# Lounge > Travel and Vacation >  YYC Direct Flights Shakeup 2023 - AC Out, WJ In

## ExtraSlow

Lots of news about the landscape of direct flights from YYC recently. Westjet has announced it is greatly increasing the destinations served direct from Calgary, including basing it's entire DreamLiner Fleet here to serve several European Destinations such as Tokyo, Barcelona, Edinburgh are added to the current flights of Rome, Paris, Dublin, London Heathrow and London Gatwick. 

Possibly unrelated, but Air Canada has cancelled many YYC regional direct flights to places such as Saskatoon, Regina, Yellowknife, Kamloops, Victoria and Nanaimo.

It certainly seems like anyone who travel out of YYC, WestJet is looking much more appealing for both regional and long-haul travel.

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## dirtsniffer

Way fewer french people on board as a nice perk

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## taemo

We have 2 trips and planning for a 3rd one this year and WJ is definitely the first place I check for direct flights from Calgary

doesn't hurt that both wife and I have the WJ RBC MC, WJD and travel vouchers.

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## Maxx Mazda

AC pulled out of Calgary because the yields here are way too low. I will say one thing they are very good at, is going where the money is. You have AC, WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Sunwing all competing for the same tiny market in Calgary. Better to let WestJet duke it out with the LCC's, while they go after the money elsewhere. You can still get to anywhere in the world on AC, it's just now through one of their hubs. Their overseas flights to Heathrow and Frankfurt will continue daily, year round. 

Westjet has always operated on the point to point type of business model, which is great for passenger convenience, but it can often mean you're flying around half empty airplanes everywhere, which is bad for the bottom line. You're seeing a big return in the USA to the "hub and spoke" model of air travel, which was popular for decades due to it's lower operating costs. AC is also returning to this model, especially out of cities like Calgary and Edmonton, where the air travel market isn't as "juicy" as it is elsewhere. Remember, the majority of travelers don't care if there's a connection on their journey, as long as it's $12 cheaper. 

In addition to that, it wouldn't surprise me if there was some sort of backroom deal between AC and WJ. Recall, WJ pulled out of the east a few months ago, under the guise of "returning to their roots." Wouldn't be that far fetched to imagine that the two companies each agreed to stay in their respective backyards, in order to keep fares high. They have had a cozy relationship for years.

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## suntan

> In addition to that, it wouldn't surprise me if there was some sort of backroom deal between AC and WJ. Recall, WJ pulled out of the east a few months ago, under the guise of "returning to their roots." Wouldn't be that far fetched to imagine that the two companies each agreed to stay in their respective backyards, in order to keep fares high. They have had a cozy relationship for years.



Wut. When I worked at WJA the hate for AC was unreal. Literally every fucking conversation went like this:

"What does AC do?"

"Let's do the opposite!"

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## ExtraSlow

> AC pulled out of Calgary because the yields here are way too low. I will say one thing they are very good at, is going where the money is. You have AC, WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Sunwing all competing for the same tiny market in Calgary. Better to let WestJet duke it out with the LCC's, while they go after the money elsewhere. You can still get to anywhere in the world on AC, it's just now through one of their hubs. Their overseas flights to Heathrow and Frankfurt will continue daily, year round. 
> 
> Westjet has always operated on the point to point type of business model, which is great for passenger convenience, but it can often mean you're flying around half empty airplanes everywhere, which is bad for the bottom line. You're seeing a big return in the USA to the "hub and spoke" model of air travel, which was popular for decades due to it's lower operating costs. AC is also returning to this model, especially out of cities like Calgary and Edmonton, where the air travel market isn't as "juicy" as it is elsewhere. Remember, the majority of travelers don't care if there's a connection on their journey, as long as it's $12 cheaper. 
> 
> In addition to that, it wouldn't surprise me if there was some sort of backroom deal between AC and WJ. Recall, WJ pulled out of the east a few months ago, under the guise of "returning to their roots." Wouldn't be that far fetched to imagine that the two companies each agreed to stay in their respective backyards, in order to keep fares high. They have had a cozy relationship for years.



