# Car Forums > General Car/Bike Talk >  Tesla vehicle discussion. No Elon or stock chat.

## benyl

Thread to talk about the vehicles only to avoid the convo on stock price and the Elon loving and hating.

The company conversation is located here: https://forums.beyond.ca/threads/373280-Tesla-Motors

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I'll start the convo.

What do you guys typically see for range reduction when it is -30?

FAQ for new owners started: https://forums.beyond.ca/threads/411...37#post4928237

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## Jlude

I haven't seen any range reduction in my S, it also doesn't sit outside in the weather for any significant length of time. I usually keep my battery charged to about 497 kilometers of range, never come close to depleting the battery.

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## KPHMPH

I’ve found if I leave the X outside during these last few weeks I don’t have any regenerative braking what so ever. 

If you plan to leave it outside, set your charge to finish right when you have to leave for work so the battery is warm and ready to go.

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## dj_rice

I have no input to provide other than finding out Tesla has a Sentry mode that records on all cameras. How many cams does it have? That is badass. Only found this out from that Facebook post being shared around of that dude keying the Tesla owners car in Edmonton. Kinda odd he just drives up, keys it and goes off. Maybe the Tesla cut him off bad or something. 

https://globalnews.ca/news/6028584/e...ndalism-video/

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## KPHMPH

> I have no input to provide other than finding out Tesla has a Sentry mode that records on all cameras. How many cams does it have? That is badass. Only found this out from that Facebook post being shared around of that dude keying the Tesla owners car in Edmonton.



Front, 2 sides and a rear all record when someone comes within close proximity of the car. All the lights will flash and a sentry dot will flash on the main screen.

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## Skrilla

> I have no input to provide other than finding out Tesla has a Sentry mode that records on all cameras. How many cams does it have? That is badass. Only found this out from that Facebook post being shared around of that dude keying the Tesla owners car in Edmonton.



I seen something like that on Reddit, was a compilation of a bunch of people getting busted by those cameras.

OT: I have been looking at possibly trying out a pre-owned model. Which ones have the Ludacris mode? The one I was seriously looking at was a P85D model. Is it smart choice to go pre-owned and try one out?

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## Jlude

> I seen something like that on Reddit, was a compilation of a bunch of people getting busted by those cameras.
> 
> OT: I have been looking at possibly trying out a pre-owned model. Which ones have the Ludacris mode? The one I was seriously looking at was a P85D model. Is it smart choice to go pre-owned and try one out?



Pre "Performance" models, if you have the two lines under the model designation, it has ludicrous mode. Now it's just called performance model, instead of long range.

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## mo_money2supe

> Went in because we dropped off the E63 for service at Lonestar. Was there to test drive one because the wife hates putting gas in the car. I ended up buying one instead cause, holy fuck, it is fast. 
> 
> Got the performance. Skipping the FSD for now.
> 
> Attachment 87867



Welcome to the club! Come join the Tesla Owners Club of Alberta (TOCA) group on Facebook too if you haven't already and be sure to join in on the TOCA get-togethers. You'll often catch us doing Auto-Summon races.  :Burn Out: 

Although V8s have their obvious sound benefits, the Performance Model 3 still gives me more thrills per mile. I ran an 11.7 @ 118mph in the 1/4 at one of the past Half Mile events so it's no slouch! That was before the 5% boost in power (free over-the-air update!) and the much lighter WedsSport wheels I put on this past summer too.

If anyone has questions about the car or EVs in general, let me know (or if you need a referral code  :Angel: ). I've had my Performance Model 3 for just over a year now and can speak to its drive through all seasons, including to ski hills & back, road trips to the Okanagan, mods, daily charging, Level 1/2/3 charging, etc, etc...

Here's a recent pic of mine:

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## flipstah

> Welcome to the club! Come join the Tesla Owners Club of Alberta (TOCA) group on Facebook too if you haven't already and be sure to join in on the TOCA get-togethers. You'll often catch us doing Auto-Summon races. 
> 
> Although V8s have their obvious sound benefits, the Performance Model 3 still gives me more thrills per mile. I ran an 11.7 @ 118mph in the 1/4 at one of the past Half Mile events so it's no slouch! That was before the 5% boost in power (free over-the-air update!) and the much lighter WedsSport wheels I put on this past summer too.
> 
> If anyone has questions about the car or EVs in general, let me know (or if you need a referral code ). I've had my Performance Model 3 for just over a year now and can speak to its drive through all seasons, including to ski hills & back, road trips to the Okanagan, mods, daily charging, Level 1/2/3 charging, etc, etc...
> 
> Here's a recent pic of mine:



Nice ride! What color is that? It's like rust orange; I like.  :Smilie:

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## LilDrunkenSmurf

Ya'll making me regret my GTI.

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## mo_money2supe

> Nice ride! What color is that? It's like rust orange; I like.



