# Lounge > Real Estate / Finance >  Estate Planning advice thread,

## ExtraSlow

Been lots of side conversations about "die broke" and such. What kind of estate planning shit is on your mind, either for yourself, or for relatives?

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/stor...ll-11665414593 



This article caught my eye today. Clearly a case where disbursing the majority of an estate before death would have been simpler.

----------


## vengie

This just happened to a guy I play hockey with. 

His Grandma just passed away and left her entire estate to him and him alone... Not a small sum either... Causing a massive fuss for him as the rest of the family is in pure WTF mode.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

My parents started giving me a small amount each year and selling me larger items at discount prices a few years ago. They sat down and did a bunch of math and figured it was going to get taxed a lot less handing it out at a steady rate now rather than at the end.

----------


## BavarianBeast

It’s insane to see how money can change people and greed can just rot to the core. I’ve seen and heard of a lot of bad wills, trusts, estates and there really isn’t an easy solution. Give your kids enough to get through university and a small start if you can and donate the rest  :dunno:  :dunno:

----------


## gwill

I'm in charge of an estate right now. It sucks. From dealing with lawyers, insurance companies, banks. Not fun. Now throw in the fact I was put in charge and not the older siblings and the battles that have ensued.

All I'll say is the banks suck to deal with. It took months to get POA over bank accounts. By that time the family member passed away. Took even longer for the banks to sort crap out once they were informed of the passing. Insurance companies dealing with large sums of money were quicker and easier than the banks.

No matter what the executor does you get shit on by the family so don't try and make anyone happy. 

I'm also involved in another estate tied up in litigation and the amount of emails I get from the 7 lawyers involved makes it impossible to keep up to date. The costs involved are insane... no one wins there.

----------


## Buster

> I'm in charge of an estate right now. It sucks. From dealing with lawyers, insurance companies, banks. Not fun. Now throw in the fact I was put in charge and not the older siblings and the battles that have ensued.
> 
> All I'll say is the banks suck to deal with. It took months to get POA over bank accounts. By that time the family member passed away. Took even longer for the banks to sort crap out once they were informed of the passing. Insurance companies dealing with large sums of money were quicker and easier than the banks.
> 
> No matter what the executor does you get shit on by the family so don't try and make anyone happy. 
> 
> I'm also involved in another estate tied up in litigation and the amount of emails I get from the 7 lawyers involved makes it impossible to keep up to date. The costs involved are insane... no one wins there.



Username checks out

----------


## dirtsniffer

You can get all 3 documents for a couple from hotzel law for $500. If you don't have plans you should make them.

----------


## spike98

> I'm in charge of an estate right now. It sucks. From dealing with lawyers, insurance companies, banks. Not fun. Now throw in the fact I was put in charge and not the older siblings and the battles that have ensued.
> 
> All I'll say is the banks suck to deal with. It took months to get POA over bank accounts. By that time the family member passed away. Took even longer for the banks to sort crap out once they were informed of the passing. Insurance companies dealing with large sums of money were quicker and easier than the banks.
> 
> No matter what the executor does you get shit on by the family so don't try and make anyone happy. 
> 
> I'm also involved in another estate tied up in litigation and the amount of emails I get from the 7 lawyers involved makes it impossible to keep up to date. The costs involved are insane... no one wins there.



I hear you. I was the executor for my dad's estate and it was a mess. Not really from in-family fighting, just from him not having his ducks in a row. Now his brother recently passed and his estate is going to be a shit show. Possibly a fraudulent will by a new wife leaving his kids with bubkiss. One thing for sure is be sure to pay yourself for your services as the executor. The courts will accept it if its reasonable. 

Regarding the banks, I had plenty of the same issues as well but if you can get a hold of the estates department of the bank, things go smoother.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Have a relative who is an executor right now. Dealing with some stocks, and the bank brokerage has lost the paperwork to sell twice, and is basically incompetent. They've had full authority to sell since August, but still no timeline when it will actually be done. Total mess.

----------


## killramos

Just don’t die

----------


## suntan

> Been lots of side conversations about "die broke" and such. What kind of estate planning shit is on your mind, either for yourself, or for relatives?
> 
> https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/stor...ll-11665414593 
> 
> 
> 
> This article caught my eye today. Clearly a case where disbursing the majority of an estate before death would have been simpler.



