# Car Forums > Automotive News >  Kia EV6 Debut

## rage2

577hp AWD
0-100 in 3.5 seconds
Tow hitch (prob only 100km of towing range tho)
Alcantara buckets from the Veloster N
800V charging as fast as Taycan
Probably around 80k CAD

Checks a lot of boxes. Put a deposit down on one today.

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## killramos

Rage just bought a Kia

/beyond

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## rage2

At some point I gotta back up my comments of not being a MB fanboy.

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## killramos

It looks better than a model 3 at least. Not that that’s an accomplishment.

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## Buster

My interest in cars is quickly reaching a nadir

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## ExtraSlow

> At some point I gotta back up my comments of not being a MB fanboy.



I support this. Basically the e-stinger, which is good.

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## Darkane

> 577hp AWD
> 0-100 in 3.5 seconds
> Tow hitch (prob only 100km of towing range tho)
> Alcantara buckets from the Veloster N
> 800V charging as fast as Taycan
> Probably around 80k CAD
> 
> Checks a lot of boxes. Put a deposit down on one today.



PM me when you’re autocrossing it!!

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## rage2

> PM me when you’re autocrossing it!!



I don’t think it’s out for another year. Just wanted to get my name on it once more details come out and it’s the right fit. So far looks like it’s 90% what we want to replace the wagon.

I went to Northland Kia first, they did not present me with the 4 squares, but the staff was super nice. GM explained that they’ve been trying to be EV certified for years now with Kia being stingy and only having 1 dealer available for EVs in Alberta. Sent me there down south to 130th. Ordered it there. A little sad coming home driving by old race city.

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## Darkane

> I don’t think it’s out for another year. Just wanted to get my name on it once more details come out and it’s the right fit. So far looks like it’s 90% what we want to replace the wagon.
> 
> I went to Northland Kia first, they did not present me with the 4 squares, but the staff was super nice. GM explained that they’ve been trying to be EV certified for years now with Kia being stingy and only having 1 dealer available for EVs in Alberta. Sent me there down south to 130th. Ordered it there. A little sad coming home driving by old race city.



Yeah for sure. That’s a neat new strip of dealers though, Gigantic buildings.

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## Sky

Wow. The sun rose from the West today. I can see the value in this one and would consider over any ICE only daily driven utility vehicle. I don't see it as a "Kia" brand anymore with this. It's the whole Korean technology and design of cars today that's getting me excited. Including the Genesis models and hope they will have hybrids and EV soon. Checks off so many boxes that I may finally be able to overcome the EV range anxiety. So awesome cars are now packing crazy tech and designs instead of traditional incremental improvements. Thanks Tesla!

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## Buster

considering EVs like this Kia share far more with cell phones than they do with legacy ICE cars, I think the Koreans will start to do really well.

As Chris Harris says - cars are now basically just giant skateboards of batteries with an interior and body plunked on them.

I can't describe how excited this new future makes me!!

 :Barf:

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## nzwasp

Is that the most expensive car you can buy from kia? How come these Korean brands dont have a luxury brand like every other car maker around?

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## Disoblige

> Is that the most expensive car you can buy from kia? How come these Korean brands dont have a luxury brand like every other car maker around?



Genesis?..

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## shakalaka

I gotta say if I was buying an EV there is no way I would be spending upwards of $100K on a Model S or a Taycan and the likes...at least I don't think so.

So options such as this or a recently announced Genesis concept are great. Kia or not, that thing looks freaking great and for me personally since an EV will never be my only vehicle, I would definitely consider them as a daily/highway option. I just really hope they can implement a better charging network to make regular highway driving an actual possibility.

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## killramos

> I gotta say if I was buying an EV there is no way I would be spending upwards of $100K on a Model S or a Taycan and the likes...at least I don't think so.
> 
> So options such as this or a recently announced Genesis concept are great. Kia or not, that thing looks freaking great and for me personally since an EV will never be my only vehicle, I would definitely consider them as a daily/highway option. I just really hope they can implement a better charging network to make regular highway driving an actual possibility.



And good news for you! It’s a Kia, so probably available as a short term rental as part of their usual fleet!

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## rage2

> I gotta say if I was buying an EV there is no way I would be spending upwards of $100K on a Model S or a Taycan and the likes...at least I don't think so.
> 
> So options such as this or a recently announced Genesis concept are great. Kia or not, that thing looks freaking great and for me personally since an EV will never be my only vehicle, I would definitely consider them as a daily/highway option. I just really hope they can implement a better charging network to make regular highway driving an actual possibility.