It's a vinyl wrap actually; base colour is the flat black ("free" at the time). 3M 1080 in Gloss Fiery Orange. Looks amazing in person when it's clean!




> Ya'll making me regret my GTI.



Sell it and get a Model 3! They start at $45k and if you keep the hardware trims down under $55k, there's still currently a federal incentive of $5k. Take advantage before the Libs get booted next week!

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## The_Rural_Juror

Use my referral code instead. I can show you all how to use the fart generator. I can also fart on demand if required.

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## mo_money2supe

> Use my referral code instead. I can show you all how to use the fart generator. I can also fart on demand if required.



Lol, I've got a lower user # so I'm more Beyond OG!  :Love:  I'll one-up Rural_Juror and let anyone Netflix 'n Chill inside my car (yes, all Model 3's now have built-in Netflix streaming)!  :Pooosie: 

In all seriousness, if there are any serious Tesla buyers out there, feel free to PM me for a test drive in my 480hp-ish Performance model if you'd like. EVs have crazy serious g-forces when accelerating!

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## 90_Shelby

> Lol, I've got a lower user # so I'm more Beyond OG!  I'll one-up Rural_Juror and let anyone Netflix 'n Chill inside my car (yes, all Model 3's now have built-in Netflix streaming)! 
> 
> In all seriousness, if there are any serious Tesla buyers out there, feel free to PM me for a test drive in my 480hp-ish Performance model if you'd like. EVs have crazy serious g-forces when accelerating!



Can i race you with my Jeep? 11.7 is hauling ass! I'm curious how it would stack up and I haven't been lucky enough to race anything with it yet.

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## 89coupe

> Can i race you with my Jeep? 11.7 is hauling ass! I'm curious how it would stack up and I haven't been lucky enough to race anything with it yet.



My buddy has the new Tesla 3 Dual Motor with the performance package, I can arrange a race with him if you want.

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## The_Rural_Juror

> I'll let anyone Netflix 'n Chill inside



You must REALLY want the 1500kms.  :Love:

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## mo_money2supe

> Can i race you with my Jeep? 11.7 is hauling ass! I'm curious how it would stack up and I haven't been lucky enough to race anything with it yet.



Absolutely! If yours is stock, I think it'll be a pretty even race. I'll definitely take you from the start but you'll catch up to me near the back half of the 1/4 and fully outright in the 1/2. Were you the black Trackhawk at the last Half Mile? I assume you know James M. with his ridiculous 1200+hp white Trackhawk?




> You must REALLY want the 1500kms.



Performance models from pre-Oct. 2018 had unlimited free supercharging.  :Wink:

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## pheoxs

> Sell it and get a Model 3! They start at $45k and if you keep the hardware trims down under $55k, there's still currently a federal incentive of $5k. Take advantage before the Libs get booted next week!



Typo? Their site shows 55k plus tax as the base unless I'm reading it wrong

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## benyl

There is a short range version that I think you have to go into a Tesla Store to order.

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## flipstah

There was a used Model S that came with unlimited charging. I didn't even know that was an offering!

It's definitely the future but I'm sure battery technology is just waiting to be improved.

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## LilDrunkenSmurf

> Lol, I've got a lower user # so I'm more Beyond OG!  I'll one-up Rural_Juror and let anyone Netflix 'n Chill inside my car (yes, all Model 3's now have built-in Netflix streaming)! 
> 
> In all seriousness, if there are any serious Tesla buyers out there, feel free to PM me for a test drive in my 480hp-ish Performance model if you'd like. EVs have crazy serious g-forces when accelerating!



I toyed around on the Tesla website. I would likely get the AWD model (long range?). I've driven my Uncle's RWD Tesla 3. It was really quite nice. As fun as it would be to jump into one, it's still probably a few years down the road, when the GTI lease runs out.

Also, I would use mo_money's referral code. I still remember when he sold me e-brake cables for my civic in 2006.

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## Xtrema

> There is a short range version that I think you have to go into a Tesla Store to order.



That's a neutered 150km model. Have not followed this a bit to see if one can pay and software unlocked for full SR range.

That's the one that can be had for $40K+GST after fed rebates. It's just a compliance car for Model 3 to qualify for rebates.

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## mo_money2supe

> Typo? Their site shows 55k plus tax as the base unless I'm reading it wrong






> That's a neutered 150km model. Have not followed this a bit to see if one can pay and software unlocked for full SR range.
> 
> That's the one that can be had for $40K+GST after fed rebates. It's just a compliance car for Model 3 to qualify for rebates.



Here's a quick summary of the "three" Model 3's that qualifies for the federal incentive:
$44,999+GST | "Under the table/order in store" | SR (not +) | software limited to 150km range
~$50,000+GST | SR (again, not +) | 385km range | no premium interior (no upgraded stereo, no LTE data, no rear heated seats, etc)
$54,999+GST | SR+ | 385km range | premium interior (see above)





> I toyed around on the Tesla website. I would likely get the AWD model (long range?). I've driven my Uncle's RWD Tesla 3. It was really quite nice. As fun as it would be to jump into one, it's still probably a few years down the road, when the GTI lease runs out.
> 
> Also, I would use mo_money's referral code. I still remember when he sold me e-brake cables for my civic in 2006.