Apparently in BC courts can overrule the will.

----------


## SJW

> Just don’t die



Solid plan. I've become a vampire. Still poor though.

----------


## schurchill39

So I think this is one of the few places where the answer is to be poor.

----------


## max_boost

I plan to spend it all

----------


## jutes

> My parents started giving me a small amount each year and selling me larger items at discount prices a few years ago. They sat down and did a bunch of math and figured it was going to get taxed a lot less handing it out at a steady rate now rather than at the end.



Assuming the "estate" you are left with is nothing but a bank account and cash, could you not just be placed on the account to avoid any messes with transfers?

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Assuming the "estate" you are left with is nothing but a bank account and cash, could you not just be placed on the account to avoid any messes with transfers?



Not sure, I know they were planning to put my name on property titles too just in case. I am an only child and don’t really have much family so things are a little easier.

----------


## gwill

> Assuming the "estate" you are left with is nothing but a bank account and cash, could you not just be placed on the account to avoid any messes with transfers?



technically yes if its done in advance. Certain dollar values end up in probate so if you can move the cash around before someone passes if would prevent this money from being tied up. Things can get complicated once the bank hears of the person passing away. My lawyer did advise clear out large sums of $$ before that happens.

Open a bank account that's the same as your family and link their accounts to yours. Makes Transferring funds super easy

----------


## Pauly Boy

Ha, I saw that pop up in my feed yesterday. Prob thought that by doing this there would be nothing to fight over or (the more likely scenario) his family was a bunch of cunts, lol.

I should really discuss these matters with my parents though as my dad is only dialysis now, so only a matter of time. It'll be a nightmare dealing with their hoarding and the other entitled side of the family either way though...

----------


## tonytiger55

Ive seen the trauma of dealing with estates at the bank. Then the life insurance side of things gave a understanding if done right can bypass a lot of the crap. Ive had lawyers lie to clients that things must be done through them in regards to the estate. FYI lawyers can't advise on life insurance. 
After my sister and dad passed. Ive stated to plan out things a bit more. Statistically females outlive men but will have more health issues, and will likley run out of money in old age. 
So I am looking at ways how my estate may help my siblngs who will outlive me. 

For the love of god, have these conversations with your parents. Don't wait till they get old. Age has a strange effect on the mind and can hinder any process to do things right. At the end of the day The government, banks and lawyers want a piece of that pie. 
Figure out any tax implications and then speak to a good life agent to see if there are any options. Taxation can but cut in half as a example, payout is direct. No government, lawyers or anyone else can touch it. People forget its a wealth transfer tool that is tax free.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Lot of old people end up as hoarders for some reason. Start junking and disbursing shit early and often.

----------


## Pacman

curious to see some of the information on here as I'm always curious about tweaking our will.

We have ours set up with staggered payments to the kids so they don't get the full lump sum amount all at once. They get 4 payments at various ages. I figure that way, if my wife and I die before they are 18, they won't get one massive lump sum and blow it all and regret it later.

----------


## prodigydud

So my old man is widowed, and I'm the only child. His will is in place. However.....there's a new girlfriend in the mix - potentially soon-to-be wife, and it appears she's draining his funds quite quickly.

What's the best way to protect his assets and ensuring it gets passed down to me? (Assuming he still wants to pass things down to me, of course.). I keep telling him that getting married changes the course of his will, but he doesn't seem to think so. 

I was thinking about just doing a land transfer on his primary residence with me as the sole owner, but I suspect that'll trigger capital gains later in the future - I guess that's better than nothing. 

Thoughts?

----------


## vengie

Have you considered fucking the new wife's Dad?

----------


## ExtraSlow

Well, firstly, he needs to be on board. It's his money, and if letting the new broad spend it make him happy, then that's what'll happen.

----------


## prodigydud

> Have you considered fucking the new wife's Dad?



Haha...no thanks.

- - - Updated - - -




> Well, firstly, he needs to be on board. It's his money, and if letting the new broad spend it make him happy, then that's what'll happen.



100% agreed. But assuming he wants to leave things to me, I'm pretty sure it goes to spouse first.

----------


## vengie

> 100% agreed. But assuming he wants to leave things to me, I'm pretty sure it goes to spouse first.



Incorrect, it goes to who is in the will IF there is anything left.

