# Car Forums > Automotive News >  Canada bans ICE car sales by 2035

## rage2

https://driving.ca/column/motor-mout...ngines-by-2035

No actual plan on how to drive EV adoption yet, but expect incentives to get much bigger.

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## Mitsu3000gt

I was looking at Teslas, and unless I am mistaken (I hope I am), they don't give you the incentives on any EV's you'd actually want to buy, only the slow or entry level models. Does anyone know if that is the case?

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## killramos

No dead natives to see here… loooook shiny new electric cars!

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> I was looking at Teslas, and unless I am mistaken (I hope I am), they don't give you the incentives on any EV's you'd actually want to buy, only the slow or entry level models. Does anyone know if that is the case?



Actually if you an S or X they will charge you luxury tax instead lol

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## ThePenIsMightier

I smell Kyoto.

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## zipdoa

I wouldn't be surprised to see a cultural shift towards simulating activities we used to enjoy in real life in order to reduce emissions (ie: sim racing). I'm sad to see the end of the ICE, but if this summer is any indication, we (not just Canada, obv) need to change how we consume and interact with the environment. That being said, I'm not a scientist so maybe this record breaking heat is a normal cyclic pattern unrelated to the industrial revolution. 




> I was looking at Teslas, and unless I am mistaken (I hope I am), they don't give you the incentives on any EV's you'd actually want to buy, only the slow or entry level models. Does anyone know if that is the case?



Why would the gov't incentivize any of the performance tesla models? The base model provides all functions required of a commuter vehicle. Performance is a luxury - if you can afford $100k+ vehicles, then a $10k rebate isn't going to make or break your purchase decision. If the goal is mass adoption, catering towards a wealthy niche of enthusiasts doesn't seem like a logical pursuit. 

And perhaps a topic for another thread - are climate lockdowns an impending reality?

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## Xtrema

> I smell Kyoto.



You meant Paris. Kyoto smells fine. The Japanese are a clean bunch....

https://www.firstpost.com/tech/auto-...5-9758651.html

VW also say no ICE in Europe by 2030-35.

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## Mitsu3000gt

> Actually if you an S or X they will charge you luxury tax instead lol



Well that sucks. If their goal is to incentivize people to buy EVs that seems rather counterintuitive. I was just looking at the Model 3 and Y and as soon as you go beyond the most basic model the incentive seems to disappear.

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## Xtrema

> Well that sucks. If their goal is to incentivize people to buy EVs that seems rather counterintuitive. I was just looking at the Model 3 and Y and as soon as you go beyond the most basic model the incentive seems to disappear.



There is no incentive on Y. Only 3. That said, the cheapest AWD EV is ID.4 at $48K after incentive. At that price, it's definitely cheaper to operate than RAV4.

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## flipstah

ICE for Clunkers 2030?

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## Buster

lol, our gov't bureaucrats planning 15 years into the future.

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## Mitsu3000gt

> There is no incentive on Y. Only 3. That said, the cheapest AWD EV is ID.4 at $48K after incentive. At that price, it's definitely cheaper to operate than RAV4.



I like the looks of the ID4 but it seems like a pretty terrible vehicle from what I've read about it so far. Reviews have been rather negative. The bar is so high with Tesla that it doesn't help the comparisons though. The downside with Tesla is the cheapest variant worth buying looks to be around $70K with no incentives.

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## lilmira

government planning? the utopia will unfold right in front of your eyes on its own.

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## ExtraSlow

> lol, our gov't bureaucrats planning 15 years into the future.



Agree. Even after Trudeau gets the next majority government, and another one after that, there's a lot of time for this to be bent, twisted, changed or cancelled. This is not going to be anything like the initial press release.

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## Xtrema

> I like the looks of the ID4 but it seems like a pretty terrible vehicle from what I've read about it so far. Reviews have been rather negative. The bar is so high with Tesla that it doesn't help the comparisons though. The downside with Tesla is the cheapest variant worth buying looks to be around $70K with no incentives.



v1 with shitty software, awful touch control and cost cutting material throughout. But the pricing is decent in the world of EV and range is decent. For that price, you ain't getting AWD with decent options. And if you want a FWD base model, it's only $40K after incentive.

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## Tik-Tok

> Agree. Even after Trudeau gets the next majority government, and another one after that, there's a lot of time for this to be bent, twisted, changed or cancelled. This is not going to be anything like the initial press release.



It'll still happen, but zero infrastructure will be built to support it, and we'll have brown outs and alternating household charging days .

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## killramos

Didn’t California just issue a notice for people to not charge their EV’s because they ran out of juice?

Welcome to the future everyone. Except for us it will be “ please don’t use your EV’s or people won’t be able to heat their homes “

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## Disoblige

> Didnt California just issue a notice for people to not charge their EVs because they ran out of juice?
> 
> Welcome to the future everyone. Except for us it will be  please dont use your EVs or people wont be able to heat their homes 



All good. In a couple decades when snowstorms and heat waves hit, we'll all be charging our EVs and heat our homes with a portable generator that we fill with gas.

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## vengie

> Didn’t California just issue a notice for people to not charge their EV’s because they ran out of juice?
> 
> Welcome to the future everyone. Except for us it will be “ please don’t use your EV’s or people won’t be able to heat their homes “



Simple solution. Burn more Nat Gas.

