to open the doors. And proceeded to lock my wife in the car 3 separate times, once because the car died on us and we had to engage the emergency release.
> 
> All to insult me with a few grand equity over my buyout to try and get me in a lower trim of car that has inflated by 15 grand over the last one I bought.
> 
> The hope effectively drained out of their face when I asked what date they need my buyout amount on lol



Similar opinions, the infotain in our LC500 is one of the very few things I/we dislike about the car. I also got a bunch of BS from the dealer about turning our leased car in, I'm very, very tempted to pay the buyout and keep it, as I don't hate the car, in fact I like it, more than my missus who's car it mainly is. We just have a pretty regular sched of trying new vehicles, life is short and all that.

The new NX is a fantastic vehicle IMO, the 450 hybrid is something I'd seriously consider if I was in the market for an SUV type thing, it'd be number 1 on the list. Even if the infotainment is still Lexus suckage. I don't get why they do this, VW too, every GTI/R Golf review has had more time spent on how terrible the infotainment and controls are than everything else about the cars combined. 

What dealership was this at Kilaramos?

----------


## 90_Shelby

> I have the same problem on my new car, and it's a refresh.
> 
> MB decided to remove a row of buttons that wasn't even aesthetically unpleasant (its semi hidden behind the steering wheel). One of these buttons is the suspension lift button, which one uses a lot to clear curbs and silly SUV speed bumps. They kept the centre console buttons beside the touch pad, but those buttons are mimic'd on the now standard AMG Drive unit controls on the steering wheel. So all 6 of those buttons are redundant, and could've been used for suspension lift. The non AMG models that have air suspension has the suspension lift right there in the same place. Instead, suspension lift is buried under menus, and at best 2 button presses away. Same thing with the climate control sync, can only do it with the UI, which is at least 2 presses away and eye focus off the road. Even tho there are buttons that could be better served for it.
> 
> Baffling design decisions, make me want to quit my career and work in Ux design for car companies. It's not like it's bad to move some things to a digital UI, but they should not be commonly used features, or things that you want to manipulate while driving to take focus away.



But what about the symmetry of the controls?  :Wink:

----------


## gpomp

> But what about the symmetry of the controls?



That only applies to BMW X5's and 2 series.

----------


## killramos

> That only applies to BMW X5's and 2 series.



Jokes on you. BMW’s interiors are explicitly asymmetrical by design.

- - - Updated - - -




> Similar opinions, the infotain in our LC500 is one of the very few things I/we dislike about the car. I also got a bunch of BS from the dealer about turning our leased car in, I'm very, very tempted to pay the buyout and keep it, as I don't hate the car, in fact I like it, more than my missus who's car it mainly is. We just have a pretty regular sched of trying new vehicles, life is short and all that.
> 
> The new NX is a fantastic vehicle IMO, the 450 hybrid is something I'd seriously consider if I was in the market for an SUV type thing, it'd be number 1 on the list. Even if the infotainment is still Lexus suckage. I don't get why they do this, VW too, every GTI/R Golf review has had more time spent on how terrible the infotainment and controls are than everything else about the cars combined. 
> 
> What dealership was this at Kilaramos?



Lexus of Calgary

Don’t get me wrong. I like the NX well enough, I’ve bought 2 for my wife, and it’s absolutely a better car like I said. I just get turned off by hiding all the cars controls in the iPad. No way my wife is every going to investigate that shit.

The 450 plug in hybrid was explicitly quoted as unobtainable. We tried out the 350 hybrid and it was alright.

----------


## rage2

> But what about the symmetry of the controls?



You bet I’ll push for that haha.

----------


## OTown

Glad I am not the only one who likes the buttons more than the infotainment 'go through 10 steps while driving' that seems to keep getting pushed on new vehs.

----------


## spikerS

Found an interesting article about new vehicle pricing and whatnot. It states that approximately 80% of people paid over MSRP for a new vehicle in January to a tune of about $750 on average. It isn't clear if this is reflective of purchases only in the states, or if Canada is included in this as well.



https://www.edmunds.com/industry/pre...o-edmunds.html

----------


## jutes

Suckers.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

Alfa makes a $50k USD car?

----------


## ExtraSlow

Alfa still exists?

----------


## Cagare

> Alfa makes a $50k USD car?



Fiat is marking up vehicles?

So is Chrysler?

----------


## shakalaka

The Giulia's (non-QV) are $60K-$65K+. The QV is $100K plus.

I know the hate Alfa gets but I will say this though, try driving either the Giulia or the Stelvio, even if they are base, if the driving feel of the car doesn't blow your fuckin mind compared to the similar level rivals (c class, 3 series etc.), then I will give you 5 bux (monopoly).

----------


## vengie

End of an era! 
The fit is officially sold... For way more than I expected.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Fits have incredible resale. Even before this market went crazy.

----------


## vengie

Paid $3500 for it. 
Drove for three years and ~50,000km. 

Sold for $4800. 

Win.

----------


## killramos

> Alfa makes a $50k USD car?



Barely. See table

----------


## 03ozwhip

> Paid $3500 for it. 
> Drove for three years and ~50,000km. 
> 
> Sold for $4800. 
> 
> Win.



Who's the man now?!?!

----------


## tcon

Imagine paying over MSRP for a KIA

----------


## tonytiger55

> Paid $3500 for it. 
> Drove for three years and ~50,000km. 
> 
> Sold for $4800. 
> 
> Win.



Whooaaaa.... :crazy nut:

----------


## rage2

Chip prices spiking up again in supply chain because of Russia invasion. Good times and good luck.

----------


## 88CRX

Was hoping to upgrade our savage fit later this year but might just have to Diamond hand it and keep it haha.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Was hoping to upgrade our savage fit later this year but might just have to Diamond hand it and keep it haha.



If you sell a fit, you call me first. But diamond hands is the right move.

----------


## mr2mike

> Paid $3500 for it. 
> Drove for three years and ~50,000km. 
> 
> Sold for $4800. 
> 
> Win.



Did you cut the cat out before sale?

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

Ferrari of Alberta has a couple of berserk-rare cars, right now for 2022 pricing.

The 1998 456 Modificata with 6-speed is a high water mark in their proper GT car history with Pininfarina. Offered at about 40% above its price a couple years ago.

The 599 SA Aperta might very well be one of 80... Yours for $1.7MM
10 years old and <1,000km on it.

----------


## Buster

> Ferrari of Alberta has a couple of berserk-rare cars, right now for 2022 pricing.
> 
> The 1998 456 Modificata with 6-speed is a high water mark in their proper GT car history with Pininfarina. Offered at about 40% above its price a couple years ago.
> 
> The 599 SA Aperta might very well be one of 80... Yours for $1.7MM
> 10 years old and <1,000km on it.



Smart people are dumping their cars on the dumb money in the market right now. Good on them.

----------


## gretz

Just sold my rebuilt status 08 gs350 with 250000kms on it for what I bought it for 4 years / 90k ago…. And picked up a 2 year old civic with 20k on it for $20000. First time in my life a dealership was cheaper than private sale. My gas savings more than pays for the car, gotta crunch those numbers in this crazy day and age

----------


## mr2mike

2021 AMG GT Black series.
$336K sticker
$500K on BaT and probably going higher.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...ign=2022-03-06

----------


## jutes

Unloaded my camaro last week, made off like a bandit after putting on 20k kms in two years. Going to hold the fort with a sub-$5k point A-B utility vehicle. My desire to own sporty vehicles is deteriorating.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> Unloaded my camaro last week, made off like a bandit after putting on 20k kms in two years. Going to hold the fort with a sub-$5k point A-B utility vehicle. My desire to own sporty vehicles is deteriorating.



A Ridgeline will be the perfect replacement.

----------


## jutes

> A Ridgeline will be the perfect replacement.



For sub-$5k? Do such unicorns exist?

----------


## M.alex

With rising interest rates and a recession looming what's the chance people are going to start to have to firesale their leveraged up lamborghinis this year? 

I want to buy a Diablo VT roadster but not at these damn prices.

----------


## Buster

> With rising interest rates and a recession looming what's the chance people are going to start to have to firesale their leveraged up lamborghinis this year? 
> 
> I want to buy a Diablo VT roadster but not at these damn prices.



the crash is coming. But like any crash, it's hard to tell when.

----------


## mr2mike

Best time to buy is now. Like real estate. Lambos are the same.

----------


## ExtraSlow

The crash doesn't hit each individual equally. It barely touches the real rich, or the truly poor. So your target is people in the sorta-upper who had massive leverage? I don't think you'll see a broad range of affordable supercars.

----------


## Rocket1k78

> The crash doesn't hit each individual equally. It barely touches the real rich, or the truly poor. So your target is people in the sorta-upper who had massive leverage? I don't think you'll see a broad range of affordable supercars.



Yeah i doubt you'll see a ton of exotics being fire sold if/when the crash happens, the fake rich will just return the leases on them. If you want cheap property or an F150 then yeah  :ROFL!:

----------


## Buster

> The crash doesn't hit each individual equally. It barely touches the real rich, or the truly poor. So your target is people in the sorta-upper who had massive leverage? I don't think you'll see a broad range of affordable supercars.



so prices can only go up dramatically, they can never come down dramatically?

----------


## Shlade

> so prices can only go up dramatically, they can never come down dramatically?



I dont really think used car prices will come down too drastically for a while longer. I think once we truly start feeling the pinch of inflated gas prices we will start seeing vehicle prices come down.

----------


## killramos

> so prices can only go up dramatically, they can never come down dramatically?



The rich always get richer

----------


## ExtraSlow

> so prices can only go up dramatically, they can never come down dramatically?



depends what you mean by dramatic. But my prediction is that the used supercar market isn't coming down far enough for people who were previously priced out of the market to enter the market.

----------


## M.alex

> Yeah i doubt you'll see a ton of exotics being fire sold if/when the crash happens, the fake rich will just return the leases on them. If you want cheap property or an F150 then yeah



not expecting fire sale, but hoping for more reasonable. $350-450k for a Diablo no bueno. $200k much better.

----------


## Buster

> depends what you mean by dramatic. But my prediction is that the used supercar market isn't coming down far enough for people who were previously priced out of the market to enter the market.



There was a sharp uptick in demand for supercars sometime in early 2021 (my internal clock is fucked, so might be wrong). Monetary inflation aside, you're suggesting that the supercar market will see this dramatically increased demand stick around indefinitely. I don't see any fundamental reason why people have a dramatically higher desire for supercars right now compared to historical norms. These markets are fickle. At some point we'll see inventory start to build.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> not expecting fire sale, but hoping for more reasonable. $350-450k for a Diablo no bueno. $200k much better.



So a 50% drop? Good luck.

----------


## BavarianBeast

I’ll take a mint Diablo for $350k

----------


## M.alex

> I’ll take a mint Diablo for $350k



Then why didn't you buy the silver Diablo from Exit Wounds that was for sale on Autotrader for over a year?

----------


## you&me

> Ill take a mint Diablo for $350k



Please buy this - https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/l...age&cldtidx=12

----------


## ianmcc

Any advice in dealing with a Mercedes dealership about having them buy out our lease early at (hopefully) an amount greater than the residual?
Car is a 2019 CLA250 (remember the Car2Go lease blowout?)
Would consider just buying it out and selling it privately but I am hoping to avoid dealing with the buyout and selling privately; also want to beat the flood of 24 month lease returns in May. 
I think a lot of people may have the same idea but in all honesty I just am too busy to deal with everything.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Call them.

----------


## killramos

> Call them.



What a bizarre concept.

I bet they have email too

----------


## ExtraSlow

I mean, I'm betting that they have zero interest in acquiring yours mere months before a "flood" of lease returns. But I don't understand leases to start with.

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> Any advice in dealing with a Mercedes dealership about having them buy out our lease early at (hopefully) an amount greater than the residual?
> Car is a 2019 CLA250 (remember the Car2Go lease blowout?)
> Would consider just buying it out and selling it privately but I am hoping to avoid dealing with the buyout and selling privately; also want to beat the flood of 24 month lease returns in May. 
> I think a lot of people may have the same idea but in all honesty I just am too busy to deal with everything.



How do you avoid the buyout and selling it privately? I dont understand that concept?!

----------


## ianmcc

I already have a meeting on Friday.
I don't want to deal with paying the residual then dealing with selling it privately. Got way too much on the go.

----------


## mr2mike

> I already have a meeting on Friday.
> I don't want to deal with paying the residual then dealing with selling it privately. Got way too much on the go.



Wrong thread.

https://forums.beyond.ca/threads/415...led-brag/page3

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

You could just list it and meet the potential buyer at the dealer/bank and have them pay out of the residual and the difference to you…

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> I already have a meeting on Friday.
> I don't want to deal with paying the residual then dealing with selling it privately. Got way too much on the go.



Sell it back to the dealer.

----------


## ianmcc

The best case scenario.
I am also having their appraisers look at the car.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> The best case scenario.
> I am also having their appraisers look at the car.



*Car is actually CLS63...

----------


## killramos

CLS63*S*

You heathen!

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Any advice in dealing with a Mercedes dealership about having them buy out our lease early at (hopefully) an amount greater than the residual?
> Car is a 2019 CLA250 (remember the Car2Go lease blowout?)
> Would consider just buying it out and selling it privately but I am hoping to avoid dealing with the buyout and selling privately; also want to beat the flood of 24 month lease returns in May. 
> I think a lot of people may have the same idea but in all honesty I just am too busy to deal with everything.



I sold mine last week. Got $3g. Needed windshield, tires and a cracked rim fixed.

Edit: to clarify, sold directly to the dealership. So they paid out the lease, and I got $3g. The car needed the above things to make it "certified used". Otherwise the car was in great shape, and had 50k kms on it.

----------


## ianmcc

> *Car is actually CLS63...



I saw that video on snowcat's YT channel!

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> CLS63*S*
> 
> You heathen!



Adding S's helps them follow the Nissan nomenclature system of complete, meaningless nonsense.

----------


## killramos

I hate you

----------


## ThePenIsMightier



----------


## vengie

The penis has become the ultimate shitposter. 

#muchrespect

----------


## Shlade

Trying to find a summer toy still after i decided to ditch the 11' mustang i was going to buy. 

The amount of shit boxes that are priced insanely is making me want to pull my fucking hair out. I may actually need to take a break from kijiji and auto trader for a few weeks to cool off. 

Saw a corvette, absolute shit box. Watched the guy wipe the car with a bath towel to add to his hazy paint job. Youd expect better from Grand Sport owners... I think? 

Went and saw a couple foxbodies which were also heaps of shit. Saw a 70 Nova which looked like a dream in pics and was a bondo bucket in person. 

May just end up being another carless summer.

----------


## Tik-Tok

@ianmcc
 What did Downtown offer you?

----------


## ianmcc

Just $500 plus no more payments and return the security deposit. Mostly I wanted to not worry about nickle and dome on the "deficiencies" they were going to drum up.

----------


## ganesh

> Just $500 plus no more payments and return the security deposit. Mostly I wanted to not worry about nickle and dome on the "deficiencies" they were going to drum up.



What is the buy back on the vehicle?
If you don't want to post it here , you can DM me. Someone I know is looking for a used vehicle and I can pass the info to them.

Just to be clear I am not asking to sell the vehicle at buy back value, if you want to sell it privately then let me know what you want with the related details ( KM, condition etc) and I will pass it to them.

----------


## ExtraSlow

This forum does gave a marketplace section where some people post vehicles for sale. About 7% fewer retards than Kijiji.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Just $500 plus no more payments and return the security deposit. Mostly I wanted to not worry about nickle and dome on the "deficiencies" they were going to drum up.



If you haven't signed anything yet. Go to another dealership. Like I said on the previous page, I got $3g (plus the two payments I had left)

----------


## killramos

Recently went through this with Lexus.

After digging through their Marth around gst net offs etc. they really weren’t offering me much for my NX despite they exclaiming how much they wanted my car.

They got real sour when I exercised my buyout option, not only depriving them of selling my car but also to not buy a new one from them.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Recently went through this with Lexus.
> 
> After digging through their Marth around gst net offs etc. they really weren’t offering me much for my NX despite they exclaiming how much they wanted my car.
> 
> They got real sour when I *excelsior’s* my buyout option, not only depriving them of selling my car but also to not buy a new one from them.



Ah yes, the old Excelsior Clause strikes again!

----------


## killramos

> Ah yes, the old Excelsior Clause strikes again!



Fixed to be far less epic

----------


## Buster

> Recently went through this with Lexus.
> 
> After digging through their Marth around gst net offs etc. they really weren’t offering me much for my NX despite they exclaiming how much they wanted my car.
> 
> They got real sour when I exercised my buyout option, not only depriving them of selling my car but also to not buy a new one from them.



I bet that felt good

----------


## killramos

> I bet that felt good



The desperation got really sad when they started trying to take me off the email chains and negotiate with my wife.

----------


## Buster

> The desperation got really sad when they stated trying to take me off the email chains and negotiate with my wife.



That's pretty funny

----------


## haggis88

> The desperation got really sad when they started trying to take me off the email chains and negotiate with my wife.



I had a realtor do that once when we fired him...shit his pants when I answered my wife's phone  :ROFL!:

----------


## shakalaka

Can't blame them for trying (realtors and salesmen); they gotta do their jobs. It's all about the hustle.

----------


## cam_wmh

> The desperation got really sad when they started trying to take me off the email chains and negotiate with my wife.



What an idiot. Should've asked you while walking to the 8th green at GGCC.

----------


## killramos

> Can't blame them for trying (realtors and salesmen); they gotta do their jobs. It's all about the hustle.



Yes I can lol

----------


## XylathaneGTR

> Can't blame them for trying (realtors and salesmen); they gotta do their jobs. It's all about the hustle.



I was looking at a Jag F-Type recently and exploring a trade for my V90. Dealer lowballed hard, showing a few examples of similar QC cars which had been sitting for a while as justification for his pricepoint, suggesting my car isn't popular and wouldn't move. During the discussion, he slipped that he had a buyer lined up already and wanted to flip it ASAP.

Yes, you can definitely hate someone for doing their job like a greaseball.

----------


## bjstare

> Can't blame them for trying (realtors and salesmen); they gotta do their jobs. It's all about the hustle.



Hustling =/= being slimy.

----------


## shakalaka

^True I agree.

I was referring to more so them trying to follow-up all the time. It's annoying AF but they are just trying. Haha.

----------


## bjstare

> ^True I agree.
> 
> I was referring to more so them trying to follow-up all the time. It's annoying AF but they are just trying. Haha.



Yeah, frequent follow-up is par for the course. 

Getting declined from one spouse, and approaching the other one for a different answer is something my 4 year old has already learned is not acceptable haha.

----------


## tha_bandit

So I have a service appointment for a recall on a 99 acura lol, buddy calls me to ask me if I want to sell it as they have a customer looking for something similar. I'm like it has 450K on it, his response was do you want to keep it then? LOL get the fuck outta here.

----------


## Pacman

> So I have a service appointment for a recall on a 99 acura lol, buddy calls me to ask me if I want to sell it as they have a customer looking for something similar. I'm like it has 450K on it, his response was do you want to keep it then? LOL get the fuck outta here.



I've got a 2012 Subaru Outback with 270k on it. Very light hail damage on every panel. Warped front rotors. Runs fine but I assumed it wouldn't be worth anything. Same story for me. Went to the dealer last month to buy a new Crosstrek with my dad and the manager was asking if I wanted to sell my car as they felt they could sell it for a profit.

----------


## flipstah

So dealers are looking to fill lots so it looks full?

----------


## eglove

> So dealers are looking to fill lots so it looks full?




100%

----------


## jutes

New vehicle lots are wasteful. Dealers should have one or two of each model available for test drives and leave new vehicles for orders only. This is assuming factories can fulfill orders within 6 months.

----------


## killramos

I don’t really see why any of us should tell a dealer what to do with their inventory or how to run their business.

----------


## XylathaneGTR

> New vehicle lots are wasteful. Dealers should have one or two of each model available for test drives and leave new vehicles for orders only. This is assuming factories can fulfill orders within 6 months.



Lean thinking only applies when all dealers behave the same way. Most people don't want to wait months for a new vehicle. The moment one dealer deviates from your thinking and carries inventory, sales will flock to that dealer as customers won't need to wait. Thus, consumer interests incentivize dealers to carry an inventory of product.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Most people don't want to wait months for a new vehicle.



Or can wait. It's not like many people plan to have their car written off from an accident.

----------


## killramos

If most people had months of cooling off about vehicle purchases after the euphoria wears off I bet a lot would walk away.

----------


## jutes

> Or can wait. It's not like many people plan to have their car written off from an accident.



Could always have a rental in the meantime. This is assuming automakers can have your new vehicle delivered in weeks rather than months. 




> Lean thinking only applies when all dealers behave the same way.



Just takes another law in place by our Greenpeace Environment Minister, easy to justify when it affects carbon output on a mass-scale production. Never underestimate the political noises coming from Ottawa, especially when it makes no sense. 


Related to thread, picked up a cheap-ass Pathfinder SUV for $4k after I dumped the Camaro. Never happier to drive a point A-B beater again with no payments and next to nothing insurance costs.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Could always have a rental in the meantime.



 The Rental companies are basically out of cars too. It's madness. Rental prices are 5x what they used to be, and the rental companies are running out of cars daily.

----------


## Buster

> If most people had months of cooling off about vehicle purchases after the euphoria wears off I bet a lot would walk away.



This. I force myself to wait on big purchases because it's funny how they become just slightly less exciting even after a brief delay. I've gone through whole Shak cycles with individual vehicles without even having bought it. I was super excited about buying an R8, then I became less excited, then it seemed R8s were common, then I wasn't as interested and I moved on to something else. All without having even bought a car, lol. I basically got bored of an imaginary car. It's very cost effective.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> This. I force myself to wait on big purchases because it's funny how they become just slightly less exciting even after a brief delay. I've gone through whole Shak cycles with individual vehicles without even having bought it. I was super excited about buying an R8, then I became less excited, then it seemed R8s were common, then I wasn't as interested and I moved on to something else. All without having even bought a car, lol. I basically got bored of an imaginary car. It's very cost effective.




I 100% agree, this is how I managed my desire to buy nice cars for a very long time. I’m just happy that I’ve since moved on from being completely poor and living in the NE.  :Angel:

----------


## XylathaneGTR

> Could always have a rental in the meantime. This is assuming automakers can have your new vehicle delivered in weeks rather than months.



 but they can't sooo...end thread?




> Just takes another law in place by our Greenpeace Environment Minister, easy to justify when it affects carbon output on a mass-scale production. Never underestimate the political noises coming from Ottawa, especially when it makes no sense.



Oh, this is just complaining about the guv'ment. Nevermind then,.
Edit: Since I fail at linking images: old-man-yells-at-cloud.jpg

----------


## Buster

> I 100% agree, this is how I managed my desire to buy nice cars for a very long time. I’m just happy that I’ve since moved on from being completely poor and living in the NE.



My problem is that I've now done it with cars in general, lol

----------


## jutes

I've never regretted buying the vehicles I did own, but I also don't regret the ones I didn't buy. 

The nostalgia of owning purpose specific sports cars and using them as semi-daily drivers has worn off. It's a young persons game or for someone who is really dedicated to cars and coffee or motorsports.

----------


## Buster

> I've never regretted buying the vehicles I did own, but I also don't regret the ones I didn't buy. 
> 
> The nostalgia of owning purpose specific sports cars and using them as semi-daily drivers has worn off. It's a young persons game or for someone who is really dedicated to cars and coffee or motorsports.



Cars never quite do for you what you want them to. That's why Shak flips so much. You're right, I've never regretted NOT buying a car.

----------


## zechs

> New vehicle lots are wasteful. Dealers should have one or two of each model available for test drives and leave new vehicles for orders only. This is assuming factories can fulfill orders within 6 months.



This is how the japanese do it. Basically every car is "factory ordered" in Japan.

----------


## haggis88

> The Rental companies are basically out of cars too. It's madness. Rental prices are 5x what they used to be, and the rental companies are running out of cars daily.



National Executive Elite FTW  :Smilie:

----------


## shakalaka

> This. I force myself to wait on big purchases because it's funny how they become just slightly less exciting even after a brief delay. I've gone through whole Shak cycles with individual vehicles without even having bought it. I was super excited about buying an R8, then I became less excited, then it seemed R8s were common, then I wasn't as interested and I moved on to something else. All without having even bought a car, lol. I basically got bored of an imaginary car. It's very cost effective.






> I 100% agree, this is how I managed my desire to buy nice cars for a very long time. I’m just happy that I’ve since moved on from being completely poor and living in the NE.



I really hope I get to this point soon as well - would be really nice.

----------


## Tik-Tok

The first step is acknowledging you have a problem. The second step is to be wealthy enough for it to not be of any consequence.

----------


## shakalaka

I need to start buying lottery and maybe I will get lucky and win $70 mil like this guy out of Saskatchewan who was in the news yesterday.

----------


## brucebanner

> I need to start buying lottery and maybe I will get lucky and win $70 mil like this guy out of Saskatchewan who was in the news yesterday.



There's a lottery group here somewhere, increase your odds.  :ROFL!:

----------


## BavarianBeast

https://m.imgur.com/ToNWUUI?r

$200k markup on a GT3 touring, crazy. 

I really hate Porsche. They were the first brand that where I had enough money to buy the car I really wanted (Cayman GT4) and they basically just told me to fuck off haha. It was 2015 and I didnt realize the insane market for GT cars. Blows my mind that they can get away with these kind of markups on allocations.

----------


## Buster

> https://m.imgur.com/ToNWUUI?r
> 
> $200k markup on a GT3 touring, crazy. 
> 
> I really hate Porsche. They were the first brand that where I had enough money to buy the car I really wanted (Cayman GT4) and they basically just told me to fuck off haha. It was 2015 and I didn’t realize the insane market for GT cars. Blows my mind that they can get away with these kind of markups on allocations.



Porsche makes good cars, but their customers are even more delusional than Tesla owners.

All of it is coming to an end soon, though. As the car market electrifies the brand equity is going to flatten - much like the smartphone market has flat brand equity. It's also the reason that Porsche has abandoned the concept of protecting the 911 from the Cayman and other Porsche's. They know that the era of the 911 or any other car being considered particularly "special" is coming to an end. In a few years the 911 will be just another electric sports car amongst the other electric sports cars. So Porsche just said fuck it, let's go HAM on the Cayman because the long term doesn't much matter any more.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> https://m.imgur.com/ToNWUUI?r
> 
> $200k markup on a GT3 touring, crazy. 
> 
> I really hate Porsche. They were the first brand that where I had enough money to buy the car I really wanted (Cayman GT4) and they basically just told me to fuck off haha. It was 2015 and I didn’t realize the insane market for GT cars. Blows my mind that they can get away with these kind of markups on allocations.



I’m pretty sure that’s only a US thing, I don’t fully understand how the dealer networks are setup or what they’re allowed to do but I don’t think that happens with brand new P-cars in Canada. 

A friend has purchased a number of new P-cars, all at MSRP. I asked him about this recently and he stated that they can’t sell over MSRP here but they are particular about who they sell to.

Porsche Calgary even put out a YouTube video regarding buying a GT car.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=leTKx93DAEY

----------


## Buster

> I’m pretty sure that’s only a US thing, I don’t fully understand how the dealer networks are setup or what they’re allowed to do but I don’t think that happens with brand new P-cars in Canada. 
> 
> A friend has purchased a number of new P-cars, all at MSRP. I asked him about this recently and he stated that they can’t sell over MSRP here but they are particular about who they sell to.
> 
> Porsche Calgary even put out a YouTube video regarding buying a GT car.
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=leTKx93DAEY



you dont think that the dealer takes advantage of the secondary market through friendly primary buyers?

That's adorable.

----------


## jwslam

> You're right, I've never regretted NOT buying a car.



Regretted not buying a specific car, no.
Regretted not buying a car, yes. 

When you only have one car and it fails... really sucks not having another to just hop into.
Or when the battery dies and you need one car to boost the other.

I guess these are all just poor people problems for having failing cars / no chauffer to call on demand / too cheap for uber black.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> you dont think that the dealer takes advantage of the secondary market through friendly primary buyers?
> 
> That's adorable.



Speaking of delusional, are you now quoting, and then completely making up your own dialogue?

----------


## you&me

> Im pretty sure thats only a US thing, I dont fully understand how the dealer networks are setup or what theyre allowed to do but I dont think that happens with brand new P-cars in Canada. 
> 
> A friend has purchased a number of new P-cars, all at MSRP. I asked him about this recently and he stated that they cant sell over MSRP here but they are particular about who they sell to.
> 
> Porsche Calgary even put out a YouTube video regarding buying a GT car.
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=leTKx93DAEY




It's an everywhere thing. The Canadian market generally doesn't support markups to the same degree as the US, but try and buy a 992 in Canada and the prices will be inflated well beyond MSRP. ($200k over for a Touring is egregious and not in line with the actual market, but FL Porsche dealers are known for their optimism)

As Buster eluded to, your friend is a "primary buyer", so he has built a relationship with the dealership and played by their rules in order to continue getting cars at MSRP.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> It's an everywhere thing. The Canadian market generally doesn't support markups to the same degree as the US, but try and buy a 992 in Canada and the prices will be inflated well beyond MSRP. ($200k over for a Touring is egregious and not in line with the actual market, but FL Porsche dealers are known for their optimism)
> 
> As Buster eluded to, your friend is a "primary buyer", so he has built a relationship with the dealership and played by their rules in order to continue getting cars at MSRP.



Then it should be easy enough to post an ad with a brand new, delivery mile only, inflated price 911 from a Porsche dealership. I would like to see this and I’ll happily be proven wrong.

----------


## rage2

> Then it should be easy enough to post an ad with a brand new, delivery mile only, inflated price 911 from a Porsche dealership. I would like to see this and I’ll happily be proven wrong.



https://finder.porsche.com/ca/en-CA/...reowned-0ZGG9D

----------


## 90_Shelby

> https://finder.porsche.com/ca/en-CA/...reowned-0ZGG9D



2021, previous owners 1……….

That’s not a brand new car.

----------


## rage2

> 2021, previous owners 1……….
> 
> That’s not a brand new car.



Every dealer is using the 1 previous owner trick to sell above MSRP.