She can milk him dry before that happens.

Your best course of action would be to have him "gift" it to you now in installments.
That said if she is serious enough where they are talking marriage she is going to have some serious sway in his financial decisions.

----------


## prodigydud

> Incorrect, it goes to who is in the will IF there is anything left.
> 
> She can milk him dry before that happens.
> 
> Your best course of action would be to have him "gift" it to you now in installments.
> That said if she is serious enough where they are talking marriage she is going to have some serious sway in his financial decisions.



Thanks! Good to know the will is still in play. He's added me as joint owner on some of his bank account, hence how I'm seeing his spending habits - haven't said much but kinda sad seeing how much $$$ he's dropped so far. 

He's gifted some money already for his grandkids' education, which is nice. 

How about the house?....presuming she'll live with him, isn't there a dower act to keep his wife living there indefinitely? I presume the house would go to her, regardless of what will says, no?

----------


## TomcoPDR

> Thanks! Good to know the will is still in play. He's added me as joint owner on some of his bank account, hence how I'm seeing his spending habits - haven't said much but kinda sad seeing how much $$$ he's dropped so far. 
> 
> He's gifted some money already for his grandkids' education, which is nice. 
> 
> How about the house?....presuming she'll live with him, isn't there a dower act to keep his wife living there indefinitely? I presume the house would go to her, regardless of what will says, no?



Slowly withdraw some of that joint account money and just set it aside

Put his house under a family trust. (Or a technical of him selling his actual home if she’s already setup shop nesting there already with bills in her name going there, use that money, setup a family trust corporation, have the trust corporation purchase a “new to their relationship” property to live in), with you being the sole beneficiary, director.

----------


## prodigydud

> Slowly withdraw some of that joint account money and just set it aside
> 
> Put his house under a family trust. (Or a technical of him selling his actual home if she’s already setup shop nesting there already with bills in her name going there, use that money, setup a family trust corporation, have the trust corporation purchase a “new to their relationship” property to live in), with you being the sole beneficiary, director.



I'd probably leave the money alone - it's technically his.

Not very familiar with trusts......would I go see an estate lawyer to get this started?

----------


## gwill

> I'd probably leave the money alone - it's technically his.
> 
> Not very familiar with trusts......would I go see an estate lawyer to get this started?



curious if your dad's dying or expected to die soon? If not I'd say let him live his life. If someones swooping in knowing hes dying id take thar c#$% out. In my case i know my dad was giving Lots of money to specific siblings at certain times before he passed. 

One of the things I found most disturbing with my dad's estate was hearing how my siblings were jockeying for stuff well before he passed away. In your case it's just you but in my case it left a bad taste with how my family wanted dibs on specific stuff long before there were any health concerns.

----------


## Disoblige

Reading this shit is depressing.
Be decent, people.

----------


## spike98

> Reading this shit is depressing.
> Be decent, people.



When money is involved, people are usually cunts.

----------


## tonytiger55

> So my old man is widowed, and I'm the only child. His will is in place. However.....there's a new girlfriend in the mix - potentially soon-to-be wife, and it appears she's draining his funds quite quickly.
> 
> What's the best way to protect his assets and ensuring it gets passed down to me? (Assuming he still wants to pass things down to me, of course.). I keep telling him that getting married changes the course of his will, but he doesn't seem to think so. 
> 
> I was thinking about just doing a land transfer on his primary residence with me as the sole owner, but I suspect that'll trigger capital gains later in the future - I guess that's better than nothing. 
> 
> Thoughts?



Ive seen this scenario so many times. I might get really messy with lawyers after your father passes. 
Get the Will reviewed. I don't mean to be arsey, but pay attention to the wording in the context of scenarios. Lawyers are not alway that smart. 
The other option if you are reall worried about the estate. Depending on your fathers age is to get a life policy on him(you being the policy holder) and designate yourself as the beneficiary. Lawyers, CRA, common law etc can't touch the payout. There are different ways to structure it dependig on his age and ethnicity. But it depends on the size of the estate. Then factor cost vs payout.

----------


## suntan

I don't understand the life insurance. Let's say I have a million dollars, how does having whole life help me? Sounds like it's just used to cover taxes and fees.

