# Car Forums > Automotive News >  Ford Is Going to 100% Online, Fixed-Price Sales For EVs

## HiSpec

If this is successful, perhaps one day other manufacturers will follow?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a40175990/ford-online-sales-no-negotiation/

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## ExtraSlow

Makes sense on a vehicle where demand far exceeds supply. Ford (And GM and FCA) have a difficult relationship with their dealers already, they need to do something different. Will be interesting what states and dealer groups sue the manufacturers for this kind of sales model, because certain states have laws against direct sales.

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## Buster

Make sense since the entire service model for the auto industry is going to fundamentally change to be far simpler - and the dealership model along with it.

I would be exiting the car dealer business ASAP if I was in it.

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## redline

The company also intends to massively scale back advertising for its EVS, another way it has to adapt. "If you ever see Ford Motor Co. doing a Super Bowl ad on our electric vehicles, sell the stock," he said.

dumbest thing ever said by a CEO.

I for one still want to see it drive it etc... before buying it. Not sure how they do that without dealers and online only. even tesla has showroooms ... for the final purchase is online then fine but that is not what they are implying here.

and i do like to "deal" but if everyone does it

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## suntan

> Make sense since the entire service model for the auto industry is going to fundamentally change to be far simpler - and the dealership model along with it.
> 
> I would be exiting the car dealer business ASAP if I was in it.



Don't worry, there'll be plenty of people getting their battery filter changed.

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## spike98

> The company also intends to massively scale back advertising for its EVS, another way it has to adapt. "If you ever see Ford Motor Co. doing a Super Bowl ad on our electric vehicles, sell the stock," he said.
> 
> dumbest thing ever said by a CEO.
> 
> I for one still want to see it drive it etc... before buying it. Not sure how they do that without dealers and online only. even tesla has showroooms ... for the final purchase is online then fine but that is not what they are implying here.
> 
> and i do like to "deal" but if everyone does it



Online for EV's only. This to me implies that there will still be physical dealers and that is where you could book a test drive for the EV's. The dealer network would also facilitate delivery of the EV's and you would likely pick it up from a dealer as well.

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## killramos

Great idea.

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## HiSpec

If this goes well and other manufacturers follow through with it (both EV and ICE), I think the dealerships will end up just facilitating the test drive, F&I, delivery and services.

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## heavyD

I assume this is in response to Ford dealers gouging customers on Mach E's. I have zero sympathy for the current dealer model as it's the worst part of the automobile owning experience.

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## Swank

> If this goes well and other manufacturers follow through with it (both EV and ICE), I think the dealerships will end up just facilitating the test drive, F&I, delivery and services.



Probably trade-in assessments and used car sales too.

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## danno

I’d be happy to be done with dealers, I just hope they can curb people from buying and flipping.

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## killramos

Buying and flipping is just called making the market.

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## Buster

EVs aren't cars anyway, they are the final move to transportation appliances.

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## Swank

> EVs aren't cars anyway, they are the final move to transportation appliances.



House of Transportation Appliances doesn't have a very nice ring to it.

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## ExtraSlow

> House of Transportation Appliancezzz doesn't have a very nice ring to it.



There that's better.

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## heavyD

The Tesla sales model is pretty good. Order car online. Apply for financing online. Get trade in estimate online. No interactions with greasy salesmen or finance people trying to sell you extended warranties and accessories. It's the manufacturing and QC part they aren't very good at.

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## killramos

My favourite car transaction had my new car show up in my parking spot at work and I went down to the lobby to sign papers. That was great.

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## Buster

> The Tesla sales model is pretty good. Order car online. Apply for financing online. Get trade in estimate online. No interactions with greasy salesmen or finance people trying to sell you extended warranties and accessories. It's the manufacturing and QC part they aren't very good at.



Every car I buy is basically an online purchase. The business managers hate me.