I love the Taycan, but ya, I’m in a different league than Jordan. Only thing we have in common is justifying the silly cost for a little bit faster. 130k is basically my limit on cars so the Taycan just became too rich for my blood. As much as my kids love the farting Tesla, I can not stand the interior. While I have no idea how the EV6 interior is going to look, I spent a bunch of time in the stinger and Telluride to get a sense of what the baseline looks like, and aside from some shoddy leather/stitching work on the telluride, the non leather interior looks pretty good. It’s no Lexus in attention to detail, or great use of plastics like on the base MBs, I’d say it’s comparable to VW or even base Audi.

As for charging, I’ve been looking at our usual BC routes for years now, all the way back when even Tesla’s can barely do our routes in winter. Charging speed still kinda sucks, only 200kw speeds between Canmore and Kamloops. Probably be better by the time the ev6 arrives at the rate it’s been improving. For us, there’s chargers that’ll get us everywhere we usually go on long trips, been solid for a year already.

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## killramos

I like the EV6 seats?

I think I could see getting a PHEV SUV for trips and wife/baby mobile. I prefer the X5, but my wife wants to try an Audi so we will see what we do when the NX lease is up. SUV where all your in city driving electric but range anxiety free if you want to go farther is something I could see.

I’d get another Lexus but I haven’t seen anything particularly interesting out of them in this segment since... ever.

I don’t feel the need for my family SUV to be interesting or cool so seems like a logical place for a little EV time.

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## ExtraSlow

> I think I could see getting a PHEV SUV for trips and wife/baby mobile.



 +1

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## rage2

> I don’t feel the need for my family SUV to be interesting or cool so seems like a logical place for a little EV time.



Don’t get me wrong, my interests aren’t EV for the sake of EV. Having a family hauler that gives me straight line speed is a nice combo. Hell if they made a hellcat Pacifica I would buy that. I’m not in it to save gas or the environment.

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## nzwasp

> Genesis?..



Isn't genesis the luxury car of Hyundai?

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## Xtrema

> Isn't genesis the luxury car of Hyundai?



It's the same family....

Hyundai = Chevy
Kia = Buick/Pontiac
Genesis = Caddy




> I can't describe how excited this new future makes me!!



Future of cars is "does it run Netflix with HDR?"  :Big Grin: .

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## heavyD

IMO this is a beautiful looking SUV. That said while I'm sure my wife will eventually get an EV, I'm going to cling to ICE until the very end.

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## benyl

> Future of cars is "does it run Netflix with HDR?" .



Got to do something while you are waiting to charge... lol

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## JordanLotoski

These EV cars are going to change everything, power and styling

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## rage2

Drift mode standard. Intro featuring Albert Biermann.

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## Kloubek

> These EV cars are going to change everything, power and styling



I don't buy into the whole "green" concept, as seemingly reputable sources feel the environmental impact difference isn't as wide as claimed.

It's just better, more efficient power delivery... even "early" in the technology. Once all the big names are deep in it, the competing (and collaborative) r&d in such tech should be able to make it noticably better rather quickly. All this talk of such limited range won't even be a thing in a decade.

I still love high power ice engines. But unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective) that tech is dead.

On a side note, I'm super impressed with the Koreans. They are finally penning their own designs and making cars that people both want and afford, finally all with up to date tech.

It's been a long journey.

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## mrsingh

Wow this looks like an interesting option. I am still a sucker for the more conservatively styled options, I am curious what the new Audi Q4 eTron is going cost as I wouldn't mind that one as an option for the wife.




> It's just better, more efficient power delivery... even "early" in the technology. Once all the big names are deep in it, the competing (and collaborative) r&d in such tech should be able to make it noticably better rather quickly. All this talk of such limited range won't even be a thing in a decade.



I agree with you on this, which selfishly makes me wonder about my future as much of my career has been spent in the O&G industry.

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## hurrdurr

Car looks great - tech, styling, power all great numbers. However a speculative price just shy of 100k for the GT for a Kia? Thats a tough sell regardless of how well made it is. IMO. Thats an uphill battle for them even if Raj2 has a deposit on it lol

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## Buster

> These EV cars are going to change everything, power and styling



If you are a car enthusiast it won't be a change in a good way. EVs will turn cars into a ubiquitous, but entirely background technology. 