Duh.

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## killramos

End of the day, the only people the Liberals are really hurting are poor people.

Energy prices will skyrocket. Cars will be priced out of affordability, and those you can afford are going to redefine the term econobox. Transit will become overloaded and underfunded to compensate. Healthy fresh food will be out of reach for most. The knock on effects will be crippling and drive millions into poverty.

But hey, there will be less CO2 in the atmosphere. People are totally going to notice that effect on every day life while they starve if they are working at all.

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## Xtrema

> Cars will be priced out of affordability, and those you can afford are going to redefine the term econobox. Transit will become overloaded and underfunded to compensate.



Will drive an AMI before I get back into transit.

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## dirtsniffer

good news is we can stop cutting down trees and start harvesting the money that grows on them

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## JustinL

> I was looking at Teslas, and unless I am mistaken (I hope I am), they don't give you the incentives on any EV's you'd actually want to buy, only the slow or entry level models. Does anyone know if that is the case?



The SR+ is the only one that gets an incentive. I bought one expecting it to be slow, but was pleasantly surprised by how quick it is at legal speeds. Try one out some time before eliminating them from your search. The depreciation on a Model 3 is very low, so you could always flip it in a year if you don't like it.

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## firebane

Boy Canada sure is funny if they think this will happen or even be good for the general population.

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## ThePenIsMightier

> good news is we can stop cutting down trees and start harvesting the money that grows on them



We need to cut down trees because only paper bags are #Eco to use at the grocery store.

Pfffttt! I was at the grocery store the other day and some _boomer_ tried to tell me that stores used to use paper bags and stopped in favour of plastic bags because cutting trees down was bad.
What a stupid boomer. I hate boomers. I wish they all got 'Rona and died.

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## Mitsu3000gt

> The SR+ is the only one that gets an incentive. I bought one expecting it to be slow, but was pleasantly surprised by how quick it is at legal speeds. Try one out some time before eliminating them from your search. The depreciation on a Model 3 is very low, so you could always flip it in a year if you don't like it.



I was wondering about their resale as well, so that's good to know. I would have thought due to the nature of battery degradation and the presumably enormous cost of replacement, that would mean high depreciation. I also don't know if they are like other batteries where if people abuse them, they can degrade very quickly. Obviously they are going to be better than a standard lithium battery but I would be curious to know how much the owner can influence battery health.

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## Xtrema

> It'll still happen, but zero infrastructure will be built to support it, and we'll have brown outs and alternating household charging days .



Well if 2M EVs in AB all need 7kw to charge, that adds 14,000MW of demand to the grid. Our winter peak has been <12,000MW. If you are telling we need to double our generation in a decade or so, along with increasing carbon tax. It doesn't take a genius to figure out where the electricity prices are going to be and why the Danish is dropping 1/2 a bil into the Vulcan solar farm.

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## rage2

> The SR+ is the only one that gets an incentive. I bought one expecting it to be slow, but was pleasantly surprised by how quick it is at legal speeds. Try one out some time before eliminating them from your search. The depreciation on a Model 3 is very low, so you could always flip it in a year if you don't like it.



All the new EVs feel fast. I've driven a Niro, Mach-E, base models, and they all feel really peppy.




> I was wondering about their resale as well, so that's good to know. I would have thought due to the nature of battery degradation and the presumably enormous cost of replacement, that would mean high depreciation. I also don't know if they are like other batteries where if people abuse them, they can degrade very quickly. Obviously they are going to be better than a standard lithium battery but I would be curious to know how much the owner can influence battery health.



Tesla's are the only EVs that have such low depreciation. I haven't seen it from other brands yet. Probably a combination of supply/demand, continual increase in price, and Elon Musk haha.

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## JustinL

> Tesla's are the only EVs that have such low depreciation. I haven't seen it from other brands yet. Probably a combination of supply/demand, continual increase in price, and Elon Musk haha.



Never bet against a cult company!
If getting attention is important to you, the Model 3 gets a lot of attention and thumbs up.

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## killramos

Making a declaration that vehicles are banned in 2035 is political genius. Get to claim all the woke points, but almost certainly have no chance of still being in government by then and responsible for the fallout.

They also didn’t pass any legislation on this. Just made a sweeping declaration, so the whole thing hold no water.

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## dirtsniffer

Guess the campaign promises are getting underway

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## adam c

Welcome the multi day road trips to go anywhere

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## Tik-Tok

> Welcome the multi day road trips to go anywhere



Current RV trailers will become obsolete, and you'll have to buy ones with massive battery banks built into the structure.

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## killramos

Just more evidence proving my theory that the EV market is super hot right now

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## finboy

Good thing I only drive cars that are around 15 years old, by the time this impacts me I’ll just make sure I have a farm tank on my property so I can keep enjoying fun cars (specifically noisy ones with manual transmissions)

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## ThePenIsMightier

Will we run the flags at quarter mast to recognize the atrocities against the automotive workers in Eastern Canada?

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## adam c

> Current RV trailers will become obsolete, and you'll have to buy ones with massive battery banks built into the structure.



With current EVs a normal car would take about 3 days just to drive to Vancouver, then 3 days back, who the hell wants to do that

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## ThePenIsMightier

> With current EVs a normal car would take about 3 days just to drive to Vancouver, then 3 days back, who the hell wants to do that



Everyone. Pfffttt! Thanks, Boomer.
How does my 1920's hat and beard wax look while I'm atop this penny farthing?