Let me know if you want a drive in mine. I'm open to letting anyone driving the car to show it's performance abilities. Forget the whole Greta sustainability hipster idea with EVs; it's the surprising performance out of these cars that gets me out of bed every morning!

I totally remember you driving me to my place in your B16 Si, going down Deerfoot, showing me what VTEC sounds like. Can't believe that was 13 years ago!




> There was a used Model S that came with unlimited charging. I didn't even know that was an offering!
> 
> It's definitely the future but I'm sure battery technology is just waiting to be improved.



Pre-Jan 2017 (or was it Nov 2016?) Model S and Model X's had unlimited free supercharging that was transferable to future owners. Tesla allowed a very limited group of Model 3 Performances, as well as a small selection of post-Jun'ish 2019 *new* Model S/X's, to also get free unlimited supercharging (for first-owner only). The Model 3 Performance owners were then given a one-time refund of $5k USD ($6,6k CAD) if they want to give up their free supercharging, but I held on to my offering. We tend to do a lot of roadtrips so I figured I'd keep it.

Battery tech has already improved between the Model S/X's vs the Model 3s and upcoming Model Ys. I can link you to very techy articles about batteries but the future is already here!

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## mo_money2supe

> I'll start the convo.
> 
> What do you guys typically see for range reduction when it is -30?



Depending how long you park your car outside for, and if you leave it parked outside at home overnight (assuming while not charging), you _may_ see a range reduction by up to 40%. I park mine in an insulated garage at home (not heated) and a heated parkade at work. I've personally seen no more than maybe a 20% range reduction in -30-deg weather. *Note: not accounting for my habit of having a heavy foot at lights*  :Burn Out: 




> OT: I have been looking at possibly trying out a pre-owned model. Which ones have the Ludacris mode? The one I was seriously looking at was a P85D model. Is it smart choice to go pre-owned and try one out?



FYI, P85Ds did not come with Ludricrous (_unless_ they upgraded it to P90D via hardware upgrade and then paid an additional $20k to tack on Ludricrous). Some P85Ds did have "insane" mode though, which in reality is only as fast as the new Model 3 Performances without the handling characteristics of the 3.

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## The_Rural_Juror

> Also, I would use mo_money's referral code. I still remember when he sold me e-brake cables for my civic in 2006.



I would use mo_money's referral code as well, even though he doesn't need the supercharger miles, purely for the Netflix N Chill fun. 

Range wise. I get about 175 Wh/km going to the mountains on factory tires in the summer. During the recent snowstorm, I was around 330 Wh/km on Hakka 9s. Today, I hovered around 200 Wh/km. 
It works out to roughly 2 l/100km in the summer and 3.7 l/100km in the snowstorm on studded tires. The extra cost is negligible, but it means that you will have to charge more often in the winter.

One thing to watch for when buying used are the hardware version. The older vehicles don't have the two rear facing cameras by the fenders and may not have an extra front facing cam as well. You will need these for sentry mode and full self driving.

Other than the added features through software updates, the best part about these cars are that they drive like go-karts. You can drive in most places on one pedal due to the regen acting as brakes.
Navigate on Autopilot has gotten a lot better recently.

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> Lol, I've got a lower user # so I'm more Beyond OG!



Pssshh...'03s acting like they own this joint.  :Smilie:

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## Super_Geo

The tesla subreddit is really active: https://reddit.com/r/teslamotors/

Seems like people on there are saying cold weather cuts down range by about 30%.

Your supercharger referral miles expire 6 months from your last referral, but referring another person bumps the deadline by another 6 months.

I was in the market for a Model 3 Performance, but once I realized the fed incentive only applied to the base model SR+, I just ended up getting that. Not regretting that decision at all. SR+ is more than fast enough for city driving, and the 386km range isn't an issue when you can charge in your building.

In fact, I did Calgary > Vancouver in 1 day (supercharged in Golden, Revy, Cranbrook, Hope), then did Vancouver to SF in one session (9am Vancouver departure, 5:30am +1day SF arrival). I think getting the Long Range might've let me skip a couple supercharging sessions, but now that I've had it in SF for a month I don't think I would notice the difference at all between SR+ and LR AWD.