Canadian dealers have a hard time selling new cars over MSRP because they get hit with allocation reductions as a penalty. So you will rarely see a new car sold like that.

edit - to add to that, I’ve seen deals where dealer 1 sells to dealer 2 over msrp, dealer 2 has a straw buyer to buy the vehicle, who resells back to dealer, who them sells as used at massive markup. 3 parties profit. Market is stupid right now.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> Every dealer is using the 1 previous owner trick to sell above MSRP.
> 
> Canadian dealers have a hard time selling new cars over MSRP because they get hit with allocation reductions as a penalty. So you will rarely see a new car sold like that.



That’s literally the point I’m making regarding new car sales in Canada. Is that the same in the US? Are those marked up Tourings new or do they have previous owners? I’m assuming they’re new as I’ve seen the same type of dealer markups on Trackhawks and Blackwings in the US but not in Canada.

Regarding the secondary market, no where did I post anything about dealers selling used cars and at what price point. I’m well aware that dealers sell used cars at market price, why wouldn’t they? Who is arguing that this isn’t the case?

----------


## rage2

> That’s literally the point I’m making regarding new car sales in Canada. Is that the same in the US? Are those marked up Tourings new or do they have previous owners? I’m assuming they’re new as I’ve seen the same type of dealer markups on Trackhawks and Blackwings in the US but not in Canada.
> 
> Regarding the secondary market, no where did I post anything about dealers selling used cars and at what price point. I’m well aware that dealers sell used cars at market price, why wouldn’t they? Who is arguing that this isn’t the case?



US is different, for whatever reason they’re not being punished for selling above msrp, although ford is doing it now with the f150 lightning. I’m not sure if this is because of dealer laws in the US protecting dealerships or what. 

The difference in Canada is, very few people are buying these cars new at msrp unless they’re an established customer. There is no way I could walk in, buy a 911 at msrp today. The new market for 911s doesn’t exist except for established customers right now.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> US is different, for whatever reason they’re not being punished for selling above msrp, although ford is doing it now with the f150 lightning. I’m not sure if this is because of dealer laws in the US protecting dealerships or what. 
> 
> The difference in Canada is, very few people are buying these cars new at msrp unless they’re an established customer. There is no way I could walk in, buy a 911 at msrp today. The new market for 911s doesn’t exist except for established customers right now.



I agree and I don’t believe you could simply offer more money in order to get a brand new 911, they simply wouldn’t sell you one, then steer you at an alternative vehicle.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

*Ferrari marketing has entered the discussion.

----------


## Buster

I don't see how this is so complicated. Porsche has some special edition car that has a $200M MSRP, but sells in the secondary market for $500M. Do you think they dealer is not going to figure out a way to participate in that market and just give up the spread?

Any of these special cars get sold to an end-buyer with more money than brains, and the extra cash is captured by the DP.

----------


## shakalaka

You guys don't seem to understand what Shelby is saying. All he is saying is that he believes that there is some sort of a rule/procedure in place that doesn't allow Canadian dealers to significantly mark-up the price of brand-new vehicles from MSRP regardless of what vehicle it might be, whereas, it doesn't seem like there are any such checks and balances in the States.

He's not saying that dealers can't find ways around it or they aren't actually marking them up and doing it (in some sly manner) - obviously they do. It's just not as prevalent or obvious as it is in States.

I don't know for sure either way but you guys are just going around in circles.

----------


## rage2

> I agree and I don’t believe you could simply offer more money in order to get a brand new 911, they simply wouldn’t sell you one, then steer you at an alternative vehicle.



Sure you can. You buy one of those one owner “used” ones. They’re basically never registered new cars that just shows used in the eyes of Porsche.

You can even order a new one and expect to get it sooner by paying more money. And by paying more money meaning buying a couple of other cars from them. That’s basically what’s been happening for anyone that wanted something like a gt3 rs brand new even before COVID broke supply and demand. 

But you’re right, technically, you don’t see them advertising new at over msrp, but almost everyone is paying over msrp one way or another.

----------


## you&me

> You guys don't seem to understand what Shelby is saying. All he is saying is that he believes that there is some sort of a rule/procedure in place that doesn't allow Canadian dealers to significantly mark-up the price of brand-new vehicles from MSRP regardless of what vehicle it might be, whereas, it doesn't seem like there are any such checks and balances in the States.
> 
> He's not saying that dealers can't find ways around it or they aren't actually marking them up and doing it (in some sly manner) - obviously they do. It's just not as prevalent or obvious as it is in States.
> 
> I don't know for sure either way but you guys are just going around in circles.



And Shelby is missing the point that the "brand new" cars on dealer floors in the US with the huge markups / ADMs aren't actually "brand new"; they're cars that have been punched to a VIP / shill / dealer friend and sold technically as a used car... with delivery miles and all but a week's worth of its full warranty. 

It's a very symbiotic relationship between the dealer VIP and the dealership... There are a number of factors that go into determining high level allocations (GT3RS', for example), but the dealership doesn't necessarily have the same number of allocations without their VIP clients (there's generally a point system, or in the case of Porsche, most recently it was 918 buyers). Without those VIPs, the dealership risks losing allocations to other stores, so its in their interest to keep thei VIPs "in the fold"... Every situation is different, but in the Porsche world, typically the dealership gets the margin in the MSRP (~8-9% on a GT level Porsche), the VIP gets 50-75% of the ADM and the dealer gets the rest... Everyone's happy, except maybe the guy that pays $200k over for a Touring  :ROFL!:  

Like I said earlier, the Canadian market isn't as supportive of huge markups, but if you want a GT3 now, I'm sure Pfaff has client cancelled order available... Or at least Kulu will be a little more honest about it  :Smilie:

----------


## rage2

I don’t think that’s the case in the US. There are guys paying ADM on factory order cars with their name on the PO. There are guys financing new cars with ADM on it too. That’s in the AMG world anyways.

----------


## Buster

> And Shelby is missing the point that the "brand new" cars on dealer floors in the US with the huge markups / ADMs aren't actually "brand new"; they're cars that have been punched to a VIP / shill / dealer friend and sold technically as a used car... with delivery miles and all but a week's worth of its full warranty. 
> 
> It's a very symbiotic relationship between the dealer VIP and the dealership... There are a number of factors that go into determining high level allocations (GT3RS', for example), but the dealership doesn't necessarily have the same number of allocations without their VIP clients (there's generally a point system, or in the case of Porsche, most recently it was 918 buyers). Without those VIPs, the dealership risks losing allocations to other stores, so its in their interest to keep thei VIPs "in the fold"... Every situation is different, but in the Porsche world, typically the dealership gets the margin in the MSRP (~8-9% on a GT level Porsche), the VIP gets 50-75% of the ADM and the dealer gets the rest... Everyone's happy, except maybe the guy that pays $200k over for a Touring  
> 
> Like I said earlier, the Canadian market isn't as supportive of huge markups, but if you want a GT3 now, I'm sure Pfaff has client cancelled order available... Or at least Kulu will be a little more honest about it



If you don't know who the dumb money at the table is, I have bad news for you....  :ROFL!:

----------


## ExtraSlow

Arguing about the definition of words is the highest form of human thought.

----------


## rage2

> Arguing about the definition of words is the highest form of human thought.



How the fuck else we supposed to spend our holidays?

----------


## Buster

> Arguing about the definition of words is the highest form of human thought.



What do you mean by "arguing"?

----------


## ExtraSlow

> What do you mean by "arguing"?

----------


## heavyD

> I don’t think that’s the case in the US. There are guys paying ADM on factory order cars with their name on the PO. There are guys financing new cars with ADM on it too. That’s in the AMG world anyways.



If you have to finance ADM then you can't afford the car. It's madness but Americans don't care as they want what they want.

----------


## killramos

This all sounds unbelievably gross to me…

Basically take the typical terrible car buying experience and quadruple the dealership BS involved.

Gross

Can’t wait for the bottom to fall out of this.

----------


## jutes

Anyone recommend a good nissan dealer in AB/SK/MB? I know it's beyonds favorite brand and all.

----------


## arcticcat522

> Anyone recommend a good nissan dealer in AB/SK/MB? I know it's _killramos_ favorite brand and all.



Fixed

----------


## killramos

Accurate

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

I was not impressed with Go Nissan South in Edmonton.
I drove by the one in Okotoks the other day and they barely have any stock. I'm not sure whether that's good/bad/indifferent.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Start emailing them. Any that don't deal over email are by definition not good dealers. I have a strong preference for not meeting my salespeople face to face.

----------


## jutes

In-person haggling with Nissan salesman just adds to the experience of purchasing a Japanese built tank.

----------


## you&me

> If you don't know who the dumb money at the table is, I have bad news for you....



I prefer not to get involved with who's dumb and whatnot... I just follow directions  :ROFL!:

----------


## Buster

> I prefer not to get involved with who's dumb and whatnot... I just follow directions



I wasn't referring to you, I was agreeing with you, hah

----------


## pheoxs

So my mom is looking at downsizing her vehicle to save on fuel and prices are looking pretty good right now. Anyone got any advice for the best way to go about this. Private sale and buy is probably not an option as she'd rather just do a trade in and be done with it or a straight across trade.

2015 Jeep Cherokee Sport, 99k km on it and pretty much mint / babied / serviced on time for everything

She's looking for something a bit smaller and better on gas but not a tiny sub compact car. Something along the lines a: Legacy, Outback, Mazda 6, Camry, etc. Or maybe a CUV even.

----------


## Power_Of_Rotary

> Cars never quite do for you what you want them to. That's why Shak flips so much. You're right, I've never regretted NOT buying a car.



Boy, am I on the other side of the spectrum. I regret not buying (back 10-15 years ago): 2001 ITR, 86 coroilas (dirt cheap back then), NSX (reasonably cheap back then), s2k, and the list goes on. 

Also, regret selling my old cars too.....  :Frown:

----------


## Rocket1k78

> So my mom is looking at downsizing her vehicle to save on fuel and prices are looking pretty good right now. Anyone got any advice for the best way to go about this. Private sale and buy is probably not an option as she'd rather just do a trade in and be done with it or a straight across trade.
> 
> 2015 Jeep Cherokee Sport, 99k km on it and pretty much mint / babied / serviced on time for everything
> 
> She's looking for something a bit smaller and better on gas but not a tiny sub compact car. Something along the lines a: Legacy, Outback, Mazda 6, Camry, etc. Or maybe a CUV even.



I would at least check around to see whats available that she'd like. If she steps foot into a dealer without knowing what she wants theres a good chance shes leaving with something the salesbro will make the most on.

If its a new car that she wants then deal by email if you can, way better buying experience unless you like playing 4 squares

----------


## pheoxs

> I would at least check around to see whats available that she'd like. If she steps foot into a dealer without knowing what she wants theres a good chance shes leaving with something the salesbro will make the most on.
> 
> If its a new car that she wants then deal by email if you can, way better buying experience unless you like playing 4 squares



Well I'm going to take her in and see what a few dealers offer as trade in and what they have as similar options to plan from there. She likely won't buy new as she doesn't want to add any money into the deal, I'm just not sure how it works trying to do a straight across trade without adding money on.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Well I'm going to take her in and see what a few dealers offer as trade in and what they have as similar options to plan from there. She likely won't buy new as she doesn't want to add any money into the deal, I'm just not sure how it works trying to do a straight across trade without adding money on.



She'll end up with a lesser vehicle that gets marginally better fuel economy.

----------


## ExtraSlow

ES rules for buying a car:
1) Don't talk about trade until you know what you want to buy.
2) don't discuss payment, frankly ever. 
3) don't "see what the deals are like" until you know what you want to buy
4) Always "be too busy" to sit down and discuss prices
5) do the real deal by email later. 
6) become verbally abusive with anyone who shows you a 4-square sheet.

----------


## bjstare

> She'll end up with a lesser vehicle that gets marginally better fuel economy.



Exactly. It's going to cost her many thousands of $ in vehicle equity to save her hundreds of $ in fuel. Not to mention giving up something that has been well maintained for a vehicle with questionable history. It's a bad idea.

If she wants to change cars for the sake of driving something different, that's another story.

----------


## zechs

To reiterate, for a painless car buying experience, refuse any dealings except by email.

This actually goes for almost any business in life, but car buying is especially emotional.

As a plus, the dealer may give you a surprising amount of money for your trade in. A lot of us have been bitching about dealer straight up buying our vehicles.

They seem willing to get closer to private sales value if you sre trading in, which makes sense with the shortages, so if your mom is already willing to pay MSRP, she should do alright.

----------


## jutes

> 2) don't discuss payment, frankly ever.



Meh. Once you go through the calculators on the manufacturers sites and play with interest rates, terms and downpayment, you should know what X payment over X years = vehicle cost (that you want) after taxes. The mistake people make is saying "i can only afford $600/month" and dealers will finance you at 6% over 84months to make it happen.

----------


## Pauly Boy

It makes me laugh when I email dealers exactly what I want or about a specific model and they try to get you to come in or 4 square you over the phone, rofl.

I’m completely turned off from buying a Mazda ever again just from the shitty dealers in Southern Alberta for this very reason - Sent in requests with trim/colour/options, timeline for purchase & requested all-in price. Sales Managers either ignored the email completely or passed it off to a lackey who ignored my very simple request that since I was out of town I would prefer to deal via email.

Bought the TLX cheap lease with 2 phone calls and 2 emails. The only reason I ended up on the phone was to confirm they were in fact honoring the prices talked about here and the second one when one of you fuckers stole the white one from me & I had to settle for silver. Cheap lease 2.0 was even quicker, lol.

I’ve found the luxury dealers to be much better at this btw than the Japanese/domestics (have not tried the Koreans). I assume it’s because they have a lot of clientele from outside the city…

Edit: Dunlop Ford in Lethbridge matched the F150 deal no problem. They are an exception to the norm though.

----------


## Buster

Canadian car dealers are morons. It's not apparent until you start buying cars in the US.

----------


## BigDL

> 6) become verbally abusive with anyone who shows you a 4-square sheet.



Ugh this made me so angry when I was shopping for my car, fuck you give me a full breakdown.

----------


## Buster

I've bought lots of cars and I don't think I've ever even seen a four square

----------


## rage2

> I've bought lots of cars and I don't think I've ever even seen a four square



Humble brag detected.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> I've bought lots of cars and I don't think I've ever even seen a four square



It's a wonderous sight.

----------


## dirtsniffer

> canadian are morons. It's not apparent until you dealing with the us.



ftfy

----------


## tonytiger55

> So my mom is looking at downsizing her vehicle to save on fuel and prices are looking pretty good right now. Anyone got any advice for the best way to go about this. Private sale and buy is probably not an option as she'd rather just do a trade in and be done with it or a straight across trade.
> 
> 2015 Jeep Cherokee Sport, 99k km on it and pretty much mint / babied / serviced on time for everything
> 
> She's looking for something a bit smaller and better on gas but not a tiny sub compact car. Something along the lines a: Legacy, Outback, Mazda 6, Camry, etc. Or maybe a CUV even.






> Well I'm going to take her in and see what a few dealers offer as trade in and what they have as similar options to plan from there. She likely won't buy new as she doesn't want to add any money into the deal, I'm just not sure how it works trying to do a straight across trade without adding money on.



To be honest, its not going to a case where she can go in and just swap her vehicle for something smaller and better. 
She is going to lose money on the trade in. She will have to put some money down. If she buys used, it wont be a good deal with the current market. If you calculate interest and payments. Its cheaper to buy new. 

As for the whole 4 square paper thing. I thought that was a myth untill I went to a Nissan dealership. They pulled out a blank sheet of paper and started drawing four boxes... WTF..  :Shock:

----------


## 88CRX

> and the second one when one of you fuckers stole the white one from me & I had to settle for silver.



Sorry, not sorry.

----------


## Buster

> Humble brag detected.



Not on purpose? What does not seeing a 4 square imply?

----------


## jutes

If you can do basic math on your own, does it really matter if it’s a 4 square or 3 triangle?

----------


## killramos

> Not on purpose? What does not seeing a 4 square imply?



You don’t buy domestics.

----------


## brucebanner

Toyota deployed this method on me as well.

----------


## haggis88

Wtf does a 4 square actually show?

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Wtf does a 4 square actually show?



It hides how they're ripping off people who don't math.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cons...ow-to-beat-it/

----------


## ExtraSlow

Yeah the point of a 4 square sheet is not to show things. There's more than one method that uses it, but the underlying idea is to obfuscate and confuse.

----------


## hurrdurr

> Can't blame them for trying (realtors and salesmen); they gotta do their jobs. It's all about the hustle.



Hope you're not the type of lawyer that gets child molesters set free on a technicality, but then again, It's all about the hustle  :dunno:

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Hope you're not the type of lawyer that gets child molesters set free on a technicality, but then again, It's all about the hustle



Let's not start that here.

----------


## killramos

+1 it’s easy enough to make fun without going below the belt on that one

----------


## Buster

> Hope you're not the type of lawyer that gets child molesters set free on a technicality, but then again, It's all about the hustle



jesus dude

----------


## 03ozwhip

> Hope you're not the type of lawyer that gets child molesters set free on a technicality, but then again, It's all about the hustle



Whoa...shit.

----------


## shakalaka

> Hope you're not the type of lawyer that gets child molesters set free on a technicality, but then again, It's all about the hustle



Haha whenever I hear/read comments like these, it makes me chuckle and shows me the maturity of the person making them. This way I know not to engage them in any sort of meaningful discussion. Carry on.  :thumbs up:

----------


## suntan

> Hope you're not the type of lawyer that gets child molesters set free on a technicality, but then again, It's all about the hustle



Username checks out.

----------


## HiSpec

Consider yourself lucky if you are given the 4 squares. I emailed two dealerships for an itemized price breakdown on a specific RAV4s they have in their inventory and they didn’t even bother to reply. I even gave them the purchase timeframe and even alternative paint colour to make their job easier.

----------


## ExtraSlow

You'll never see the 4 squares in email, or be permitted to take a copy with you. The math in them doesn't work, and would be fraud in many cases. 
4 square is strictly for in-person same-day deals.

----------


## Rocket1k78

> You'll never see the 4 squares in email, or be permitted to take a copy with you. The math in them doesn't work, and would be fraud in many cases. 
> 4 square is strictly for in-person same-day deals.



I had my first 4 square experience last summer at universal ford and the marth definitely doesnt check out. They conned me in with an extremely high trade in value and said they had the same trim as mine but a new one in stock so i figured i got lucky. They had me there for awhile too and no matter what the numbers just didnt make sense but i guess thats the point of that fucking thing.

----------


## Buster

> You'll never see the 4 squares in email, or be permitted to take a copy with you. The math in them doesn't work, and would be fraud in many cases. 
> 4 square is strictly for in-person same-day deals.



Grab it and run?

----------


## XylathaneGTR

> Grab it and run?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJh1hmmLLzw

----------


## tcon

Perusing WRX's there seems to be an awfully big supply yet they are all over priced. Some ads have been up for weeks or months.

----------


## Xtrema

> Consider yourself lucky if you are given the 4 squares. I emailed two dealerships for an itemized price breakdown on a specific RAV4s they have in their inventory and they didn’t even bother to reply. I even gave them the purchase timeframe and even alternative paint colour to make their job easier.



Not answering is easier. People who pay the "added services" get ahead in the queue. Cousin got a quote from Henninger for Highlander, $52K MSRP, $64K OTD with low key mention that wait time is 4 months to 1 year if you get the drift.

BTW who's the Toyota goto on Beyond again?

----------


## 2Legit2Quit

^ Ryan @ Red Deer Toyota

----------


## cyra1ax

> Perusing WRX's there seems to be an awfully big supply yet they are all over priced. Some ads have been up for weeks or months.



People be trying to cash in on percieved value due to the DOA status of the VB generation WRX and that STI is dead now.

----------


## C4S

Just come across with this website to tell you how much "markup" from dealers now ... 

 :Shock:  :Shock: 

https://markups.org/search.html?title=porsche

----------


## Buster

> Just come across with this website to tell you how much "markup" from dealers now ... 
> 
> 
> 
> https://markups.org/search.html?title=porsche



Hahahahaha

----------


## pheoxs

Entirely anecdotal but I’ve been looking for a cargo van for work and it’s been pretty poor options on kijiji but in the past ~10 days or so there’s been a lot more listed all of a sudden. Lots of prices out to lunch still but there’s been a few slightly undercutting current value so hoping to see things start to fall

----------


## BavarianBeast

On the other hand, there are only 5 huracan evo for sale in Canada and the cheapest one is 2 years old and still $100k over MSRP  :crazy nut:

----------


## schurchill39

> Entirely anecdotal but I’ve been looking for a cargo van for work and it’s been pretty poor options on kijiji but in the past ~10 days or so there’s been a lot more listed all of a sudden. Lots of prices out to lunch still but there’s been a few slightly undercutting current value so hoping to see things start to fall



I knew a few people back in the day who would post fake adds for cars when they were finding comparable to show insurance when they were negotiating write off value, or shady used dealerships that would post fake cars to make theirs seem reasonably priced.

Not saying thats the case, but if a bunch of them came up recently you have to wonder.

----------


## Pauly Boy

Haha this is genius.

I'll have to do this next time to make mine seem like a great price, lol.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

LoL a 2021 used Ferrari 812 Superfast GTS is $1 million?!? It's at Ferrari Calgary right now. One year old and something less than an oil change worth of miles.
I'm not up on their 812 pricing but I'm confident that a new one (for qualified buyers) is less than that. 

I'd fuck my own dad for its F12 predecessor, though...

----------


## Buster

> LoL a 2021 used Ferrari 812 Superfast GTS is $1 million?!? It's at Ferrari Calgary right now. One year old and something less than an oil change worth of miles.
> I'm not up on their 812 pricing but I'm confident that a new one (for qualified buyers) is less than that. 
> 
> I'd fuck my own dad for its F12 predecessor, though...



The crash is coming.

----------


## Disoblige

> I'd fuck my own dad for its F12 predecessor, though...



If there was a line, we reached it folks.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> If there was a line, we reached it folks.



When I cross the line, I cross it far enough that I can only see a dot where the line was.

----------


## haggis88

> When I cross the line, I cross it far enough that I can only see a dot where the line was.

----------


## M.alex

> The crash is coming.



I'm waiting w/ cash on hand but it isn't happening  :Frown:

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> I'm waiting w/ cash on hand but it isn't happening



Same.

----------


## spikerS

I put in an order on a lightning the other day. Estimated delivery of August 2023.

No discounts on it, even with employee and employer hookups, so I am hoping that sometime between now and then, factory incentives will be around.

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> I put in an order on a lightning the other day. Estimated delivery of August 2023.
> 
> No discounts on it, even with employee and employer hookups, so I am hoping that sometime between now and then, factory incentives will be around.



incentives on the lighting that's pretty much sold out for hte next 2 years? good luck.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Good call on the order. Will be a neat truck.

----------


## heavyD

I have sold two vehicles this year and it's been amazing. Even though my pricing was inline with the market I had a bit of guilt especially with our Subaru that was approaching 200k kms. The vehicle was in great shape and likely better than most in it's price range but it felt like such a ripoff for a vehicle of that high mileage.

----------


## flipstah

> If there was a line, we reached it folks.



The line becomes more distant with every thrust

----------


## danno

> I put in an order on a lightning the other day. Estimated delivery of August 2023.
> 
> No discounts on it, even with employee and employer hookups, so I am hoping that sometime between now and then, factory incentives will be around.



I was told orders are closed, oh well. Even a pro would be pretty sweet, but I’d take lariat. At least they can work out a few of the kinks before you get yours.

----------


## killramos

They gave you an estimated delivery? lol

----------


## you&me

> They gave you an estimated delivery? lol



Isn't everything on estimated delivery? I have an order on something and the best they'd commit to is a 4 month window  :ROFL!:

----------


## killramos

> Isn't everything on estimated delivery? I have an order on something and the best they'd commit to is a 4 month window



I have orders for two vapour vehicles right now, have for a year, not a whiff of a delivery estimate including for my lightning order haha

----------


## ExtraSlow

It would bother me more to have an order with no delivery, than to not have an order in.

----------


## killramos

> It would bother me more to have an order with no delivery, than to not have an order in.



I have no intention of taking delivery of the lightning.

Even the Grenadier is a debate for me. I have a feeling the cost is going to come in well north of what I think it’s worth to me compared to ordering something else. For example. If it’s knocking on the door of V8 RR money that’s likely what I’d order instead.

----------


## 90_Shelby

A buddy just confirmed a July build and November euro delivery for a GT4RS. Apparently some people are getting cars.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> A buddy just confirmed a July build and November euro delivery for a GT4RS. Apparently some people are getting cars.



Cool for several reasons. Very nice.

----------


## JustinL

> A buddy just confirmed a July build and November euro delivery for a GT4RS. Apparently some people are getting cars.



How the heck did he get an allocation? Is he a frequent flyer in the GT car club?

----------


## Buster

> How the heck did he get an allocation? Is he a frequent flyer in the GT car club?



option c: "buddy" is a broad term.

----------


## BavarianBeast

A lot of the GT club guys on rennlist are having trouble securing a solid allocation for the 4RS. Sounds like your buddy is super lucky!

----------


## JustinL

I asked my sales friend at the dealer here in Edmonton. He said it's impossible and there is one coming into Edmonton dealer and it's for a VIP. I did buy some raffle tickets for the PCA draw as that's probably my best shot at getting one.

----------


## you&me

> I asked my sales friend at the dealer here in Edmonton. He said it's impossible and there is one coming into Edmonton dealer and it's for a VIP. I did buy some raffle tickets for the PCA draw as that's probably my best shot at getting one.



Or you can pay ~$100k over MSRP

----------


## killramos

The answer as always… hahaha

I’ve thought about putting in an order for a vanilla GT4 for ??? delivery.

Can’t currently decide what I actually want.

----------


## BavarianBeast

Isn’t a GT4 still $25-50k ADM?

----------


## killramos

Not sure. I haven’t had any serious conversations about it.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> option c: "buddy" is a broad term.



He’s a good friend who I’ve known for 20 years but I’m unsure how this is relevant to the discussion.

I’m also 100% confident that he will be paying MSRP for the car, no dealer or market adjustments.

----------


## BavarianBeast

Is he related to Oliver Blume or something?

----------


## Buster

I think its funny that people are going so insane over a car that Porsche could churn out by the thousands if they wished.

----------


## killramos

> I think its funny that people are going so insane over a car that Porsche could churn out by the thousands if they wished.



The GT4RS is cool. Not convinced it’s the sweet spot for cool / $. Most p cars aren’t.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

I also know someone with a GT4RS coming. Apparently the dealer is forcing him to trade them back one of his current GT4 and he’s paying msrp if not more.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> I also know someone with a GT4RS coming. Apparently the dealer is forcing him to trade them back one of his current GT4 and he’s paying msrp if not more.



This isn't uncommon for the buyer to trade back in their existing GT car in order to secure the allocation of the latest edition. I would put money on it that he's paying MSRP for the 4RS but he won't get market value for the trade in, which enables the dealer to get the upside on the used car. 

If the used market is still strong for the GT4 and it's low mileage, they may give him back what he paid, which is reasonable.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> This isn't uncommon for the buyer to trade back in their existing GT car in order to secure the allocation of the latest edition. I would put money on it that he's paying MSRP for the 4RS but he won't get market value for the trade in, which enables the dealer to get the upside on the used car. 
> 
> If the used market is still strong for the GT4 and it's low mileage, they may give him back what he paid, which is reasonable.



Yeah not sure if he’s giving back the 781 or the 718, I think the 718 is going back since the 781 is more track prepped. Apparently he can’t even get a GT3 allocation either and I know he has 3-4+ Porsches already.

----------


## killramos

I like that people are buying these cars. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t jealous.

----------


## BavarianBeast

Fuck Porsche and their greasy lame tactics

Not sure how they run under the same umbrella as the rest of the VAG. None of the other brand have nearly as shitty of a buying experience.

----------


## Buster

> Fuck Porsche and their greasy lame tactics
> 
> Not sure how they run under the same umbrella as the rest of the VAG. None of the other brand have nearly as shitty of a buying experience.



I agree, although I think it says more about the customer base that these tactics work.

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> Fuck Porsche and their greasy lame tactics
> 
> Not sure how they run under the same umbrella as the rest of the VAG. None of the other brand have nearly as shitty of a buying experience.



Isnt Ferrari worsE?

----------


## Buster

> Isnt Ferrari worsE?



I actually think Ferrari dealers treat you better than Porsche dealers. Ferrari customers are a different breed though. They wear too much Ferrari merch into Safeway and their local pub, and obsess over mileage.

#RidgelineLife

----------


## 90_Shelby

> I agree, although I think it says more about the customer base that these tactics work.






> I actually think Ferrari dealers treat you better than Porsche dealers. Ferrari customers are a different breed though. They wear too much Ferrari merch into Safeway and their local pub, and obsess over mileage.
> 
> #RidgelineLife



Man you’re so crusty and miserable!  :ROFL!:

----------


## Buster

> Man you’re so crusty and miserable!



Flattery will get you nowhere.

----------


## spikerS

> incentives on the lighting that's pretty much sold out for hte next 2 years? good luck.



Ye have little faith. I have always managed to get deals when there were supposedly none to be had on vehicles.




> Good call on the order. Will be a neat truck.



This was my end game for the foreseeable future. What I didn't see was gas prices polevaulting past high price markers. And while my current hybrid is neat, I don't think it is any better on gas than the non hybrid 3.5L. And I am pretty easy on the skinny peddle. So the savings I was hoping for are not really there. I was planning on the lightning, but not for another 3 years.




> I was told orders are closed, oh well. Even a pro would be pretty sweet, but Id take lariat. At least they can work out a few of the kinks before you get yours.



Orders are closed on the Ford website, but from what I have experienced, dealers can still submit orders.




> They gave you an estimated delivery? lol



well, more of a best guess from the dealer of when it might arrive.




> I have no intention of taking delivery of the lightning.
> 
> .



your order transferrable? I am interested lol

----------


## killramos

I think you are currently second on the list for a transfer haha

----------


## spikerS

> I think you are currently second on the list for a transfer haha



so, what you are telling me is, there is a chance.

----------


## killramos



----------


## CompletelyNumb

1 year later and the original premise of this thread still holds true.

Used market is off the chains for the prices people want.

----------


## jutes

I can't see how some people can justify paying these insane mark up prices....#yolo? Take a used ZL1 for example, some are in the $90k+ region while you can spec one out at $74k on chevy.ca. Are people that desperate for vehicles they are willing to pay $20k+ more instead of waiting? Used ZL1s with very low mileage were in the high 50s, low 60s pre pandemic.