The distinction between premium cars and non premium cars will get compressed. The differences between cars will be the coach building on top of largely identical electric skateboards.

When EVs eliminate drivetrain as a distinguishing feature we'll all have a grand old time comparing steering wheel shapes and paint colors.

We won't be having any interesting discussions about cars.

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## danno

> If you are a car enthusiast it won't be a change in a good way. EVs will turn cars into a ubiquitous, but entirely background technology. 
> 
> The distinction between premium cars and non premium cars will get compressed. The differences between cars will be the coach building on top of largely identical electric skateboards.
> 
> When EVs eliminate drivetrain as a distinguishing feature we'll all have a grand old time comparing steering wheel shapes and paint colors.
> 
> We won't be having any interesting discussions about cars.



Your most likely right, so what's going to be the last greatest gas powered car?? we are in the last 10-20 years of gas powered.

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## killramos

Honda Fit.

Obviously

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## rage2

> If you are a car enthusiast it won't be a change in a good way. EVs will turn cars into a ubiquitous, but entirely background technology. 
> 
> The distinction between premium cars and non premium cars will get compressed. The differences between cars will be the coach building on top of largely identical electric skateboards.
> 
> When EVs eliminate drivetrain as a distinguishing feature we'll all have a grand old time comparing steering wheel shapes and paint colors.
> 
> We won't be having any interesting discussions about cars.



I agree to a degree, at least until we hit our energy storage breakthrough. The whole problem with why were stuck with the skateboard is because batteries and it’s the only way to effectively hide the weight. 

That said there are still a lot of interesting things outside the powertrain. There are massive differences between how Tesla and Porsche implemented suspension setups to manage the weight effectively.

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## shakalaka

> I love the Taycan, but ya, I’m in a different league than Jordan. Only thing we have in common is justifying the silly cost for a little bit faster. 130k is basically my limit on cars so the Taycan just became too rich for my blood. As much as my kids love the farting Tesla, I can not stand the interior. While I have no idea how the EV6 interior is going to look, I spent a bunch of time in the stinger and Telluride to get a sense of what the baseline looks like, and aside from some shoddy leather/stitching work on the telluride, the non leather interior looks pretty good. It’s no Lexus in attention to detail, or great use of plastics like on the base MBs, I’d say it’s comparable to VW or even base Audi.
> 
> As for charging, I’ve been looking at our usual BC routes for years now, all the way back when even Tesla’s can barely do our routes in winter. Charging speed still kinda sucks, only 200kw speeds between Canmore and Kamloops. Probably be better by the time the ev6 arrives at the rate it’s been improving. For us, there’s chargers that’ll get us everywhere we usually go on long trips, been solid for a year already.



Actually pretty aggressive deals on the 2020 4S. My Porsche contact said they didn't sell well at all so they were trying to aggressively move inventory. I came close but knowing me and knowing how much I love the roar of a big engine, I decided to go the GTS route. Hell, the GTS sounds sick as it is and I am already exploring options to make it out louder lol.

Like I said, I can see the value in EV's and of course the Taycan is super nice - but I feel if you are a true motorsports enthusiast, they will never replace a true sports car with 8, 10 or 12 cylinder options. Now if they just stop getting produced all together and all we are left with are EV's and Hybrid's, well then I guess we're fucked. Yes the speed appeals to me but only to an extent. All you get is speed with an EV but actual personality and the joy of driving is just not the same - at least for me.

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## rage2

> Like I said, I can see the value in EV's and of course the Taycan is super nice - but I feel if you are a true motorsports enthusiast, they will never replace a true sports car with 8, 10 or 12 cylinder options. Now if they just stop getting produce all together and all we are left are EV's and Hybrid's, well then I guess we're fucked. Yes the speed appeals to me but only to an extent. All you get is speed with an EV but actual personality and the joy of driving is just not the same - at least for me.



Why 8 cylinders? Go back far enough, and sports cars aren’t sports cars without a v12. End of the day, it’s all arbitrary. Back then my cars weren’t sports cars because they had an auto transmission. Today, manual barely exists outside a couple niche cars. 