I ended up getting a $108k cheque from insurance for my Macan GTS that got totalled (only paid $91k for it new last year  :Angel: ), could've gotten two SR+ Model 3s with it  :ROFL!:

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## ExtraSlow

> The tesla subreddit is really active: https://reddit.com/r/teslamotors/
> 
> Seems like people on there are saying cold weather cuts down range by about 30%.
> 
> Your supercharger referral miles expire 6 months from your last referral, but referring another person bumps the deadline by another 6 months.
> 
> I was in the market for a Model 3 Performance, but once I realized the fed incentive only applied to the base model SR+, I just ended up getting that. Not regretting that decision at all. SR+ is more than fast enough for city driving, and the 386km range isn't an issue when you can charge in your building.
> 
> In fact, I did Calgary > Vancouver in 1 day (supercharged in Golden, Revy, Cranbrook, Hope), then did Vancouver to SF in one session (9am Vancouver departure, 5:30am +1day SF arrival). I think getting the Long Range might've let me skip a couple supercharging sessions, but now that I've had it in SF for a month I don't think I would notice the difference at all between SR+ and LR AWD.
> ...



You sir are an inspiration to us all.

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## shakalaka

> The tesla subreddit is really active: https://reddit.com/r/teslamotors/
> 
> Seems like people on there are saying cold weather cuts down range by about 30%.
> 
> Your supercharger referral miles expire 6 months from your last referral, but referring another person bumps the deadline by another 6 months.
> 
> I was in the market for a Model 3 Performance, but once I realized the fed incentive only applied to the base model SR+, I just ended up getting that. Not regretting that decision at all. SR+ is more than fast enough for city driving, and the 386km range isn't an issue when you can charge in your building.
> 
> In fact, I did Calgary > Vancouver in 1 day (supercharged in Golden, Revy, Cranbrook, Hope), then did Vancouver to SF in one session (9am Vancouver departure, 5:30am +1day SF arrival). I think getting the Long Range might've let me skip a couple supercharging sessions, but now that I've had it in SF for a month I don't think I would notice the difference at all between SR+ and LR AWD.
> ...



Congrats on the mini lottery!

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## benyl

Dilemma, I have delivery scheduled for Friday. But I want these wheels. 

https://electrek.co/2019/10/17/tesla...rmance-wheels/

Edit: nevermind. All Model 3s seem to have gone up $1k overnight. Am I reading it right?

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## The_Rural_Juror

> Dilemma, I have delivery scheduled for Friday. But I want these wheels. 
> 
> https://electrek.co/2019/10/17/tesla...rmance-wheels/
> 
> Edit: nevermind. All Model 3s seem to have gone up $1k overnight. Am I reading it right?



Looks like the gray wheels are the only option for Perfs now. Nice!

Indeed the price has gone up.

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## Homerrca

I have seen a few model 3 in pics as well as real life and while they look decent, that front end with no grill really just doesn't do it for me. Maybe I am getting old but to me it looks like it needs a grill.

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## The_Rural_Juror

> I have seen a few model 3 in pics as well as real life and while they look decent, that front end with no grill really just doesn't do it for me. Maybe I am getting old but to me it looks like it needs a grill.



I like the clean look as opposed to the BMW 7 series grin.

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## Homerrca

Its just that one section that looks out of place to me. It looks a little bit like a fish. I am sure someone will come out with a kit to change the front end or Tesla might make adjustments (like all car manufactures) down the road.

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## pheoxs

> Its just that one section that looks out of place to me. It looks a little bit like a fish. I am sure someone will come out with a kit to change the front end or Tesla might make adjustments (like all car manufactures) down the road.



I'm surprised they don't just paint/wrap that section a different color. Like I guess they want their cars to look unique but .... it just looks weird

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## Super_Geo

> You sir are an inspiration to us all.






> Congrats on the mini lottery!



Thanks guys  :Big Grin:  Would've sucked so hard if it went down the repair route, instead of the $17k bonus and 2 weeks of a 911 rental route  :Wink: 





> Edit: nevermind. All Model 3s seem to have gone up $1k overnight. Am I reading it right?



Wonder if the $5k fed incentive still applies... I thought the cut off was $55k, which was why the SR+ was 54,900?
Maybe Tesla had enough of the SR+ cannibalizing sales of the LR AWD and Performance. It's the same driving experience for 90% of the time, but I mean obviously the last 10% of scenarios when you are shredding someone at the lights or overtaking like a supercar in the Performance is an utterly different experience vs 'a slightly faster 3 series' in the SR+!

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## LLLimit

> Its just that one section that looks out of place to me. It looks a little bit like a fish. I am sure someone will come out with a kit to change the front end or Tesla might make adjustments (like all car manufactures) down the road.

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## Brent.ff

> In fact, I did Calgary > Vancouver in 1 day (supercharged in Golden, Revy, Cranbrook, Hope)



What monster goes to Cranbrook after Revvy?

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## Kobe

I've been thinking about purchasing one, it seems like the best choice (not looking at price)

But do people have problems with charging ever if they don't have a garage? This seems like my biggest concern, and then yah the cold weather as well and lower battery life I never did think about before. 