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## Pauly Boy

I was actually impressed with the Ford dealer in Methbridge here on cheap F150 lease. Matched Can Clark deal. Did everything email/phone. No admin/extras after either. F&I office didn't push a thing on the wife when she went to sign the papers. They are the exception to the norm though, lol

I'm torn, on one hand I despise the dealership song and dance, on the other hand I also despise paying full price for anything...

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## pheoxs

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...out-leased-ev/

New info out from Ford. Apparently buying the car out after a lease won't be an option. 




> Effective June 15, Ford removed the buyout option for customers leasing EVs such as the Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightning. Ford says the change is to keep batteries in the Ford network.
> 
> Ford has made a change to its lease policy that will prevent people leasing the F-150 Lightning, Mustang Mach-E, and E-Transit EVs from choosing to purchase the vehicle at the end of the contract. The customers will need to return the vehicle, at which time they can either lease a new vehicle or simply return the car.
> 
> 
> The reason, a Ford spokesperson told _Car and Driver_, is the desire to keep EVs "in the Ford network longer" to maintain control over battery recycling and materials. The news came in a letter to dealers earlier this month and, Ford said, affects 38 states now and the rest by the end of the year, so customers should check with their local dealers to find out where they stand.



I wonder if this would eventually shift to a model where you can't own the vehicle at all? Keep people paying forever and just replace the batteries and re-release them out indefinitely?

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## killramos

“You will own nothing and be happy”

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## Xtrema

> I wonder if this would eventually shift to a model where you can't own the vehicle at all? Keep people paying forever and just replace the batteries and re-release them out indefinitely?



We are heading that way isn't it? With every manufacture teasing App/4G connectivity that become a monthly revenue one teaser period expires?

In this case, Ford just want the battery back so they can be reconditioned and put it into next batch of cars or secondary battery storage market. They don't want you to own it. And if you do, cash up front, don't lease.

Manufacturers are slowly learning they left so much $ on the table having buyout clause on leases since 2019 when 2-3 year old cars are now traded back in at close to MSRP.

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## zechs

> https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...out-leased-ev/
> 
> New info out from Ford. Apparently buying the car out after a lease won't be an option. 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if this would eventually shift to a model where you can't own the vehicle at all? Keep people paying forever and just replace the batteries and re-release them out indefinitely?



I doubt we will own cars within the next two decades as right to repair becomes so fucked that you will be unable to fix your vehicles.

"Oops, your car is no longer supported by Ford OS updates and is therefore unsafe for use on the road, your car will be disabled"

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## spike98

> I doubt we will own cars within the next two decades as right to repair becomes so fucked that you will be unable to fix your vehicles.
> 
> "Oops, your car is no longer supported by Ford OS updates and is therefore unsafe for use on the road, your car will be disabled"



Lots of that is already happening now. You need a dealer tool to replace a ton of things. Even a battery in some cases.

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## Xtrema

> "Oops, your car is no longer supported by Ford OS updates and is therefore unsafe for use on the road, your car will be disabled"



BMW has to register your battery on replacement for what, over a decade now?

We are working towards disposable cars.




> “You will own nothing and be happy”

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## Buster

I really lost interest in cars about a year or two ago. All of you guys will be joining me shortly.

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## killramos

Soon you won’t be allowed to own your e bike either.

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## Buster

#ridgeline4lyfe

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## zechs

> I really lost interest in cars about a year or two ago. All of you guys will be joining me shortly.



Drive a big rowdy v8 'merican powered something with a stick.

Hasn't changed, still a good experience, probably has gotten better with how well made aftermarket parts are nowadays.

You can daily drive a 600hp N/A LS engined anything with any amenities you want. More if you do a simple supercharger setup.

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## Buster

> Drive a big rowdy v8 'merican powered something with a stick.
> 
> Hasn't changed, still a good experience, probably has gotten better with how well made aftermarket parts are nowadays.
> 
> You can daily drive a 600hp N/A LS engined anything with any amenities you want. More if you do a simple supercharger setup.



sure, but that experience is going away.