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## ExtraSlow

Agree, who wants to go to Vancouver? Gross.

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## killramos

> With current EVs a normal car would take about 3 days just to drive to Vancouver, then 3 days back, who the hell wants to do that



What reason do we have to drive that far.

Stay safe stay home.

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## finboy

> With current EVs a normal car would take about 3 days just to drive to Vancouver, then 3 days back, who the hell wants to do that



Duh, technology on batteries will obviously rapidly accelerate beyond current chemistry knowledge, while electrical grids magically triple in capacity in the next 14 years to solve for this - Reddit Canada

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## killramos

And we will make the rich pay for it

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## ThePenIsMightier

> Duh, technology on batteries will obviously rapidly accelerate beyond current chemistry knowledge, while electrical grids magically triple in capacity in the next 14 years to solve for this - Reddit Canada



Wins internet on Canada Day Eve Eve!

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> And we will make the rich pay for it



That's right! All those fat cats with combined family incomes over $75k need to pay their share!!!
Their uppance hath come!

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## arcticcat522

Everyone is thinking too small. You will own nothing and be happy. Hyper loops everywhere!!!

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## jwslam

> if this summer is any indication, we (not just Canada, obv) need to change how we consume and interact with the environment. That being said, I'm not a scientist so maybe this record breaking heat is a normal cyclic pattern unrelated to the industrial revolution.



It's obvious that after a year of being stuck inside, now we're being told to stay inside... God is crazy y'all.

But really why is there nobody that's done math on how covid reduced traffic, but that same amount or even more pollution was caused by takeout packaging / other increased disposables.

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## littledan

I am so sick of this virtue signalling garbage. The current trudeau govt is out of control. Let's ban ice engines with no forethought to the actual logistics involved in that decision. Not everyone lives in downtown toronto. Trudeau needs to go.

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## zipdoa

(Let’s remember - new ICE sales are banned @ 2035, presumably driving existing ICE’s is no issue)

I wonder how this will affect the price of vehicles? With the increasing availability of parts via 3D printing, it stands to reason that enthusiasts will be able to own their ICE vehicles indefinitely.

However, I would be bias towards Diesel engines, as producing your own fuel will be a realistic proposition. Is anyone (aside Porsche) developing a Bio-Gasoline? I’m not a chemist, can anyone chime in on why diesel is relatively easy to produce at home? Never heard of anyone doing this with gas.

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## killramos

The goal is to make everything more expensive. And make people increasingly more reliant on government.

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## finboy

> (Let’s remember - new ICE sales are banned @ 2035, presumably driving existing ICE’s is no issue)
> 
> I wonder how this will affect the price of vehicles? With the increasing availability of parts via 3D printing, it stands to reason that enthusiasts will be able to own their ICE vehicles indefinitely.
> 
> However, I would be bias towards Diesel engines, as producing your own fuel will be a realistic proposition. Is anyone (aside Porsche) developing a Bio-Gasoline? I’m not a chemist, can anyone chime in on why diesel is relatively easy to produce at home? Never heard of anyone doing this with gas.



I still expect you will be able to buy gas like you buy race fuel now, it will be expensive but available for enthusiasts. Regulation virtue signalling to get votes from normies is my biggest worry. My concern is that areas in Europe are banning ice cars period. I could see an annoying a druh 2.0 type getting on a city council, adjusting their stupid fucking glasses and says “calgary needs to be more forward thinking like Europe! No ICE cars in 30km/h zones”

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## Xtrema

> Current RV trailers will become obsolete, and you'll have to buy ones with massive battery banks built into the structure.



Current RV trailers will be the new collectible as the new inferior ones laden with battery are less cable/more hassle.

Read the fine print. This is ICE ban on cars and light trucks. So by 2030, everyone is driving a F250 and F350. Mission accomplished.

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## finboy

> Current RV trailers will be the new collectible as the new inferior ones laden with battery are less cable/more hassle.
> 
> Read the fine print. This is ICE ban on cars and light trucks. So by 2030, everyone is driving a F250 and F350. Mission accomplished.



Super-duties for all, and a double-cricket sub in every pot

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## Inzane

Everyone buy brand new ICE cars in 2034, then dont buy any EVs for the next 5+ years after the ban!

Then what.  :Big Grin:

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## vengie

> Everyone buy brand new ICE cars in 2034, then don’t buy any EVs for the next 5+ years after the ban!
> 
> Then what….



Someone doesn't care about polar bears....

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## davidI

> lol, our gov't bureaucrats planning 15 years into the future.






> It'll still happen, but zero infrastructure will be built to support it, and we'll have brown outs and alternating household charging days .



Exactly this. If they were planning 15 years into the future they would have started building-out better electrical grids and mandating charging points for all infrastructure projects as stimulus rather than all of the pointless spending they've made over the last decade.

It will be amazing when there are 23 million electric cars on the road fighting over 1 million charging plugs every night.

I guess that's why their first move was to ban guns...

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## killramos

I can’t wait until people figure out leaving an EV parked on the road 24/7 isn’t particularly conducive to keeping it charged.

Imagine R2 communities with 2-3 high gauge charging cables slinked across the sidewalk every duplex.