I don't want to plug it into the power overnight and have it sitting outside, i'm scared the power will get stolen and I'm assuming it's not that cheap (how much does 1 of those cost?)

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## rage2

> What monster goes to Cranbrook after Revvy?



Pretty sure he meant Kamloops haha.

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## Xtrema

> I've been thinking about purchasing one, it seems like the best choice (not looking at price)
> 
> But do people have problems with charging ever if they don't have a garage? This seems like my biggest concern, and then yah the cold weather as well and lower battery life I never did think about before. 
> 
> I don't want to plug it into the power overnight and have it sitting outside, i'm scared the power will get stolen and I'm assuming it's not that cheap (how much does 1 of those cost?)



Remember that while you could charge EV on 110v/15a circuit, you still want to charge them with a more efficient 220v/50a outlet.

120v/15a can only top up at 1.4kw/h If people are using 300wh/km in winter and 40km round trip, you are looking it 12kw per day. You will need to charge your car for 10hr per day at that rate just to cover that range. And this doesn't even count the burn rate to keep battery above 0c for charging.

Unless you live exclusively on supercharging, a garage is a must for EV in Calgary.

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## ExtraSlow

Probably a 30A home charger in a heated garage would work fine.

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## mo_money2supe

> I've been thinking about purchasing one, it seems like the best choice (not looking at price)
> 
> But do people have problems with charging ever if they don't have a garage? This seems like my biggest concern, and then yah the cold weather as well and lower battery life I never did think about before. 
> 
> I don't want to plug it into the power overnight and have it sitting outside, i'm scared the power will get stolen and I'm assuming it's not that cheap (how much does 1 of those cost?)



Even if someone tried to steal electricity from you, that's what, a whole whopping $1/day they'd freeload from you? I average only about $40/month in electricity costs charging mine.

If anyone tried to steal the charger itself, then they either don't know what a live 240V load does to their system or they REALLY know what they're doing, in which case, why steal a $600 charging unit?


For those who don't like the fish-chin look of the front, I present to you the following:


OR, you can be modest and go with a new front fascia (I actually quite like this one, just can't justify the price):
https://unpluggedperformance.com/pro...ascia-model-3/

Or a front lip spoiler:
https://www.rpmtesla.com/collections...nt-lip-spoiler

Or just a cheapo front vinyl:
https://www.rpmtesla.com/collections...39-with-20-off

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## The_Rural_Juror

Xtrema Maths!  :Smilie: 

That's actually quite accurate. Some parking places downtown offer free charging. Usually at 220v 48a, but have seen an 80a charger. I did some quick marthing. The 220v/48a is probably 10-15% more efficient than 120v. 

Kobe. The charger is just under $400 each, but they are locked to the car while it is charging. You can get by without a garage but it would be a pain if it's not at least covered.

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## mo_money2supe

> I would use mo_money's referral code as well, even though he doesn't need the supercharger miles, purely for the Netflix N Chill fun. 
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Pssshh...'03s acting like they own this joint.



 :Love:  :Pooosie: 





> Dilemma, I have delivery scheduled for Friday. But I want these wheels. 
> 
> https://electrek.co/2019/10/17/tesla...rmance-wheels/
> 
> Edit: nevermind. All Model 3s seem to have gone up $1k overnight. Am I reading it right?



From what I've been reading on the Tesla forums (man, do I actually do any work around here?? Yes, Mr. Caraba, I know you're reading this post too - get back to work dude!), the $1k extra INCLUDES freight, so the price hasn't technically changed. I could be wrong though...

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## mo_money2supe

> Kobe. The charger is just under $400 each, but they are locked to the car while it is charging. You can get by without a garage but it would be a pain if it's not at least covered.



The HPWC is $500 *USD* or some $630 CAD depending on the day's exchange rate...

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## The_Rural_Juror

> The HPWC is $500 *USD* or some $630 CAD depending on the day's exchange rate...



Most people won't need the HPWC. Plus if I recall correctly, the advantage is only like an extra 8a (against gen 1 mobile) vs loss of portability.

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## pheoxs

Charge rates if anyone is curious

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## rage2

Here's the range bible that I've been using to figure out if Tesla works for me for my family road trips through the year.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TroyTesli...20763955396608

I sent that to Super_Geo to try to convince him into a Performance, but instead he realized the MR works fine, just more charging on trips.

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## RX_EVOLV

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question...but is a Tesla with considering if its permanently parked outside? Can I run a cable to charge outside at -30C consistantly ?

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## benyl

> Most people won't need the HPWC. Plus if I recall correctly, the advantage is only like an extra 8a (against gen 1 mobile) vs loss of portability.



The cost to wire a 14-50 range plug with 50A breaker for the portable charger should be similar to the HPWC. You need to invest $50ish for the 14-50 adapter for the portable charger. https://shop.tesla.com/en_ca/product...-nema-adapters

It's a 16A difference. The portable charger has a max 32A charge. HPWC goes to 48A.