----------


## heavyD

> I can't see how some people can justify paying these insane mark up prices....#yolo? Take a used ZL1 for example, some are in the $90k+ region while you can spec one out at $74k on chevy.ca. Are people that desperate for vehicles they are willing to pay $20k+ more instead of waiting? Used ZL1s with very low mileage were in the high 50s, low 60s pre pandemic.



We live in an age of instant gratification. People want what they want now and don't care about the financial repercussions, hence the current used car market madness.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> We live in an age of instant gratification. People want what they want now and don't care about the financial repercussions, hence the current used car market madness.



I believe that's called Supply and Demand.

----------


## Buster

> I believe that's called Supply and Demand.



I think he's saying that the demand side are poopoo heads

----------


## killramos

> I think he's saying that the demand side are poopoo heads



So in the case of Porsche, where the supply side are also poopoo heads. How does that work?

----------


## jutes

> So in the case of Porsche, where the supply side are also poopoo heads. How does that work?



Porsche poopoos aren't poor.

----------


## killramos

So you might say… their shit don’t stink?

----------


## ExtraSlow

Lotta poop on a lot of heads.

----------


## rage2

> I believe that's called Supply and Demand.



It’s literally supply and demand, and slow moving msrp fucking perception up. Car dealers are the new Ticketmaster.

----------


## you&me

> So in the case of Porsche, where the supply side are also poopoo heads. How does that work?



In the case of Porsche, it's still demand side driven. The supply (Porsche) may be poopoo heads, but there are still more people that DGAF about that than there are cars. 

At least their product is still compelling and top of class. Can you imagine being treated in a similar way at a Kia dealership? 

The good news for anyone who's feelings are hurt (or don't understand supply & demand) is Chrysler and Ram are still offering huge rebates  :ROFL!:

----------


## Buster

> In the case of Porsche, it's still demand side driven. The supply (Porsche) may be poopoo heads, but there are still more people that DGAF about that than there are cars. 
> 
> At least their product is still compelling and top of class. Can you imagine being treated in a similar way at a Kia dealership? 
> 
> The good news for anyone who's feelings are hurt (or don't understand supply & demand) is Chrysler and Ram are still offering huge rebates



Even Infiniti was getting uppity with me.

I'm like, who the fuck do you think you are?

----------


## you&me

It's funny, out of my recent experiences with dealerships & ordering new cars, it's the domestic and 'normal' brands that think their shit stinks the least.

----------


## killramos

I’m still chuckling that Lexus thought I was going to buy a car that they managed to lock my wife in and needed to engage the emergency release 3 separate times during a demo.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> Even Infiniti was getting uppity with me.
> 
> I'm like, who the fuck do you think you are?



Followed by you saying, “Do you know who I am? I demand to talk to the manager, right now!”

----------


## zechs

I think with the way interest rates are going, demand is going to tank shortly in Canada. And then all of our used cars will get exported stateside, causing even more problems here.

----------


## shakalaka

> Fuck Porsche and their greasy lame tactics
> 
> Not sure how they run under the same umbrella as the rest of the VAG. None of the other brand have nearly as shitty of a buying experience.



Sorry you were mistreated by fellow VAG brethren. Let me know if you want a good connection. He may or may not be able to get what you want, but at least he will give you good service.

- - - Updated - - -




> I asked my sales friend at the dealer here in Edmonton. He said it's impossible and there is one coming into Edmonton dealer and it's for a VIP. I did buy some raffle tickets for the PCA draw as that's probably my best shot at getting one.



VIP right here.

Maybe not THE vip in your post....but a vip nonetheless. lol

----------


## killramos

If anyone deserves car dealer VIP status it’s you bub

Your frequent flyer miles are off the charts

----------


## Tik-Tok

The dealership I drive by everyday seems to be finally filling up with stock. Hopefully the average new car drought is coming to an end, and deals can be had again.

----------


## pheoxs

> The dealership I drive by everyday seems to be finally filling up with stock. Hopefully the average new car drought is coming to an end, and deals can be had again.



i fully expect 12 months of artificial scarcity where they have stock but lie to make it sound like they’re still struggling to justify their bullshit dealer adjustment markups

----------


## riander5

> i fully expect 12 months of artificial scarcity where they have stock but lie to make it sound like they’re still struggling to justify their bullshit dealer adjustment markups



12 more months of $100k quarter tons

----------


## killramos

> 12 more months of $100k quarter tons



Nah. 2% higher Interest rates will take care of that one.

You think people can afford an extra $175 a month on their payment?

Methinksno

----------


## danno

Ford ceo announced that they plan to do non negotiable prices and orders online. The whole auto industry is changing

----------


## killramos

> Ford ceo announced that they plan to do non negotiable prices and orders online. The whole auto industry is changing



This is great news

----------


## gpomp

> Ford ceo announced that they plan to do non negotiable prices and orders online. The whole auto industry is changing



I thought it was for their electric cars only?

----------


## BavarianBeast

Most of the cars I’ve been watching on Autotrader are priced high but nothing seems to be moving much these days. Maybe we will see some $100k trx’s this summer  :thumbs up:

----------


## killramos

I think things have peaked and some segments are already softening.

Personally.

----------


## vengie

> I think things have peaked and some segments are already softening.
> 
> Personally.



That's what she said.

----------


## schurchill39

> Ford ceo announced that they plan to do non negotiable prices and orders online. The whole auto industry is changing



Just for electric vehicles, not everything. Although this will be their test to see if it would work and if there are any benefits for it.

----------


## 2002civic

> Just for electric vehicles, not everything. Although this will be their test to see if it would work and if there are any benefits for it.



It's because dealer agreements don't include EV, they won't be able to do it with the petrol unless they want years of lawsuits from dealer groups.

----------


## spikerS

I thought Ford was renaming the brand or something for EVs to avoid that whole issue.

*edit* https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...formation.html

I thought that this was being developed as a loophole for bypassing dealers...not sure though

----------


## killramos

Are they going to call them all mustangs lol

----------


## Tik-Tok

How many more corporate buzzwords could they squeeze into that headline?

I was hoping they would bring back the Mercury name for EV's, but if this is the route they're taking, I doubt that'll happen. I'm sure there's still a few "Ford Lincoln Mercury" dealers around.

----------


## BavarianBeast

I’m really interested in this car but can’t wrap my head around the cheap price (comparatively). Are Porsche “enthusiasts” really that big of purists that the techart and aftermarket alcantara lowers the value? 

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/porsche/...05800/?nobar=1

----------


## nismodrifter

Saw that as I monitor 997 prices/market. Car is beat. Disgusting. That is why its priced low.

----------


## BavarianBeast

Beat as in rough shape, or you just don’t like how it’s modified? Each to their own but I love the techart kit and could live with the interior.

----------


## vengie

Rich- what? 
RICHMOND!

----------


## Shlade

No carfax provided leads me to believe its got some shady history.

----------


## mr2mike

Probably a flood car.
Redid interior to hide the damage?

My thoughts.

----------


## BavarianBeast

I got the car fax. One vandalism claim for a smashed window.

----------


## heavyD

If I was going to buy a used car like that I would want a stock one only.

----------


## max_boost

> If I was going to buy a used car like that I would want a stock one only.



Agreed. Kulu is selling a nice one white one but $159k

https://kulumotorcar.com/cars/porsch...6-speed-manual

----------


## BavarianBeast

I think I’m the only one stoked about the $100k in techart parts haha. I plan to go 800hpish when I get one so it’s getting modified anyways. 

Flying down next week to see it

----------


## max_boost

> I think I’m the only one stoked about the $100k in techart parts haha. I plan to go 800hpish when I get one so it’s getting modified anyways. 
> 
> Flying down next week to see it



bro you got so much money it's a rounding error lol just get your own techart parts lol

----------


## importracer

What is everyone’s thoughts on the used 2007-2009 Shelby gt500 market? Prices inflated due to Covid? Seeing these listed between 40-50? 

What were these going for pre-Covid?

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> What is everyone’s thoughts on the used 2007-2009 Shelby gt500 market? Prices inflated due to Covid? Seeing these listed between 40-50? 
> 
> What were these going for pre-Covid?



Mid 30s cars before Covid.

----------


## Shlade

> What is everyone’s thoughts on the used 2007-2009 Shelby gt500 market? Prices inflated due to Covid? Seeing these listed between 40-50? 
> 
> What were these going for pre-Covid?



Id avoid 07's as most of them had transmission and clutch issues. They were also generally the cheaper of the 08/09. You could find a nice 07 GT500 for 35k pre covid. Now theyre hovering 42-50ish for sure. 

I think even 10-12's have risen up in value again.

----------


## importracer

Thanks for the info!

----------


## tirebob

I could very well be wrong, but I am kind of getting that vibe like we are in the sweetspot of high trade in values and prices starting to finally hover or even come down a hair in new vehicles. Trucks anyways. If I would have traded my truck in against a new truck like it was two years ago I think I would have ended up costing more overall compared to what I am at today. At the very worst even to it.

----------


## Pauly Boy

Lead times on desirable cars is ridiculous still...

Wife was talking about how she likes cheap F150 lease, but can't justify paying full price for another truck or similar when it's up next year - Especially not at these rates (we are poor students). Was looking at the Toyota hybrids (Rav/Highlander) since they accomplish 90% of her needs, but Toyta bud says delivery on hybrids is 12 months & impossible on a Prime, lol.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Any lead time over about 6 months may as well be "no thanks" for me. I'm thinking that a lot of hybrid and Plug-in hybrid vehicles will get better lead times slowly over the next year. They are really desirable for a lot of families, including mine. Would love to drive a Rav4 Prime.

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> Any lead time over about 6 months may as well be "no thanks" for me. I'm thinking that a lot of hybrid and Plug-in hybrid vehicles will get better lead times slowly over the next year. They are really desirable for a lot of families, including mine. Would love to drive a Rav4 Prime.



lol good luck. Any desirable Hybrid model will be 12month+ with added market adjustment. This likely wont change for a couple years. The backlog for those units are already over a year long. Remember, they are still taking orders from new customer, so manufacturers have to catch up to the back logs AND accelerate production to catch up. that's not happening soon.

----------


## heavyD

I'm thinking it's going to be 2025 until we get back to any levels of normalcy and that's providing we don't have anymore COVID strands wreaking havoc on the world. I thought last year was worse than the year before but this year is proving to be worse than last year as things really aren't improving much at all as the supply chains are arguably more backed up now as it's more than just semiconductors as plastics, aluminum, etc are in short supply.

----------


## rage2

I saw a rav4 prime being delivered the other day. What a unicorn. 



I put my name down on a Sienna prime at multiple dealerships if they ever make one. Plan early, don’t sell till you’re guaranteed a vehicle. Made that mistake this year and driving a 03 Sentra for 3 months sucked balls.

----------


## heavyD

> I put my name down on a Sienna prime at multiple dealerships if they ever make one. Plan early, don’t sell till you’re guaranteed a vehicle. Made that mistake this year and driving a 03 Sentra for 3 months sucked balls.



Ha ha ha. I drove a 2020 RAV4 for two months waiting for my new car and I thought that sucked balls.

----------


## shakalaka

WTF is this world coming to where 
@rage2
 is talking about putting name down on Sienna's and shit.

----------


## Buster

> WTF is this world coming to where 
> @rage2
>  is talking about putting name down on Sienna's and shit.



the era of cars being objects of interest is quickly coming to a close.

----------


## heavyD

> WTF is this world coming to where 
> @rage2
>  is talking about putting name down on Sienna's and shit.



I thought that as well but we are all getting old and I have always believed minivans > SUV's when you have multiple kids. They may not be cool but they are the best utility vehicle.

----------


## ExtraSlow

and Raj has had a Sienna before I'm pretty sure.

----------


## mr2mike

> WTF is this world coming to where 
> @rage2
>  is talking about putting name down on Sienna's and shit.



The girls he rolls with now get wet for them minivans and environment savers.

----------


## shakalaka

> the era of cars being objects of interest is quickly coming to a close.



I hope I can start feeling the same way soon.

----------


## pheoxs

My desire to mod cars died about 5 years ago. Still have an eye for nicer cars but even that is sorta falling away. Next purchase will probably just be a boring nice SUV which makes me sad inside.

----------


## killramos

> I hope I can start feeling the same way soon.



Why? At least you still seem to get enjoyment out of it all.

Beats not enjoying anything.

----------


## Buster

> I hope I can start feeling the same way soon.



It's an amazing time to be a motorcycle fan. There's like 20 bikes I want, and barely any cars.

----------


## shakalaka

> Why? At least you still seem to get enjoyment out of it all.
> 
> Beats not enjoying anything.



True but the bank account sure could use a break and since I have no self-control, losing interest all together is my best chance. Haha.




> It's an amazing time to be a motorcycle fan. There's like 20 bikes I want, and barely any cars.



I love bikes, always have but just can't get into them (more than I already am) simply due to not having anyone to ride with. So far this season I've taken mine out once. The some nice days that end up coming, the cars end up getting used so the bike is not being used as a regular commuter, so need to find a couple of people to go on fun rides with.

----------


## Buster

> True but the bank account sure could use a break and since I have no self-control, losing interest all together is my best chance. Haha.
> 
> 
> 
> I love bikes, always have but just can't get into them (more than I already am) simply due to not having anyone to ride with. So far this season I've taken mine out once. The some nice days that end up coming, the cars end up getting used so the bike is not being used as a regular commuter, so need to find a couple of people to go on fun rides with.



meet you in red deer? haha

----------


## gmc72

> I love bikes, always have but just can't get into them (more than I already am) simply due to not having anyone to ride with. So far this season I've taken mine out once. The some nice days that end up coming, the cars end up getting used so the bike is not being used as a regular commuter, so need to find a couple of people to go on fun rides with.



Same here, but I still get out. Of course, I've been without a bike for a few years, so I'm making up for lost time.

----------


## BavarianBeast

Lots of TRX going for MSRP now

----------


## Buster

> Lots of TRX going for MSRP now



In my case I think that's probably true. But that doesn't change the fact that the car market is not heading in the right direction for enthusiasts of any level.

----------


## jutes

> My desire to mod cars died about 5 years ago. Still have an eye for nicer cars but even that is sorta falling away. Next purchase will probably just be a boring nice SUV which makes me sad inside.



A boring nice SUV is glorious. My days of turbo and exhaust swapping are behind me.

----------


## rage2

> WTF is this world coming to where 
> @rage2
>  is talking about putting name down on Sienna's and shit.



I hate driving it. I am enjoying it as a passenger. We’d like to upgrade if they ever made a PHEV one, and get the trim we wanted instead of what we settled for. Beggars can’t be choosers in this market. 

Wait times for Sienna AWD are 18-24 months lol. Who would’ve thought. Have to apply all the tricks to plan for next upgrade.

----------


## flipstah

> My desire to mod cars died about 5 years ago. Still have an eye for nicer cars but even that is sorta falling away. Next purchase will probably just be a boring nice SUV which makes me sad inside.



I can relate to this. I lost the desire to make the car ride worse or make it less dependable for 'shits and giggles'.

----------


## riander5

> I can relate to this. I lost the desire to make the car ride worse or make it less dependable for 'shits and giggles'.



Hmm I just thought the opposite. Turned F&F on the other day... would still love an s14 someday to f around with. Obviously as a 3rd or 4th car that doesnt need to run

----------


## DonJuan

> Hmm I just thought the opposite. Turned F&F on the other day... would still love an s14 someday to f around with. Obviously as a 3rd or 4th car that doesnt need to run



My life for the last 15 years. I've been planning on wiring up my new electric fans for like 3 months now.

----------


## zechs

My only concern with the car hobby falling away is noise. I can't torment people like that anymore.

*I literally have a fender exit 6.0L Firebird, I still have some work to do on my guilt

----------


## max_boost

> I can relate to this. I lost the desire to make the car ride worse or make it less dependable for 'shits and giggles'.



Richardchan2002 oem is best

So you buy a car that is just loaded and done. 

I lost the desire too for a good 5 years

----------


## bjstare

The real great thing here is it's possible to own more than one car. Or even *gasp* more than two. Own something nice/luxurious/reliable, as well as an impractical moneypit. That's what I do.

----------


## brucebanner

> *I literally have a fender exit 6.0L Firebird, I still have some work to do on my guilt



I have a feeling you'll get over it  :ROFL!:

----------


## killramos

> The real great thing here is it's possible to own more than one car. Or even *gasp* more than two. Own something nice/luxurious/reliable, as well as an impractical moneypit. That's what I do.



I think I need a new moneypit

----------


## riander5

> My life for the last 15 years. I've been planning on wiring up my new electric fans for like 3 months now.



You have an s14 you sonofabitch!? 95-96 or 97-98?

----------


## DonJuan

:Big Grin:  

96 240, had it since 2001.

----------


## riander5

> 96 240, had it since 2001.



Well I can't find a good one to buy.

Guess ill pay 70k for an s15

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...7759?undefined

----------


## DonJuan

I don't want to know what mine would sell for, with only 104k on it.

edit: *I don't want *my wife* to know* 

Drift tax is the real inflation. Change my mind.

----------


## bjstare

Every day that goes by, I feel a greater desire to get another S2k. Going to try and wait the market out a bit though.

----------


## max_boost

Amazing cars. I think they are so worth it. Would totally splurge on an AP2!

----------


## BavarianBeast

> I think I need a new moneypit



Buy an e30

----------


## killramos

Not the worst idea

----------


## brucebanner

> I think I need a new moneypit



Beyond is (was) a car forum after all

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Beyond is (was) a car forum after all



I thought it was a dick comparison forum. In more ways than one.

----------


## brucebanner

You're not wrong.

----------


## max_boost

> Every day that goes by, I feel a greater desire to get another S2k. Going to try and wait the market out a bit though.



https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2004-honda-s2000-112/ Dang that looks clean

----------


## bjstare

> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2004-honda-s2000-112/ Dang that looks clean



Ya that’s pretty awesome. I want a driver though, so I’d look for something in decent shape with ~80-100k km on it. Less than that and I’m paying a premium for low kms (which I don’t care about).

----------


## riander5

> I don't want to know what mine would sell for, with only 104k on it.
> 
> edit: *I don't want *my wife* to know* 
> 
> Drift tax is the real inflation. Change my mind.



Do people still drift? I thought that shit was finally dead and gone. It has definitely contributed to the absolute vacuum of availability of 240's forsure. Fucking drifting.

What could you list yours at vs what could you sell? Hell there are ones listed for 22k with 300,000 kms. I bet you could get 25k toot sweet

----------


## DonJuan

It's the Americans. As usual they are about 15 years behind the rest of the world in all things. They are going nuts for anything JDM, RWD, turbo, or RHD. They have that 25 year old "RHD classic" car import rule.

Seen a couple similar ones on BAT got for about ~$20K USD. FB marketplace and groups though is an absolute shit show. A whole lot of "I know what I have" owners with cars that are cut to hell and seen plenty of walls.

Rusty KA auto S13 going for $10k wtf bbq? Not as crazy as Supras, NSX's, or FDs but really stupid money.

My wife's extended family from California came for a visit couple months ago. Their mid 20 year old sons were just swooning over it, taking pics like its a Bugatti or something. Americans are weird.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> My wife's extended family from California came for a visit couple months ago. Their mid 20 year old sons were just swooning over it, taking pics like its a Bugatti or something. Americans are weird.



It's a classic now. No different than 80's kids loving 60's muscle cars. They live in a sea of boring vehicles just like in the 80's as well.

----------


## riander5

> It's the Americans. As usual they are about 15 years behind the rest of the world in all things. They are going nuts for anything JDM, RWD, turbo, or RHD. They have that 25 year old "RHD classic" car import rule.
> 
> Seen a couple similar ones on BAT got for about ~$20K USD. FB marketplace and groups though is an absolute shit show. A whole lot of "I know what I have" owners with cars that are cut to hell and seen plenty of walls.
> 
> Rusty KA auto S13 going for $10k wtf bbq? Not as crazy as Supras, NSX's, or FDs but really stupid money.
> 
> My wife's extended family from California came for a visit couple months ago. Their mid 20 year old sons were just swooning over it, taking pics like its a Bugatti or something. Americans are weird.



Thats insane... I figured the JDM craze wouldn't affect LHD s13 / s14s... but I was wrong.

Crazy thing is you can still grab RHD S14's and S15's for reasonable prices landed it seems.. like 9-13k USD from my 1 minute google search anyways. Meanwhile ratbagged 300k km ones are 20k here.... I just would hate one day to have a RHD drive car as a 40 year old lol

----------


## richardchan2002

> Richardchan2002 oem is best
> 
> So you buy a car that is just loaded and done. 
> 
> I lost the desire too for a good 5 years



So true still

The only exception might be tires. In some cases.

----------


## Buster

So, buy a new car at MSRP right now before the 2023 model rollover, or wait until 2023 and expect a MSRP bump?

----------


## flipstah

> Not the worst idea



Buy a 928 and join the club

----------


## bjstare

> So, buy a new car at MSRP right now before the 2023 model rollover, or wait until 2023 and expect a MSRP bump?



Depends if the new model is differentiated enough to justify the anticipated higher cost. What car?

----------


## Buster

> Depends if the new model is differentiated enough to justify the anticipated higher cost. What car?



QX60

I lurvs Nissan now.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Do both and Shak yolo.

----------


## bjstare

> QX60
> 
> I lurvs Nissan now.



Can't tell if trolling or srs. A+ 89coupe post.

----------


## Buster

> Can't tell if trolling or srs. A+ 89coupe post.



Haha, no I actually really like the QX60 compared to its rivals. idgaf about brand

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> So, buy a new car at MSRP right now before the 2023 model rollover, or wait until 2023 and expect a MSRP bump?



Can you get a 2022 still? otherwise you're gonna get bumped anyways to take a 2023

----------


## vengie

QX60 and Ridgeline.

You're a man after my own heart.

----------


## Buster

> Can you get a 2022 still? otherwise you're gonna get bumped anyways to take a 2023



Yep, they are have one incoming.

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> Yep, they are have one incoming.



I definitely wouldnt wait for a 2023 and pay another 5%.

----------


## Pauly Boy

What's the bike market like with all this nonsense? Uncle has been sitting on a Honda Goldwing for many years (early 00's model) & had mentioned it might be time to sell.

I don't have my class 6 & I have no knowledge of the baseline here.

----------


## Buster

> What's the bike market like with all this nonsense? Uncle has been sitting on a Honda Goldwing for many years (early 00's model) & had mentioned it might be time to sell.
> 
> I don't have my class 6 & I have no knowledge of the baseline here.



Doesn't seem to have been impacted as much? Bike supply chains are much simpler I would guess

----------


## riander5

> Doesn't seem to have been impacted as much? Bike supply chains are much simpler I would guess



And bikes sold in North America are definitely luxury items / toys.

Maybe the scooter market in asia was jammed up for a bit but here they definitely aren't in high demand or a necessity like housing, cars, trucks, toilet paper

----------


## bjstare

This chump wants $7500 for a used Grom  :ROFL!: 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...0325916595015/


I get that he put some bolt on parts on it, but come on.

edit: for reference, MSRP on a brand new one is ~$4200. Shit, a CB500 MSRP is $7750. Am I missing something, or is the seller mentally handicapped?

----------


## nismodrifter

> Im really interested in this car but cant wrap my head around the cheap price (comparatively). Are Porsche enthusiasts really that big of purists that the techart and aftermarket alcantara lowers the value? 
> 
> https://www.autotrader.ca/a/porsche/...05800/?nobar=1



 
@BavarianBeast
 - what was the verdict? Did you check it out?

----------


## schurchill39

> This chump wants $7500 for a used Grom 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...0325916595015/
> 
> 
> I get that he put some bolt on parts on it, but come on.
> 
> edit: for reference, MSRP on a brand new one is ~$4200. Shit, a CB500 MSRP is $7750. Am I missing something, or is the seller mentally handicapped?



"I know what I've got" - that guy probably

----------


## BavarianBeast

> @BavarianBeast
>  - what was the verdict? Did you check it out?



It wasn’t in very good shape. Quite a few scratches, cracked carbon bits.. looked like it was probably bagged to shit

----------


## ianmcc

Marked as sold so a bigger chump out there....

----------


## BavarianBeast

$20k off MSRP in two months?

----------


## s2k_boi

@Buster
 what do you like about the qx60? It's on the potential list but haven't test driven it yet.

----------


## Buster

> @Buster
>  what do you like about the qx60? It's on the potential list but haven't test driven it yet.



looks good, interior is nice. Convenient captains chairs for third row. Drives better than most in its segment. Slightly roomier than the BMW, and my wife doesn't want a GLS again.

----------


## shakalaka

@BavarianBeast


This is just phishing. Called them, they don't have it, 'they will get an allocation soon'. And 'final price will be determined based on the demand'. Fucking asshole dealers going around posting stupid shit.

----------


## riander5

> looks good, interior is nice. Convenient captains chairs for third row. Drives better than most in its segment. Slightly roomier than the BMW, and my *wife doesn't want a GLS again*.



 :Pimpin':

----------


## BavarianBeast

> @BavarianBeast
> 
> 
> This is just phishing. Called them, they don't have it, 'they will get an allocation soon'. And 'final price will be determined based on the demand'. Fucking asshole dealers going around posting stupid shit.



Jeez, yeah that’s fucking brutal. 

I still think the dealers will have trouble unloading them in a couple months time.. we’ll see how things pan out. I’d love one, but I’m not paying a dime over $100k for one haha

----------


## DonJuan

> @Buster
>  what do you like about the qx60? It's on the potential list but haven't test driven it yet.






> looks good, interior is nice. Convenient captains chairs for third row. Drives better than most in its segment. Slightly roomier than the BMW, and my wife doesn't want a GLS again.



No CVT is the biggest plus. And starting at $5k less than RX350L. It's on my list also, but I'm waiting.

----------


## ragu

I've been watching F80 M3 market for a while and that's definitely softening - not near 2020 levels yet but I believe it'll get there by the time I'm ready to jump.

----------


## Xtrema

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/used-c...-of-exploding/

Used car bubble popping next few months. Wholesale prices are coming down.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...or-2022-07-19/

Auto dealer's profit margin is also going the other direction.

----------


## suntan

Can't wait to get Buster's repo'd Ridgeline.

That first video was mostly speculation. Just another bimbo that doesn't understand price stickiness.

----------


## Rocket1k78

> $20k off MSRP in two months?



Nope.

----------


## Xtrema

> Attachment 107547
> 
> $20k off MSRP in two months?



$106k then as luxury tax kicks in.  :Big Grin:

----------


## ExtraSlow

I think people don't understand what that advertisement says.

----------


## 90_Shelby

Does anyone know if the liberal proposed luxury tax is confirmed? I haven’t been able to find anything on it lately.

----------


## ganesh

> Does anyone know if the liberal proposed luxury tax is confirmed? I haven’t been able to find anything on it lately.



It still needs the parliament approval and if it goes through it will come to effect on Sept 1 2022

----------


## 90_Shelby

> It still needs the parliament approval and if it goes through it will come to effect on Sept 1 2022



Thanks

----------


## max_boost

Oh shit 20% on vehicles over $100k date manufacturer of 2018 and on. 
Does not apply to leasing tho. 

I totally forgot about this

----------


## you&me

> Oh shit 20% on vehicles over $100k date manufacturer of 2018 and on. 
> Does not apply to leasing tho. 
> 
> I totally forgot about this



It's been a while since I looked at it, but IIRC it does apply to leasing. It will be 20% of the amount over $100,000, or 10% of the total price, whichever is less. That amount will be added to the MSRP, and it's from that all-in figure that the lease will be calculated from, just as it is now with GST.

Edit - NM, looks like it does not apply to leases. In that case, I can imagine a lot of single-payment lease scenarios... $100k car, $99,000 "single payment", $1,000 "buy out" in 3 years...

----------


## max_boost

so the max tax amount is $20k from what I am reading?

It doesn't apply to me but 
@shakalaka
 who is always flipping through cars!

----------


## rage2

The tax is applied to the importer (dealership) so lease finance or cash you’re paying for it one way or another. 

Already seeing dealers posting beat the tax promotions.




> so the max tax amount is $20k from what I am reading?
> 
> It doesn't apply to me but 
> @shakalaka
>  who is always flipping through cars!



No lol. It keeps going up. 

From above said promotion:

----------


## max_boost

Ohhh as always thanks raj for reading for the rest of us haha

----------


## you&me

> so the max tax amount is $20k from what I am reading?
> 
> It doesn't apply to me but 
> @shakalaka
>  who is always flipping through cars!



No, there is no maximum. 

For example on a $500k Ferrari, the tax would be the lesser of 10% of the total price ($50k) or 20% of the amount over $100k ($400k; $80,000 in tax). 

Basically, any car under $200,000 will be subject to the 20% tax calc and any car over $200,000 will be taxed at the 10% rate.

----------


## max_boost

Interesting. What will that do for used supercar prices. I think I am doing the marth in my head but not sure lol so buy pre 2018??  :crazy nut: 




> Vehicles - Passenger vehicles, with a date of manufacture after 2018, typically suitable for personal use including coupes, sedans, station wagons, sports cars, passenger vans, and minivans with seating capacity of not more than 10 passengers, SUVs, and passenger pick-up trucks will be subject vehicles for purposes of the new tax.



https://www.bdo.ca/en-ca/insights/ta...ury-goods-tax/

----------


## shakalaka

I thought it was already applicable on brand new vehicles which I thought was still okay but based on above it looks like 2018 and newer.

Also in that link it says if you are leasing then you don't pay it so what's stopping people from leasing and after the 3-4 year term the residual is below 100K, wouldn't you avoid the tax?

----------


## killramos

Do vehicles have to land before September to qualify?

Or can I order something and pre buy it?

----------


## ganesh

> Do vehicles have to land before September to qualify?
> 
> Or can I order something and pre buy it?



My assumption is that you need a VIN in order to 'buy'. 
I am in a similar boat and ETA for my production is October. So I am not even going to bother about buying and I will just pay the 20%

----------


## shakalaka

> Do vehicles have to land before September to qualify?
> 
> Or can I order something and pre buy it?



If you have a written contract with agreed upon pricing prior to January 2022 then you are exempt based on what I understand, otherwise it's too late. But check with the dealer some maybe wiling to be a it more flexible before the law kicks in. As I say though just lease it if you can and if done under a corp., you can write-off the interest as well so it's something. Ain't no way I am going to start paying the 20% bullshit, so either I will stop swapping cars with the same frequency or I will figure out a work around with some dealers. lol

----------


## killramos

I don’t do car payments.