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## GT.....O?

From the article...."Alghabra says that more than $600 million has been already spent to get 90,000 Canadians into zero-emissions vehicles. *For a little context, the Canadian market for cars and light duty trucks is somewhere around 1.8 million units*."
Edit: 1.8 million units per year?? maybe??


Ummmm....... what? I must be missing something here

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## killramos

Net zero emissions vehicles? Do these people know where our electricity comes from?

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## ThePenIsMightier

> Net zero emissions vehicles? Do these people know where our electricity comes from?



Bro - it comes from holes in the wall, Idiot!
Stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution, Maaan!

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## jutes

> Net zero emissions vehicles? Do these people know where our electricity comes from?



Dams and solar power duh.

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## Mitsu3000gt

Isn't most of AB at least dual-gen now or are we still on a lot of coal? With $4.00/GJ nat gas though they are probably burning coal anyway haha.

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## killramos

Roof solar panels have got to be like 90% of Albertas generation by now right?

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## ZenOps

Time to build a wind powered propeller car that goes faster than the wind behind it.

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## ExtraSlow

143% last I checked.

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## Tik-Tok

You guys are forgetting all the wind farms. There's so much hot air blowing in from Vancouver, we can generate infinite energy. I'm amazed Ontario hasn't harnessed all of it coming from Ottawa too.

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## littledan

If we could just find a way to harness all of the power from turdopes bindy dancing we could power a fleet of nuclear submarines

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## davidI

Good thing we have the infrastructure in place for existing EV already  :ROFL!: 

https://thedriven.io/2021/06/30/tesl...-temperatures/

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## ZenOps

I've got a suggestion for Elon. Put solar panels along that waiting line to get to the charge stations in case of overflow. Then the cars wont be roasting while waiting, and they might be able to trickle charge an extra slot on these crazy sunny hot days.

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## mr2mike

> Net zero emissions vehicles? Do these people know where our electricity comes from?



I think this will drop the price of gasoline and ICE vehicles will become highly coveted causing higher car prices. 
The current EnMax infrastructure barely can hold up everyone installing AC. Can't imagine everyone charging cars @ 6pm.

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## davidI

> I think this will drop the price of gasoline and ICE vehicles will become highly coveted causing higher car prices. 
> The current EnMax infrastructure barely can hold up everyone installing AC. Can't imagine everyone charging cars @ 6pm.



Gasoline prices going down? Don't worry, there's a TAX for that!

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## jwslam

> I've got a suggestion for Elon. Put solar panels along that waiting line to get to the charge stations in case of overflow. Then the cars wont be roasting while waiting, and they might be able to trickle charge an extra slot on these crazy sunny hot days.



Better idea: Build the solar charging into the car like Hyundai Sonata

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## mr2mike

> Gasoline prices going down? Don't worry, there's a TAX for that!



True. Tax the gas to hand subsidies to the EV's.
Then when most have EV's, tax increases on the electrical bills.

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## Maxt

> Better idea: Build the solar charging into the car like Hyundai Sonata



 I wonder what the hail coverage cost will be like on that car?

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## mr2mike

I wish people were told honestly why Vancouver gas prices are higher than in Hope BC. Its not price spikes. It's the added taxes that Metro Vancouver has on gasoline vs rest of BC.

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...-c-experts-say

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## killramos

Everyone knows is so the Alberta oil companies can make an extra buck or two

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## npham

It will be interesting to see where governments will get their money to maintain roads and highways when ICE users are not enough to keep up with routine maintenance. There should be a tax per charging hour to offset the wear and tear EV's have on the existing infrastructure.

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## killramos

Shhhh driving an EV is a holy Endeavor.

Government would NEVER see an opportunity to tax it

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## Buster

> It will be interesting to see where governments will get their money to maintain roads and highways when ICE users are not enough to keep up with routine maintenance. There should be a tax per charging hour to offset the wear and tear EV's have on the existing infrastructure.



There should be a tax on Teslas for making me have to look at their horrible "design".

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## mr2mike

> It will be interesting to see where governments will get their money to maintain roads and highways when ICE users are not enough to keep up with routine maintenance. There should be a tax per charging hour to offset the wear and tear EV's have on the existing infrastructure.



It'll probably come through EnMax fees in Alberta and we will all have the satisfaction of "doing good for climate change".

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## killramos

> There should be a tax on Teslas for making me have to look at their horrible "design".



I’ve never liked the sound of a tax better.

Can we also tax the new M4?

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## ThePenIsMightier

> Shhhh driving an EV is a holy Endeavor.
> 
> Government would NEVER see an opportunity to tax it



Until they do. This is the Golden Age of EV's. Monthly fees from the manufacturers will come. Unable to charge for free at work will come. Taxes will come. Peak time usage pricing explosions will come.
It's all downhill from here, except putting the brakes on isn't going to regenerate shit.

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## killramos

Work from home is so 2020.

I want to be able to work from my Tesla, so I can work at work, work at home, and work while I commute.

This is the way.

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## ZenOps

The main thing I'm looking at are prices and availability for ICE replacement parts. Its tough enough to get components to make a new ICE car considering the thousands of specialized parts and fluids that it needs.