Not defending the Kia, no clue how it’ll drive. Maybe it’ll be boring and digital once I drive it, like the GTR, bored quickly. To blindly paint a whole segment has always been funny, especially when there are cars in the segment that shines against its established peers. After 20 years of sporadically making oddball car choices, funny to see nothings changed with opinions haha. People just don’t like to embrace change.

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## spikerS

It's a good looking car for sure. $80k good looking? i dunno... Maybe when you factor in fuel savings it is worth it, but yikes, that's an expensive Kia!

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## Buster

> Why 8 cylinders? Go back far enough, and sports cars aren’t sports cars without a v12. End of the day, it’s all arbitrary. Back then my cars weren’t sports cars because they had an auto transmission. Today, manual barely exists outside a couple niche cars. 
> 
> Not defending the Kia, no clue how it’ll drive. Maybe it’ll be boring and digital once I drive it, like the GTR, bored quickly. To blindly paint a whole segment has always been funny, especially when there are cars in the segment that shines against its established peers. After 20 years of sporadically making oddball car choices, funny to see nothings changed with opinions haha. People just don’t like to embrace change.



12 cylinders is better than 8 cylinders is better than 6 cylinders.

Is certainly better than zero cylinders.

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## ExtraSlow

I think displacement is more important than cylinders. I miss my 460.

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## Xtrema

Also




> Kia announced today that it has obtained more than 33,000 prospects (including 7,300 reservations) across Europe, which account for 300% of the EV6 2021 European business plan.



https://insideevs.com/news/505278/ki...spects-europe/

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## Kg810

I might be in the minority here, but I hate the trend of these sloped trunks. Defeats the purpose of being an SUV and becomes basically a raised up sedan.

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## ExtraSlow

Yes, sedans became SUVs because of practicality, but those have those stupid sloped rears, which are impractical.

We are back to the liftback future.

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## rage2

My first car was a first generation Integra 5 door. Explains why I love the sloped roof.

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## ExtraSlow

Liftback is a cool form factor for a car. Just less practical than wagon or SUV or anything with a D pillar.

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## bjstare

> My first car was a first generation Integra 5 door. Explains why I love the sloped roof.



What an awesome first car.

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## Xtrema

Not a EV6 but Genesis's version, GV60.

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## pheoxs

Wtf are those mirror screens on the inside? That looks so clunky and awkward.

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## flipstah

I see lots of things failing in winter

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## bjstare

@rage2
 why’d you pass on this for the minivan? Just wanted more space?

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## rage2

> @rage2
>  why’d you pass on this for the minivan? Just wanted more space?



Couldn’t wait that long. Good decision too, 200 mile range for the GT is just useless. That said, you’ve reminded me to get my deposit back haha. Thanks.

Family loves van life now. We’ve got our name down for a Sienna Prime if Toyota decides to make it.

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## bjstare

Ya 200 mile range is pretty poor. Hm.

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## ExtraSlow

200 miles is like infinity kilometers, the way inflation is going.

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## heavyD

> I see lots of things failing in winter



Like what exactly?

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## Xtrema

> Like what exactly?



I think he refer to the side camera mirrors. I have yet to have a single camera fail on me due to temperature. Age and typical electrical gremlins, sure.

That said, anyone check their mirrors any more?

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## Misterman

> I think he refer to the side camera mirrors. I have yet to have a single camera fail on me due to temperature. Age and typical electrical gremlins, sure.
> 
> That said, anyone check their mirrors any more?



I was thinking more along the lines of LCD screens. They do really bad in -30 and below temps. 




Not much talk about how this concept went from 500hp fun vehicle, to basic soccer mom commuter for launch. I didn't even know about the supposed 500hp original concept, I got interested in these when I saw it was a Kia(expecting cheap purchase price). But the sub 500km range(which will be half in the winter) was a deal breaker for me. I like the idea of cutting out the $7000 a year gasoline cost I have for commuting, but there is no charge stations between Edmonton and Fort Mac, so I need to do a reliable 500km on single charge.

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## bjstare

It still has 500hp. 576 actually, and for a pretty reasonable price. It just has shit range.

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## Misterman

> It still has 500hp. 576 actually, and for a pretty reasonable price. It just has shit range.




Did they change it recently? This is certainly not in line with anything on Kia's website about it last summer when I was looking at them. Or maybe there is 2 versions, one with a lot less power? 

Range doesn't seem shitty really. Its in line with how shitty most other electric cars are.