- - - Updated - - -




> I'm sorry if this is a stupid question...but is a Tesla with considering if its permanently parked outside? Can I run a cable to charge outside at -30C consistantly ?



yep, lots of people do that.

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## finboy

They need to make a model 3 wagon (not cute-Ute model y)

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## LilDrunkenSmurf

Does anyone drive the SR/RWD in Calgary year round? Have you had any issues in the snow/ice/cold? That would be the biggest reason I would consider an LR.

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## Kobe

> Remember that while you could charge EV on 110v/15a circuit, you still want to charge them with a more efficient 220v/50a outlet.
> 
> 120v/15a can only top up at 1.4kw/h If people are using 300wh/km in winter and 40km round trip, you are looking it 12kw per day. You will need to charge your car for 10hr per day at that rate just to cover that range. And this doesn't even count the burn rate to keep battery above 0c for charging.
> 
> Unless you live exclusively on supercharging, a garage is a must for EV in Calgary.




Ya this is what i don't like, I wouldn't be driving the car daily but I also don't want to go charge it because of the cold winters. Seems like a good idea on paper but also not to purchase a tesla not having a garage in Calgary to park it. I hope they solve this issue in the future that the battery won't be draining from the cold like it does or the length it takes to charge.  :Frown:

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## mo_money2supe

> Here's the range bible that I've been using to figure out if Tesla works for me for my family road trips through the year.
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/TroyTesli...20763955396608
> 
> I sent that to Super_Geo to try to convince him into a Performance, but instead he realized the MR works fine, just more charging on trips.



Try using this site to plan your road trips. Easier to work with using real life variables, including elevation and weather changes throughout the trip.
www.abetterrouteplanner.com





> Ya this is what i don't like, I wouldn't be driving the car daily but I also don't want to go charge it because of the cold winters. Seems like a good idea on paper but also not to purchase a tesla not having a garage in Calgary to park it. I hope they solve this issue in the future that the battery won't be draining from the cold like it does or the length it takes to charge.



The cost to install a NEMA 14-50 plug (charger comes with the car, just need to buy a plug for $30) is some $200. If you fancy the Tesla wall unit, add another $600ish to that. How much do you spend on gas a month currently? I spent $300/mth on my old S4 (used Petro-94 due to the stage 2 tune), compared to the Tesla @ $40/mth. Within no time at all, the electrical upgrades to your house are already paid for. Xtrema's example is only if you used your current 120V/12A (1.44kW) plugs at home. Getting a let's say 240V/40A (9.6kW) setup with the NEMA 14-50 plug will net you over 6x the charging speed. Upgrading to the Tesla wall unit can up that speed to 240V/48A (11.52kW), which is 8x faster than your standard plug! The jist of it is, upgrade your electrical and winter is no issue whatsoever for even the SR, even if your car stays parked outside all winter.

----------


## Xtrema

> Xtrema's example is only if you used your current 120V/12A (1.44kW) plugs at home. Getting a let's say 240V/40A (9.6kW) setup with the NEMA 14-50 plug will net you over 6x the charging speed. Upgrading to the Tesla wall unit can up that speed to 240V/48A (11.52kW), which is 8x faster than your standard plug! The jist of it is, upgrade your electrical and winter is no issue whatsoever for even the SR, even if your car stays parked outside all winter.



I am just using what's the norm whenever someone say they park outside or have no access to a garage.

Also, I'm also not sure if out much it would cost for an outdoor rated NEMA 14-50 plug would be, but my guess is it would be more than $200 since you probably have to run longer wire from panel and the plug will have to be weather proofed.

----------


## LLLimit

Biggest cost is the wire: 6/3 with a ground, covered wire. 
Home Depot is running ~$13/meter when I looked last week, or 
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000HEHCMS/...v_ov_lig_dp_it
No need for conduit or armor when running through studs. Location of your main panel to your future receptacle determines this cost.

I can do it myself (probably), but I don't know what the CoC electrical permitting process is like or if they need to see a residential load calculation, etc etc. 
The rest of the materials isn't too bad for an interior garage install: 
-$30, 50amp 2pole breaker
-$15, outlet box
-$15, 14-50 receptacle
-$10, wall plate
-misc. clamps and consumables.

Armored cable is a completely different cost all together in the event you have to run a trench into a detached garage
If doing an exterior outlet, might as well have a lockbox you can coil your charging cable in.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> I am just using what's the norm whenever someone say they park outside or have no access to a garage.
> 
> Also, I'm also not sure if out much it would cost for an outdoor rated NEMA 14-50 plug would be, but my guess is it would be more than $200 since you probably have to run longer wire from panel and the plug will have to be weather proofed.