Will this create a mini-boom for ICE repair people as they can basically charge whatever they want for the one component that a customer needs, or will the consumer simply throw up their hands and chuck the ICE engine in the dustbin of history. I mean, its like "gold rush" all over again, where if you want an o-ring shipped to alaska, its going to cost you $300.

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## mr2mike

Answer: They'll make it tough on ICE vehicle owners.
Economics will then do the opposite. Taxes then imposed to control it. 

I see a Swiss vote on climate change basically went unpublished in Canada. 51% votes against climate action due to raising costs for all. 

*Swiss voters look to reject law to help cut carbon emissions*
https://financialpost.com/pmn/busine...rbon-emissions


Meanwhile in Canada:
_The federal government also has a full catalogue of regulations and subsidies, each with its own price tag. 
These include clean fuel standards, electric-vehicle subsidies, carbon capture and storage tax credits, corporate tax rate reductions for zero-emission technologies, building retrofit subsidies, and so on. 
Budget 2021 alone lists over 35 measures costing $8.75 billion over the next five years. 
But those 35 measures are just the tip of a massive iceberg. 
Every provincial and municipal government has its own regulations and is adding to them almost constantly. 
Worldwide, the energy transition will cost trillions of dollars – perhaps as much as five per cent of global GDP, according to the International Renewable Energy Agency. 
Investors in new green technologies are not the only ones licking their chops. 
So is the financial sector, which will benefit immensely from funding new infrastructure.

Someone will have to pick up the tab for all this, either with higher prices or new taxes. 
Giant food companies recently committed to various environmentally friendly policies with the expectation that costs can be shifted forward to consumers through higher prices. 
Regulations such as the clean fuel standard will be costly to administer, resulting in higher energy costs._ 
From this article: https://financialpost.com/opinion/ja...te-policy-cost

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## davidI

I'm just happy that environmentally-friendly strip mining will replace all of those nasty oil wells.

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## mr2mike

Haha yeah!
No one talks about the copper open pit mine in Montana.

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## killramos

Everyone knows carbon dioxide is the only dangerous pollutant.

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## ThePenIsMightier

> Everyone knows carbon dioxide is the only dangerous pollutant.



It's toxic, you know!

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## mr2mike

Even France just voted down enacting Climate change into their constitution as it may hinder French business.

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## ZenOps

That is assuming everyone wants an electric car similar to a gas vehicle.

I mean realistically, if you want a 30 pound vehicle to move a 200 pound human 10 miles at 15.5 mph using 1/4 KW electricity (roughly two cents): Lime and Bird have already proven its possible.

Hongguang mini EV might become more popular. It might even be slightly too big.

Is it really sustainable to go to the gas station to buy $100 worth of gas to go to home depot to buy two sheets of plywood at $100 apiece? Consumption for the sake of consumption may have been good for Buzz in 1960, but even he is realizing now that it may have been just a little bit too expensive.

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## ExtraSlow

I will take a chiangli kthxbye.

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## AndyL

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...nd-territories

has this been posted yet? Apparently EV users dislike victoria's (australia) plan to check odometers and charge road taxes. 

what a surprise  :Smilie:

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## ZenOps

If you are talking purely from a chemical standpoint: Carbon is used at a rate of 43 Billion tons per year, of which approximately 45 Billion tons is produced.

About 96% of production is immediately consumed for use, and maybe 2% is put aside as a buffer in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve or piled up as low grade lignite.

Metals in a battery can be recycled by simply throwing it in a hot furnace, but carbon released by an ICE engine is non-recoverable. 43 Billion tons per year converted from liquid and rock into the atmosphere without some sort of side effect is a tough sell.

A million tons seems small by comparison. A moon rocket uses 20 tons per second.

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## ZenOps

As for efficiency: 96% for electric to 21% combustion is a good selling point.

But what is even crazier is that even on a $300 30-pound scooter you can put in electronic regenerative braking for pennies. Recovering half of your energy instead of losing it all to the brake pads as friction simply puts electric head and shoulders above combustion.

If they can figure how to get even more efficiency out of regenerative braking, simply going downhill might be enough to put an extra hundred miles on an electric car.

As with HDTV's, electronics have the weird way of getting better, faster and bigger for less expensive year on year.

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## Xtrema

Birth country of Paris Climate Agreements say they may not be banning ICE by 2035

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/07/13/...mbustion-2035/

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## msommers

> I'm just happy that environmentally-friendly strip mining will replace all of those nasty oil wells.



"Everyone knows that mining is more environmentally friendly than drilling for hydrocarbons." -Everyone from BC, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec.

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## ZenOps

And just imagine, half of that complexity and 1,000 of those parts was probably to improve rotational efficiency from 20% to 20.5%.

Electric motor? Properly magnetically suspended on a solid metal core? 50 years without a drop of oil needed.

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## ZenOps

This does make me wonder how much of an aftermarket there is for simply gutting combustion engines.

Say you have a Bugatti, with perfectly maintained tires and bodywork, but the engine has been unrepairable for years because of being unable to troubleshoot, and then the inevitable decay and then availability of parts, which makes it near impossible to get running again. How much flak in the greater car enthusiast community would there be if they simply cut out the engine and put in a 80 hp electric? I can imagine the shock value would be extreme.

https://www.secretentourage.com/life...-of-ownership/

"In conclusion, the true cost of ownership of the Bugatti Veyron is almost the same price as buying and throwing away one used F430 Spyder each year you own it"

There would have to be safety checks all over the place, because most "ordinary" combustion cars would not be able to handle the torque of a cheap electric.