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## rage2

> Did they change it recently? This is certainly not in line with anything on Kia's website about it last summer when I was looking at them. Or maybe there is 2 versions, one with a lot less power? 
> 
> Range doesn't seem shitty really. Its in line with how shitty most other electric cars are.



Last year's launch is the base model, and the GT Line model. This year it's the high performance GT model.

Pre launch 2 years ago, all they talked about was the 576hp GT model. That's when I put my deposit down.

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## gpomp

> Did they change it recently? This is certainly not in line with anything on Kia's website about it last summer when I was looking at them. Or maybe there is 2 versions, one with a lot less power? 
> 
> Range doesn't seem shitty really. Its in line with how shitty most other electric cars are.



From Kia website:

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## rage2

> From Kia website:



The GT isn’t in there yet. Range is officially 332km. Probably can’t make it to Edmonton without a recharge if there’s a headwind.

It’s basically a good city only car, and that’s it.

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## gpomp

> The GT isn’t in there yet. Range is officially 332km. Probably can’t make it to Edmonton without a recharge if there’s a headwind.
> 
> It’s basically a good city only car, and that’s it.



Why would you want to go to Edmonton?  :Confused:

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## rage2

> Why would you want to go to Edmonton?



Concerts and events, unfortunately lol. Add kids sports into the mix, I probably hit up Edmonton 6 or 7 times a year.

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## ExtraSlow

That's 5 times too many.

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## ThePenIsMightier

I was just there for NYE. It's so incredibly different. I was pulled from my igloo in the darkness (6 months of darkness "way" up there) and not only mugged, but also raped.
Only 87 octane available and way, _way_ more realtors everywhere. It was truly different and awful.

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## Xtrema

> The GT isnt in there yet. Range is officially 332km. Probably cant make it to Edmonton without a recharge if theres a headwind.
> 
> Its basically a good city only car, and thats it.



Add winter temp and keeping pace with everyone at 140kph, you won't even reach Red Deer.

So can you turn your reservation spot for a profit still, or just walk away?

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## jutes

Lol that range wouldn't even cover a round trip to a Rider game without sitting at a charging station. $60k for a city-only commuter? That's bananas.

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## heavyD

> I think he refer to the side camera mirrors. I have yet to have a single camera fail on me due to temperature. Age and typical electrical gremlins, sure.
> 
> That said, anyone check their mirrors any more?



This is my first winter with my Model 3 and it handled that cold snap like a champ outside of the reduced range which was expected.





> Lol that range wouldn't even cover a round trip to a Rider game without sitting at a charging station. $60k for a city-only commuter? That's bananas.



The thing is that EV's really are brilliant city commuter cars. You can drive to work, hit the gym after, and plug it in and forget it when you get home. You just get in and drive all the time with no sitting in a cold car idling it as they precondition for when you leave to and from work. No worry about ensuring oil temperatures are high enough for spirited driving, etc. That part of ownership has made a believer out of me. However I don't think I will even bother tempting fate and using this car for travelling. Weather conditions and higher speeds have such a negative effect on battery capacity that I simply don't want or need the stress of making it to the next charger and hoping there's not a big lineup. We are still in the early years of EV and it's just a matter of knowing what they do well and what they don't as they are not yet the total package.

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## jutes

Im ok with my few thousand dollar POS pathfinder for city use. I’ll never see any cost savings in my lifetime to offset an EV. If I could pick up an EV for $5000 then the conversation would be different.

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## jonni44

Honestly, at a 3k price point you are right, you'll never see cost savings. 

However, if you're looking at spending what cars/suvs with less than 100k actually cost these days I think there is some pretty significant savings. I went to a plug-in hybrid for my most recent car and would have spent the equivalent amount on an ICE car. The fuel savings between my past ICE and my plug-in hybrid is over $400/month. My electricity bill hasn't gone up a penny either since making the switch.

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## ThePenIsMightier

Electric cars have always been way more ideally suited for city use. It's also where the delta in fuel economy is the highest.
They are the Koodo Mobile of cars.

*or whichever the fuck cell company is the one that only works in major cities

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## bjstare

> Or maybe there is 2 versions, one with a lot less power?



*gasp* a car that has different trim levels with different powertrain options? Surely this isn't revolutionary news. I'm pretty sure this has been the approach for every car produced in our lifetimes.