----------


## max_boost

Is it a car payment if you heloc it

----------


## killramos

> Is it a car payment if you heloc it



I say. Yes

----------


## cam_wmh

i know, i know.. not really what this thread is about..

but.. shiiiiiiiit.,
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...7-41fe762242e4

----------


## ianmcc

Bought in June on BAT. Now flipping it on Kijiji.
Even re-using all the BAT photos.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...volution-ii-8/

----------


## 90_Shelby

So you guys are telling me i shouldn’t have $400k worth of HELOC’d cars? 

The old Beyond always said, “HELOC that shit”, so I figured more HELOC was better. How do you get more HELOC, more rental properties and now I’ve also learned rental properties are the worst asset class!

Well this is awkward, selling everything and leasing a Ridgeline. PM me for car and rental property opportunities.

----------


## killramos

What are you a student or something?

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Bought in June on BAT. Now flipping it on Kijiji.
> Even re-using all the BAT photos.
> 
> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...volution-ii-8/



Aren't BAT prices all in USD? Not much of a flip if he even gets asking price.

----------


## Darkane

> Aren't BAT prices all in USD? Not much of a flip if he even gets asking price.



I’d also think the NAFTA tax of 6.1% would additionally offset profits. 

But if he makes 35k, it’s worth the risk.

----------


## BavarianBeast

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/canada-imp...210000704.html

Wow, brutal. They are going to apply the tax retroactively to cars purchased after Jan 1, 2022. I know lots of people who bought recently thinking they dodged it, ouch.

----------


## Buster

> https://ca.news.yahoo.com/canada-imp...210000704.html
> 
> Wow, brutal. They are going to apply the tax retroactively to cars purchased after Jan 1, 2022. I know lots of people who bought recently thinking they dodged it, ouch.



If you are buying a private jet or a yacht, you have enough money to be offshore.

----------


## ExtraSlow

I don't know why they don't make it retroactive even further. 1990 or so seems fine.

----------


## max_boost

Wow that is lame

----------


## Buster

Canada gonna Canada

----------


## Jlude

> i know, i know.. not really what this thread is about..
> 
> but.. shiiiiiiiit.,
> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...7-41fe762242e4




Maybe I'm out of touch, but who cruises Kijiji looking for 500k cars?

----------


## mr2mike

Didn't think of this but commercial jets will just pass the tax onto the customers.

----------


## max_boost

Will see how this goes down. Retroactive Jan 1 and Bdo said 2018 model years and on so will see if that holds. 

This will hit the budget ballers the hardest  :Frown:

----------


## npham

From what I've read, as long as you've registered your vehicle by September 1 you're good. But those who placed orders and haven't received their plane, boat, or car are screwed. I don't see how they plan on retroactively applying a tax after you've taken delivery.

----------


## killramos

CRA: “Pay this or we will fuck you three ways sideways”

I’m guessing that is how they apply said tax haha

----------


## 03ozwhip

> Maybe I'm out of touch, but who cruises Kijiji looking for 500k cars?



I dont have enough money to even think about that, so that's where I'd start because I wouldn't know anyone else selling a car worth that lol

----------


## gmc72

So, this has nothing to do with the upcoming luxury tax (I can't spend that much), my wife is looking at a new-ish vehicle. She's wondering about the long term reliability of the GLA 250 and X1 (2017-2018 era). These are 2 that are on her extensive list. I thought that Beyond would know about these more than other customer reviews (seem like whiners whining about shit they should have noticed on the test drive).

Thanks.

Also, does anyone have any dealing with Clutch? What are they like to deal with? That sort of thing.

----------


## jutes

Recently traded in our 2018 X1 with 90k on it. Only issues we had with it was random "restraint malfunction" warnings on the infotainment in really cold weather (we parked outside). Beyond that it was solid.

----------


## HiSpec

> Recently traded in our 2018 X1 with 90k on it. Only issues we had with it was random "restraint malfunction" warnings on the infotainment in really cold weather (we parked outside). Beyond that it was solid.



This is also a common issue with the CLA/GLA250 (aka Infiniti QX30).

----------


## rage2

> https://ca.news.yahoo.com/canada-imp...210000704.html
> 
> Wow, brutal. They are going to apply the tax retroactively to cars purchased after Jan 1, 2022. I know lots of people who bought recently thinking they dodged it, ouch.



It’s for when the vehicle was originally ordered. The original tax was supposed to roll out Sept 2021, but purchase agreements signed prior to March 15 2021 was exempt. So if you ordered a car prior to 2022, you’re still good to go even if it’s delivered after September 2022. It’s not retroactively taxing for cars purchased after 2022, it’s granting an exception for sales orders completed before 2022. If you bought a car off the lot March 2022 you’re still good to go. Yahoo’s overseas writer got it wrong. 

Here’s the proper details. 

https://www.bdo.ca/en-ca/insights/ta...ury-goods-tax/




> The tax will apply to subject vehicles and subject vessels delivered or imported on or after September 1, 2022. However, based on recent amendments, the tax on subject aircraft may be deferred to a day or days to be fixed by order of the Governor in Council.
> 
> The tax will not apply where the vendor of the subject item and the non-registered purchaser entered into a bona fide agreement in writing for the sale of the subject item prior to January 1, 2022. Registration will be required before the first importation or delivery of a luxury good is made.



It’s the same as the original tax with just the dates changed.

----------


## max_boost

So no tax if delivered before sept 2022? Lol I’m trying to keep up ahha

----------


## littledan

still an absolutely ridiculars tax.

Can't wait till a honda civic costs $100k and gets hit with this tax. Nothing like limiting your serfs mobility by not allowing them to have vehicles.

----------


## Buster

This tax is a drop in the bucket compared to hies much the government takes from hnw people.

----------


## killramos

> This tax is a drop in the bucket compared to how much the government tries to take from hnw people.



ftfy

----------


## Nufy

I started email discussions with a dealership out of town on the purchase of a new vehicle for my wife.

Three times I have asked for the purchase cost of the vehicle, breakdown, fees etc...

All I get back is questions about financing and if I have a trade...

Sigh...

----------


## jutes

> I started email discussions with a dealership out of town on the purchase of a new vehicle for my wife.
> 
> Three times I have asked for the purchase cost of the vehicle, breakdown, fees etc...
> 
> All I get back is questions about financing and if I have a trade...
> 
> Sigh...



I ran into this, reply with a very simple, yet slightly passive aggressive question asking the same thing but breaking it down in toddler terms. 

If they are serious about selling a vehicle they'll reply.

----------


## killramos

“I buy vehicles for cash”

Tends to eliminate this problem

----------


## max_boost

Unless you know someone that’s probably gonna be the reply or they will ask you to come down to the dealership. 

Dealers make money on financing so ofc they want you to go that way.

----------


## DonJuan

You could always buy a used rental car. Cuz that's a great idea.

----------


## gmc72

So my wife's SUV is on it's way out (CVT Transmission issues) so she decided it's time for a new one. We looked at a Toyota Corolla Cross and were told that it's a 10 month wait. That's out then. Did some more shopping over the weekend, but couldn't find anything she liked. She went out Tuesday with my son to look at a few different ones. Liked the Kona, hated the Seltos, skipped BMW and Mercedes. She happened to see a Chevy Trax and liked the looks of it. Went to a dealer to drive one, but didn't like it. The salesman showed her a Buick Encore GX and she loved it. Only problem was it was used. Asked of there were any new ones. They looked and saw that one had just come in. Go look at it and it's the color she wants and all the options as well. Put a deal together Tuesday evening and she picks it up on Saturday.

----------


## DonJuan

> So my wife's SUV is on it's way out (CVT Transmission issues) so she decided it's time for a new one. We looked at a Toyota Corolla Cross and were told that it's a 10 month wait. That's out then. Did some more shopping over the weekend, but couldn't find anything she liked. She went out Tuesday with my son to look at a few different ones. Liked the Kona, hated the Seltos, skipped BMW and Mercedes. She happened to see a Chevy Trax and liked the looks of it. Went to a dealer to drive one, but didn't like it. The salesman showed her a Buick Encore GX and she loved it. Only problem was it was used. Asked of there were any new ones. They looked and saw that one had just come in. Go look at it and it's the color she wants and all the options as well. Put a deal together Tuesday evening and she picks it up on Saturday.



Nice, glad you guys found something she liked. I'm a big supporter of happy wife = happy life. 
Price breakdown if you don't mind me asking? I'm wondering about how much dealer markup and their misc fees.

If its the CVT in the 09 Murano, I'm suprised it lasted this long.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> You could always buy a used rental car. Cuz that's a great idea.



back in the "before times" a huge percentage of Certified Pre-owned cars at dealerships were from rental fleets. Not just domestics either, cars like BMW 3 and 5 series, and X5 were very popular at Avis and Budget, and they all ended up back at the dealership.

----------


## gmc72

> If its the CVT in the 09 Murano, I'm suprised it lasted this long.



Yeah, we got 260k out of it, so that's not bad from what I have heard about them.

And AMEN to Happy wife=Happy Life!!

----------


## Gman.45

> So my wife's SUV is on it's way out (CVT Transmission issues) so she decided it's time for a new one. We looked at a Toyota Corolla Cross and were told that it's a 10 month wait. That's out then. Did some more shopping over the weekend, but couldn't find anything she liked. She went out Tuesday with my son to look at a few different ones. Liked the Kona, hated the Seltos, skipped BMW and Mercedes. She happened to see a Chevy Trax and liked the looks of it. Went to a dealer to drive one, but didn't like it. The salesman showed her a Buick Encore GX and she loved it. Only problem was it was used. Asked of there were any new ones. They looked and saw that one had just come in. Go look at it and it's the color she wants and all the options as well. Put a deal together Tuesday evening and she picks it up on Saturday.



Congrats, it's nice to hear about deals working out. The Encore is a decent little ride too, 9 speed instead of a CVT is a win right there too. It's incredible how small the motors are getting too, 1.3L with that power/trq is amazing compared to just 5 or 10 years ago.

----------


## Doozer

> So my wife's SUV is on it's way out (CVT Transmission issues) so she decided it's time for a new one. We looked at a Toyota Corolla Cross and were told that it's a 10 month wait. That's out then. Did some more shopping over the weekend, but couldn't find anything she liked. She went out Tuesday with my son to look at a few different ones. Liked the Kona, hated the Seltos, skipped BMW and Mercedes. She happened to see a Chevy Trax and liked the looks of it. Went to a dealer to drive one, but didn't like it. The salesman showed her a Buick Encore GX and she loved it. Only problem was it was used. Asked of there were any new ones. They looked and saw that one had just come in. Go look at it and it's the color she wants and all the options as well. Put a deal together Tuesday evening and she picks it up on Saturday.



Similar situation here. We didn't go with Buick, but picking up a new SUV in a couple hours after doing all the work over the weekend. Three separate RAV4s that we made appointments to test drive were gone before we even got there (spoiler: we didn't buy a RAV4). It was a shitshow doing the shopping and figuring out the best prices but she found something she liked the way she likes it and you guys know the saying. Just glad it's done.

----------


## haggis88

Minivan lyf

Put a deposit on a 2023 Kia Carnival, refundable if we don't like it when it gets here

Could be up to 13 months at current build rates

----------


## ExtraSlow

Minivan is best family vehicle.

----------


## haggis88

> Minivan is best family vehicle.



Can't talk the wife into a Honda Elysion

----------


## gmc72

> Congrats, it's nice to hear about deals working out. The Encore is a decent little ride too, 9 speed instead of a CVT is a win right there too. It's incredible how small the motors are getting too, 1.3L with that power/trq is amazing compared to just 5 or 10 years ago.



I was actually quite surprised by the power. It's not amazing by any stretch, but way better than I thought it would be. And yes, hers has the 9 speed, not the CVT. I don't think I could do another CVT.






> Similar situation here. We didn't go with Buick, but picking up a new SUV in a couple hours after doing all the work over the weekend. Three separate RAV4s that we made appointments to test drive were gone before we even got there (spoiler: we didn't buy a RAV4). It was a shitshow doing the shopping and figuring out the best prices but she found something she liked the way she likes it and you guys know the saying. Just glad it's done.



My wife spent from Friday morning until Tuesday looking online, watching YouTube reviews, driving around to actually see them in person. It was starting to get exhausting. Glad it's done, and fingers crossed, it's a good little car for her.

----------


## Doozer

> Minivan lyf



Kids are getting older, after 10yrs of minivan lyfe we're leaving it behind now. 




> Minivan is best family vehicle.



They really are. And I'm always going to miss the ability to pile up 4x8 sheets in the back. That Grand Caravan was a trooper for a decade.




> I was actually quite surprised by the power. It's not amazing by any stretch, but way better than I thought it would be. And yes, hers has the 9 speed, not the CVT. I don't think I could do another CVT.



Interesting. We're doing our first CVT. I'm not big on them but I think it'll be good for her. Fingers crossed.

----------


## Gman.45

I bought my father a minivan as well, I end up driving it a fair bit when I'm taking care of him, as I can load his disability scooter into the back with some ramps in less than a minute. He isn't ambulatory, he's had 2 hip surgeries, and is now on the waiting list for his 4th back surgery (back injury while on the job in L/E, and hip replacement x 2 as after the first one he had a fall in the hospital while in there with covid for 3 months, and dislocated the hip replacement socket/etc). 

He/we have a Pacifica Hybrid. Yes it's a Chrysler (booos sound), but it's been 100% reliable, has about 30k km on it after 4+ years now, and it is actually pretty fun to zip around town for/with him. Usually the gas motor isn't even used, and overnight it'll charge to 100% off a regular wall socket, and give about 50 to 60km of electric only driving. The only thing I wish it did was allow you to shut down the electric option by choice, ie let you drive on the highway in gas only right off the bat, and save the electric power for when you arrive at another city destination, for running electric around town there, instead of burning up all the electric power on the first few dozen km on the highway.

I might replace it with an AWD van, as even with winter studded tires, it's not as grippy as I'd like. That means losing the PHEV capability, as no vans have both the plug in hybrid as well as AWD right now. I do really like the Toyota van, as well as the Honda(not awd), and will check out the Kia/etc ones as well this time around.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

I’m semi seriously looking for another car but I’ve decided to stick to used Toyotas for a while. Next up an ISF to replace the 335d, eventually a beater GR86 to replace my FRS and maybe a manual A90 down the road too in a few years.

----------


## 90_Shelby

Have you considered a used Land Rover?

----------


## haggis88

> and will check out the Kia/etc ones as well this time around.



South Trail Kia should have a demo Carnival within the next few weeks

----------


## max_boost

I drove a minivan for years from 16 to 20 some good memories hauling friends around etc. 

Is there still a barebones minivan out there lol I remember dodge caravan canada value pack it was like $20k

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Have you considered a used Land Rover?



Yes but I’ve decided collecting mediocre Toyotas is all I’m going to amount to.

----------


## haggis88

> I drove a minivan for years from 16 to 20 some good memories hauling friends around etc. 
> 
> Is there still a barebones minivan out there lol I remember dodge caravan canada value pack it was like $20k



Chrysler Grand Caravan now

Starts at $43k

----------


## XylathaneGTR

> Interesting. We're doing our first CVT. I'm not big on them but I think it'll be good for her. Fingers crossed.



I've heard nissan CVTs are especially shitty, but other brands aren't too bad reliability-wise. Could just be internet BS though, I haven't really bothered to look into it yet. Can anyone back up that statement?

----------


## rage2

> I've heard nissan CVTs are especially shitty, but other brands aren't too bad reliability-wise. Could just be internet BS though, I haven't really bothered to look into it yet. Can anyone back up that statement?



The older belt driven CVTs had a finite life and felt like a sponge. The newer generation eCVTs are much simpler (from a cvt perspective), offer a more direct drive, and uses motors to vary the infinite gear ratios. 

edit - It's pretty wild how different they are. I watched these videos a while back.

Belt CVT:




eCVT (Toyota Hybrid):

----------


## tonytiger55

> I've heard nissan CVTs are especially shitty, but other brands aren't too bad reliability-wise. Could just be internet BS though, I haven't really bothered to look into it yet. Can anyone back up that statement?



Nissians CVTs were bad. They were made by Jatco. They supplied other manufacturers. 

Generally CVTS are reliable. Issues with the CVT was not always related to the CVT itself. Honda makes thier own CVT. The issue of the CVT was how the engine got to the torque needed for the CVT. The 2.4L K series was not designed for the CVT. Honda addressed with with the new 1.5T engine (my god it is glorious)
Toyota's do not neccesarilay use CVT't not because they are bad, but more to do with thier design philosophy. Toyota uses old tech. 

Quoted from the Honda CRV forum. Someone replied with a good addition to my post which was answering the same question. 




> Great post Tony_Tiger. (y) (y) 
> 
> One additional comment to add about CVTs... they thrive on torque. Torque is what powers them efficiently and effectively. 
> 
> With the release of the 1.5T engine, Honda produced for the first time an engine purpose built to feed rich amounts of torque to the CVT across almost the entire rpm range of the engine (beginning at 1800rpm). As a result, there is seldom need to stomp the throttle to gain additional driving force on the wheels. The 1.5T will provide a smooth flat full torque load to the CVT from ~1800rpm all the way to 5000 rpm. As such there is seldom any struggling of the CVT to adjust to seek more torque. The 1.5T works much more smoothly and better with a CVT than the older 2.4L classics from Honda.
> 
> A CVT + engine pairing where the engine cannot provide sufficient torque to the CVT unless the engine is pushed to high rpms is where most CVT issues have come about in the industry in recent years. A classic symptom of a poorly mated CVT + engine is when the driver must stomp on the gas to push up the rpm to gain sufficient torque for a CVT that is struggling to put traction to the wheels effeciently. 
> 
> Note: this does not mean CVTs can be used in heavy load situations (like trucks) as you noted, it simply means that they perform optimally when they are fed proper torque from the engine they are paired with. For severe load and driving conditions, a standard gear shift automatic or stick shift is still the preferred transmission and likely will be for years to come.

----------


## rage2

> Nissians CVTs were bad. They were made by Jatco. They supplied other manufacturers. 
> 
> Generally CVTS are reliable. Issues with the CVT was not always related to the CVT itself. Honda makes thier own CVT. The issue of the CVT was how the engine got to the torque needed for the CVT. The 2.4L K series was not designed for the CVT. Honda addressed with with the new 1.5T engine (my god it is glorious)
> Toyota's do not neccesarilay use CVT't not because they are bad, but more to do with thier design philosophy. Toyota uses old tech. 
> 
> Quoted from the Honda CRV forum. Someone replied with a good addition to my post which was answering the same question.



In theory, you shouldn’t need to mate an engine to a cvt. The purpose of infinite gear ratios is that it can maximize an engines narrow efficiency range or outright power at a specific rpm. It’s just that belt drive cvts do a shitty job of it. Having an engine with a wide power band really masks the problems with belt cvts. Funny enough, Toyota actually addresses the problem with their low speed direct drive gear to minimize the sponge effect, at least at the start. Response times still suck once going like every other belt cvt. 

Ecvts fixes a lot of the problems, but really only works in a hybrid drivetrain.

----------


## tonytiger55

> In theory, you shouldn’t need to mate an engine to a cvt. The purpose of infinite gear ratios is that it can maximize an engines narrow efficiency range or outright power at a specific rpm. It’s just that belt drive cvts do a shitty job of it. Having an engine with a wide power band really masks the problems with belt cvts. Funny enough, Toyota actually addresses the problem with their low speed direct drive gear to minimize the sponge effect, at least at the start. Response times still suck once going like every other belt cvt. 
> 
> Ecvts fixes a lot of the problems, but really only works in a hybrid drivetrain.



I agree. Thats the theory. I think it was also a case of emissions and fuel economy. 
From standing When one puts their footdown on the gas. The SUV with CVT does not jump forward. There is a delay. This can be a issue when cutting across traffic. 
Toyota addressed with with that low speed gear that hands over to the CVT. But I just changed my driving style with this. 

I drove a RAV4 from Edmonton to Jasper (regular auto transmission) over three days. On one occasion a truck was veering into our lane. I put my footdown to get out of that situation. The Rav 4 in typical style roared, high revs and gave a thrust of accelaration. It scared everyone and woke up my friends kid in the back. 

Then I drove back to Calgary in my CRV (CVT). On highway driving I think the CVT (Hodnas 1.5 Turbo) is better, it has a waay smoother power delivery. It goes pretty quick too. The acceleration and delivery of that power felt much smother and controlled when putting the footdown. 

I think one does have to change the driving style to the CVT.

----------


## BavarianBeast

> Saw this 2018 Lamborghini Aventador on autoTRADER.ca's iPhone app 
> http://www.autotrader.ca/go/5-51361011
> 
> 2022 Evo would be delivered by Jan- potentially feb (incurring 10% tax). Leaning toward the v12 at this point, it’s not much more and is the natural progression from V8 —> V10 —> V12... 
> 
> I think the evo would hold value near term, but may not hold as well as the Aventador over 5+ years. Tough call.



From page 9 (that aventador was $260k)… bought the v10 EVO, dodged the 10% tax and was just offered $120k over what I paid for it, but still would have done better on the aventador haha. Crazy market

----------


## R-Audi

So did you sell?? Thats a heck of a return for driving it in the summer and sell before winter.

----------


## BavarianBeast

I turned it down today, too much in love with it. Sounds like the successor for the huracan will be a v8 TT, so they should hold their value for a long time to come imo.

----------


## brucebanner

That would've been a difficult decision, I probably would've sold  :ROFL!:

----------


## shakalaka

> From page 9 (that aventador was $260k)… bought the v10 EVO, dodged the 10% tax and was just offered $120k over what I paid for it, but still would have done better on the aventador haha. Crazy market



Fuck I miss the $260K Aventador days. Should have, would have, could have. That's life.

----------


## killramos

I don’t really feel like I am missing out on anything right now.

Would it be nice if things were cheaper? Sure. But I can’t say the current cost/supply have a big impact on my life. 

I like to feel good about my purchases, I doubt I would feel good about buying most anything these days.

----------


## 03ozwhip

> I’m semi seriously looking for another car but I’ve decided to stick to used Toyotas for a while. Next up an ISF to replace the 335d, eventually a beater GR86 to replace my FRS and maybe a manual A90 down the road too in a few years.



That 335d has given you nothing but issues, no?

----------


## Nufy

Wife wants a new vehicle...wont settle for used.

I just know I'm gonna over pay for something soon...




> I don’t really feel like I am missing out on anything right now.
> 
> Would it be nice if things were cheaper? Sure. But I can’t say the current cost/supply have a big impact on my life. 
> 
> I like to feel good about my purchases, I doubt I would feel good about buying most anything these days.

----------


## vengie

> Wife wants a new vehicle...wont settle for used.
> 
> I just know I'm gonna over pay for something soon...



Have you considered a new wife?
Might be the cheaper option.

----------


## killramos

> Have you considered a new wife?
> Might be the cheaper option.



I’ve heard the depreciation on wives is unprecedented. Great way to lose your shirt.

----------


## max_boost

> Wife wants a new vehicle...wont settle for used.
> 
> I just know I'm gonna over pay for something soon...



Just make sure it takes regular gas lol

- - - Updated - - -




> I turned it down today, too much in love with it. Sounds like the successor for the huracan will be a v8 TT, so they should hold their value for a long time to come imo.



Haha niiice

----------


## ExtraSlow

Getting rid of one wife might be the right financial decision, but buying a second one is a terrible idea unless she makes $600k or has #7point2 net worth.

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> Wife wants a new vehicle...wont settle for used.
> 
> I just know I'm gonna over pay for something soon...



How do you define overpay tho? Buying new is a better decision than buying used if you can get it at MSRP. which most cars you can still.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Used cars are mostly a bad value right now. Honestly new isn't as bad as the legends say. 
And I'm a cheap bastard.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> That 335d has given you nothing but issues, no?



The car hasnt been so bad but Ive had some shops do poor work on some components and Im just done with the car. I drive my Echo in town, my FRS on track and my Elantra for work.

----------


## 03ozwhip

> The car hasn’t been so bad but I’ve had some shops do poor work on some components and I’m just done with the car. I drive my Echo in town, my FRS on track and my Elantra for work.



Is it good now?

----------


## ragu

I think the market is slowing down already, and more to go. I recently sold my car and didn’t see the $ people were getting at the beginning of the year but still sold flat to 2020 price. Meanwhile, the cars I was interested to replace it with were sitting on the market and eventually getting sold to dealers - who are still paying somewhat decent coin and/ offering quick sale.

Maybe we hit 2020 pricing by year end?

----------


## Nufy

> How do you define overpay tho? Buying new is a better decision than buying used if you can get it at MSRP. which most cars you can still.



Agreed. It just seems that even new cars are a bit over priced.

Then some dealers are adding their mark-up for no reason.

Right now I am looking at a Honda HRV AWD at around 35K at a dealer.

----------


## jutes

> I think the market is slowing down already, and more to go. I recently sold my car and didn’t see the $ people were getting at the beginning of the year but still sold flat to 2020 price. Meanwhile, the cars I was interested to replace it with were sitting on the market and eventually getting sold to dealers - who are still paying somewhat decent coin and/ offering quick sale.
> 
> Maybe we hit 2020 pricing by year end?



I'm watching the ZL1 market and used ones are still going for $80-$90k, new ones are arriving at dealers in the 70s. Not sure when this madness will end, probably sooner rather than later. In 2019-20 you can pick up a lightly used one for low/mid 60s.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Is it good now?



It will be soon, and for sale. Waiting on a couple small things to finish it up this month.

----------


## 16hypen3sp

Getting back briefly to the luxury tax... I'm assuming the luxury tax dollar amount will be worked into lease payments? 

And if you buy the car out at the end of the lease, you pay the buy out amount + remainder of luxury tax amount?

----------


## killramos

I’m guessing it has no effect on the residual, so the amortized amount on the lease would simple be more as well as the resulting payment.

Whoever leases the car is paying the full lux tax

----------


## max_boost

Totally forgot Bc has had this for awhile. they’ll just be paying even more !? Lol dang those bc ballers 

Add 5% gst to the dealer sales

----------


## nismodrifter

In BC we do not deposit our pay cheque. That would be a total waste of time. Arranging it so all your hard earned income goes direct to government is the streamlined way of doing it.

It is because taxing the shit out of everything is surely the best solution to stop that darn money laundering that those foreigners do. 

 :facepalm:

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

Yep. Friend of a friend's purchase of a new Porsche GT2RS was $500k when dust (tax) settled.
BertStare.jpg

----------


## Nufy

Bank financing vs dealer rates...

Which is better these days.

Generally ??

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Bank financing vs dealer rates...
> 
> Which is better these days.
> 
> Generally ??



Depends on your relationship with the bank and any manufacture incentives for financing.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Yeah no blanket answer. Start calling around. Or just heloc.

----------


## heavyD

> In BC we do not deposit our pay cheque. That would be a total waste of time. Arranging it so all your hard earned income goes direct to government is the streamlined way of doing it.
> 
> It is because taxing the shit out of everything is surely the best solution to stop that darn money laundering that those foreigners do.



The government has to make money somehow. I know a bunch of people that live in BC spread out from the Kootenays, Okanagan, Vancouver Island and almost all of them just work part time and a some of them by choice because they went granola.

----------


## M.alex

Did they ever indicate how they plan to get people for their luxury ~accessories improvement~ tax?
https://driving.ca/auto-news/industr...in-accessories

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Did they ever indicate how they plan to get people for their luxury ~accessories improvement~ tax?
> https://driving.ca/auto-news/industr...in-accessories



Dude. Is this yours?  :Burn Out:  :Love: 
https://kulumotorcar.com/cars/shelby...csx6000-series

----------


## JustinL

> Did they ever indicate how they plan to get people for their luxury ~accessories improvement~ tax?
> https://driving.ca/auto-news/industr...in-accessories



I think the only way that could happen is for dealer installed options. No way they will be able to enforce anything else.

----------


## jutes

> I think the only way that could happen is for dealer installed options. No way they will be able to enforce anything else.



There is no enforcement on anything, cops won't care nor will they have time for it. You can buy your Porsche on a Monday and have the dealer install the "accessories" on another day without any tax on separate invoices.

----------


## R-Audi

More than you can afford Pal... Toyota.

https://kulumotorcar.com/cars/toyota...er-sr5-trd-pro


Ridiculous.

----------


## roopi

> More than you can afford Pal... Toyota.
> 
> https://kulumotorcar.com/cars/toyota...er-sr5-trd-pro
> 
> 
> Ridiculous.



People are dumb

----------


## vengie

> People are dumb



Lots of dumb people have a lot of money.

----------


## DonJuan

:facepalm:

----------


## killramos

‘Member when that was called discount green?

----------


## riander5

Just sold our Q5 the other day... paid $23k for it during summer 2020, sold for $22.5 two years later with 30,000 more kms on it

----------


## M.alex

> Dude. Is this yours? 
> https://kulumotorcar.com/cars/shelby...csx6000-series



no, but if they sell that for $200k I want $500k for mine ... i've got more billet suspension pieces, less weight, more horsepower and a supersnake scoop

----------


## max_boost

> Lots of dumb people have a lot of money.



I love capitalism lol

----------


## DonJuan

> Just sold our Q5 the other day... paid $23k for it during summer 2020, sold for $22.5 two years later with 30,000 more kms on it



Got a call last week from the dealership we bought the wife's SUV from (Used). Sounded desperate. Wants to buy the car back for $6k more than what we paid, 30k km more on it.

Was trying to negotiate a trade for a lightly used SRT Durango they had. The wife killed it when he mentioned the V8 powa. So close.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> Got a call last week from the dealership we bought the wife's SUV from (Used). Sounded desperate. Wants to buy the car back for $6k more than what we paid, 30k km more on it.
> 
> Was trying to negotiate a trade for a lightly used SRT Durango they had. The wife killed it when he mentioned the V8 powa. So close.



Can you negotiate trading in the wife as well? Dodge is also bringing back the Hellcat Durango for 2023…….

----------


## DonJuan

> Can you negotiate trading in the wife as well? ...



I'm gonna need volunteers for an obituary thread.

----------


## Buster

> I'm gonna need volunteers for an obituary thread.