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## suntan

> "Everyone knows that mining is more environmentally friendly than drilling for hydrocarbons." -Everyone from BC, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec.



People really don't understand how metals are extracted. Esp. for anything non-magnetic it's an environmental travesty.

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## Disoblige

> People really don't understand how metals are extracted. Esp. for anything non-magnetic it's an environmental travesty.



We aren't nipping this at the bud enough. Remove the problem, Earth is saved.

_*snap*_

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## killramos

> We aren't nipping this at the bud enough. Remove the problem, Earth is saved.
> 
> _*snap*_

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## mr2mike

> People really don't understand how metals are extracted. Esp. for anything non-magnetic it's an environmental travesty.



The simpletons do. Not in my backyard. No problem. I gots a new Tesla discounted with government subsidies.

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## ShermanEF9

Everything is just a shittier version of a train anyways.

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## heavyD

> The simpletons do. Not in my backyard. No problem. I gots a new Tesla discounted with government subsidies.



The days of federal subsidies on a Tesla in Canada are pretty well over.

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## mr2mike

> The days of federal subsidies on a Tesla in Canada are pretty well over.



https://electricvehicles.bchydro.com...centives-in-BC

I guess depending on the price but they get 7 seaters and still qualify.

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## Yolobimmer

Someone check my math, but this seems a pipe dream.

20 million cars? 127,000 tons of luthium? Isn't that just 13 pounds per car, when there's probably 200 pounds per car?

Just one thing I checked.

I like EVs like everyone else, but 2035 is an insane target.

- - - Updated - - -




> I'm just happy that environmentally-friendly strip mining will replace all of those nasty oil wells.
> 
> Attachment 100443



Meant to quote this chart.

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## mr2mike

> The days of federal subsidies on a Tesla in Canada are pretty well over.



Not anymore...
The plan includes $9 billion for climate action grants and loans and $1.7 billion for electric vehicle rebates.

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## AndyL

nah, you're not reducing population by 70% because they froze that winter. Also how you fix affordable housing crisis and healthcare. Depopulate.

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## bjstare

I probably mentioned this before, or someone else has, but Ill ask again wtf are they planning to do about infrastructure? Our power grid is going to be so fucked with a step change in EV adoption. And the cost to remediate is astronomical.

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## ThePenIsMightier

> I probably mentioned this before, or someone else has, but Ill ask again wtf are they planning to do about infrastructure? Our power grid is going to be so fucked with a step change in EV adoption. And the cost to remediate is astronomical.



The plan is to shout at you that you're a "cLiMaTe ChAnGe DeNiEr" and then compare you to Hitler until the brownouts... Happen...

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## ExtraSlow

There's two possibilities:
1) energy shortages (brownouts, blackouts and more) are part of the plan
2) there is no plan

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## bjstare

> There's two possibilities:
> 1) energy shortages (brownouts, blackouts and more) are part of the plan
> 2) there is no plan



There's only one possibility. 2), resulting in 1)

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## ExtraSlow

Energy poverty resulting in death and suffering is going to be a big theme worldwide for the next ten years at least. 250 people died from the 2021 Texas blackouts. I think Canada can beat that when our grid fails in a cold snap.

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## ThePenIsMightier

> Energy poverty resulting in death and suffering is going to be a big theme worldwide for the next ten years at least. 250 people died from the 2021 Texas blackouts. I think Canada can beat that when our grid fails in a cold snap.



There will be burning-barrels in the bread lines, so we should be fine.

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## rage2

> There's two possibilities:
> 1) energy shortages (brownouts, blackouts and more) are part of the plan
> 2) there is no plan



I think you guys are blowing this out of proportion. California leads the way in EV adoption and hasn’t suffered from these problems any more than pre EV with their shitty grid. Yes they still have issues during heat waves, but that’s during peak evening hours. EVs charge off peak at home mostly, and their system is designed to encourage that by having lower rates off peak. 

Street parking for EVs, that’s a real problem. Don’t think electric grid is tho here.

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## killramos

Street parking. And apartment buildings.

Most condos have no ability to handle EVs on their existing electrical infrastructure, let alone allocate charging costs to the owners.

Its already causing fights in BC with strata boards.

Oh yea, and most peoples service is woefully inadequate to handle serious charging of a garage full of EVs at home.

100A to charge a lightning properly, how many F150s are sold a year again?

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## rage2

> Street parking. And apartment buildings.
> 
> Most condos have no ability to handle EV’s on their existing electrical infrastructure, let alone allocate charging costs to the owners.
> 
> It’s already causing fights in BC with strata boards.
> 
> Oh yea, and most people’s service is woefully inadequate to handle serious charging of a garage full of EV’s at home.
> 
> 100A to charge a lightning properly, how many F150’s are sold a year again?



Yea, should’ve mentioned condos too. 

Lightning doesn’t need 100A for home charging. 48 amp is good enough for overnight.

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## Tik-Tok

> Oh yea, and most people’s service is woefully inadequate to handle serious charging of a garage full of EV’s at home.



There are probably very few households where both people drive 400+ kms per day, so you don't need the garage to charge both vehicles the same night. Even if you do need it, you can program the charging so they both aren't going at the same time.