The costs that LLLimit listed are pretty standard industry prices. AWG 6/3 cu wire is already weather proof, but code does require PVC conduit for the outdoor exposed areas, which is maybe $1/ft. Most newer homes built in the 21st century have their panels directly in the basement near the front door, so the wiring length to get it outside will be pretty minimal. I priced out just material costs for a NEMA 14-50 for my house (into the garage though) at only $150, except I went with the HPWC option instead, so add the $630 for the wall unit, less the costs of the 14-50 receptacle. So add in the exterior lockbox (for a typical 21st century home w/o garage) and yes, I do believe it will be around $200. Add CoC permitting fees (~$150) if you care for insurance coverage and/or labour if you can't figure out how to drill a hole through a foundation wall.





> I can do it myself (probably), but I don't know what the CoC electrical permitting process is like or if they need to see a residential load calculation, etc etc.



The CoC permitting process is fairly easy if you're installing it yourself. What you need is a Homeowner Electrical Permit for ~$150 from the City: https://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Pages/...s-permits.aspx
There will be 1-2 inspections and you will only require a residential load calc if you are running more than a 40A breaker on a 100A panel, which would then also likely require a disconnect switch. Most new builds will have a 200A panel though...

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

I am going to lose 20k supercharger miles soon...urgh.

----------


## Super_Geo

Crazy, in the past couple days the SR+ went up by $1000 and the range went from 386km to 402km (240mi to 250mi for the US version).
Not sure if they upped the battery pack from 54kWh, or software efficiency gains, or just a different EPA/measurement methodology?

----------


## heavyD

The range anxiety (I'm one of those people that gets antsy when my tank drops below 1/4) isn't worth it for me and having to plan holidays around charging stations seems counterintuitive to vacationing and relaxing. I'm perfectly happy to enjoy the golden age of ICE vehicles until rages improve and we have the proper infrastructure.

----------


## benyl

Infrastructure is being built everyday. Petro Canada stations are getting L2 chargers in many locations. I can charge at work, so I'm not worried. We will keep one ICE car for travel to places without adequate infrastructure.

----------


## flipstah

> Here's a quick summary of the "three" Model 3's that qualifies for the federal incentive:
> $44,999+GST | "Under the table/order in store" | SR (not +) | software limited to 150km range
> ~$50,000+GST | SR (again, not +) | 385km range | no premium interior (no upgraded stereo, no LTE data, no rear heated seats, etc)
> $54,999+GST | SR+ | 385km range | premium interior (see above)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know if you want a drive in mine. I'm open to letting anyone driving the car to show it's performance abilities. Forget the whole Greta sustainability hipster idea with EVs; it's the surprising performance out of these cars that gets me out of bed every morning!
> ...



If you can, please do. Would love to read more about it! 

My main concern is the lifespan of the battery and the replacement costs of it. I'd assume it's the same cost as an engine replacement? The Petro Canada announcement made my other travel worry not a worry.

----------


## pheoxs

> If you can, please do. Would love to read more about it! 
> 
> My main concern is the lifespan of the battery and the replacement costs of it. I'd assume it's the same cost as an engine replacement? The Petro Canada announcement made my other travel worry not a worry.



The battery comes with a 8 year, 160k warranty that says it’ll have at least 70% retention of capacity so that shouldn’t really be a worry

----------


## mo_money2supe

> If you can, please do. Would love to read more about it! 
> 
> My main concern is the lifespan of the battery and the replacement costs of it. I'd assume it's the same cost as an engine replacement? The Petro Canada announcement made my other travel worry not a worry.



Watch the video from the OP in this thread and read the entire thread (warning: grab a strong cup of joe to keep you awake!). Most of your questions/concerns will be answered in this one thread alone.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...lained.153074/

But to answer directly your comment about replacement costs, back in 2012 when the S first came out, rumour was that battery replacements would be in the magnitude of $40k USD or more! Six years later when the Model 3 came out, the S's actual battery replacements were more like $20k USD. Keep in mind that by this time, the S's were still under the 8 yr warranty period. Rumour moving forward is, by the time the 2018 Model 3 battery's 8 yr warranty period is over, the batteries will be closer to $5k USD. Time will tell but I can accept those numbers. Besides, just 'cause a battery has degradation in that time period does not make it non-useable. One can always repurpose the EV's batteries for home power storage (eg. storing electrons from a solar panel for example) because the house's power storage would never require the full 100% capacity at any given point since it will always be "charging" via solar anyway. That said, I have no intention of getting solar anytime soon so that home storage benefit may not actually be a benefit to me (at least not at this current point in time).

----------


## Super_Geo

One thing to keep in mind is that battery costs are falling rapidly year over year. 
In 5-7 years if you need to replace your battery pack, you can throw something with more capacity and cheaper than it costs today.
I think that's what makes Tesla's warranty on them pretty genius, actually. 

Also, Tesla's recent battery acquisitions are rolling out a 1million mile battery design.

----------


## rage2

> One thing to keep in mind is that battery costs are falling rapidly year over year. 
> In 5-7 years if you need to replace your battery pack, you can throw something with more capacity and cheaper than it costs today.
> I think that's what makes Tesla's warranty on them pretty genius, actually.