DonJuan

[2003-2022]

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> no, but if they sell that for $200k I want $500k for mine ... i've got more billet suspension pieces, less weight, more horsepower and a supersnake scoop



You got more pics? It's one of my favourite classics!  :Love:

----------


## haggis88

> Got a call last week from the dealership we bought the wife's SUV from (Used). Sounded desperate. Wants to buy the car back for $6k more than what we paid, 30k km more on it.
> 
> Was trying to negotiate a trade for a lightly used SRT Durango they had. The wife killed it when he mentioned the V8 powa. So close.



I fuckin wish!

Can't give mine away, bought the wrong thing at the wrong time yet again!

----------


## vengie

> You got more pics? It's one of my favourite classics!



*Insert towel rack bicep picture here*

----------


## 03ozwhip

> Got a call last week from the dealership we bought the wife's SUV from (Used). Sounded desperate. Wants to buy the car back for $6k more than what we paid, 30k km more on it.
> 
> Was trying to negotiate a trade for a lightly used SRT Durango they had. The wife killed it when he mentioned the V8 powa. So close.



Man I drove the SRT Durango before I bought my X5 and ya that thing from a dig is sickening. Too trucky for me though.

----------


## DonJuan

> Man I drove the SRT Durango before I bought my X5 and ya that thing from a dig is sickening. Too trucky for me though.



I didn't even get to see it in person for test drive  :Cry: 

I had the wife sold on more roominess and styling etc. No coming back from 6.4L V8 even though the guy mentioned the MDS yadda yadda.

----------


## ExtraSlow

As a low class guy, the Durango is a good minivan alternative. V

----------


## redline

How did this thread get to 57 pages … it should been a one word answer 

Yes / closed

----------


## DonJuan

Might be ending though, dealers are starting to get stock in and lots are slowly filling up. Maybe by November?

Feb '23? Best time ever to buy a car thread? Maybe

----------


## killramos

I’m thinking 2023 might be a very different year.

Not sure what the timing lag will be for the true fire sale of underwater purchases though. That can take a while to fester.

----------


## Buster

> Might be ending though, dealers are starting to get stock in and lots are slowly filling up. Maybe by November?
> 
> Feb '23? Best time ever to buy a car thread? Maybe



every dealer ive talked to about random cars in the past year has reached out to me.

----------


## jutes

> every dealer ive talked to about random cars in the past year has reached out to me.



Waiting until next year for the PathfinderQX70?

----------


## Buster

> Waiting until next year for the PathfinderQX70?



I've expanded a bit. I was waiting for the Defender 130....but it looks like it doesn't come with captains chairs. I'm actually going to take a look at an Aviator this week because a friend insists. Otherwise, I'll let my family continue to thrash the current ride as long as I can resist getting them something new to destroy and disrespect.

----------


## heavyD

> Might be ending though, dealers are starting to get stock in and lots are slowly filling up. Maybe by November?
> 
> Feb '23? Best time ever to buy a car thread? Maybe



There's bound to be some overcorrection in the market but I think the best time will be until late 2023 or 2024 depending on how many more outbreaks affect China supply chains going forward. We will likely hit a point in a couple of years where the chip supply will outgain vs demand with new manufacturing facilities opening around the world between 2024 and 2025. It will be interesting to see which automakers have learned valuable lessons during the last few years and which ones will go right back to operating like it's 2020.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> I've expanded a bit. I was waiting for the Defender 130....but it looks like it doesn't come with captains chairs. I'm actually going to take a look at an Aviator this week because a friend insists. Otherwise, I'll let my family continue to thrash the current ride as long as I can resist getting them something new to destroy and disrespect.



Wat?!
I thought you sealed the deal on that Infiniti! There was a post somewhere that certainly seemed to indicate that.

----------


## Buster

> Wat?!
> I thought you sealed the deal on that Infiniti! There was a post somewhere that certainly seemed to indicate that.



if so, that version of Buster was lying.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Inflation will ensure prices never come down. Another 20% in the next 2 years seems likely. Base model civic will be $60k.

----------


## jutes

> I've expanded a bit. I was waiting for the Defender 130....but it looks like it doesn't come with captains chairs. I'm actually going to take a look at an Aviator this week because a friend insists. Otherwise, I'll let my family continue to thrash the current ride as long as I can resist getting them something new to destroy and disrespect.



Oh wow, Aviator prices are pushing close to $90k. Not sure how I feel about purchasing a sheep in wolf's clothing. I'd save a bunch of cash and pick up an Explorer ST.

----------


## killramos

Planning for inflation is a fools errand. 

Nominally I think 2023 will be a healthier market than 2022 or 2021 have been

- - - Updated - - -




> Oh wow, Aviator prices are pushing close to $90k. Not sure how I feel about purchasing a sheep in wolf's clothing. I'd save a bunch of cash and pick up an Explorer ST.



Not a lot of cars these days that aren’t brand engineered anyway

----------


## Buster

> Oh wow, Aviator prices are pushing close to $90k. Not sure how I feel about purchasing a sheep in wolf's clothing. I'd save a bunch of cash and pick up an Explorer ST.



Same as Infiniti and every other non BMW and Mercedes. Tell it to my wife

----------


## Neil4Speed

> Same as Infiniti and every other non BMW and Mercedes. Tell it to my wife



I'm hoping it is a QX4... 

 :Pimpin':

----------


## killramos

lol

----------


## DonJuan

90k above MSRP? Why was that signed? This is not the overpay for shit thread sir.

----------


## killramos

Corvette people lol

----------


## BavarianBeast

Thats insane! I know a guy who just picked up a used 1LT convertible for $125k. Pretty sure thats like $40k over MSRP? People are crazy right now haha.

----------


## killramos

Apparently that corvette is quite the talk of the town down in Houston.

Dealer got quite the pp slap from GM over it.

----------


## 90_Shelby

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a4...e-z06-at-msrp/

----------


## shakalaka

Dealerships are assholes and people are dumb.

----------


## max_boost

But but but capitalism!

----------


## SKR

In the event that the customer does not take delivery, this fee will be utilized for the fucking what? This car is in such high demand we're asking $90,000 over MSRP, but also it's so hard to sell it's going to cost us $6000 to sell it to another person that's on the waiting list that we definitely have.

----------


## M.alex

> https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a4...e-z06-at-msrp/



I'd rather pay $100k dealer markup on a new z06 than $100k dealer markup on a Nissan Z that has a yellow shifter, seats and calipers, lol

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a4...dealer-markup/

----------


## DonJuan

Lol I saw this and hoped nobody else did.

Fuking Dealerships. LOL

----------


## heavyD

> I'd rather pay $100k dealer markup on a new z06 than $100k dealer markup on a Nissan Z that has a yellow shifter, seats and calipers, lol
> 
> https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a4...dealer-markup/



The moment the buyer drives off the lot he loses $100k. Even if you look past the fact that the car has been widely panned as a disappointment, once enough of them are made, used values will plummet.

----------


## killramos

So… prettty standard corvette buying experience?

----------


## Buster

> So… prettty standard corvette buying experience?



new Z
Corvette
911

Basically identical prospective buyers.

----------


## mr2mike

> new Z
> Corvette
> 911
> 
> Basically identical prospective buyers.



Small hands.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> new Z
> Corvette
> 911
> 
> Basically identical prospective buyers.




There’s apparently a lot more in common with these prospective buyers and Ridgeline owners then I ever would have guessed…. Mullet, check, white sun glasses, check, New Balance, check.



But out of the 4 options, Z, Corvette, 911 or Ridgeline, which is the most “builder grade” option?

----------


## killramos

Builder grade? Like who of those is most like a sleezy home builder?

I dunno. Ask yourself who is most likely to push and nickle and and dime buyers for silly cosmetic upgrades?

I wonder how much a yellow stitched front door would cost…

----------


## BavarianBeast

$9000 for seats and another $1200 for the headrest lambo shield. 

Worth it.

----------


## mr2mike

> $9000 for seats and another $1200 for the headrest lambo shield. 
> 
> Worth it.



How much to remove the Italian flag stitching?

----------


## Shlade

I want to have enough money some day that I can go and 3m a large portion of my new car without worrying about it.


Kind of like spending $10,200 on fancier seats on my Lambo

----------


## 90_Shelby

> $9000 for seats and another $1200 for the headrest lambo shield. 
> 
> Worth it.




Pfffft Junk! Nobody cares unless it’s a Ridgeline, a true drivers car.. Step it up!

----------


## BavarianBeast

Hahah. To be honest, mclaren seems to be one of the worst in terms of gouging for options. Though I’ve never tried to build a Ferrari before.

----------


## Buster

> Hahah. To be honest, mclaren seems to be one of the worst in terms of gouging for options. Though I’ve never tried to build a Ferrari before.



I think Mclaren and Ferrari are about the same - hilariously overpriced external plastic....err...carbon fibre, that just makes the car look less classy anyway.

----------


## max_boost

Interesting did not know lol I looked at a new 911 turbo and thought, can I have no options lol just whatever the car comes with is fine hahaha

----------


## Buster

> Interesting did not know lol I looked at a new 911 turbo and thought, can I have no options lol just whatever the car comes with is fine hahaha



the best 911 is an absolute stripper that has no options.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> the best 911 is an absolute stripper that has no options.



Builder grade for the win????

----------


## max_boost

When I had my 08 turbo, it was builder grade tiptronic. I don’t think it had any options lol

----------


## XylathaneGTR

Way back in the day a friend of mine had a builder grade e46 325i; didn't even have a sunroof, and we all made fun of him for it. What's the pricepoint / performance gradient at which builder grade becomes good?

----------


## msommers

I love how Builder-Grade and Fully-Loaded are known quantities on Beyond when it comes to optioning out vehicles.

Despite how the name suggests, we know Fully-Loaded isn't the top, so lets put our thinking coupes on and get to work.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> ... so lets put our thinking coupes on and get to work.



 a very choice turn of phrase, my good sir.

----------


## haggis88

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/Acura/In...B37lsJyjMInQMU

Wtf is this nonsense

----------


## riander5

> https://www.autotrader.ca/a/Acura/In...B37lsJyjMInQMU
> 
> Wtf is this nonsense



That is a pretty sweet car. Me, personally id say its worth 35-40. My unprofessional but very subjective opinion

----------


## XylathaneGTR

> https://www.autotrader.ca/a/Acura/In...B37lsJyjMInQMU
> 
> Wtf is this nonsense



I think this explains it...

----------


## mr2mike

The Freeland Tax comes in effect today.
RIP middle class as the wealthy conduct luxury vehicle sales outside Canadian land.

----------


## heavyD

> https://www.autotrader.ca/a/Acura/In...B37lsJyjMInQMU
> 
> Wtf is this nonsense



I didn't realize some JDM cars came with MiniDisc as OEM. I liked MiniDisc. Car is missing some lower console trim and while it's cleaned up the interior plastics are badly faded. Honda fanboys get pretty crazy when it comes to Type R's so I imagine someone will pay in the $40's for it.

----------


## 88CRX

Crazy that DC5-R's were half that price landed a decade ago haha. 

Also started dabbling in maybe upgrading the wife's Honda Fit to something newer.... A) holy shit are used Fits going for crack money, and B) ouch on new vehicle finance rates and obviously no discounts. A new HRV Sport is pushing $38k out the door. What in the sweet fuck!

----------


## rage2

> I didn't realize some JDM cars came with MiniDisc as OEM. I liked MiniDisc.



Back in university, I had a friend who had a Mustang with an OEM ford MD player. Super rare shit in Canada. All my cars in the 90's was aftermarket MD. It was pretty much standard fare in Japan, MD completely replacing CDs being more portable, robust, and shock proof. No clue why it never took off here.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Back in university, I had a friend who had a Mustang with an OEM ford MD player. Super rare shit in Canada. All my cars in the 90's was aftermarket MD. It was pretty much standard fare in Japan, MD completely replacing CDs being more portable, robust, and shock proof. No clue why it never took off here.

----------


## mr2mike

Ya but you never had the luxury of a calculator in your dash.
Why didn't that catch on with all the marths to do in high school?!

----------


## haggis88

> Back in university, I had a friend who had a Mustang with an OEM ford MD player. Super rare shit in Canada. All my cars in the 90's was aftermarket MD. It was pretty much standard fare in Japan, MD completely replacing CDs being more portable, robust, and shock proof. No clue why it never took off here.



I was a minidisc fanboi, had one all through secondary school (2000-2006)

In about 2011, I got a JDM Eunos NA6 and it had the classic JDM minidisc deck that every japanese guy must have bought in the late 90s/early 00s...I was devastated to find it wouldn't play any of my old MDs, which I still have to this day

----------


## HiSpec

> 



I had to ask (pretty much begged) my cousin in HK to send me a MD player. By the time it got to my door, the total cost was equivalent to 4 Panasonic Shockwave discman.

It was worth every penny.

----------


## max_boost

> https://www.autotrader.ca/a/Acura/In...B37lsJyjMInQMU
> 
> Wtf is this nonsense



my dream car 20 years ago lol

----------


## rage2

> I had to ask (pretty much begged) my cousin in HK to send me a MD player. By the time it got to my door, the total cost was equivalent to 4 Panasonic Shockwave discman.
> 
> It was worth every penny.



Ditto. I did get the home deck locally from Loyalty Sound tho.

----------


## ExtraSlow

I recorded my university lectures onto a minidisc player and listened to darude on it during breaks. Fuck yeah.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

I recorded an entire WEEN concert on MD with a pretty decent microphone and uploaded it to their bootleg site.

*They have open recording policy.

----------


## riander5

> my dream car 20 years ago lol



I grabbed a '13 MDX a month ago... had to floor it on the highway from a stop the other day.

VTEC kicked in.. I now want this type R

----------


## BavarianBeast

So whats the best way to dodge the luxury tax? 

Buy a property in Montana and buy vehicles south of the border/register them down south?

Great way to shoot yourself in the foot, Canada.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Property in Montana is already a smart idea. I love Montana.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

The Duttons own most of it. Best to marry Beth. 
I'm on it. Gonna work in some practice swings.

----------


## BavarianBeast

I’ll start looking too. 

Just drove through Leavenworth, Washington. Weird town trying to be German but beautiful and some of the homes outside it were incredible for under $1m.

----------


## Buster

> So what’s the best way to dodge the luxury tax? 
> 
> .



Ridgeline baby

----------


## you&me

> So whats the best way to dodge the luxury tax? 
> 
> Buy a property in Montana and buy vehicles south of the border/register them down south?
> 
> Great way to shoot yourself in the foot, Canada.



No buying property required... The vast majority of guys doing this simply register a Montana LLC. 

Very different though for a Canadian resident to pull off buying a US car under a MT LLC and driving the car in Canada... Lots of very rich guys, with lots of resources and motivation ($ on $$$$$$$$ cars) haven't been able to pull it off. 

That said, I think our very own 
@rage2
 did something like this with his CLK BS...

----------


## max_boost

> So what’s the best way to dodge the luxury tax? 
> 
> Buy a property in Montana and buy vehicles south of the border/register them down south?
> 
> Great way to shoot yourself in the foot, Canada.



I love this so much. Let us know how it goes haha

----------


## shakalaka

All you need is a US address, so rent or buy a derelict property for cheap AF and you’re good to go.

----------


## killramos

> So what’s the best way to dodge the luxury tax? 
> 
> Buy a property in Montana and buy vehicles south of the border/register them down south?
> 
> Great way to shoot yourself in the foot, Canada.



Better yet. Cut the whole Canada part of it out of the equation.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

Got $2400 more than I paid for 335d after 21 months, downside is that’s still a pretty large loss still due to multiple shops diagnosing it incorrectly and causing major un needed repairs to be undertaken.

----------


## BavarianBeast

> Better yet. Cut the whole Canada part of it out of the equation.



I’m pretty close to getting out. “Home” in Washington or Montana and “vacation property” in whistler is becoming the plan. Just have to find the right spots.

Anyways, the market seems to just be getting worse. Saw a targa 4s come up for sale at $220,000 today from August. Just bonkers.

----------


## shakalaka

TBH I find August and Sherwood Motorcars as one of the biggest rip-off dealerships. Almost everything they sell is way too obviously overpriced.

----------


## BavarianBeast

Yeah they’re a bunch of wankers and I wouldn’t suggest doing anything with them. 

Needed to store my car for a few days instead of the airport and came back to find +25km on my huracan despite them promising to keep it “on location”. Clowns.

----------


## shakalaka

Yea the way I see them mark-up the cars so shamelessly, it's insane. I get that it's a dealership and make money, but have an iota of shame. Surprisingly people keep keeping them in business. They recently listed (not sure if sold now) a Aston Martin Vantage F1 edition for 259K, having paid 179K for it. I guess it's a business who wouldn't wanna maximize their profit if they can and if people are going to fall of it. I dunno just rubs me the wrong way, makes me never want to deal with them even though I do have a guy there.

----------


## Buster

But....but ....but the DDE guys say they're cool!

----------


## BavarianBeast

Matt August is about as cool as drinking a white claw on a super air nautique

----------


## Buster

> Matt August is about as cool as drinking a white claw on a super air nautique



to be fair, your lambo is fucking awesome, and if you stored it at my house, it would magically get some miles on it.

----------


## max_boost

> Yeah they’re a bunch of wankers and I wouldn’t suggest doing anything with them. 
> 
> Needed to store my car for a few days instead of the airport and came back to find +25km on my huracan despite them promising to keep it “on location”. Clowns.



Oh man fk those guys. That’s so violating.

----------


## DonJuan

"Who doesn't love a Targa?"

$220k for a 4s? Many people apparently do not love a Targa.

----------


## killramos

Isnt the logic the opposite?

If they can charge 220k for a 4S clearly not enough people are telling them to fuck off

----------


## max_boost

Lol ppl are richer than ever. $100k type R, $220k C4S. What a time to be alive.

----------


## rage2

> No buying property required... The vast majority of guys doing this simply register a Montana LLC. 
> 
> Very different though for a Canadian resident to pull off buying a US car under a MT LLC and driving the car in Canada... Lots of very rich guys, with lots of resources and motivation ($ on $$$$$$$$ cars) haven't been able to pull it off. 
> 
> That said, I think our very own 
> @rage2
>  did something like this with his CLK BS...



Things tightened up quite a bit now. You need a US drivers license, Montana was kinda lax when I did it, just needed proof of residence to transfer my AB license to Montana. Now, you need a SSN. It's also problematic at the border driving or shipping the car up with a US title. If you don't have a reason to live in the US, Canada won't let you through, or will make you put down a bond to enter Canada, which you will lose if you don't get the car out after 6 months or so.

Long story short, it's not worth it. Might as well buy in US and stay in the US as 
@killramos
 says.

----------


## Buster

> Things tightened up quite a bit now. You need a US drivers license, Montana was kinda lax when I did it, just needed proof of residence to transfer my AB license to Montana. Now, you need a SSN. It's also problematic at the border driving or shipping the car up with a US title. If you don't have a reason to live in the US, Canada won't let you through, or will make you put down a bond to enter Canada, which you will lose if you don't get the car out after 6 months or so.
> 
> Long story short, it's not worth it. Might as well buy in US and stay in the US as 
> @killramos
>  says.



But Canada has "free" healthcare.

----------


## SilverRex

Went into Lexus Royal Oak and asked about the the NX450h+. Was told it is a 3 year wait. NX350 Hybrid about 9 months and regular NX350 around 6 months. Sales guy says it all depends on what parts Lexus can get their hands on. He showed me a stack of paperwork with orders for 2022 deliveries that now he has to phone the buyer to cancel or if they are willing to move to 2023.

What are crappy time to buy a car.

----------


## killramos

I’ll sell you a normal nx300 with doors that work. 60k. Best price.

----------


## BavarianBeast

> Long story short, it's not worth it. Might as well buy in US and stay in the US as 
> @killramos
>  says.



So, does anyone know a good tax lawyer?

----------


## Buster

> So, does anyone know a good tax lawyer?



Tax lawyers are some of the most expensive lawyers out there...and they will end up telling you to just pay the tax.

----------


## bjstare

> Tax lawyers are some of the most expensive lawyers out there...and they will end up telling you to just pay the tax.



My wife’s dad was a tax lawyer; can confirm.

----------


## mr2mike

> So whats the best way to dodge the luxury tax? 
> 
> Buy a property in Montana and buy vehicles south of the border/register them down south?
> 
> Great way to shoot yourself in the foot, Canada.



This is what Californian's already do.

----------


## sabad66

Looking at getting into a bigger vehicle, thought we would test drive a Kia Telluride. Finished the test drive and then get to talking price. They want 64k plus taxes for a used 2021 with 27k km on it. Looked up msrp for the same unit 2023 brand new and it’s 55,500. 

I had an idea that things were fucked based on this thread, but never ever in a million years did I think used kias would be 9k over msrp of brand new. Thankfully we aren’t in a huge rush and didn’t like it THAT much, so wallet is saved for now.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Your fault for driving a used one. And did you just imply that your wife was with you before you knew the price? That's either brave or stupid.

----------


## vengie

I have a gently used Hyundai Tucson that I'd reluctantly sell for $93k if you're interested.

----------


## killramos

So what’s my X5 worth?

A quarter mil?

----------


## vengie

Anybody with an X5 can say they paid $93k for it, but a rare few can say they paid $93k for a Hyundai Tucson #exclusiveclub

----------


## jutes

We are in a bizarro world vehicle market.

----------


## sabad66

> Your fault for driving a used one. And did you just imply that your wife was with you before you knew the price? That's either brave or stupid.



Honestly it was stupid lol…we were in the area and I phoned them on a whim to see if they had one in stock without bothering to ask for asking price. Of course they told me they JUST got one in and to rush over as the last used one they had sold in two days. Allegedly.

----------


## ExtraSlow



----------


## max_boost

> Anybody with an X5 can say they paid $93k for it, but a rare few can say they paid $93k for a Hyundai Tucson #exclusiveclub



Exactly

Tucson > X5 Idc if it's X5M or M Sport package or Inrich package or 89coupe full loaded sans tech package.

----------


## BavarianBeast

Things are coming down, and they’re going to tank over the next few months I’d say. February will be the time to buy cars imo

----------


## riander5

Unloaded my BMW for near break even after buying in feb and got a recession buster!

Praise da lord

----------


## RX_EVOLV

Cars like G08 X5 their prices have been coming down for sure since the beginning of the year. We've been following it closely and almost pulled the trigger last week on a 2019 from a BMW dealer in BC that has depreciated 45% from new and with rate 'incentives' (if you count 3.99%).M3/M4 prices have been coming down too. Saw a few '18s in the high 60ks/low 70ks range whereas earlier this year they were >$80ks.

We will see how the next few months go but ready to buy something if the trend continues.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> A buddy just confirmed a July build and November euro delivery for a GT4RS. Apparently some people are getting cars.



He took delivery this week and is touring Europe in the car currently. Im impressed he got the car this fast.

----------


## shakalaka

> Things are coming down, and they’re going to tank over the next few months I’d say. February will be the time to buy cars imo



Only if I can be patient for that long. lol

----------


## Tik-Tok

Just two more months to flatten the curve!

----------


## BerserkerCatSplat

> Just two more months to flatten the curve!



I mean the curve that really got flattened was the depreciation one.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Only if I can be patient for that long. lol



Anyone who doesn't +Rep this hates freedom!

----------


## BavarianBeast

This aventador ultimae has come down $152k, and I imagine it will come down another 1-200k if the seller really wants to unload it. Saw this 2022 Lamborghini Aventador on AutoTrader's iPhone app 
http://www.autotrader.ca/go/5-55394377

Lots of other high end vehicles I’ve been watching have come down significantly and inventory doesn’t seem to be moving much. Bubble is about to burst for a lot of cars imo

----------


## shakalaka

> This aventador ultimae has come down $152k, and I imagine it will come down another 1-200k if the seller really wants to unload it. Saw this 2022 Lamborghini Aventador on AutoTrader's iPhone app 
> http://www.autotrader.ca/go/5-55394377
> 
> Lots of other high end vehicles I’ve been watching have come down significantly and inventory doesn’t seem to be moving much. Bubble is about to burst for a lot of cars imo



It needs to come down another half a million or so before I can think about affording it bro. lol

But on a serious note, let's hope for the market to actually normalize because I have been itching to make some changes again.

----------


## Shlade

Maybe I'm just poor but that does not look like a Million Dollar car.

----------


## BavarianBeast

I think it’s a bit of a stretch now but a few exchanged hands at those levels. It is the last NA V12 Lamborghini produced, so there is a bit of collector value factor involved. 

Anyways, I think the big hits will/have started in the higher end car market and will slowly trickle down into the rest of the market. Just think it’s a good sign of things beginning to slow down.

----------


## redline

The used truck market is starting to soften as well. My business partner has a mint diesel Canyon and the dealer told him that two months ago they would have gave him 30K on a trade in and now 25K. we have it listed for 32K and no interest...

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> The used truck market is starting to soften as well. My business partner has a mint diesel Canyon and the dealer told him that two months ago they would have gave him 30K on a trade in and now 25K. we have it listed for 32K and no interest...



Yep I’ve taken the last two weeks off mostly from buying, only cheap stuff. Book values are on their way down for sure.

----------


## Shlade

> The used truck market is starting to soften as well. My business partner has a mint diesel Canyon and the dealer told him that two months ago they would have gave him 30K on a trade in and now 25K. we have it listed for 32K and no interest...



Thats because nobody wants a Canyon.

----------


## Clever

We were looking at an SUV for the wife, and we drove our 2017 Ram 1500, and when the dealership asked me if I was willing to trade, I told them to make me an offer, so the sales manager makes a call to his wholesaler and came back with 30k I just laughed and said Id keep my truck. Yes, its a Dodge, but barely driven, with about 67K kms, Laramie, Crew Cab trim I can probably get much more than 30k for it.

----------


## zechs

> Thats because nobody wants a Canyon.



Yea, I don't think a niche 1/4 ton truck is the best to gauge the market on. Duramax HD prices have come down very slightly but were way overpriced to begin with.

----------


## Shlade

Went window shopping to check out a Bronco Ford in Strathmore had. Was chatting with the sales guy... Best rates they got is 5.49 for new, and he says anywhere from 7 percent to 9 percent for used vehicles. Pretty insane anybody would pay that.

----------


## killramos

lol your attitude will change when interest rates normalize to those levels.

People will pay big money to have to today rather than save for tomorrow. 5% 10% it doesn’t matter the masses can’t help themselves.

----------


## Buster

> Went window shopping to check out a Bronco Ford in Strathmore had. Was chatting with the sales guy... Best rates they got is 5.49 for new, and he says anywhere from 7 percent to 9 percent for used vehicles. Pretty insane anybody would pay that.



Pretty insane people were buying bonds that had a ytm of 0%.

There's another side to every equation.

----------


## andyg16

What do you guys think will happen with auto finance rates if things do end up slowing down? Up until now I remember there were always great rates to be had regardless of what BoC was doing. I'm leaning towards an MDX for my wife, their rates are shit though.

----------


## heavyD

I remember back in the day financing my Civic at over 6%. We have been kind of spoiled the last decade when it comes to low interest rates.

----------


## Xtrema

> I think its a bit of a stretch now but a few exchanged hands at those levels. It is the last NA V12 Lamborghini produced, so there is a bit of collector value factor involved. 
> 
> Anyways, I think the big hits will/have started in the higher end car market and will slowly trickle down into the rest of the market. Just think its a good sign of things beginning to slow down.



The Japanese may keep this up for awhile yet.

https://jalopnik.com/the-ev-transiti...tha-1849758647




> After more than two years of Covid-related restrictions, drivers are spending money on new cars, while the global shift toward electric vehicles is sparking interest in supercars and the growl of their engines, according to Yasuhiro Suyama, president of the Japan Supercar Association.
> 
> If you dont drive them now, then when? Suyama said.

----------


## killramos

> What do you guys think will happen with auto finance rates if things do end up slowing down? Up until now I remember there were always great rates to be had regardless of what BoC was doing. I'm leaning towards an MDX for my wife, their rates are shit though.



Rates are dictated by powers much bigger than the auto industry.

Sure there will be some rates with below market sticker values, offset by paying more for the vehicle.

During the years of 0% financing it was very often a choice of x% off the car or 0% financing. The effective loan rate works out to market rates once the numbers of deconvolved.

The piper always gets paid.

----------


## Buster

> I remember back in the day financing my Civic at over 6%. We have been kind of spoiled the last decade when it comes to low interest rates.



We have?

Loose monetary and fiscal policy has created the very inflation that everyone is complaining about in this forum and on every street corner. Spoiled by bad policy? I think not.

----------


## Xtrema

> What do you guys think will happen with auto finance rates if things do end up slowing down? Up until now I remember there were always great rates to be had regardless of what BoC was doing. I'm leaning towards an MDX for my wife, their rates are shit though.



You need people to be out of work and stop spending 1st and that ain't happening, at least not yet.

And if you look at historical norms, the decade after 2009 is not the norm compared to the years before it. Current high rate is actually normal if not a bit low still.

Wait til BoC is forced to raise to 6% next year from current 3.75%.

----------


## max_boost

It was fun while it lasted 

While Bavarianbeast and boom shakalaka use lambos as gauges 

I see 911 prices still high, Nsx prices have dropped tho lol

----------


## 90_Shelby

It wasn’t too long ago that you’d be criticized for not carrying any debt, since you could make more with your investments then what your interest payments cost. How well has that worked out, since the market has crashed and interest rates continue to climb? Did everybody manage to cash out before the crash and pay off their debt?

----------


## max_boost

Not me haha but what else is new lol

- - - Updated - - -

This recession hitting me so hard I started dating women who make their own money lol

----------


## Buster

> It wasn’t too long ago that you’d be criticized for not carrying any debt, since you could make more with your investments then what your interest payments cost. How well has that worked out, since the market has crashed and interest rates continue to climb? Did everybody manage to cash out before the crash and pay off their debt?



Timing the market is an excellent investment strategy.

----------


## ExtraSlow

You guys finance?

----------


## 90_Shelby

> Timing the market is an excellent investment strategy.



For clarity, I went the alternate route by carrying no debt, while letting my investments ride.

----------


## max_boost

> You guys finance?



You don’t?

- - - Updated - - -




> For clarity, I went the alternate route by carrying no debt, while letting my investments ride.



No debt life is a chill life

----------


## Buster

> For clarity, I went the alternate route by carrying no debt, while letting my investments ride.



de-leveraging isn't always an optimal decision, but it's rarely a bad decision.