Probably all true, sounds reasonable.

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## bjstare

> Probably all true, sounds reasonable.



I'd agree, with the exception that AC is not good at anything. As evidenced by government bailouts for many years.

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## Team_Mclaren

> Wut. When I worked at WJA the hate for AC was unreal. Literally every fucking conversation went like this:
> 
> "What does AC do?"
> 
> "Let's do the opposite!"



WJ is now privately owned. Bottom line is everything. 

Fuck WJ tho, AC has a much better product at the end IMO.

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## ExtraSlow

> Fuck WJ tho, AC has a much better product at the end IMO.



That's an interesting take. I know WJ is no longer the plucky fun airline of the 90's, but I thought they merely came down to AC level. Not that I fly much anymore.

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## Team_Mclaren

> That's an interesting take. I know WJ is no longer the plucky fun airline of the 90's, but I thought they merely came down to AC level. Not that I fly much anymore.



I guess it depends on where you fly? To 80% of the world you can only do AC. AC has better planes than those oldass 737NG from WJ. Sure they have got some 787 now but AC has had them for much longer. Aeroplan > WJ dollar BS that charges you more to use WJ $. 

If you're flying NA then who cares, max trip time is like 4-5 hours.

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## Inzane

Fuck AC.

I remember the last flight I was able to take on Canadian before it was shut down (in 2000) and wondered why TF did we have to lose THAT airline instead of Air Canada. Air Canada has been shit for a long long time.

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## ExtraSlow

I totally agree on routes where WJ doesn't fly, AC is better.

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## gwill

I tried booking a westjet vacation over the last week or two and every nice resort I wanted to go to would show its available but then youd book and it wasnt available any longer. Eventually decided it was no longer worth the hassle trying to give west jet business. Guess westjets website sucks for booking a last minute vacation.

Ended up spending way too much money flying air canada for our upcoming trip.

Surprisingly a/c flight times to Jamaica were better than the direct flights from Calgary.

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## Maxx Mazda

> Wut. When I worked at WJA the hate for AC was unreal. Literally every fucking conversation went like this:
> 
> "What does AC do?"
> 
> "Let's do the opposite!"



Wasn’t that before WJ was owned by Onex, and about 3 CEO’s ago? It’s all about the bottom line now.

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## gpomp

> I guess it depends on where you fly? To 80% of the world you can only do AC. AC has better planes than those oldass 737NG from WJ. Sure they have got some 787 now but AC has had them for much longer. Aeroplan > WJ dollar BS that charges you more to use WJ $. 
> 
> If you're flying NA then who cares, max trip time is like 4-5 hours.



Yeah the WJ planes are feeling really old. AC's domestic flights with Max 8's and A220's are pretty nice. WJ might have been better 10-15 years ago but right now I prefer flying AC.

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## ExtraSlow

must depend on the route. My WJ Halifax flight was max plane. don't recall what I flew to vegas, but then again, I don't recall much about that trip, good times. 
My Mexico trip is scheduled to be a dreamliner, which is a surprise for that route.

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## Brent.ff

last time i took an AC flight i got told off 3x by the stewardess for having headphones on, even before the plane was fully boarded. WJ they just leave you the F alone.

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## Team_Mclaren

I dont understand the hate on AC, when WS is the same shit.

People make such a big deal with the 787, that plane has been out for 10+ years. Try flying in a A350 / A220 and you'll never look back.

- - - Updated - - -




> last time i took an AC flight i got told off 3x by the stewardess for having headphones on, even before the plane was fully boarded. WJ they just leave you the F alone.



you mean flight attendance not doing their job? "Transport Canada regulations prevent the wearing of earbud-type headsets during taxi, takeoff and landing."

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## killramos

TIL while a plane is boarding it counts as taxiing.

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## Maxx Mazda

> last time i took an AC flight i got told off 3x by the stewardess for having headphones on, even before the plane was fully boarded. WJ they just leave you the F alone.