----------


## TomcoPDR

Life insurance just means your next of kin doesn’t have to be poor, if you size it properly. Preferably $7.2 payout

- - - Updated - - -




> curious if your dad's dying or expected to die soon? If not I'd say let him live his life. If someones swooping in knowing hes dying id take thar c#$% out. In my case i know my dad was giving Lots of money to specific siblings at certain times before he passed. 
> 
> One of the things I found most disturbing with my dad's estate was hearing how my siblings were jockeying for stuff well before he passed away. In your case it's just you but in my case it left a bad taste with how my family wanted dibs on specific stuff long before there were any health concerns.



If I was to do it. It’d be accountant first for the setup, then their branch of legal team. Versus the other way imho.

----------


## tonytiger55

> I don't understand the life insurance. Let's say I have a million dollars, how does having whole life help me? Sounds like it's just used to cover taxes and fees.



Disclaimer. The following is NOT advice. Please see a qualifed professional. 

Whole life is just one product of many. It has no value or purpose unless it is being used to solve a problem. In the scenario you presented, I don't know what the problem is. 
Examples of issues are... If you died tomorrow(god forbid). How would your partner, children or family manage? So we need to do a risk asssesment. Take your salary after tax. Lets say its $45k. Then take your youngest child and times that by how many years are left till they are 18. Lets say they are 4 years old. So $45k x 14 is $630k. That is how much income your partner will be missing out on. Thats a assesment of that risk. Then there are other risks like mortgage, funeral costs and vehicles. So once a risk assement is done. Then the life agent can start looking at products. term, whole life etc to solve this problem. The products can be layered up so as the kids age and the mortgage is payed off. You don't need so much life insurance. So some polices can start to expire as they are not needed. So it can get cheaper as you age. 
So that is a family kind of scenario. 

Another scenario and I have posted this before is a extreme example of a large estate. If your parent is going to pass and the estate is going to be taxed at 3 million dollars. If they get a term life policy that goes up to 100 years. But the cost of that is 1.5 million, but the payout is 3 million. The tax bill has been cut in half. Nobody can touch the payout and it usually happens in a few days. Secondly lawyers and accountants by law can't advise on life products. 
Its a tax free way to transfering wealth. How it is structured depends on the estate and the potential problems that may arise. 

In prodigydud's scenario. Its hard to advise as we dont know the full details of the accounts and networth. One can only give general direction. 
But in another scenario with someone else. If the parent passes away tomorrow. Then the girlfriend claims common law as that is her golden ticket to retirement etc. Then sends in lawyers to dispute the Will etc. It can get messy. If the children ahead of time review the assets and networth. Then they take out a policy on the father. They have a insured interest. They can name themselves as a beneficiary. They can pay the policy, or the father can pay if he agrees. The father can liquidate the assests slowly to pay for this if need. Upon death the payout goes to the children. The CRA, Trudeu, gold diggers, lawyers, banks can't touch the payout. It bypasses the entire probate process. There is a cost. But that cost may pay for itself depending on variables such as the size of estate, risk of third parties laying claim and lawyer fees associated with that.

Edit: Lawyers or accountats can't advise on life stuff by law. Sometimes illgally advise against it as it would be mean the client will not need thier services so they lose out on $$$

----------


## suntan

Yeah I know purpose of life insurance thanks. Although lawyer can't touch the payment you still have to deal with the sons of bitches concerning the estate.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Thanks! Good to know the will is still in play.



Keep in mind, any will can be contested and drug out in court. Especially if they get married and he doesn't change the will to include her at all.

----------


## killramos

Also, you would be surprised at the tiny amounts of value families will squabble and destroy relationships over.

----------


## bjstare

> Also, you would be surprised at the tiny amounts of value families will squabble and destroy relationships over.



A divorce in my family had a small brass duck under contention (of negligible value) that ate up into the 5-figure range in lawyer fees. People are irrational.

----------


## prodigydud

Taking out a life insurance policy sounds a bit morbid, and doesn’t stop said girlfriend from getting his assets. But I get it - it ensures I maintain some sort of “inheritance”. 

For the record, my dad is young in his 70’s, and hopefully lots of years left.

- - - Updated - - -




> Keep in mind, any will can be contested and drug out in court. Especially if they get married and he doesn't change the will to include her at all.



Hence why I was thinking of working with him to change title of his home as myself as the sole owner.

----------