----------


## heavyD

> You guys finance?



At 0% or low interest rates it's a no brainer unless you are filthy rich where you don't need to worry about investments. If you are simply well off or moderately wealthy it would be foolish to tie up $50k+ cash into a depreciating asset like a car if you could pay for it in payments interest free.

----------


## bjstare

> At 0% or low interest rates it's a no brainer unless you are filthy rich where you don't need to worry about investments. If you are simply well off or moderately wealthy it would be foolish to tie up $50k+ cash into a depreciating asset like a car if you could pay for it in payments interest free.



Assuming the purchase price isn't inflated to make up for the lost financing revenue (as mentioned above).

----------


## ExtraSlow

Did I need to use eye rolling emoji next time?

----------


## killramos

> Assuming the purchase price isn't inflated to make up for the lost financing revenue (as mentioned above).



This was a practice that was so prolific a lot of jurisdictions put in rules dictating that the “effective” financing rate had to be disclosed.

----------


## you&me

> This was a practice that was so prolific a lot of jurisdictions put in rules dictating that the effective financing rate had to be disclosed.



Without caring enough to check... But not AMVIC, right?  :ROFL!:

----------


## killramos

I can’t be bothered to keep track of which acronym of regulatory agency is making proclamations this week

----------


## max_boost

> Did I need to use eye rolling emoji next time?



 :Big Grin:  always!!

----------


## heavyD

> Did I need to use eye rolling emoji next time?



I suppose that depends on how much belief you hold in the ability of people to read the minds of others.

----------


## 94boosted

> Wait til BoC is forced to raise to 6% next year from current 3.75%.



That would represent a ~65% increase in monthly mortgage payments when compared to the rates we saw during the good times (March 2020 to Feb 2022). If they did that I suspect we'd have a country wide jingle mail problem in very short order. Even at current rates, I'm surprised many people can still afford their mortgage payment (those on variable mortgages or those that had to renew in the last few months).

----------


## vengie

People are already not paying or defaulting on their payments.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Paying mortgage is highly overrated.

----------


## riander5

US CPI data shows inflation slowing. Not sure we are gonna get to 6% like you doomers are suggesting.

On the other hand, it is still the worst time to buy a new vehicle. Unless its a lambo with cash.

I have a buddy who has somehow secured a RAV4 prime and says the second he takes posession can likely flip it for $80k, representing a ~$15k profit.

----------


## max_boost

> That would represent a ~65% increase in monthly mortgage payments when compared to the rates we saw during the good times (March 2020 to Feb 2022). If they did that I suspect we'd have a country wide jingle mail problem in very short order. Even at current rates, I'm surprised many people can still afford their mortgage payment (those on variable mortgages or those that had to renew in the last few months).



Thought the banks had it under control. Why they approving ppl who can’t afford  :Big Grin:

----------


## spike98

> We were looking at an SUV for the wife, and we drove our 2017 Ram 1500, and when the dealership asked me if I was willing to trade, I told them to make me an offer, so the sales manager makes a call to his wholesaler and came back with 30k I just laughed and said Id keep my truck. Yes, its a Dodge, but barely driven, with about 67K kms, Laramie, Crew Cab trim I can probably get much more than 30k for it.



Im sorry. But I have some bad news for you.

Unless its a limited, loaded, eco diesel, with less than 10k, $30k would have been a solid deal for you.

----------


## jutes

> I have a buddy who has somehow secured a RAV4 prime and says the second he takes posession can likely flip it for $80k, representing a ~$15k profit.



Until he actually flips it and money is in his account, it's all meaningless talk. What will he be driving instead?

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> I’m sorry. But I have some bad news for you….
> 
> Unless it’s a limited, loaded, eco diesel, with less than 10k, $30k would have been a solid deal for you.



His truck is definitely worth more than $30k still in the market.

----------


## max_boost

> Until he actually flips it and money is in his account, it's all meaningless talk. What will he be driving instead?



Hahaha yup. Woulda coulda shoulda max_boost would have 7.2 lol

----------


## spike98

> His truck is definitely worth more than $30k still in the market.



In the market, more yes. Much more? Not a chance. Factor in GST savings and $30k from a dealer is a good deal.

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> We were looking at an SUV for the wife, and we drove our 2017 Ram 1500, and when the dealership asked me if I was willing to trade, I told them to make me an offer, so the sales manager makes a call to his wholesaler and came back with 30k I just laughed and said I’d keep my truck. Yes, it’s a Dodge, but barely driven, with about 67K kms, Laramie, Crew Cab trim I can probably get much more than 30k for it.






> I’m sorry. But I have some bad news for you….
> 
> Unless it’s a limited, loaded, eco diesel, with less than 10k, $30k would have been a solid deal for you.



thats the problem now right. People wants the inflated prices on their trade and cry about the inflated prices of a new one.... You cant have it both ways.

EDIT: is it the one listed for 42k on trader? that's by far the most expensive 2017 Laramie listed.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> In the market, more yes. Much more? Not a chance. Factor in GST savings and $30k from a dealer is a good deal.



Realistically this truck is probably a $34-35k truck if it’s nice and doesn’t have broken manifold bolts of cam and lifted failure lol.

----------


## Xtrema

> That would represent a ~65% increase in monthly mortgage payments when compared to the rates we saw during the good times (March 2020 to Feb 2022). If they did that I suspect we'd have a country wide jingle mail problem in very short order. Even at current rates, I'm surprised many people can still afford their mortgage payment (those on variable mortgages or those that had to renew in the last few months).



US is targeting 4.75 by 2023 and it'll stay there for a few year. That's actually is the norm until Bin Laden flew a couple of planes into WTC. And it reached the same level before 2008 hits. Someone is saying 6% because demand is not being killed fast enough and everyone is still employed.

BoC doesn't have as much room to raise rate because a) we don't have 30 year fixed rate product like Americans and b) our mortgage interest isn't tax deductible. c) we are way more house poor than US. The only thing that got going for us is inflation is somehow lowest other than Japan out of the G7.

----------


## Buster

> US is targeting 4.75 by 2023 and it'll stay there for a few year. That's actually is the norm until Bin Laden flew a couple of planes into WTC. And it reached the same level before 2008 hits. Someone is saying 6% because demand is not being killed fast enough and everyone is still employed.
> 
> BoC doesn't have as much room to raise rate because a) we don't have 30 year fixed rate product like Americans and b) our mortgage interest isn't tax deductible. c) we are way more house poor than US. The only thing that got going for us is inflation is somehow lowest other than Japan out of the G7.



If you dont think Canada is turbo fucked, I have news for you.

----------


## Masked Bandit

> We were looking at an SUV for the wife, and we drove our 2017 Ram 1500, and when the dealership asked me if I was willing to trade, I told them to make me an offer, so the sales manager makes a call to his wholesaler and came back with 30k I just laughed and said Id keep my truck. Yes, its a Dodge, but barely driven, with about 67K kms, Laramie, Crew Cab trim I can probably get much more than 30k for it.



Those were mid to high $40s in August when I was shopping.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Those were mid to high $40s in August when I was shopping.



Unfortunately the truck market is a lot different now than it was three months ago locally.

As an example I bought 
@prae
 2016 F150 in October, from September 28th to today the book value has dropped $2300usd.

----------


## 94boosted

> US is targeting 4.75 by 2023 and it'll stay there for a few year. That's actually is the norm until Bin Laden flew a couple of planes into WTC. And it reached the same level before 2008 hits. Someone is saying 6% because demand is not being killed fast enough and everyone is still employed.
> 
> BoC doesn't have as much room to raise rate because a) we don't have 30 year fixed rate product like Americans and b) our mortgage interest isn't tax deductible. c) we are way more house poor than US. The only thing that got going for us is inflation is somehow lowest other than Japan out of the G7.



Yah I was referring to the BoC, not the US Fed. Personally I think we're pretty f**cked, as a country, at the current 3.75%. If it hit 6%, it would be complete pandemonium.

----------


## Buster

> Yah I was referring to the BoC, not the US Fed. Personally I think we're pretty f**cked, as a country, at the current 3.75%. If it hit 6%, it would be complete pandemonium.



One of Canada's problems - probably the main problem - is the mal-investment induced by our gov't inflating asset bubbles and protecting real-estate industry. This allowed them to kick the can down the road with GDP numbers that involved poor GDP/ROI activities (ie RE). The sooner the populace realizes that it must actually rely on industry and exports, the sooner we can get back to creating climate change instead of curing climate change.

The Canadian populace has largely been naïve to this reality. Because Canadians are a slow, stupid people by nature.

----------


## zechs

Inflation has slowed.

That doesn't mean it's stopped being remotely bad. And the central banks are so slow to respond (on top of being willingly an accomplice in creating a recession as their stated goal) that we will indeed be "turbo fucked"

----------


## ExtraSlow

Would you say it's a racial problem, that slowness?

----------


## Buster

> Would you say it's a racial problem, that slowness?



i dont see race

----------


## msommers

> People are already not paying or defaulting on their payments.



Our bank called us asking if we have any questions about the mortgage. Confused, I said no but why are you calling me...

Well turns out they're calling everyone to see if they can handle their mortgage right now or if they need some adjustment to make things work.

Fortunately we're fine but made me think, the banks must be really scared people are going to default.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> i dont see race



More like a race to the bottom, amirite!!?

----------


## 94boosted

> One of Canada's problems - probably the main problem - is the mal-investment induced by our gov't inflating asset bubbles and protecting real-estate industry. This allowed them to kick the can down the road with GDP numbers that involved poor GDP/ROI activities (ie RE). The sooner the populace realizes that it must actually rely on industry and exports, the sooner we can get back to creating climate change instead of curing climate change.
> 
> The Canadian populace has largely been naïve to this reality. Because Canadians are a slow, stupid people by nature.



Don’t worry, they promised a “soft landing”  :Big Grin:

----------


## Clever

> Im sorry. But I have some bad news for you.
> 
> Unless its a limited, loaded, eco diesel, with less than 10k, $30k would have been a solid deal for you.



Just traded for $36+GST  :dunno:  but we have a contact in St. Albert who my family and I buy from.

I also did not plan on trading when we went to the local dealer, I was curious what they would offer.
 
@Team_Mclaren
 Also, I posted that ad in the summer? Just took it down, thanks for the reminder.

----------


## riander5

> Until he actually flips it and money is in his account, it's all meaningless talk. What will he be driving instead?



What he drives now? A gasser ravenous 4? Year old models with 20,000 kms are listed at $75k. 2 year old models are listed for new model MSRP. Seems like meaningful talk to me

----------


## Xtrema

> If you dont think Canada is turbo fucked, I have news for you.



I eagerly wait for our version of state run canteen.

----------


## prae

> Unfortunately the truck market is a lot different now than it was three months ago locally.
> 
> As an example I bought 
> @prae
>  2016 F150 in October, from September 28th to today the book value has dropped $2300usd.



Wow; surprised at that swing. Hope you still made a buck or two on it. As 
@Buster
 taught me; timing the market is better than time in the market. At least, I think that's how the saying goes...

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Wow; surprised at that swing. Hope you still made a buck or two on it. As 
> @Buster
>  taught me; timing the market is better than time in the market. At least, I think that's how the saying goes...



Yeah we pre sell at an agreed price and forward contract the exchange rate so we are ok.

----------


## corsvette

The truck market has just begun its freefall, wholesale values are losing by the week. I know so many dealers desperately trying to offload trucks they are so far upside down in. Going to be plenty of good deals coming up.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> The truck market has just begun its freefall, wholesale values are losing by the week. I know so many dealers desperately trying to offload trucks they are so far upside down in. Going to be plenty of good deals coming up.



I watched Adesa Calgary run for a few hours this week and almost nothing sold, it was wild.

----------


## vengie

This is excellent news. 

I'm in the market for 3x 1 tonnes for my service fleet.

----------


## Buster

> The truck market has just begun its freefall, wholesale values are losing by the week. I know so many dealers desperately trying to offload trucks they are so far upside down in. Going to be plenty of good deals coming up.






> I watched Adesa Calgary run for a few hours this week and almost nothing sold, it was wild.



Is this a supply or demand thing?

----------


## shakalaka

What truck deals are good out there? Raptor? TRX?

----------


## BavarianBeast

It’s going to be funny to see August stuck with so much inventory that they overpaid to get haha

----------


## shakalaka

Haha as much as I like the cars they carry, the fucking way they so shamelessly gouge people will make me happy if that actually happens. Haha.

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> It’s going to be funny to see August stuck with so much inventory that they overpaid to get haha



That's a market I'm not familiar with, are ultra lux cars doing the same thing? I thought a lot of August cars are consignments?

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> It’s going to be funny to see August stuck with so much inventory that they overpaid to get haha



Fuck em, they took that risk along with all the others. I heard Carvanna might collapse entirely.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Fuck em, they took that risk along with all the others. I heard Carvanna might collapse entirely.



Holy shit! Their stock is up 19% already today. Are people thinking this is a meme stock?!? Time to short.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/CVNA/

----------


## jutes

> Fuck em, they took that risk along with all the others. I heard Carvanna might collapse entirely.



Fuck them and the DDE douchebags.

----------


## BavarianBeast

Back to selling Mazdas! Ha ha

----------


## you&me

> That's a market I'm not familiar with, are ultra lux cars doing the same thing? I thought a lot of August cars are consignments?



There's a parting of ways in the high end market, where the genuinely special & rare cars continue to be strong, but the rising tide that lifted the other boats is beginning to recede. Still some strange things going on, like people paying (in the US) $150k+ over for GT3RS allocations, for a car with no production limits, etc. 

Thought the same about August - mostly consignments where they've promised the private owner the moon, and then add an astronomical markup  :dunno:

----------


## shakalaka

I don't understand how they continue to stay in business and how people keep purchasing vehicles from them. Don't they say how much they gouge...just boycott that shit.

----------


## BavarianBeast

From what I can tell they’ve sold about 7 vehicles over $100k in the last 6 months

----------


## corsvette

> Is this a supply or demand thing?



Supply is there on the used side and new inventories are coming up somewhat, but demand is way down. Used interest rates are way up, and US buyers aren't hungry for trucks or big SUV's at all. I'm also certain the banks are lending on more realistic ACV's again. So many nice, high end trucks are hitting the market, dealers who bought them 8-9 months ago and didn't sell are now trying desperately to get their money back, problem is that values have tanked a good 15%. Lots of lickings to be taken by dealers coming up. Like Twin Cam said, the newer high end trucks aren't even getting bids at dealer auctions and if they get bids they're $20-25K back of ask.

----------


## shakalaka

Don't know how much demand is dying down to be honest, Waterloo Ford in Edmonton still wants 20K over msrp on even 2022 Raptors that they have/are incoming and not sold for sure, and Cam Clark Ford wants 10K over for the same. They must still be selling them and demand still there for them to continue gouging.

----------


## redline

2023s are starting to ship, so these dealers are going to take a bath on these 2022s and if they are stuck on over Msrp that reality is going to be harsh.

----------


## jutes

Fuck dealerships and their MSRP 'adjustments'. Hope they all go under and we move towards buying directly from manufacturers.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

I wasn't gouged because I chose to not purchase a vehicle under these pricing conditions. Those who purchased vehicles were also not gouged because they chose to exchange their currency for the goods at the offered price.

Why must we put an end to this system?

----------


## ExtraSlow

The only small tweak I'd like to make to the current dealership system is a requirement to provide a quote in writing, and a requirement to honour that written quote without changes or additions.
I don't mind mandatory shit, extra fees, markups or any of that. Just want it transparent and honest.

----------


## bjstare

> Fuck dealerships and their MSRP 'adjustments'. Hope they all go under and we move towards buying directly from manufacturers.



Preach, comrade. The government should mandate prices for all consumer goods, so everyone has equal opportunity to purchase for a fair price.

----------


## rage2

> Fuck dealerships and their MSRP 'adjustments'. Hope they all go under and we move towards buying directly from manufacturers.



Wait till you see 2023 msrps.

----------


## jutes

> Preach, comrade. The government should mandate prices for all consumer goods, so everyone has equal opportunity to purchase for a fair price.



Only if everyone pays their fair share. Canadians want more government intervention, lets give it to them.

----------


## killramos

This thread is gross

----------


## zechs

> I don't understand how they continue to stay in business and how people keep purchasing vehicles from them. Don't they say how much they gouge...just boycott that shit.



There are a lot of people in this world that do not shop big purchases.

In fact I'd say it's most people. They walk into the dealership, electronics store, furniture dept and they look at the car/tv/couch and go "yep! That's what I want".

And then they buy it. A pretty stress free way to live, if you hate money.

As for vehicle pricing, MSRP's are up 10% for 2023 for GM and vehicles are being sold missing parts of option packages. Used prices aren't coming down that much in the foreseeable future when new trucks are so expensive and missing important options.

One thing that is occuring is tons of 2 year short term lease trucks are coming onto market that people got when the world ended in 2020. This will see a small price reduction, but not for long.

I'm seeing 300k km 2015-2017 Denalis asking $35k-$45k. The market is nowhere near to dieing down. I don't think the wholesaler/auction market is indicative of what's going on for private sale purchases or new dealer purchases.

----------


## max_boost

> I wasn't gouged because I chose to not purchase a vehicle under these pricing conditions. Those who purchased vehicles were also not gouged because they chose to exchange their currency for the goods at the offered price.
> 
> Why must we put an end to this system?



Lol ya. Capitalism baby. Y’all love this system!! Don’t denigrate it!

----------


## you&me

> *I don't think the wholesaler/auction market is indicative of what's going on for private sale purchases or new dealer purchases.*



It cannot be emphasized how wrong you are.

The wholesale/auction market is THE car market. Every. Single. Part. of the car market is driven by the wholesale & auction market. MSRPs on new cars are influenced by this. Finance terms. Residual values, ergo lease payments and incentives. Production decisions, including vehicle type, models and trims. Color palettes... Everything.

I think the thing you're missing about the wholesale market being indicative of the overall (/used) car market is that it's a leading indicator. The major wholesalers - who by the way _are_ the manufacturers, through their finance divisions - and auctions that turn literally billions of dollars a quarter might have a little more market insight than Bob who spent 11 minutes browsing Kijiji before pricing his prized 2014 Denali with 306,000km. Or you.

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> Fuck dealerships and their MSRP 'adjustments'. Hope they all go under and we move towards buying directly from manufacturers.



Go buy a tesla, where prices have only gone up 25% in 2 years. lmao.

----------


## riander5

I think you two need to fight to the death and then we will know based on the winner if the used car market is quieting down or still insane

- - - Updated - - -




> Go buy a tesla, where prices have only gone up 25% in 2 years. lmao.



But then you'd be a Tesla loser

----------


## jutes

> Go buy a tesla, where prices have only gone up 25% in 2 years. lmao.



A tesla dealer would probably mark it up even more. 

More government caps on prices! and brands! Everyone should just drive a Lada.

----------


## ZenOps

Honda saying chip shortage is over, and they now are finishing off their backlog. Which could mean drastic price drops on a new car glut.

Crazyness.

----------


## riander5

> Honda saying chip shortage is over, and they now are finishing off their backlog. Which could mean drastic price drops on a new car glut.
> 
> Crazyness.



Thank god. I just saw an ad the other day for a 2016 honda civic with 80,000 kms. $26,000. WTF  :facepalm:

----------


## rage2

Chips is just one of the pieces of the puzzle. There's shortages in parts that aren't chips.

----------


## zechs

> I think the thing you're missing about the wholesale market being indicative of the overall (/used) car market is that it's a leading indicator. .



I'm not missing anything. My statement is made in the right here and now.

You're the one moving the goal posts.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Warren Zevon said it best.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Yep. All my bros are buying cars this month. Third one just signed for an Explorer Platiunum. Someone else ordered it, backed out, and he snapped it up with zero hesitation.

Apparently a great time to buy a car. Who knew?

----------


## killramos

I would say most vehicle purchases are more time sensitive than they are price sensitive

----------


## ExtraSlow

Seems true.

----------


## redline

> Yep. All my bros are buying cars this month. Third one just signed for an Explorer Platiunum. Someone else ordered it, backed out, and he snapped it up with zero hesitation.
> 
> Apparently a great time to buy a car. Who knew?



It’s not a great time … shitty time … in about 3 months will be a great time , great time to sell but not buy

----------


## killramos

Timing the market always works

----------


## BavarianBeast

The #1 buy indicator for the entire car market is when Aventador LP-700s hit low 300s.

----------


## shakalaka

> The #1 buy indicator for the entire car market is when Aventador LP-700s hit low 300s.



That'll be the day. Hopefully those days come back soon.

----------


## mr2mike

Car Dealerships are turning into The Brick.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9295833/f...uying-vehicle/

Have been told this is very similar to the early 80s with retailers doing predatory financing to finally sewer people into bankruptcy with inflation and high interest rates that they can't afford long term.

----------


## ZenOps

If you were selling, you had your chance. Timing is everything.

----------


## Buster

> Car Dealerships are turning into The Brick.
> https://globalnews.ca/news/9295833/f...uying-vehicle/
> 
> Have been told this is very similar to the early 80s with retailers doing predatory financing to finally sewer people into bankruptcy with inflation and high interest rates that they can't afford long term.



why dont people just do the finance, then repay the next day deal

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> why dont people just do the finance, then repay the next day deal



The important part of the story is that they're a homosexual couple. The missing part of the story, is what colour their adopted child is.
/Mainstream Media

----------


## mr2mike

^^^ Is there special, beneficial financing?

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> ^^^ Is there special, beneficial financing?



_They're_ fucking better be! Or else there's going to be an LgBt-FIRE!

I feel like the advertisers of the world have actually convinced their customers of the following argument:
"Look, Brah - banks are making mad bank. They make billions per quarter. And do you know why that is? Because their commercials are so insultingly pandering to "diversity" that everyone shops there and brings the money train. So you need to find a rainbow eco-bus filled to the brim with multi-ethnic cripples and pear-shaped freaks, and start filming. Sign here."

----------


## 94boosted

> why dont people just do the finance, then repay the next day deal



Per the article _APAs position is if they are going to do that they need to make you whole because you are paying interest on that loan whether you like it or not for at least three months and in many cases six months._

But I agree with you, what exactly could the dealership do if you financed and paid the entire loan off the next day? Unless there's some early repayment penalty in the fine print  :dunno:

----------


## Buster

> Per the article _“APA’s position is if they are going to do that they need to make you whole because you are paying interest on that loan whether you like it or not for at least three months and in many cases six months.”_
> 
> But I agree with you, what exactly could the dealership do if you financed and paid the entire loan off the next day? Unless there's some early repayment penalty in the fine print



I thought auto loans in Canada were completely open, as required by law.

----------


## zechs

> I thought auto loans in Canada were completely open, as required by law.



Sure. And you'd find that out how? If a dealer has you sign a "contract" stating you won't, how would you know? Why don't any of these articles mention this very simple fact?

I believe you and I had a discussion about VRM vs ARM, and the vast majority of people actually have ARMs but they are referred to as VRMs by basically everyone including industry.

Is it reasonable for someone to be a contract law expert in order to obtain services in this day and age? You can call people stupid all they want, but I sincerely doubt you read the entirety of the contract attached to your last credit card signup as well as the provisions for every single event attached to it. Or your cell provider. Or the last app you downloaded terms of service. And on it goes.

----------


## Buster

> Sure. And you'd find that out how? If a dealer has you sign a "contract" stating you won't, how would you know? Why don't any of these articles mention this very simple fact?
> 
> I believe you and I had a discussion about VRM vs ARM, and the vast majority of people actually have ARMs but they are referred to as VRMs by basically everyone including industry.
> 
> Is it reasonable for someone to be a contract law expert in order to obtain services in this day and age? You can call people stupid all they want, but I sincerely doubt you read the entirety of the contract attached to your last credit card signup as well as the provisions for every single event attached to it. Or your cell provider. Or the last app you downloaded terms of service. And on it goes.



I'm sure 
@shakalaka
 would be the best person to ask, but I do not believe a contract can be enforced if it specifically contravenes the intent of a law.

----------


## bjstare

> I'm sure 
> @shakalaka
>  would be the best person to ask, but I do not believe a contract can be enforced if it specifically contravenes the intent of a law.



I learned that in business law back in uni, it must be true.

----------


## zechs

> I'm sure 
> @shakalaka
>  would be the best person to ask, but I do not believe a contract can be enforced if it specifically contravenes the intent of a law.



That's not the point. The point is you don't know what you don't know, and if someone doesn't know they are entitled to treat the loan like that, they would never find that out unless someone explicitly told them.

And on top of that, you have someone (the dealership) lying and saying you can't pay it out early. So why would the joeschmoe consumer think to do so?

----------


## Swank

Dealerships have an opportune time to feast on the ignorant, always the biggest buffet.

----------


## Buster

> That's not the point. The point is you don't know what you don't know, and if someone doesn't know they are entitled to treat the loan like that, they would never find that out unless someone explicitly told them.
> 
> And on top of that, you have someone (the dealership) lying and saying you can't pay it out early. So why would the joeschmoe consumer think to do so?



This is a fair p point.

I'm bumping Don't Be Poor to rule #2.

Rule#1 is now: Don't Be A Retard

----------


## ercchry

in my space I find that people pay what they probably legally don’t have to often… to the point where the unscrupulous will try and get away with it every time… 

It’s either too much headache to deal with, or the delays around fighting it make it not worthwhile, or they do not have the means to fight it. Lack of oversight, or repercussions will keep this going as general practice from these parasites

It’s so bad that the comparison I use when explaining it is the private parking lot “tickets” that they try and issue people with all the nonsense threats on the back that are not enforceable

----------


## ExtraSlow

We need better oversight, by snipers.

----------


## Buster

> in my space I find that people pay what they probably legally don’t have to often… to the point where the unscrupulous will try and get away with it every time… 
> 
> It’s either too much headache to deal with, or the delays around fighting it make it not worth while, or they do not have the means to fight it. Lack of oversight, or repercussions will keep this going as general practice from these parasites



With a car loan it would be simple: ask the lender for a payout quote/invoice. Pay the invoice.

A lender who tries to include fees or breakage/penalties in that invoice wild be taking on major risk and I didn't that any would do it.

----------


## killramos

I think you are vastly overestimating the ability of most people to pay off their loans, even with other forms of credit.

----------


## Buster

> I think you are vastly overestimating the ability of most people to pay off their loans, even with other forms of credit.



Well the concern is people being forced take the financing when they don't want to.

----------


## ercchry

> With a car loan it would be simple: ask the lender for a payout quote/invoice. Pay the invoice.
> 
> A lender who tries to include fees or breakage/penalties in that invoice wild be taking on major risk and I didn't that any would do it.



Yeah, you’d be surprised what I see in payout statements from private lenders sometimes. What’s the risk though? Litigation happens, judgement says no… lawyers paid, client still out extra. If loan is from a chartered bank, possibly some repercussions… but not all lenders are regulated equally, fairstone for example dgaf

----------


## killramos

> Well the concern is people being forced take the financing when they don't want to.



That’s why they SAY they took the financing.

----------


## Buster

> Yeah, you’d be surprised what I see in payout statements from private lenders sometimes. What’s the risk though? Litigation happens, judgement says no… lawyers paid, client still out extra. If loan is from a chartered bank, possibly some repercussions… but not all lenders are regulated equally, fairstone for example dgaf



Well if you get scanned by someone doing something illegal, then I would refer you to our newly minted rule #1. 

If you're retarded them all bets are off.

----------


## Gman.45

> We need better oversight, by snipers.



That can be easily arranged.

----------


## ZenOps

Penis rocket man Bezos says recession which means:

“If you're an individual considering purchasing a big-screen TV, you might want to wait, hold onto your money, and see what transpires,”

"'new automobile, refrigerator, or whatever'

Of course as a billionaire I don't know if this means the exact opposite, hard to know what goes through the mind of rocket man.

----------


## Shlade

> Per the article _“APA’s position is if they are going to do that they need to make you whole because you are paying interest on that loan whether you like it or not for at least three months and in many cases six months.”_
> 
> But I agree with you, what exactly could the dealership do if you financed and paid the entire loan off the next day? Unless there's some early repayment penalty in the fine print



Im pretty positive they make you sign a contract that says if you pay off that loan within that time frame youll get dinged with a pretty hefty penalty... Ive heard almost as high as $2000. Unsure how thats legal but you sign on the dotted line i guess. Cant wait to see vehicles for sale for stupid prices for years to come because dumbasses bought highly inflated and have been paying more interest than principle on their vehicle loans... 

As much as we hate to admit it, the car market isnt controlled heavily on the manufacturer, its on the idiot consumer thats willing to pay for it. And there are a lot of idiots out there.

----------


## you&me

> Per the article _APAs position is if they are going to do that they need to make you whole because you are paying interest on that loan whether you like it or not for at least three months and in many cases six months._
> 
> But I agree with you, what exactly could the dealership do if you financed and paid the entire loan off the next day? Unless there's some early repayment penalty in the fine print



Recently went through this exact situation. 

Ordered a new car for my wife 6 months ago... To be fair, the dealer was upfront then about mandatory finance for 6 months, but I thought "we'll see in a few months" (when the car was supposed to arrive)... 

When the car arrived, I spoke to the NCM and finance manager and they maintained the financing was mandatory, but quickly offered an upfront rebate for the interest for the 6 months. For the aggravation, I also managed to squeeze a little extra out on the trade and drove away with a new car and a cheque... And yes, I marth'd my way through the finance calcs to make sure I wasn't leaving any money on the table.  :ROFL!:

----------


## ercchry

Are inducements legal in unsecured financing? Or auto lending? I guess its usually secured on the vehicle?

----------


## RX_EVOLV

> Recently went through this exact situation. 
> 
> Ordered a new car for my wife 6 months ago... To be fair, the dealer was upfront then about mandatory finance for 6 months, but I thought "we'll see in a few months" (when the car was supposed to arrive)... 
> 
> When the car arrived, I spoke to the NCM and finance manager and they maintained the financing was mandatory, but quickly offered an upfront rebate for the interest for the 6 months. For the aggravation, I also managed to squeeze a little extra out on the trade and drove away with a new car and a cheque... And yes, I marth'd my way through the finance calcs to make sure I wasn't leaving any money on the table.




oh interesting.. so does this mean you get the upfront discount equivalent to the 6 month interests costs, and technically also able to pay off the loan in full at the bank the next day?