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## danno

Terrible time to own a condo then, just wait for the electrical upgrade bill 20k per unit. Haha. 

I’m still excited to get a ev but the ones I want I have to wait for, so I’ll sit on the side lines till they are readily available.

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## ExtraSlow

Home charging at even 30 amps is probably sufficient.

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## Tik-Tok

> Home charging at even 30 amps is probably sufficient.



Most people could charge at 110v every other night for their daily commuting needs. 10h of charge for every 100kms.

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## killramos

> There are probably very few households where both people drive 400+ kms per day, so you don't need the garage to charge both vehicles the same night. Even if you do need it, you can program the charging so they both aren't going at the same time.



The airdrie people are feeling sheepish…

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## Tik-Tok

> The airdrie people are feeling sheepish…



They can start ride-sharing. Their spouses already do on Saturday nights.

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## killramos

Soooo

Transit for the unwashed masses?

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## ExtraSlow

> Soooo
> 
> Transit for the unwashed masses?



You are joking, but if anyone is serious about emissions reductions, we'd need to get to a point where at least 50% of trips within a city are made by transit. Maybe more than 50%. 
Don't see a pathway to that however. Just like I don't see a pathway to any of this bullshit.

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## mr2mike

> There's two possibilities:
> 1) energy shortages (brownouts, blackouts and more) are part of the plan
> 2) there is no plan



Sounds very racist.
I think Liberals need to hire more bureaucrats to determine how to define this in 2022.
Not withstanding, consultation amongst any group that would also like to get in the way and defend their small secular, self-defined group for the greater good.


Edit: I have solved the problem.
Power is shutdown across the country from 8pm-8am. This eliminates any sort of non-inclusion policies as everyone gets the taps turned off.
But let's first decide on which time zone is heading these times.

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## ExtraSlow

Well we know disproportionately that the people who died in the Texas blackouts were lower income people of color. Turns out energy shortages are bad for equality.

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## Tik-Tok

> Turns out energy shortages are bad for equality.



If there's less poor people around, doesn't that make the rest of us all slightly more equal?

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## ExtraSlow

> If there's less poor people around, doesn't that make the rest of us all slightly more equal?



Sounds like the theory of "diversifying our economy" by shrinking the largest contributors.

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## vengie

> If there's less poor people around, doesn't that make the rest of us all slightly more equal?



But if all the poor people died off... Wouldn't that make most of us the new poor people and next to die?!

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## heavyD

> Yea, should’ve mentioned condos too. 
> 
> Lightning doesn’t need 100A for home charging. 48 amp is good enough for overnight.



How many houses have panel capacity to add a 240V 60A circuit though?

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## killramos

> You are joking, but if anyone is serious about emissions reductions, we'd need to get to a point where at least 50% of trips within a city are made by transit. Maybe more than 50%. 
> Don't see a pathway to that however. Just like I don't see a pathway to any of this bullshit.



I’m not joking. I am just cutting through the bullshit for what these Liberal policies actually mean for a large portion of the population.

Making energy use unaffordable is the only way we meet our targets, and guess what that isn’t going to come at the expense of the wealthiest citizens quality of life.

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## Disoblige

> You are joking, but if anyone is serious about emissions reductions, we'd need to get to a point where at least 50% of trips within a city are made by transit. Maybe more than 50%. 
> Don't see a pathway to that however. Just like I don't see a pathway to any of this bullshit.



well, make it easy for us to use transit and we'll use it. an ideal world would be all bike lanes and transit. and a race track in every quad of the city. lol!

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## zechs

I thought I read a thread somewhere on this forum that had calculations done assuming a certain amount of cars were electrified immediately, and the grid could not handle the overnight charging requirements.

Can't seem to find it, figure it must have been in a Tesla or electric car thread

And electricity useage peaked this winter when we had the -40 stretch. Peaked, as in basically no more capacity. So adding any electric cars on top of that is one too many at this time.

Is it manageable? Maybe. I don't think its dire, but I also don't think we can feasibly be switched to all electric by 2035.

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## mr2mike

I think this might be the thread?
https://forums.beyond.ca/threads/415...infrastructure

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## ZenOps

Breakthrough technology in electric scooters

https://gotrax.com/products/gmax-pro...xe-v7-edition?

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## mr2mike

> Breakthrough technology in electric scooters
> 
> https://gotrax.com/products/gmax-pro...xe-v7-edition?



 
@ExtraSlow

He was looking for a commuter that make a statement of, "I'm important and don't talk to me unless I speak first".

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## Darkane

Interesting thread. Interesting times. 

I will say from reading (trying to get an EV currently) that charging isn’t that bad, needs to be clarified. 

I’ll use a bolt for example:

110v 15amp ~6km/hr charge speed 
240v (40amp breaker) draw at 32 amps ~40km/hr
Fast charger 100km/30 min I think *need to confirm here. 

What I don’t find often is people using 20amp 110v from the kitchen for example. Could use an extension cord to potentially do 10km/hr. 

The new lightning will be able to do high speed charge in a house with a dedicated 80amp max pull. Won’t be happening. 

There is no way we will be ready for this stuff in 10 years. And then there’s the states who greatly revamped the mpg standard yesterday, good luck achieving that.

Edited for 32amp charge rate.