> I dont understand the hate on AC, when WS is the same shit.
> 
> People make such a big deal with the 787, that plane has been out for 10+ years. Try flying in a A350 / A220 and you'll never look back.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> you mean flight attendance not doing their job? "Transport Canada regulations prevent the wearing of earbud-type headsets during taxi, takeoff and landing."



Probably not even an AC flight. I bet it was Jazz. That rule has since changed anyways, that as long as they’re connected to onboard IFE it’s allowed, since it would mute in an emergency.

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## max_boost

Get me to destination and I’m okay with any airline. First world problem  :Big Grin: 

Thinking of Thailand in spring or Hawaii in summer. First big trip since 2019 woohoo

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## Buster

This is also the air travel industry preparing for an overall shift in public policy and mood towards air travel that will happen over the next decade or more.

The days of the middle class flying around the world for relatively cheap are numbered (or gone). International travel and flying for vacations will be moving up to "luxury" status.

We'll see a much reduced capital investment in airports and airplanes, as the risk/return profile will shift... Let's be honest it was always on the cusp anyway. We're already seeing this.

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## max_boost

So pricing the peasants out is what you’re saying?

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## bjstare

> I guess it depends on where you fly? To 80% of the world you can only do AC. AC has better planes than those oldass 737NG from WJ. Sure they have got some 787 now but AC has had them for much longer. Aeroplan > WJ dollar BS that charges you more to use WJ $. 
> 
> If you're flying NA then who cares, max trip time is like 4-5 hours.



Agree with everything you're saying, except I think you're off base on WJ$ redemption.

They don't charge you more to use WJ$. Or at least they haven't with any flight I've booked with them (including the one I'm leaving on next week)... vs Air Canada where you get wildly varying value for your points, depending on time/route/biz class vs cattle class, etc.

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## Inzane

For a given destination/travel distance, which airline has the best legroom in coach class? End of the day, that's what I would care about the most. Not how modern the plane is or how many times you get served ice with a bit of soft drink.

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## littledan

you gotta just check on seatguru and compare the routes. it can vary within same plane depending on row etc.

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## Buster

> So pricing the peasants out is what you’re saying?



It's not a business strategy by the airlines in that sense. It will be more of an economic reality (ie inflation), plus public policy (carbon policy and a desire to keep spending domestic).

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## max_boost

Oh I see. Makes sense.

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## suntan

> Wasn’t that before WJ was owned by Onex, and about 3 CEO’s ago? It’s all about the bottom line now.



TIL publicly traded companies are not about the bottom line.

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## Hallowed_point

> WJ is now privately owned. Bottom line is everything. 
> 
> Fuck WJ tho, AC has a much better product at the end IMO.



QFT, WJ is just a name nowadays. They have brutal customer service.

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## Brent.ff

> I dont understand the hate on AC, when WS is the same shit.
> 
> People make such a big deal with the 787, that plane has been out for 10+ years. Try flying in a A350 / A220 and you'll never look back.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> you mean flight attendance not doing their job? "Transport Canada regulations prevent the wearing of earbud-type headsets during taxi, takeoff and landing."



weren't earbuds..

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## Team_Mclaren

> weren't earbuds..




Fair enough, and that rule has been very inconsistently enforce anyways. 

But if you're gonna hate on an airline because an FA told you to remove your "headphones", well...

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## ExtraSlow

> Agree with everything you're saying, except I think you're off base on WJ$ redemption.
> 
> They don't charge you more to use WJ$. Or at least they haven't with any flight I've booked with them (including the one I'm leaving on next week)... vs Air Canada where you get wildly varying value for your points, depending on time/route/biz class vs cattle class, etc.



Totally agree. With WJ, you find the price of the seat long before you have to decide what method of payment you are using. WJ Dollars spend like cash, same with their travel credits. No funny business with the fares tehre. 
Maybe you mean the "member exclusive" fares, which I find are often not a very good deal compared to cash.

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## Team_Mclaren

> TIL publicly traded companies are not about the bottom line.