----------


## jutes

It’s been a while since I financed, but isn’t the total loan amount including interest?
Example you finance the remaining $40,000 at X.X%, the next day you owe $40k+interest. So you’d essentially be paying the bank more than the $40k.

----------


## rage2

> It’s been a while since I financed, but isn’t the total loan amount including interest?
> Example you finance the remaining $40,000 at X.X%, the next day you owe $40k+interest. So you’d essentially be paying the bank more than the $40k.



Nope. They payout doesn't include interest. It's always lower than the sum of the remaining payments. In my experience anyways.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> It’s been a while since I financed, but isn’t the total loan amount including interest?
> Example you finance the remaining $40,000 at X.X%, the next day you owe $40k+interest. So you’d essentially be paying the bank more than the $40k.



Auto loans are generally simple math interest loans with a daily per diem.

----------


## Rocket1k78

The Auto show is cancelled due to lack of supply




> I think you are vastly overestimating the ability of most people to pay off their loans, even with other forms of credit.



This 100%. Everyone here pays cash but the average car buyer wont be, theyll be going for the 7+ years with the cost of cars now and i also wouldnt be surprised to start seeing the cash back "deal" advertised all over. Saw some sign at Universal ford in 2014 that said cash back up to $15k so i thought it was a major rebate. Wanted a new truck so i thought it was perfect timing. Went in and looked at an f150 platinum($62k msrp back then) and thought i would be getting a nice chunk off or cash back. Turns out the cash back is not a rebate but what they offered was for you to add on up to $15k on top of the purchase price and you could use the $15k for whatever.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> ... Saw some sign at Universal ford in 2014 that said cash back up to $15k so i thought it was a major rebate. Wanted a new truck so i thought it was perfect timing. Went in and looked at an f150 platinum($62k msrp back then) and thought i would be getting a nice chunk off or cash back. Turns out the cash back is not a rebate but what they offered was for you to add on up to $15k on top of the purchase price and you could use the $15k for whatever.



So, stop holding out on us! How much did you win from the lottery tickets you bought with that sweet $15k??!

----------


## Rocket1k78

> So, stop holding out on us! How much did you win from the lottery tickets you bought with that sweet $15k??!



Lotto is for suckers. Got my mom, dad and brother in law to co sign for me and walked out with 20k cash. Dropped the truck off at a truck parts place and got it lifted, 35's on 28's and some other things, had to put a couple grand on my friends CC because 20k wasnt enough lol

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Lotto is for suckers. Got my mom, dad and brother in law to co sign for me and walked out with 20k cash. Dropped the truck off at a truck parts place and got it lifted, 35's on 28's and some other things, had to put a couple grand on my friends CC because 20k wasnt enough lol



Can you help me move this sweet leather chair I just bought?

----------


## you&me

> oh interesting.. so does this mean you get the upfront discount equivalent to the 6 month interests costs, and technically also able to pay off the loan in full at the bank the next day?



To be clear, it wasn't a discount on the contract, but a separate cheque from the dealership to me. Technically not accounted for anywhere in the contract, or any other agreement.  :dunno: 




> Nope. They payout doesn't include interest. It's always lower than the sum of the remaining payments. In my experience anyways.



This is (or should be) the correct way - If the car is paid off early, that amount will be less than the sum of the remaining payments, because there's interest accounted for in the remaining / future payments that isn't actually incurred.

----------


## Rocket1k78

> Can you help me move this sweet leather chair I just bought?



I totally would but it got repo'd within 6 months

----------


## shakalaka

Someone I know did just that yesterday. Purchased a new Ram 1500 msrp 67'ish for like 53k (apparently they are running 15%-20% off on msrp on Classic Ram's), and the dealer tacked on 20k on top of the loan and gave him a cheque back. He apparently wants to pay off his credit card debt which is at a much higher interest rate of course. Pretty silly to let your situation get there, but if you are there, not a bad way to go around and consolidate your debt.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> SPretty silly to let your situation get there, but if you are there, not a bad way to go around and consolidate your debt.



Until they rack up their credit card debt again, because now it's a zero balance.

----------


## shakalaka

Absolutely, if that doesn't teach you your lesson, then nothing will.

----------


## 94boosted

> Someone I know did just that yesterday. Purchased a new Ram 1500 msrp 67'ish for like 53k (apparently they are running 15%-20% off on msrp on Classic Ram's), and the dealer tacked on 20k on top of the loan and gave him a cheque back. He apparently wants to pay off his credit card debt which is at a much higher interest rate of course. Pretty silly to let your situation get there, but if you are there, not a bad way to go around and consolidate your debt.



Ford and GM can't even get you a truck but Dodge has so many sitting on lots they're offering $14K off  :ROFL!:

----------


## shakalaka

Yea apparently only the classic Ram's though, I imagine they weren't impacted by the commodity shortage on those base models and ended up ordering a shit ton and now they are trying to move them however they can.

----------


## riander5

I wonder if RAM is going to keep those Classics going for a while. They seem to sell well enough and must be dirt cheap to produce at this point

----------


## Rocket1k78

> Someone I know did just that yesterday. Purchased a new Ram 1500 msrp 67'ish for like 53k (apparently they are running 15%-20% off on msrp on Classic Ram's), and the dealer tacked on 20k on top of the loan and gave him a cheque back. He apparently wants to pay off his credit card debt which is at a much higher interest rate of course. Pretty silly to let your situation get there, but if you are there, not a bad way to go around and consolidate your debt.



Thats wild but yeah if you can manage your finances better this go around it might not be a bad route.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> I wonder if RAM is going to keep those Classics going for a while. They seem to sell well enough and must be dirt cheap to produce at this point



TIL riander5 needs a giant fucking loan. Wolves are at the door.

----------


## ExtraSlow

the ram classic is a very old platform at this point, came out for model year 2009. Basically like buying a new 2009 base model truck. Considering how fucked used values are, I can see the appeal.

----------


## killramos

It’s good chrysler knows its pace as the cheap option.

----------


## riander5

> TIL riander5 needs a giant fucking loan. Wolves are at the door.



Haha I'm not saying I want one, just that if you can produce and sell some old pizza shit that you've optimized production on, might as well keep the good times rolling!

----------


## schurchill39

I've got a buddy who is looking at getting a new F-150 and he said he's having an issue getting a price on from any dealers without putting down a deposit first. He test drove one in Okotoks and the 22 year old sales bro wanted his credit card to go back and get pricing figured. Same story less the test drive for a couple dealers in the city. "Its a high demand vehicle so I can't commit to any pricing without a deposit". Does that seem fucked up to anyone else or is that just the way of the world now?

----------


## ExtraSlow

I would use a different dealership. There's no shortage of Ford stores.

----------


## schurchill39

> I would use a different dealership. There's no shortage of Ford stores.



Oh he is, as would I. If it was one dealer I would think they were being d-bags but this is 3-4 dealers now so I wasn't sure if thats some sort of fundamental shift in how these crooks are doing business or what

----------


## vengie

The best part about their attitudes is they will once again soon be begging for people to come through their doors.

----------


## ExtraSlow

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, once you find a saleperson who will deal with you over email, and who doesn't lie to you, you should use that person. I have one of them at Cam Clark Airdrie if he wants a referral, he can send me name, email, cellphone and I'll set it up. He gets $500 from me if he buys or leases. 

Now if he's really picky about options, and he needs a truck right away, then he has no leverage, and the salesbros are smart enough to know that.

----------


## Buster

I've consistently been getting emails from sales people nowadays

----------


## Xtrema

> Oh he is, as would I. If it was one dealer I would think they were being d-bags but this is 3-4 dealers now so I wasn't sure if thats some sort of fundamental shift in how these crooks are doing business or what



Always been the same, just people are enabling these behaviors more when money was cheap.

----------


## gwill

> I've got a buddy who is looking at getting a new F-150 and he said he's having an issue getting a price on from any dealers without putting down a deposit first. He test drove one in Okotoks and the 22 year old sales bro wanted his credit card to go back and get pricing figured. Same story less the test drive for a couple dealers in the city. "Its a high demand vehicle so I can't commit to any pricing without a deposit". Does that seem fucked up to anyone else or is that just the way of the world now?



my buddy just bought an f150 lariat out of edmonton with zero issues. He's had it about 7 or 8 weeks now. He didn't need a deposit to figure out pricing.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

Family member putting in an order for a car they’ve been waiting for the order guide on today and the dealer is requesting $500 up charge on PDI, $600 dealer fee, and $1500 PPF they refuse to sell without. Business as usual for the local shithead dealers it seems.

----------


## max_boost

> Family member putting in an order for a car they’ve been waiting for the order guide on today and the dealer is requesting $500 up charge on PDI, $600 dealer fee, and $1500 PPF they refuse to sell without. Business as usual for the local shithead dealers it seems.



to ensure everyone that touches the vehicle gets paid lol

----------


## Buster

sounds like it might be worth it to buy one of those shitbox teslas just to avoid dealers.

----------


## ercchry

> Family member putting in an order for a car they’ve been waiting for the order guide on today and the dealer is requesting $500 up charge on PDI, $600 dealer fee, and $1500 PPF they refuse to sell without. Business as usual for the local shithead dealers it seems.



Had this pre-Covid from jag/Land Rover in Edmonton… just wanted a 2-3yr lease but they refused to spec a single car without every single typical finance office up sell, and since those are not capitalized into the value of the overall vehicle, the payments were absolutely ridiculous

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Had this pre-Covid from jag/Land Rover in Edmonton… just wanted a 2-3yr lease but they refused to spec a single car without every single typical finance office up sell, and since those are not capitalized into the value of the overall vehicle, the payments were absolutely ridiculous



JLR Calgary tried the same thing to the person I mentioned above in October 2020, they were literally willing to pay MSRP plus a $800 dealer fee to order their first vehicle from the brand and they lost the sale due to insane non optional add ons.

----------


## max_boost

> sounds like it might be worth it to buy one of those shitbox teslas just to avoid dealers.



Can you drive those in winter or can they drive themselves in winter ?

- - - Updated - - -




> Had this pre-Covid from jag/Land Rover in Edmonton… just wanted a 2-3yr lease but they refused to spec a single car without every single typical finance office up sell, and since those are not capitalized into the value of the overall vehicle, the payments were absolutely ridiculous



I want to buy a gti but just base model with dsg. I’m willing to wait until times get tough before I go to dealer.

----------


## max_boost

Or hmmm anyone been to vw recently? Haha

----------


## Buster

> Or hmmm anyone been to vw recently? Haha



My buddy bought a Cayenne the other day. I think that counts?

----------


## bjstare

> My buddy bought a Cayenne the other day. I think that counts?



Did you tell him how stupid he is for buying an overpriced vw?

----------


## killramos

> Did you tell him how stupid he is for buying an overpriced vw?



Are there correctly priced VW’s?

----------


## redline

> I've said it before, and I'll say it again, once you find a saleperson who will deal with you over email, and who doesn't lie to you, you should use that person. I have one of them at Cam Clark Airdrie if he wants a referral, he can send me name, email, cellphone and I'll set it up. He gets $500 from me if he buys or leases. 
> 
> Now if he's really picky about options, and he needs a truck right away, then he has no leverage, and the salesbros are smart enough to know that.



Can confirm ES sales bro at Cam Clark is good, would deal with again

----------


## BavarianBeast

So, what does everyone think… will luxury tax be around forever? If we can elect a conservative federal government will we see it go? 

Definitely a tough pill to swallow.. throwing away 10% of the cars total value because of our hopeless government.

----------


## Buster

> So, what does everyone think… will luxury tax be around forever? If we can elect a conservative federal government will we see it go? 
> 
> Definitely a tough pill to swallow.. throwing away 10% of the cars total value because of our hopeless government.



There is very little incentive for the conservatives to eliminate taxes.

----------


## shakalaka

Yea...now that it is in place I don't see any govt. including the conservatives getting rid of it. Ultimately it is a good thing from the govt.'s POV and for conservatives it's perfect that they weren't the ones to put it in place and since they sure would be able to use the extra $$, I don't see why they would try to get rid of it (unless it's an actual promise during elections or some shit).

----------


## ExtraSlow

Not impossible to imagine a conservative government removing that specific tax, but it would be pretty low priority. Like maybe in 2nd term or something.
So yeah, be a decade at least bros.

----------


## max_boost

> So, what does everyone think… will luxury tax be around forever? If we can elect a conservative federal government will we see it go? 
> 
> Definitely a tough pill to swallow.. throwing away 10% of the cars total value because of our hopeless government.



Tough to swallow but you swallow cuz you can bro lol

----------


## Buster

we all say we prefer consumption taxes...until they put in consumption taxes.

----------


## killramos

> we all say we prefer consumption taxes...until they put in consumption taxes.



Prefer implies instead of, not in addition to.

----------


## ExtraSlow

I personally LOVE this version of consumption tax because I am poor.

----------


## killramos

> I personally LOVE this version of consumption tax because I am poor.



People are generally supportive of making other people pay for things they want.

----------


## npham

I completely forgot about the luxury tax when I was looking at building an Emira yesterday. Perhaps a new government will increase the threshold for it because it's absurdly low.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> People are generally supportive of making other people pay for things they want.



Exactly.

----------


## Buster

> I completely forgot about the luxury tax when I was looking at building an Emira yesterday. Perhaps a new government will increase the threshold for it because it's absurdly low.



Bracket creep is a feature not a bug.

----------


## BavarianBeast

The LT on an Emira is negligible.. 

It would be nice to see a cap on vehicles or at least be able to get a portion back come tax season. I guess it is what it is for now. Got to pay to play. Not sure I’ll ever stop feeling nauseous giving the government 15% of my next cars value on money that’s already been taxed to shit. Canada is turning into such a bullshit country haha

----------


## mr2mike

> Bracket creep is a feature not a bug.



Yes! Set it now, they knew inflation was coming in hot.
Every optioned out "gas guzzler" will fall into the category soon.
But not EV's because they'll offer that incentive of no luxe tax.

----------


## Buster

> The LT on an Emira is negligible.. 
> 
> It would be nice to see a cap on vehicles or at least be able to get a portion back come tax season. I guess it is what it is for now. Got to pay to play. Not sure I’ll ever stop feeling nauseous giving the government 15% of my next cars value on money that’s already been taxed to shit. Canada is turning into such a bullshit country haha



Canada has been a bullshit country for a LONG time now.

In some ways, the luxury tax is the gov't getting in on vehicle inflation - no different than a dealer market adjustment. Why should the secondary market capture all of the value of scarcity in the chain?

----------


## ercchry

> The LT on an Emira is negligible.. 
> 
> It would be nice to see a cap on vehicles or at least be able to get a portion back come tax season. I guess it is what it is for now. Got to pay to play. Not sure I’ll ever stop feeling nauseous giving the government 15% of my next cars value on money that’s already been taxed to shit. Canada is turning into such a bullshit country haha



Montana plates are the best red plates…

----------


## max_boost

Go buy property in Montana lol That’s a boss move rage2 style

----------


## BavarianBeast

It doesn’t do you much good if you’re buying from a Canadian dealer anyways. Also seems like a lot of the US dealers are charging ADMs on just about every new car.. So it’s just fuckery everywhere and I agree now, it is the worst time to buy a car.

----------


## nismodrifter

Luxury tax. Meh.
PST. Death.

Add them together and you just have tears on the table. 

I am new vehicle shopping right now, could have it in the garage by early summer, but I simply refuse to shell out like 40-50k tax. Ridicularis. 



» Click image for larger version

----------


## killramos

Communism is expensive AF.

And you eventually run out of other peoples money anyway.

----------


## BavarianBeast

It’s true, things could be worse. Could be a BC resident!

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Am I crazy or is this the worst time ever to buy a vehicle?



Yep.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> I watched Adesa Calgary run for a few hours this week and almost nothing sold, it was wild.



So ^this was in mid November and at the same time, someone mentioned Carvana as being on the verge of collapse. (Incidentally, that made me look up their stock which had surged 20% to temp sit at about $9.80 and I yelled SHORT! ... It's currently at about $4.50).

So, what has developed in the last 6 weeks on this front? I became very excited for a collapse.

----------


## shakalaka

I just need to change my mindset to hate cars moving forward so I never have the itch or desire to to get anything nice or change frequently.

And for that I probably need electroconvulsive therapy since I doubt regular chatting will do much. FML.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> I just need to change my mindset to hate cars moving forward so I never have the itch or desire to to get anything nice or change frequently.
> 
> And for that I probably need electroconvulsive therapy since I doubt regular chatting will do much. FML.



Heroic dose might work.

----------


## Buster

> I just need to change my mindset to hate cars moving forward so I never have the itch or desire to to get anything nice or change frequently.
> 
> And for that I probably need electroconvulsive therapy since I doubt regular chatting will do much. FML.



Come hang with me for a while.

Cars have jumped the shark. 

Regular cars are nice enough now. Sports cars aren't interesting enough anymore. And youre not insecure so you don't need the flex-factor.

----------


## BavarianBeast

Just look at this every time you think of buying a new car.  :Cry:  :Cry: 



Out of curiosity, what are other dealers like Merc, Audi, Bmw charging these days for freight and dealer prep?

----------


## ExtraSlow

I can imagine the trust cost of shipping that car isn't wildly less than that freight fee, actually pretty reasonable. It's going a long way with some careful handling (I hope). 
Honestly, that whole list looks shockingly reasonable, aside from the last line.

----------


## BavarianBeast

I was just surprised because it was $10,000 last year for freight. Thought overall freight costs had gone down, not jumped another 80%.

----------


## rage2

I paid $3500 for freight and PDI combined. Shipping costs went up quite a bit the last couple of years, peaked this summer, and dropped hard since then. I think we’re back at pre pandemic levels already. That said 10k and 18k are hilariously expensive. As is a 7k pdi. For 7k my car better be fully wrapped lol.

----------


## killramos

It would certainly be difficult to come up with an itemized list for how they came to $7k. 

Did a tech spend a week removing plastic from the trim or something?

----------


## BavarianBeast

Yeah, it’s a bit absurd. $3500 for freight and pdi sounds like a bargain to me now haha. I was hoping somebody would tell me their new C series cost $11k in freight!

Maybe I can take delivery in Italy and do my own pdi and put it on an aircraft carrier for cheaper.

----------


## killramos

I’d guess that’s not cheaper.

But I’d love to order an Alpina so maybe we can share a crate?

----------


## BavarianBeast

It can’t be much more?

Hmm I like this idea. Let’s import a ton of euro cars for beyonders, I’ve always wanted a lancia delta integrale evo 2 …

----------


## 2002civic

Those numbers are absurd, but they're inflated so it doesn't just look like ADM. Not sure Lambo's policy on that though.

----------


## BavarianBeast

That also went through my mind too. Their way of baking ADM into the equation..

----------


## rage2

> That also went through my mind too. Their way of baking ADM into the equation..



Not sure if they’re allowed to do that, I know Merc isn’t allowed to. Those rates are set by corporate by Mercedes. I believe Toyota is the same, and differs depending on province to compensate for longer train distances. Mercedes is flat rate across Canada.

----------


## Strider

> Not sure if they’re allowed to do that, I know Merc isn’t allowed to. Those rates are set by corporate by Mercedes. I believe Toyota is the same, and differs depending on province to compensate for longer train distances. Mercedes is flat rate across Canada.



BMW dealers seem to make up whatever number they want for Freight+PDI, it varies quite a bit between dealerships and seems to be negotiable.

----------


## ercchry

Are you paying lux tax on those fees? If not, could be a good loophole… like when sketchy domestics hide underwater trades with $2k for nitro tire fill  :ROFL!:

----------


## BavarianBeast

No the tax is literally on car msrp + options  :thumbsdown:

----------


## ercchry

> No the tax is literally on car msrp + options



Haha, the extra kick in the balls is the tax on the BS fees, amazing  :ROFL!: 

Edit: wait, so no tax on fees, then hiding vehicle cost in fees would hypothetically work? … on used at least?

----------


## killramos

There is no lux tax on used so… no?

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> BMW dealers seem to make up whatever number they want for Freight+PDI, it varies quite a bit between dealerships and seems to be negotiable.



Yeah BMW dealers locally all the worst. They tried to force a family member to have PPF installed through them at 3 times our normal cost, and they marked up freight and PDI over whats shown on BMW.ca as well, on top of their $800 dealer fee.

----------


## ganesh

This is all shows up on my quote from July. I will find out the exact numbers in the next couple of weeks.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> This is all shows up on my quote from July. I will find out the exact numbers in the next couple of weeks.



What the fuck is pre delivery charges?

----------


## ganesh

> What the fuck is pre delivery charges?



This is what I was told 'The Pre Delivery Expenses are everything included to get the vehicle ready for delivery including unpacking the car, detailing the car, administrative paperwork etc." - AKA Dealer Admin Fee

----------


## ExtraSlow

PDE sounds like PDI, which is a different line. Awesome.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> This is what I was told 'The Pre Delivery Expenses are everything included to get the vehicle ready for delivery including unpacking the car, detailing the car, administrative paperwork etc." - AKA Dealer Admin Fee



Ah ok a little more “normal”. We’re you able to negotiate any discount at all, I’m assuming you ordered a 2023 Macan?

----------


## ganesh

> Ah ok a little more “normal”. We’re you able to negotiate any discount at all, I’m assuming you ordered a 2023 Macan?



Yes. It is a 2023 Macan GTS and no discount at all. 
When I placed the order no one in the country had a allocation and everyone had a big wait list. So no one was willing to move on the price.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Yes. It is a 2023 Macan GTS and no discount at all. 
> When I placed the order no one in the country had a allocation and everyone had a big wait list. So no one was willing to move on the price.



Figured as much. The other half loves the Macan but neither of us want to spend that kind of coin.

----------


## s2k_boi

Audi's freight/PDI is $2700 but they did charge a vehicle prep fee of $445. However, they didn't have any market adjustment and was straight MSRP without any forced add on.

I'm not sure what the local BMW dealers are doing now as I dealt with an out of town dealership for that.

----------


## lilmira

5000 freight and pdi for mercedes

----------


## killramos

lol

I’ll just buy stuff for cents on the dollar when broke assholes can’t afford their lease payments at 9% interest.

----------


## Buster

> lol
> 
> I’ll just buy stuff for cents on the dollar when broke assholes can’t afford their lease payments at 9% interest.



yeah... i assume there is a crash in luxury goods coming.

----------


## jutes

For $3865 the Macan PDI better include a full detail and ceramic PRO application.

----------


## killramos

Inside look at these Pre Delivery Inspections

----------


## BavarianBeast

Thanks for sharing info regarding other manufacturers freight and pdi costs.

I’ve got to admit Grand Touring has at least dropped $5-6k on parties for my wife and I alone since June. 
Big parties all inclusive with paid nights away and other things. Suppose I’ll just factor that into the equation ha ha..

----------


## shakalaka

^Their parties always look fun on Instagram. I was invited to the Banff one just before summer but little did they know I had gotten rid of my Aston Martin long time ago. Haha.

----------


## Buster

> Thanks for sharing info regarding other manufacturers freight and pdi costs.
> 
> I’ve got to admit Grand Touring has at least dropped $5-6k on parties for my wife and I alone since June. 
> Big parties all inclusive with paid nights away and other things. Suppose I’ll just factor that into the equation ha ha..



You paid for those parties, lol.

----------


## shakalaka

And gouging is no different across other brands. Here is an example on the new Range Rover that my dad picked up. They won't even remove the options like 3M cause with my guys I can do the whole car for slightly more than what they are charging for front end package.

----------


## killramos

People actually pay 250k plus for a Range Rover?

I assumed those prices were jokes so they could offer huge discounts.

----------


## vengie

TIL Range Rovers are now $250k. 

I'm also eagerly awaiting the massive crash in prices for everything.

----------


## Buster

gouging isn't a thing.

People are either willing to pay the price or they are not.

What people think of "gouging" is really just a fellow consumer that's willing to make the decision you are not.

----------


## s2k_boi

This out of town Audi dealership tried to charge for the privacy glass that comes from the factory with their “window tint” fee and a bunch of bs packages too.

----------


## richardchan2002

Things look different if you look at the taxes+fees as a percentage of the full cost.

Oversimplification, but $20k in taxes+fees on a $200k car is like paying $3k in taxes+fees on a $30k car.

If you can afford a $200k car you can afford $20k in taxes.

----------


## killramos

> If you can afford a $200k car you can afford to dodge $20k in taxes.



Ftfy

----------


## richardchan2002

But think about the 1% not paying their fair share

----------


## killramos

I try not to as a general rule

----------


## Buster

Most here probably don't remember the 1990 crash of exotic car values. Would be highly entertaining to see that again.

----------


## BavarianBeast

That crash probably made a lot of smart car investors a lot of money in future years.

----------


## Darkane

> And gouging is no different across other brands. Here is an example on the new Range Rover that my dad picked up. They won't even remove the options like 3M cause with my guys I can do the whole car for slightly more than what they are charging for front end package.



Alberta V8 green levy? Fuck right off.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> You paid for those parties, lol.



Lexus offers free golf simulator and manicures.

*Oil change is $385

----------


## Shlade

Everybody knows the only thing to do with Junkrovers is lease them not buy them...

----------


## killramos

More importantly Lexus comes and gets my car from me and brings it back for that fee

----------


## shakalaka

> Everybody knows the only thing to do with Junkrovers is lease them not buy them...



That's old news. They haven't been the 'unreliable kind for the past decade or so. I personally would get a G63 if I was spending 260K but my dad doesn't likely them and it's hid 5th range over rhe past decade. He has leased them and also bought them like this and the last (limited edition 1 of 1500) and always gotten better than market average in return value. Of course they don't hold value like G but are decent at these specific trim levels.

----------


## rage2

> Lexus offers free golf simulator and manicures.
> 
> *Oil change is $385



Jokes aside, Lexus was fucking cheap for oil changes and maintenance. Pretty sure it was cheaper to get oil change + manicure than getting a manicure somewhere else.

I really loved the Lexus experience. Just wished they made more cars that are interesting.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Jokes aside, Lexus was fucking cheap for oil changes and maintenance. Pretty sure it was cheaper to get oil change + manicure than getting a manicure somewhere else.
> 
> I really loved the Lexus experience. Just wished they made more cars that are interesting.



I've never really used it, but looking at the previous owner's service history, they sure got a lot of expensive maintenance done.

----------


## jutes

> Lexus offers free golf simulator and manicures.
> 
> *Oil change is $385



$85 in supplies and $300/hour for labour. Does the golf sim have a bar?

----------


## bjstare

> Jokes aside, Lexus was fucking cheap for oil changes and maintenance. Pretty sure it was cheaper to get oil change + manicure than getting a manicure somewhere else.
> 
> I really loved the Lexus experience. Just wished they made more cars that are interesting.



Haha this is what I was gonna say. My ISF went to the dealer for a lot of regular maintenance just because it was so cheap.

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> Not sure if they’re allowed to do that, I know Merc isn’t allowed to. Those rates are set by corporate by Mercedes. I believe Toyota is the same, and differs depending on province to compensate for longer train distances. Mercedes is flat rate across Canada.



Remember when I talked to you about a GLS? lol

----------


## BavarianBeast

Sounds like I’m just poor.

----------


## max_boost

Ahaha holy fk do I feel poor

----------


## npham

> That's old news. They haven't been the 'unreliable kind for the past decade or so. I personally would get a G63 if I was spending 260K but my dad doesn't likely them and it's hid 5th range over rhe past decade. He has leased them and also bought them like this and the last (limited edition 1 of 1500) and always gotten better than market average in return value. Of course they don't hold value like G but are decent at these specific trim levels.



Did he get that avocado Sport SVR that was at Calgary JLR?

----------


## shakalaka

No my dad only likes the full sized ones. I would love a sport svr for myself though - but I can't justify the mark-ups and gouging.

----------


## BavarianBeast

Was watching this Huracan EVO Spyder on BaT over the last few days. 

Surprised it didn’t sell for $20k over msrp. Didn’t think the reserve would be so high but I guess the market is still relatively strong. 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...can-evo-rwd-2/

----------


## Buster

> Was watching this Huracan EVO Spyder on BaT over the last few days. 
> 
> Surprised it didn’t sell for $20k over msrp. Didn’t think the reserve would be so high but I guess the market is still relatively strong. 
> 
> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...can-evo-rwd-2/



The last gasp.

----------


## richardchan2002

> Remember when I talked to you about a GLS? lol



Looks mostly reasonable except $19k for freight and PDI?

----------


## rage2

> Remember when I talked to you about a GLS? lol



I would’ve called or email head office and inquired. Nothing might’ve come out of it but if it reached the right person the dealership might’ve been slapped with a penalty.

Nitrogen is just a slap in the face.

----------


## redline

> I wouldve called or email head office and inquired. Nothing mightve come out of it but if it reached the right person the dealership mightve been slapped with a penalty.
> 
> Nitrogen is just a slap in the face.



19k shipping is not a slap in face ? I got a quote on a sprinter and it 6k shipping

----------


## rage2

> 19k shipping is not a slap in face ? I got a quote on a sprinter and it 6k shipping …



19k in shipping is just gouging. Adding nitrogen on top of that is a slap in the face.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

Tell them you'll pay $20 for only 80% nitrogen. They will refuse and you'll get stuck with air for free, like a chump.

----------


## BavarianBeast

Realizing a GLS 450 4 matic is over $100k base was a slap in my face.

----------


## killramos

> Realizing a GLS 450 4 matic is over $100k base was a slap in my face.



GL and GLS have been over 100k to start since forever, nothing to do with the recent craziness.

----------


## vengie

I'm assuming that shipping line item was a fuck up by the dealer. 
It says G/S/Maybach as the class. Aka flagship vehicles.

----------


## killramos

It’s double funny when you awkwardly remember they are made in Alabama, and unless they are airlifting them with helicopters, it sure doesn’t cost $20k to get a car to Calgary from Alabama.

----------


## BavarianBeast

I dunno, getting a luxury vehicle out of Alabama sounds high stake

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> GL and GLS have been over 100k to start since forever, nothing to do with the recent craziness.



I was thinking that at first, then changed my mind to think "they must apply it to all models that have a _G_ in their moniker".

Then I LoL'd about the GLK and unchanged my mind!

----------


## killramos

Are any of the German luxo suvs actually made in Germany?

----------


## BavarianBeast

Does the Macan count

----------


## killramos

The Macan never counts. Besides I thought those were made in Mexico?

----------


## ExtraSlow

On the May-can Riviera?