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## spike98

> Drive a big rowdy v8 'merican powered something with a stick.
> 
> Hasn't changed, still a good experience, probably has gotten better with how well made aftermarket parts are nowadays.
> 
> You can daily drive a 600hp N/A LS engined anything with any amenities you want. More if you do a simple supercharger setup.



Don't forget the 20l/100km fuel economy and the $2.20 fuel for prem.

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## zechs

> sure, but that experience is going away.



Is it? I think this debate has been had before elsewhere on this board, but horses didn't disappear, ICE cars will be around for a long time (forever?) Ethanol is kind-of-sort-of a renewable fuel, cars will likely just have to switch over to that. In North America we are fine. Unless you mean literal banning of ICE cars period no exceptions, I doubt that a blanket ban will occur in the Free Republic of Alberta, nor in Canada if the Liberals aren't given a complete stranglehold for the next 15 years straight.

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## Buster

> Is it? I think this debate has been had before elsewhere on this board, but horses didn't disappear, ICE cars will be around for a long time (forever?) Ethanol is kind-of-sort-of a renewable fuel, cars will likely just have to switch over to that. In North America we are fine. Unless you mean literal banning of ICE cars period no exceptions, I doubt that a blanket ban will occur in the Free Republic of Alberta, nor in Canada if the Liberals aren't given a complete stranglehold for the next 15 years straight.



I mean more the R+D side from manufacturers. I mean, if you're satisfied driving old cars as a hobby, you are going to get a lot more out of ICE.

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## Darkane

> Is it? I think this debate has been had before elsewhere on this board, but horses didn't disappear, ICE cars will be around for a long time (forever?) Ethanol is kind-of-sort-of a renewable fuel, cars will likely just have to switch over to that. In North America we are fine. Unless you mean literal banning of ICE cars period no exceptions, I doubt that a blanket ban will occur in the Free Republic of Alberta, nor in Canada if the Liberals aren't given a complete stranglehold for the next 15 years straight.



Don’t forget synthetic fuel - Porsche is working hard on this right now. 

The EU just compromised and are allowing carbon net fuels for ICE passed 2035. Woot for engine noise.

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## Ukyo8

> I really lost interest in cars about a year or two ago. All of you guys will be joining me shortly.




Nope, I just keep driving 90s cars  :Love:

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## Buster

> Nope, I just keep driving 90s cars



That's cool, but it's turning into a niche hobby.

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## bjstare

> Don’t forget synthetic fuel - Porsche is working hard on this right now.



This is nothing more than a POC, no chance it becomes real. Especially considering it can't be more than a few more years before battery capacity/charging issues are solved.

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## ExtraSlow

People who think synthetic fuel is smart are people I would not trust with money.

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## zechs

> People who think synthetic fuel is smart are people I would not trust with money.



I mean, ethanol is effectively one giant government financed boondoggle and yet people have made money off of it.

Would love to see how the infrastructure and waste of arable land for fuel instead of food all comes together to make sense, but haven't seen a white paper on that coming close to being believable.

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## heavyD

As a person that once swore off EV's I hate to say it but after driving a Model 3 Performance for a month I can say I'm not really missing much about ICE cars. It's not like I'm tracking cars here and the reality is that my cars are used for commuting. I'm actually going to have a lot of interest when we get to the stage where real automakers are offering dedicated EV sports cars. Yes there's a loss of that visceral sensation when driving a beautifully sounding ICE vehicle but we can't change the present or future so you either make the decision to pack up your bags and go home or embrace the new technologies and continuing to enjoy other dynamics of driving like handling, acceleration, modding appearance, etc. As with everything else in life it's all about what you make of it. You can choose to be a negative Nancy that lives in the past or choose enjoy today and have fun with the tools available to you.