It's different because publicly traded companies care about perception and image as share prices affect payout for CEO and executives. Private companies care less because their compensation isn't tie to share prices.




> Totally agree. With WJ, you find the price of the seat long before you have to decide what method of payment you are using. WJ Dollars spend like cash, same with their travel credits. No funny business with the fares tehre. 
> Maybe you mean the "member exclusive" fares, which I find are often not a very good deal compared to cash.



I stand corrected on the WJ$ then. A few years ago I tried to use them having to log in and use the member exclusion pricing, which is more than normal pricing?!

Still, Aeroplan > WJ$

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## max_boost

Airplane mode is no longer a thing right

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## Xtrema

> must depend on the route. My WJ Halifax flight was max plane. don't recall what I flew to vegas, but then again, I don't recall much about that trip, good times. 
> My Mexico trip is scheduled to be a dreamliner, which is a surprise for that route.



Well they cancel the Amsterdam route, those Dreamliners gotta go somewhere. Looking forward to direct to Tokyo route tho.




> Airplane mode is no longer a thing right



Nobody do it but odd attendant still want you to put your shit away on takeoff/landing. Most DGAF.

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## schurchill39

I'm usually a WJ guy for domestics but the pricing has been nuts lately. In september the wife and I flew to Saskatoon for a wedding and with our companion voucher from the WJ MC the flights for both of us were still about a hundred bucks total more than just paying for Air Canada's straight up fee. Now with AC pulling out of all of these smaller markets, I can't imagine what that will do for the price of those flights.

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## Buster

Open up foreign ownership.

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## benyl

You could say that about so many industries. Telecom being another.

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## Swank

> Get me to destination and I’m okay with any airline. First world problem



Agreed, it's like associated vs checker cabs but in the sky. God help us if Uber Air ever becomes a thing.

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## killramos

> You could say that about so many industries. Telecom being another.



Sure why not.

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## flipstah

Amtrak expansion here we come

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## Maxx Mazda

> I'm usually a WJ guy for domestics but the pricing has been nuts lately. In september the wife and I flew to Saskatoon for a wedding and with our companion voucher from the WJ MC the flights for both of us were still about a hundred bucks total more than just paying for Air Canada's straight up fee. Now with AC pulling out of all of these smaller markets, I can't imagine what that will do for the price of those flights.



See my post above. If each airline sticks to "their" respective routes, fares can be kept high. Profit for everyone!

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## jwslam

> Get me to destination *ON TIME* and Im okay with any airline.



ftfy

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## davidI

> I dont understand the hate on AC, when WS is the same shit.
> 
> People make such a big deal with the 787, that plane has been out for 10+ years. Try flying in a A350 / A220 and you'll never look back.



I've flown... a lot (600+ flights) and my opinions is that Boeing > Airbus. The layouts always seem better, especially having individual vent controls. Even the A380 isn't that nice compared to the 777, although the bar in the back of the EK 380 for First/Business is pretty sick.





> TIL while a plane is boarding it counts as taxiing.



I know you're being sarcastic but for most airlines cabin crew don't start getting paid until push back so they're usually keen to get everyone boarded as quickly as possible. Sometimes, if there is a delay but the pilot is nice, they'll find a way to pushback and then wait rather than wait at the gate so that the crew are on the clock.

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## rage2

> I know you're being sarcastic but for most airlines cabin crew don't start getting paid until push back so they're usually keen to get everyone boarded as quickly as possible. Sometimes, if there is a delay but the pilot is nice, they'll find a way to pushback and then wait rather than wait at the gate so that the crew are on the clock.



Always been baffled by that. What good is a union when their members aren’t t being paid while working to board people?

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## ExtraSlow

Leads to all kinds of bad outcomes for customers too.

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## suntan

> Always been baffled by that. What good is a union when their members aren’t t being paid while working to board people?



WJA used to pay 1 hour for the time when FAs would wait for the bus to and fro.

See they're ahead now.

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## haggis88

To paraphrase George Orwell

"All airlines are equally shit, but some are more equally shit than others"

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