----------


## bjstare

> I'm assuming that shipping line item was a fuck up by the dealer. 
> It says G/S/Maybach as the class. Aka flagship vehicles.



The GLS is closely comparable to the S class, is it not? If S class is in that category, so is GLS. G and Maybach are both something else entirely.

----------


## BavarianBeast

I thought the GLS was comparable to a Subaru Ascent. Thank god I’ll never need an suv.

----------


## Buster

> The GLS is closely comparable to the S class, is it not? If S class is in that category, so is GLS. G and Maybach are both something else entirely.



No way are the German high end SUVs comparable to their sedan counterparts.

----------


## rage2

GLS, S and G wagon are all the same freight and pdi as what I paid. No clue about maybach tho.

edit - the prices are published in the mb Canada configurator.

----------


## Buster

the features and driving experience in cars has gotten compressed to the point where a "premium" car isn't that much better than a mid-range car.

It used to be you'd spend a lot more to get a lot more. Now you spend a lot more to get a marginally better experience (if that). Now the cost of the vehicles is the primary feature, rather than it being a consequence of the spending more in search of a better experience. The only reason to spend more is to get a brand badge.

Basically high end vehicles are just Yeezy and Balenciaga sneakers.

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> Looks mostly reasonable except $19k for freight and PDI?



Regular Freight/PDI is $3995. They basically just added 15k ADM onto that line.

Ended up in an X7. But it was a cool exercise.

----------


## killramos

> Regular Freight/PDI is $3995. They basically just added 15k ADM onto that line.
> 
> Ended up in an X7. But it was a cool exercise.



I just want the rear captain seats out of the X7 transplanted into my X5.

----------


## ganesh

> The Macan never counts. Besides I thought those were made in Mexico?



They are made in Germany.

----------


## killramos

> I thought the GLS was comparable to a Subaru Ascent. Thank god I’ll never need an suv.



Don’t you drive a dodge ram? Difference?

- - - Updated - - -




> They are made in Germany.



Sorry. Must be mixing it up with one of the other tiguans.

----------


## ganesh

> Don’t you drive a dodge ram? Difference?
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry. Must be mixing it up with one of the other tiguans.



 :Smilie:  P car hate is real here.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> P car hate is real here.



He is blinded by his infatuation for Nissan.

----------


## killramos

I legitimately forgot macans were Porsches for a minute there

----------


## Buster

Aren't they all based on the golf mbq platform anyway?

----------


## bjstare

> the features and driving experience in cars has gotten compressed to the point where a "premium" car isn't that much better than a mid-range car.
> 
> It used to be you'd spend a lot more to get a lot more. Now you spend a lot more to get a marginally better experience (if that). Now the cost of the vehicles is the primary feature, rather than it being a consequence of the spending more in search of a better experience. The only reason to spend more is to get a brand badge.



So are they comparable, or aren't they? Aside from the obvious that one is an SUV and one is a sedan. In terms of features and what tier they are positioned at for the brand, I still think they're peers (more or less). GLE vs E class is probably a better example than GLS vs S class. You are taking it a step further and saying E class vs S class are nearly the same aside from cost (which I agree with, more or less).

----------


## Buster

> So are they comparable, or aren't they? Aside from the obvious that one is an SUV and one is a sedan. In terms of features and what tier they are positioned at for the brand, I still think they're peers (more or less). GLE vs E class is probably a better example than GLS vs S class. You are taking it a step further and saying E class vs S class are nearly the same aside from cost (which I agree with, more or less).



It's a good point. I'm not even sure about recent times. I do know that when we drove GLs (which was a long time ago), they definitely weren't comparable to a same-year s class. 

Nowadays you can get Koreans that hey you most of the way to an sclass.

----------


## max_boost

> the features and driving experience in cars has gotten compressed to the point where a "premium" car isn't that much better than a mid-range car.
> 
> It used to be you'd spend a lot more to get a lot more. Now you spend a lot more to get a marginally better experience (if that). Now the cost of the vehicles is the primary feature, rather than it being a consequence of the spending more in search of a better experience. The only reason to spend more is to get a brand badge.
> 
> Basically high end vehicles are just Yeezy and Balenciaga sneakers.



Ahaha yesss I love this explanation lol

----------


## rage2

I still disagree with 
@Buster
 here. I've cross shopped the Korean cars, Kia and Hyundai are basically somewhere between A and C class Benz as comparables. They're all littered with cheap plastics made to look expensive. The prices reflect that, and the price gap really isn't that big between Koreans and Germans. 

Higher up the scale are Genesis, they IMO sit somewhere between the E and the S Class cars. Again, prices reflect that as well. Where you're paying stupid money is when you go for the performance on the Germans, which the Koreans can't really match, so there aren't any comparables. You have the stinger which competes with the C43 at similar price point as well. The EV6 is somewhere between C43 and C63, and also priced between them. There's a narrative that Koreans are doing German cars a lot cheaper, which was the case early on but I don't think it's that huge of a gap anymore.

But yes, I guess if you're just comparing option lists between mid-range and premium, they're kinda comparable? There's still a significant amount of value in premium offerings IMO that can't be just compared with the options list. Yeezy's are terrible shoes and wouldn't be "premium" without the name. More like Tesla's.

----------


## Buster

The difference in performance and function no longer justifies the price premium. So you're just paying for brand flex... Hence Yeezy.

----------


## rage2

> The difference in performance and function no longer justifies the price premium. So you're just paying for brand flex... Hence Yeezy.



There's a big gap between price, but I disagree that the gap between performance/function is minor. It's like arguing flying business class isn't worth it. You ever sit in the back of a modern S class? Fucking power seats, seat massagers, and air scarf. Then there's the ride quality, you can fly over speed bumps and not even feel it. It's a massive gap compared to an E. Thinking otherwise, you're just cheap haha.

----------


## Buster

An s class sedan might be the exception. But SUVs aren't

----------


## Team_Mclaren

> An s class sedan might be the exception. But SUVs aren't




This I dont disagree. I find riding in a X7 vs. X5 and GLS vs. GLE to be very comparable. X3 and GLC on the other hand feels like a peasant truck wagon.

But the gap on sedans are very different.

----------


## killramos

I think the X7 and X5 are intentionally identical aside from length?

I know the new ones get the weird front end like the 7 series, but aside from that the X7 is basically an X5 LWB.

Unless I’m missing something?

----------


## you&me

> It's a good point. I'm not even sure about recent times. I do know that when we drove GLs (which was a long time ago), they definitely weren't comparable to a same-year s class. 
> 
> Nowadays you can get Koreans that hey you most of the way to an sclass.



We used to drive the two previous GL(S) up until the current gen came out, when we outgrew their practicality... Which is a real shame, because in hindsight, the previous GLs and GLS' were more comparable to lengthened ML/GLEs than the "S Class of SUVs", which is closer to what the current gen is than a bigger GLE (though it's nicer than it used to be as well). 

As Rage said, if you only look at an option list, the Koreans and Germans might seem comparable, but the real differentiator is the quality of materials and the aggregate experience they deliver.

----------


## rage2

> An s class sedan might be the exception. But SUVs aren't



To be fair, I don't do SUVs, and I find them all to be lipstick on a pig. There's a reason why every manufacturer builds so many of them, it's like printing money. Margins are absolutely massive on SUVs.




> We used to drive the two previous GL(S) up until the current gen came out, when we outgrew their practicality... Which is a real shame, because in hindsight, the previous GLs and GLS' were more comparable to lengthened ML/GLEs than the "S Class of SUVs", which is closer to what the current gen is than a bigger GLE (though it's nicer than it used to be as well).



I'm surprised at your comment on the new GLS, guess I gotta check it out. My parents had the old GL(S), still has one, and yea, they're just extended ML's.

----------


## you&me

> I'm surprised at your comment on the new GLS, guess I gotta check it out. My parents had the old GL(S), still has one, and yea, they're just extended ML's.



Yeah, the new GLS' are a quantum leap from the previous gens and the interior's really a nice place to be. Quality switchgear, nappa leather, etc... the general layout and ergonomics feels expensive.

----------


## Xtrema

> So, what does everyone think… will luxury tax be around forever? If we can elect a conservative federal government will we see it go? 
> 
> Definitely a tough pill to swallow.. throwing away 10% of the cars total value because of our hopeless government.



Harper only knocked down GST by 2%. A conservative win will not get rid of any taxes or it will tank CAD and make inflation worse.

Let alone luxury tax, I can't even see carbon tax going anywhere.





> This I dont disagree. I find riding in a X7 vs. X5 and GLS vs. GLE to be very comparable. X3 and GLC on the other hand feels like a peasant truck wagon.
> 
> But the gap on sedans are very different.




The touch points for latest round of MB product is a lot cheaper than last round. Was in a GLS and weight of the shift stalk feels like A class and cheap plasticky. W206 C class also has a way cheaper interior than W205, same goes with GLC counterpart.

----------


## jutes

Keep buying used and let the 1%/beyonders take the initial hit.

----------


## Buster

> Harper only knocked down GST by 2%. A conservative win will not get rid of any taxes or it will tank CAD and make inflation worse.
> 
> Let alone luxury tax, I can't even see carbon tax going anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The touch points for latest round of MB product is a lot cheaper than last round. Was in a GLS and weight of the shift stalk feels like A class and cheap plasticky. W206 C class also has a way cheaper interior than W205, same goes with GLC counterpart.



Wait, you're suggesting that reducing taxes will have a negative impact on the value of the Canadian dollar?

----------


## haggis88

My 2023 Kia is supposedly about to get to Vancouver this week

MSRP with no markups according to my sales bro...who told me I could flip it for 10k more the next day if I felt like it  :ROFL!:

----------


## Rocket1k78

> My 2023 Kia is supposedly about to get to Vancouver this week
> 
> MSRP with no markups according to my sales bro...who told me I could flip it for 10k more the next day if I felt like it



Im surprised he only said $10k lol This is car sales so dont count your chickens yet.... Sales bros are not the ones you need to worry about, its the finance bros.

----------


## DonJuan

> Im surprised he only said $10k lol This is car sales so dont count your chickens yet.... Sales bros are not the ones you need to worry about, its the finance bros.



Finance bros are the worst.

Me: I'd like to pay directly from my bank
Finance Bro: Here are our financing options
Me: Can I just pay the agreed price?
Finance Bro: So our 2% for 48 months is a great deal
Me: Take money, give me car.
Finance Bro: Just sign here so we can go ahead with the credit check

----------


## Buster

> Yeah, the new GLS' are a quantum leap from the previous gens and the interior's really a nice place to be. Quality switchgear, nappa leather, etc... the general layout and ergonomics feels expensive.



interesting. I'll have to check them out again.

I'm too lazy to check - can you get captain's chairs now?

----------


## nismodrifter

> I'm too lazy to check - can you get captain's chairs now?



No.

----------


## Xtrema

> Wait, you're suggesting that reducing taxes will have a negative impact on the value of the Canadian dollar?



How the hell are we going to service debt that's piled up over the years?

Isn't that now the Brits drove the pounds down?

----------


## lilmira

You can get 2nd row captain chairs but you lose massage. I duuno, some kind of patriarchy thing, captain is too masculine for massage.

----------


## you&me

> interesting. I'll have to check them out again.
> 
> I'm too lazy to check - can you get captain's chairs now?



Yes, this is the first gen with captains chairs in the second row.

----------


## ercchry

> You can get 2nd row captain chairs but you lose massage. I duuno, some kind of patriarchy thing, captain is too masculine for massage.



As long as you refer to Buster as the Captain I don’t think he minds

----------


## Buster

> How the hell are we going to service debt that's piled up over the years?
> 
> Isn't that now the Brits drove the pounds down?



Increasing taxes to manage deficits is kert talk.

Increasing tax rates is only one way to increase tax receipts. Increasing tax receipts is only one way to manage deficits.

----------


## BavarianBeast

We need to pass a bill where we get our LT back in April after filing taxes

----------


## bjstare

> interesting. I'll have to check them out again.
> 
> I'm too lazy to check - can you get captain's chairs now?



Yes, and they're actually quite nice. The downside is you lose the third row.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> So ^this was in mid November and at the same time, someone mentioned Carvana as being on the verge of collapse. (Incidentally, that made me look up their stock which had surged 20% to temp sit at about $9.80 and I yelled SHORT! ... It's currently at about $4.50).
> 
> So, what has developed in the last 6 weeks on this front? I became very excited for a collapse.



Personally I am much busier than usual in my line of work. Normally December-February is a struggle to stay busy but other than one week last month Im full speed ahead. Still a mixture of people with reasonable used asking prices and people who think their 2022 F350 Lariat with 171000km is worth $10k over msrp.

----------


## you&me

> Yes, and they're actually quite nice. The downside is you lose the third row.



That's the Maybach. 

The regular GLS, while much improved, is not _that_ nice.

----------


## Buster

it seems you can get the captains chairs in the regular GLS nowadays.

----------


## bjstare

> That's the Maybach. 
> 
> The regular GLS, while much improved, is not _that_ nice.

----------


## nismodrifter

Well thats my bad then, I thought captain chairs were a no go.

----------


## flipstah

If anyone looking for 0% financing deals, there isn't much out there:

https://www.carfax.com/blog/0-apr-car-deals

Unless you want a Toyota Mirai and you have your own hydrogen filling station  :ROFL!:

----------


## 88CRX

When do we start getting recession car deals again?

----------


## killramos

> That's the Maybach. 
> 
> The regular GLS, while much improved, is not _that_ nice.



Never be poor

----------


## Xtrema

> When do we start getting recession car deals again?



Soon and never.

----------


## ercchry

> Soon and never.



Interest rates will reach a level high enough to curb demand, but the reaction from dealers will be to subsidize these rates, so cash incentives will be nonexistent in an attempt to keep the wheels moving, meanwhile the used demand will stay strong as more people are priced out of new and will hold their underwater trades instead of give them back as they don’t have the cash to downsize to something free and clear either… eventually it all reaches a boiling point as the big 3 demand a bailout… and history repeats

----------


## max_boost

Lol are these GL/S things in the showroom. Might go loiter at Benz and see what the hype is about haha

----------


## Xtrema

> Lol are these GL/S things in the showroom. Might go loiter at Benz and see what the hype is about haha



They definitely have a few on the lot outside at Lonestar when I drove by last week. Showroom is YMMV but they seems to always have one when I'm in for service.

They are blasting ads about having 100+ inventory ready to be moved and the front lot isn't as empty as it was last summer, so who knows.




> Interest rates will reach a level high enough to curb demand, but the reaction from dealers will be to subsidize these rates, so cash incentives will be nonexistent in an attempt to keep the wheels moving, meanwhile the used demand will stay strong as more people are priced out of new and will hold their underwater trades instead of give them back as they don’t have the cash to downsize to something free and clear either… eventually it all reaches a boiling point as the big 3 demand a bailout… and history repeats



Well, $7500 USD EV rebate in US is already a bailout of sorts.

Teaser rates are all set by manufacturers and I don't see them doing it until closer to summer clearance season if stuff are still stuck on lots. Lots are filling up better now it seems. How desperate are the dealers if they just go from no products in 2022 to no buyers in 2023? Isn't that just a wash or latter is worse?

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## Buster

> Interest rates will reach a level high enough to curb demand, but the reaction from dealers will be to subsidize these rates, so cash incentives will be nonexistent in an attempt to keep the wheels moving, meanwhile the used demand will stay strong as more people are priced out of new and will hold their underwater trades instead of give them back as they don’t have the cash to downsize to something free and clear either… eventually it all reaches a boiling point as the big 3 demand a bailout… and history repeats



I don't think the used market will stay strong. There is too much spare production capacity.

----------


## ercchry

> I don't think the used market will stay strong. There is too much spare production capacity.



I never thought it would have got so strong due to the lack of transportation needs over the last 3 years… but if an interruption in new production was enough to trigger that sort of demand in that environment, what will the results in lower new demand, higher needs to travel (but probably also higher unemployment rates) hold for the market?

----------


## max_boost

> I don't think the used market will stay strong. There is too much spare production capacity.



Cheap 911 turbo be nice  :Big Grin:

----------


## killramos

My buddy just bought a GLS63.

It was nice, not dramatically so? At least not that I noticed when we took me for a rip.

I find Mercedes new S and E dashboards with the lazy screens, scream cheap.

----------


## BavarianBeast

> I don't think the used market will stay strong. There is too much spare production capacity.



Depends on the vehicle imo. Watch the good naturally aspirated V8/10/12s go through the roof over the next 4-5 years. I think E9x M3 is one of the best car investments right now if you want to drive it.

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## Buster

> I never thought it would have got so strong due to the lack of transportation needs over the last 3 years… but if an interruption in new production was enough to trigger that sort of demand in that environment, what will the results in lower new demand, higher needs to travel (but probably also higher unemployment rates) hold for the market?



If there is lower demand, then the secondary market will be impacted by that.

Also I'm drunk as shit, so don't make any good good arguments refuting my points until my hangover is done sometime mid morning.

----------


## ercchry

> If there is lower demand *(new)*, then the secondary market will be impacted by that..



Yes  :Smilie: 

It’s essentially the same core argument why enthusiasts predict appreciation in such vehicles bb just mentioned, and of course that prick needed to specifically mention the car I sold at the bottom (and he did too at least)  :ROFL!:

----------


## BavarianBeast

Hahaha, I just about broke even on my M3 even after a supercharger!

----------


## bjstare

> Hahaha, I just about broke even on my M3 even after a supercharger!



I've been looking for an E90 for a while now, it's already hard to find a clean one (let alone for a reasonable price).

----------


## vengie

> I've been looking for an E90 for a while now, it's already hard to find a clean one (let alone for a reasonable price).



This  :Frown: 

Should have bought one a few years ago when I was looking... Hindsight 20/20.

----------


## jutes

lol I've been looking for another E90 as well, only semi-decent one right now is in Hamilton. Seems clean despite the higher mileage.

----------


## bjstare

I think they bottomed in like 2018. Whenever 
@ercchry
 sold his, IIRC a decently clean one could be had in the mid-$20k range. I doubt we'll see prices that low again.

----------


## ercchry

For sale from summer 2019…. Till I gave it away on trade when I got the ranger in early 2020… sigh

----------


## vengie

You had a 4dr 6spd if I remember correctly?

----------


## max_boost

Selling at the bottom - story of my life lol sighs indeed 

- insert buster quote on regrets 

 :Whipped:

----------


## ercchry

> You had a 4dr 6spd if I remember correctly?



Yes, but 08 and “tHe RoD BeARiNGs NeED tO bE DoNe” ….and just ignoring the other $12k in crap that was already addressed (throttle actuators, etc, etc) so essentially worthless 

…meanwhile people are now asking more for 200k km 328s  :Cry:

----------


## flipstah

> Yes, but 08 and “tHe RoD BeARiNGs NeED tO bE DoNe” ….and just ignoring the other $12k in crap that was already addressed (throttle actuators, etc, etc) so essentially worthless 
> 
> …meanwhile people are now asking more for 200k km 328s



That car was epic.

----------


## ercchry

> That car was epic.



Rwd + haka’s makes winter fun… thank you for not pooping in it  :ROFL!:

----------


## jutes

> Yes, but 08 and “tHe RoD BeARiNGs NeED tO bE DoNe” ….and just ignoring the other $12k in crap that was already addressed (throttle actuators, etc, etc) so essentially worthless 
> 
> …meanwhile people are now asking more for 200k km 328s



Were you still on the stock clutch? I disliked the rubbery feeling of my 08, maybe its just a BMW thing. UCP clutch pedal helped a bit with the feel.

The bearing thing you could go either way. Never had abnormal copper readings on my Blackstone reports over 100k, so I just left it be. It's amazing what forums can stir up.

----------


## Rocket1k78

> When do we start getting recession car deals again?



Somethings gotta give you'd think. The cost of everything has been fucking nuts for the last year and theres no end in sight so i have no idea how your average joe sustaining this, i forget what the % is of people living check to check is but i recall it being high and this was before the shit hit the fan.

----------


## bjstare

> For sale from summer 2019…. Till I gave it away on trade when I got the ranger in early 2020… sigh



Ya I strongly considered buying yours. Bought an S2k instead - which was a good buy, I just made the mistake of selling it for a small profit haha.

----------


## Xtrema

> Somethings gotta give you'd think. The cost of everything has been fucking nuts for the last year and theres no end in sight so i have no idea how your average joe sustaining this, i forget what the % is of people living check to check is but i recall it being high and this was before the shit hit the fan.



More than 50% and more than 25% can't pay credit card debt in full monthly.

Gen X due to child rearing age range are the heaviest in debt.

----------


## rage2

> I think they bottomed in like 2018. Whenever 
> @ercchry
>  sold his, IIRC a decently clean one could be had in the mid-$20k range. I doubt we'll see prices that low again.



Sounds about right. I was tracking the convertibles religiously and they bottomed at high 20s. I would’ve bought too if it wasn’t for the difficulty in finding black on black with dsg. I guess only idiots buy black interiors on convertibles so it’s really rare.

----------


## 94boosted

> This 
> 
> Should have bought one a few years ago when I was looking... Hindsight 20/20.



Ditto, I wish I bought a clean 2013 E90 ZCP back when low mileage examples could be had for $50K. They're a bit boring on the street due to lack of torque, but when you grab them by the scruff of the neck and drive them hard, they are magnificent.

----------


## rage2

> Ditto, I wish I bought a clean 2013 E90 ZCP back when low mileage examples could be had for $50K. They're a bit boring on the street due to lack of torque, but when you grab them by the scruff of the neck and drive them hard, they are magnificent.



They also sound ridiculously good paired with a good exhaust. Probably the best sounding car I’ve heard. Makes up for the boring drive in a different way. My neighbor had one, that’s what drew me to them.

They’re definitely not fast cars, and make you work hard for speed. Needs a supercharger haha.

----------


## Hallowed_point

> They also sound ridiculously good paired with a good exhaust. Probably the best sounding car Ive heard. Makes up for the boring drive in a different way. My neighbor had one, thats what drew me to them.
> 
> Theyre definitely not fast cars, and make you work hard for speed. Needs a supercharger haha.



4.10 gears  :Devil:

----------


## 94boosted

> They also sound ridiculously good paired with a good exhaust. Probably the best sounding car I’ve heard. Makes up for the boring drive in a different way. My neighbor had one, that’s what drew me to them.
> 
> They’re definitely not fast cars, and make you work hard for speed. Needs a supercharger haha.



I got the chance to autocross of few of them, most recently a few years ago, had to find the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uzKoRf9Fus). I just remember it being so damn easy to throttle steer, and the brakes were just unflappable. Agreed on the sound.

----------


## bjstare

> They also sound ridiculously good paired with a good exhaust. Probably the best sounding car I’ve heard. Makes up for the boring drive in a different way. My neighbor had one, that’s what drew me to them.
> 
> They’re definitely not fast cars, and make you work hard for speed. Needs a supercharger haha.



They are wild with the supercharger. I went to check out the supercharged sedan that someone posted in the fall, and the seller took me for a ride. It was fast.

----------


## ercchry

The sound was bad for fuel economy… 17L/100km average, cause noises  :ROFL!:

----------


## shakalaka

Hindsight is always 20/20. I could have kept my Aston Martin for 2 extra years and break even on it, rather than unloading it back then and taking a hit on it. My story is same with most of the cars since I go through so many. Fucking sucks, but it is what it is.

----------


## rage2

> They are wild with the supercharger. I went to check out the supercharged sedan that someone posted in the fall, and the seller took me for a ride. It was fast.



Damn, almost 9 years ago since I drove and wrote about this one. 

http://www.beyond.ca/the-track-rat-e...-m3/39385.html

That was a well sorted car.

----------


## 94boosted

> Damn, almost 9 years ago since I drove and wrote about this one. 
> 
> http://www.beyond.ca/the-track-rat-e...-m3/39385.html
> 
> That was a well sorted car.



You've got to revive those old reviews, maybe get a beyond.ca youtube channel going  :Big Grin:

----------


## BavarianBeast

I’ve been looking for a clean e93 m3 6sp. Would like to do the same supercharger set up I had on my e92. 

That car was flawless after building the engine and adding supercharger. Sounded exotic and blew the doors off most other cars on the road.

----------


## bjstare

I really wanted an E93 til I found out they were >400lb heavier than the others. Not sure I love that, it's slow enough as-is without a blower haha.

Seems like E93s are the easiest to find though, seems to be more of them listed than 90/92.

----------


## SkiBum5.0

E9x will eventually overtake the e46 as the best M3 once people forget the truly analog era. I had two, 08 Interlagos coupe with DCT, and then a 2010 Dinan S2 sedan with a 6spd. I love them, and I think there are lots being garaged that will be good value in 5-10 years

----------


## BavarianBeast

> I really wanted an E93 til I found out they were >400lb heavier than the others. Not sure I love that, it's slow enough as-is without a blower haha.
> 
> Seems like E93s are the easiest to find though, seems to be more of them listed than 90/92.



I just want the open air experience of that car howling down the road with a supercharger and full exhaust haha

I agree, e9x m3 will be the most desirable and expensive aside from e30 in years to come imo.

----------


## A2VR6

> Yes, but 08 and “tHe RoD BeARiNGs NeED tO bE DoNe” ….and just ignoring the other $12k in crap that was already addressed (throttle actuators, etc, etc) so essentially worthless 
> 
> …meanwhile people are now asking more for 200k km 328s




Its the car I still regret selling to this day. I miss it dearly.

----------


## redline

I ran into a guy that lives in my area about a year ago that has a black on black e93 with a ess 575 if remember correctly … he was thinking of selling it , I wonder if he ever did …

----------


## VTEXTC

Loving the love for the E90 on Beyond! The induction and exhaust sound of the glorious S65 simply cannot be replicated. We are lucky to have ordered one of the last 2011.75 sedans with Competition pack and our car has ridiculously low mileage after 12 years. She's a keeper for sure.

----------


## BavarianBeast

> I ran into a guy that lives in my area about a year ago that has a black on black e93 with a ess 575 if remember correctly … he was thinking of selling it , I wonder if he ever did …



If it had a red interior it was listed this summer for around $47k which I thought was reasonable. I don’t like red leather though. 

Beautiful car Vtextc. Even the red leather ha ha.

----------


## nismodrifter

> Loving the love for the E90 on Beyond! The induction and exhaust sound of the glorious S65 simply cannot be replicated. We are lucky to have ordered one of the last 2011.75 sedans with Competition pack and our car has ridiculously low mileage after 12 years. She's a keeper for sure.



Super OG of beyond. Always love seeing a 
@VTEXTC
 post. Love the car.

----------


## VTEXTC

Bahaha. Whats wrong with me eh....keeping the same car for 12 years. Let alone one with a red leather interior  :crazy nut:

----------


## rage2

> Bahaha. Whats wrong with me eh....keeping the same car for 12 years. Let alone one with a red leather interior



You BMW people have the most out there tastes with interiors haha. Like I said, finding a boring black interior was next to impossible. Meanwhile every used merc is boring black interior.

Nice to see you back.

----------


## VTEXTC

> You BMW people have the most out there tastes with interiors haha. Like I said, finding a boring black interior was next to impossible. Meanwhile every used merc is boring black interior.
> 
> Nice to see you back.



Thanks pal! Hope you’ve been well. I’m still in the ‘hood. Should do a cup sometime!

----------


## jutes

White on red bmw and a Starbucks within 25m. Typical. :Big Grin:

----------


## VTEXTC

> White on red bmw and a Starbucks within 25m. Typical.



Touché. And before anyone else weighs in, that oil stain doesn’t belong to _my_ BMW

----------


## Hallowed_point

> Touché. And before anyone else weighs in, that oil stain doesn’t belong to _my_ BMW ��



 BMW's burn oil, they don't leak it  :Angel: 

Also, red leather is the correct choice when presented with the option. Love it on a white or black BMW, Corvette, Mustang etc.

----------


## flipstah

potato pohtato

----------


## 88CRX

> red interior



Honda reference in user name (maybe, maybe not?).... red interior.... makes sense. 

Ricer red interior FTW

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

Red cloth/alcantara? Hot. Red leather? Gross.

----------


## VTEXTC

> Honda reference in user name (maybe, maybe not?).... red interior.... makes sense. 
> 
> Ricer red interior FTW



Indeed!

----------


## 88CRX

> Red cloth/alcantara? Hot. Red leather? Gross.



I dont care if its red vinyl pleather... if its red, its Type R fast.

----------


## riander5

Red is Right

----------


## redline

> Red is Right



I have been saying that for years  


Go back 15 yrs and a nice brown interior was out there on a bmw  now it seems louder the better  atleast for people that order cars , ones that the dealer order are pretty standard boring

----------


## Buster

I like red interiors

----------


## 03ozwhip

> I like red interiors



I love a white on red. Was looking for an X5 in one but couldn't find one anywhere. Ended up with black/mocha.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> I like red interiors



This explains a lot.

----------


## killramos

I love my brown interior

----------


## BavarianBeast

No skid marks when your driving commando

----------


## killramos

> No skid marks when your driving commando



Yea it’s jeans that really ruin it…

Commando is just being responsible.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Imdoingmypart.gif

----------


## INITIALD

.

- - - Updated - - -




> I dont care if its red vinyl pleather... if its red, its Type R fast.



Like painted red brake calipers?  :Pooosie:

----------


## killramos

I thought painted yellow calipers were the rage these says

----------


## max_boost

Classic black leather or GTI plaid for me but if it’s type r it’s gotta be red !

----------


## mr2mike

With some Razo shift knob dress ups.

----------


## bjstare

Bring on the deals.

----------


## Buster

The next year might be interesting

----------


## littledan

Looks like ppl used their cerb money to pay their car loans?

----------


## Buster

Or were car loans given a holiday in some cases?

----------


## BavarianBeast

I was just going to tell somebody to buy this because it was a smoking deal. But I guess it sold in a few hours..

Saw this 2018 Lamborghini Huracan on AutoTrader's iPhone app 
http://www.autotrader.ca/go/5-57268668

----------


## killramos

380 for a Huracan is a smoking deal?

I must be out of touch.

----------


## BavarianBeast

Performante Spyder, yeah. It’s one of the rarer and better Huracan variants. Most of these are trading for a hell of a lot more all throughout North America.

This one sold for $308k usd on BaT back in December, and the Spyder is arguably more desirable. 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...erformante-18/

----------


## killramos

Huh, cool.

----------


## flipstah

> Bring on the deals.



M5 Competition?! Mmmmm

----------