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## rage2

> Add winter temp and keeping pace with everyone at 140kph, you won't even reach Red Deer.
> 
> So can you turn your reservation spot for a profit still, or just walk away?



I don’t care about profit not worth my time. If anyone still wants one, they can take it from me before I officially bow out and ask for a refund. 




> This is my first winter with my Model 3 and it handled that cold snap like a champ outside of the reduced range which was expected.
> 
> The thing is that EV's really are brilliant city commuter cars. You can drive to work, hit the gym after, and plug it in and forget it when you get home. You just get in and drive all the time with no sitting in a cold car idling it as they precondition for when you leave to and from work. No worry about ensuring oil temperatures are high enough for spirited driving, etc. That part of ownership has made a believer out of me. However I don't think I will even bother tempting fate and using this car for travelling. Weather conditions and higher speeds have such a negative effect on battery capacity that I simply don't want or need the stress of making it to the next charger and hoping there's not a big lineup. We are still in the early years of EV and it's just a matter of knowing what they do well and what they don't as they are not yet the total package.



Excellent summary. I really wish I had more garage space, definitely would’ve gotten the ev6 GT as a pure city DD. With only room for 2 cars, and routine split trips on the same weekend, the best we can muster is PHEV. We’re doing decent now with both cars being hybrids.

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## Dynasty 88

Have a Outlander PHEV coming. Wife will be the primary user, she wont ever need to put gas in it to get from work to home. Choice is limited for any plug in that seats 7. I know the Outlander 3rd row is tiny, but itll haul kids. Probably wouldve gone for a Pacifica Hybrid if it offered AWD, we really liked it. PHEV is the best of both worlds IMO.

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## Xtrema

> Have a Outlander PHEV coming. Wife will be the primary user, she won’t ever need to put gas in it to get from work to home. Choice is limited for any plug in that seats 7. I know the Outlander 3rd row is tiny, but it’ll haul kids. Probably would’ve gone for a Pacifica Hybrid if it offered AWD, we really liked it. PHEV is the best of both worlds IMO.



Even with heat pump, heard engine will fire whenever it's -5c out. So don't expect pure EV experience in winter.

Which dealer and how much over MSRP? Platinum want $72K.

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## rage2

> Have an Outlander PHEV coming. Wife will be the primary user, she won’t ever need to put gas in it to get from work to home. Choice is limited for any plug in that seats 7. I know the Outlander 3rd row is tiny, but it’ll haul kids. Probably would’ve gone for a Pacifica Hybrid if it offered AWD, we really liked it. PHEV is the best of both worlds IMO.



Find a Toyota dealer and put your name down for a Sienna Prime. It’s probably happening in the next couple of years as the Sienna platform is engineered to fit the PHEV drivetrain. The reviews for the RAV4 prime has been nothing but praise.

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## Misterman

> Last year's launch is the base model, and the GT Line model. This year it's the high performance GT model.
> 
> Pre launch 2 years ago, all they talked about was the 576hp GT model. That's when I put my deposit down.



That makes sense. I know there was no 500+hp option when I was looking. It'll be great when battery technology catches up to the EV industry so something like this 576hp Kia will actually seem like a reasonable purchase getting 500+km to a charge. Although for my current dadlife I'll be more interested in something that is 300hp and 1000km charge. 






> From Kia website:



Yeah that's about what I recall. So right in line with the industry. The scary thing is what does it get in the real world? Manufacturers essentially lie about fuel consumption numbers, as they are all based on perfect conditions that don't exist in real world. I imagine EV charge ranges are similar. 






> Honestly, at a 3k price point you are right, you'll never see cost savings. 
> 
> However, if you're looking at spending what cars/suvs with less than 100k actually cost these days I think there is some pretty significant savings. I went to a plug-in hybrid for my most recent car and would have spent the equivalent amount on an ICE car. The fuel savings between my past ICE and my plug-in hybrid is over $400/month. My electricity bill hasn't gone up a penny either since making the switch.



Once you factor a battery replacement in and the rapidly increasing cost on electricity, it might be a different equation. Be interesting to see where things go in the next 10 years. But even with the vague foresight, I'd probably get an EV myself if all I needed was a city commuter. 





> *gasp* a car that has different trim levels with different powertrain options? Surely this isn't revolutionary news. I'm pretty sure this has been the approach for every car produced in our lifetimes.



Thanks for the pedantic misplaced comment. Very helpful.

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