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## Buster

> As a person that once swore off EV's I hate to say it but after driving a Model 3 Performance for a month I can say I'm not really missing much about ICE cars. It's not like I'm tracking cars here and the reality is that my cars are used for commuting. I'm actually going to have a lot of interest when we get to the stage where real automakers are offering dedicated EV sports cars. Yes there's a loss of that visceral sensation when driving a beautifully sounding ICE vehicle but we can't change the present or future so you either make the decision to pack up your bags and go home or embrace the new technologies and continuing to enjoy other dynamics of driving like handling, acceleration, modding appearance, etc. As with everything else in life it's all about what you make of it. You can choose to be a negative Nancy that lives in the past or choose enjoy today and have fun with the tools available to you.



The competition for EVs as a hobby isn't old cars, it's all of the other things you can do other than cars. I'm just replacing my car enthusiasm with non-car things.

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## heavyD

> The competition for EVs as a hobby isn't old cars, it's all of the other things you can do other than cars. I'm just replacing my car enthusiasm with non-car things.



That's great if you can. If I had non-car things I could replace car things with I would have done that long ago as I would be in a much better financial situation today. Unfortunately I'm locked into what I like at this stage of my life. A car is a car to me whether it be ICE or EV.

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## bjstare

> The competition for EVs as a hobby isn't old cars, it's all of the other things you can do other than cars. I'm just replacing my car enthusiasm with non-car things.



You've talked a lot about why acceleration (i.e., performance) is no longer a differentiator with EVs. This is certainly true. One thing I can't reconcile though, is it's still fun to go fast. Do you only like to go faster than others, as opposed to just going fast? 

I'm w/ HeavyD. Cars will still be fun, just different.




> That's great if you can. If I had non-car things I could replace car things with I would have done that long ago as I would be in a much better financial situation today. Unfortunately I'm locked into what I like at this stage of my life. A car is a car to me whether it be ICE or EV.



Preach. I wish I wasn't into cars, it's the stupidest hobby.

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## killramos

Cars are cool because they are complex and interesting.

There is nothing interesting about an EV.

Am EV going fast is the CGI of cars.

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## Buster

> Cars are cool because they are complex and interesting.
> 
> There is nothing interesting about an EV.
> 
> Am EV going fast is the CGI of cars.



i was going to write a longer post saying exactly this in a less interesting way.

- - - Updated - - -




> You've talked a lot about why acceleration (i.e., performance) is no longer a differentiator with EVs. This is certainly true. One thing I can't reconcile though, is it's still fun to go fast. Do you only like to go faster than others, as opposed to just going fast?



Speed is only one component of exhilaration. I mean, you're going WAY faster in a 787 flying to Toronto. Yet that's not interesting.

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## killramos

Well. I think 787’s are interesting.

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## Buster

> Well. I think 787’s are interesting.



listen, you

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## Disoblige

To me even as a kid into R/C, nitro cars/trucks were more interesting than electric even though electric was quicker. They were just boring.
I'll enjoy ICE while I can until I can't. It has nothing to do with being stubborn. When EVs is ultra cheap and you have super high end performance models that aren't $150k+, I'll bite the bullet.

On a totally unrelated note, isn't it more "interesting" to cook on a gas stove than electric?  :ROFL!:

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## killramos

Fuck electric stoves

Gas all the way

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## Buster

> To me even as a kid into R/C, nitro cars/trucks were more interesting than electric even though electric was quicker. They were just boring.
> I'll enjoy ICE while I can until I can't. It has nothing to do with being stubborn. When EVs is ultra cheap and you have super high end performance models that aren't $150k+, I'll bite the bullet.
> 
> On a totally unrelated note, isn't it more "interesting" to cook on a gas stove than electric?



I cook on the rendered fat of my vanquished foes.

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## heavyD

Now that modern vehicles are using EPS and electrically adjustable dampers and differentials, I feel the only we are really losing going to EV's is the visceral rush of intake/exhaust noise. I suppose people that like to do stuff like oil changes, intakes, exhaust, etc lose the odd weekend in the garage turning a wrench but the reality is that modern car engines are so complicated you can't do a lot on them anyway. While my EV is a little different from my ICE cars how it goes about some things it still drives and feels like any ice car outside of the fact the lower center of gravity provides less sensation of body roll which is welcomed.

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