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## rage2

I don’t think you want to do high speed charge at home. There are very few use cases where you need that regularly.

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## killramos

Depends. If we put in smart meters like everyone seems to want your window to charge economically might be rather small.

And if you want that 2 way charging home power shit that means you need some serious ampage to and from the cars to work.

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## Buster

We are creating pain and suffering so we can (maybe) prevent climate change from causing... pain and suffering.

Makes sense you kerts.

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## Darkane

> We are creating pain and suffering so we can (maybe) prevent climate change from causing... pain and suffering.
> 
> Makes sense you kerts.



It doesn’t matter at all. Reading this puts it into real perspective. 

I want to save money because I love it. I know there isn’t real effective means until we have this shit under control. People that think there a chance without China and Asia actually giving a shit is hilarious. 

https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...it-2021-10-29/

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## littledan

Damn asians. First covid, now burning coal. Whats next, mandatory abacus'.

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## Buster

> Damn asians. First covid, now burning coal. Whats next, mandatory abacus'.



non-phonetic written languages and lots of 8's

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## JRSC00LUDE

> But if all the poor people died off... Wouldn't that make most of us the new poor people and next to die?!



Yes

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## davidI

> Canada's federal budget will include an investment of at least C$2 billion ($1.6 billion) for a strategy to accelerate the production and processing of critical minerals needed for the electric vehicle (EV) battery supply chain, two senior government sources said.
> 
> ...
> 
> "Canada has an abundance of valuable critical mineral deposits, and with the right investments, this sector can create thousands of new good jobs, grow our economy, and make Canada a vital part of the growing global critical minerals industry," said Adrienne Vaupshas, press secretary for Freeland.



Interesting. Not a single mention of the environment in this article.

I'm sure the greenwashed libtards will be all over how great of an idea it is for the Liberals to subsidize EV cars and mining in Canada. The amount of doublethink in Canada (and a lot of the Western world) these days is truly shocking.

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## heavyD

> Interesting. Not a single mention of the environment in this article.
> 
> I'm sure the greenwashed libtards will be all over how great of an idea it is for the Liberals to subsidize EV cars and mining in Canada. The amount of doublethink in Canada (and a lot of the Western world) these days is truly shocking.



I think it's one of those things where today's politicians, rich and famous are in denial and so hell bent on shutting down O&G that they are fully willing to manufacture another crisis in the progress so they can pat themselves on the back while passing the buck to their successors.

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## Xtrema

> Lightning doesn’t need 100A for home charging. 48 amp is good enough for overnight.



His and Her own Lighting.  :Big Grin: 




> Interesting. Not a single mention of the environment in this article.
> 
> I'm sure the greenwashed libtards will be all over how great of an idea it is for the Liberals to subsidize EV cars and mining in Canada. The amount of doublethink in Canada (and a lot of the Western world) these days is truly shocking.



Because that add jobs in Ontario, so pollution is all good.

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## davidI

> I think it's one of those things where today's politicians, rich and famous are in denial and so hell bent on shutting down O&G that they are fully willing to manufacture another crisis in the progress so they can pat themselves on the back while passing the buck to their successors.



Yea, from a political perspective, as long as they keep the auto-sector (and their unions) happy, it's a job well done.

That holds true in US, Canada, Japan, Germany, France, Spain, and even the UK to an extent. Cars are such a big outlay for most people that forcing newer EVs upon the population is a great way to extort money to appease their favourite lobbiests.

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## Xtrema

> Yea, from a political perspective, as long as they keep the auto-sector (and their unions) happy, it's a job well done.
> 
> That holds true in US, Canada, Japan, Germany, France, Spain, and even the UK to an extent. Cars are such a big outlay for most people that forcing newer EVs upon the population is a great way to extort money to appease their favourite lobbiests.



Let's get real here. Pandemic has shown that commute is stupid for most workers. The minute metaverse is a thing, we won't be wasting energy and time to commute daily for most if not all white collar jobs.

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## davidI

> Let's get real here. Pandemic has shown that commute is stupid for most workers. The minute metaverse is a thing, we won't be wasting energy and time to commute daily for most if not all white collar jobs.



Exactly why politicians will start forcing people to buy new cars using emissions as an excuse.  :dunno: 

Here in Spain vehicles need emission stickers now and they're implementing Low Emission Zone / Zero Emission Zones within cities/towns where you can only drive if you have a low-emission vehicle.

After 4 years your vehicle gets inspected every 2 years and after 10 years of age it's annual.

I can't imagine it happening in Canada/US on a wide-scale for another 10+ years but I'd expect there being discussions of emission testing and emission related registration taxes in <5 years. States like California have had emission testing for ages.

Expect more bullshit "rebates" where the government pays for scrapping older vehicles and credits/rebates the purchase of new vehicles.

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## vengie

> Let's get real here. Pandemic has shown that commute is stupid for most workers. The minute metaverse is a thing, we won't be wasting energy and time to commute daily for most if not all white collar jobs.



I love how amenable so many people are to embrace living their entire life in a virtual world.

Its sad actually. 

I feel sorry for these people.

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## ZenOps

The crunch is on. Used combustion cars appreciating in value quite a bit. I can imagine there will be diehards who will go combustion till the very end.

Drive a new car off the lot, and how much will it appreciate in value? Welcome to 2022.

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