Go ask a Roadster owner if that's true. Or if Tesla will even make it for them.

Regardless it's a moot point, the battery degradation is pretty minimal compared to the life of an ICE car anyways. The only concern with battery is progress, and depreciation because of it. You're buying leading edge shit right now.

----------


## dj_rice

https://globalnews.ca/news/6052028/e...sla-vandalism/

Dumbass turned himself in. Austin Grabas 20. 
The 20-year-old said he had been cut off Friday night by a black sedan and, when he saw Leung’s black vehicle Saturday, he thought it was the same vehicle.

I don't believe his BS story. If there was no cameras recording him, he wouldn't have turned himself in. Not to mention the owner of the vehicle works for Global News so that helped getting the word out.

----------


## benyl

Picked up today. Only got to drive it 3kms before dropping it off at Shadow Tinting for Saran Wrap. 



Kids like the car more than me. 

Found some paint defects.

----------


## benyl

Getting them to fix it.

----------


## shakalaka

^Congrats! Looks great.

----------


## KPHMPH

Shawdow? Boooo, should have went to Ultimate Auto Protection!

----------


## never

It’d be better with grey wheels!

 :Wink:

----------


## ExtraSlow

Looks fun 
@benyl
. Enjoy the shit out of it.

----------


## heavyD

White interior with kids. You are a brave man.

----------


## benyl

Daughter spilt hot chocolate even before we pulled out. Hahahaha

----------


## shakalaka

> Daughter spilt hot chocolate even before we pulled out. Hahahaha



My kid would get disowned right there. lol.

----------


## dj_rice

> Daughter spilt hot chocolate even before we pulled out. Hahahaha



LOL take it to Detailed Solutions, they can Ceramic coat your interior

----------


## 01RedDX

.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Congrats Benyl! Looks great! What were they fixing? The white interior is apparently quite stain resistant. Shadow Tint did a great job with mine! They're effin' great!

Thanks for the heads up, 01RedDX. 

I looked at Enmax for solar a few months ago. Even with unobstructed south facing panels, the efficiencies were poor and payback period was about 13 years (not counting maintenance and degradation).

----------


## benyl

> Enmax covering up to 75% of home EV charger installation.
> 
> https://www.enmax.com/ev?utm_content...ource=facebook
> 
> Limited time program, home owners only.



Yeah, signed up for it.

- - - Updated - - -




> LOL take it to Detailed Solutions, they can Ceramic coat your interior



It’s vegan leather.  :dunno: 

Would Greta approve?

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Your vehicle runs on coal. Therefore Greta hates you.

----------


## benyl

Making Canadian Coal Greta again.

Oops, did I typo that?  :dunno:

----------


## Super_Geo

> Enmax covering up to 75% of home EV charger installation.
> 
> https://www.enmax.com/ev?utm_content...ource=facebook
> 
> Limited time program, home owners only.



Awesome! Thanks for sharing, signing up!

----------


## Super_Geo

Interesting points on the Enmax subsidy:




> 1. Participation in the ENMAX Charge Up Pilot Program is determined on a first‐come, first‐served basis within each city 
> quadrant (SW, SE, NW, NE). If all the spots in the ENMAX Charge Up Pilot Program are full, new applicants will be placed on 
> the wait list and will be added to the ENMAX Charge Up Pilot Program on a first‐come, first‐served basis if additional spots 
> become open. ENMAX aims to award an even number of Reimbursements in each city quadrant but reserves the right to 
> award spots in any city quadrant based on demand.
> 
> 3. Participant must purchase an Electric Vehicle Charger from Participant’s choice of one of ENMAX’s qualified vendors and 
> supply ENMAX with proof of purchase. The qualified Electric Vehicle Charger models will be supplied to Applicant at the 
> time of enrollment and Participant will purchase one of the qualified Electric Vehicle Chargers from one of the following 
> ...



So they're essentially funding a pilot study. Get a bunch of these out there, they get access to all of your charging patterns, and then can use that data to prepare for the ramp up of EVs in years to come.

----------


## mo_money2supe

Congrats on the the delivery Benyl - you'll love it! Just be sure to pick up some winters right away as those PS4S tires are literally pucks on ice. That first snow dump we had in Oct. 2018 caught me off guard and within some 3 weeks of ownership, I ripped off the front lip on mine sliding into a snow drift pile.  :facepalm:

----------


## benyl

Does the current standard auto-pilot have lane change? Or is that only in FSD with NOA?

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Does the current standard auto-pilot have lane change? Or is that only in FSD with NOA?



Only the old "Enhanced Auto Pilot" (EAP) came with lane change when on NOA; not so with the new basic "Auto Pilot" (AP). I have the old EAP and I personally don't find the NOA all that useful, unless that is, I were in the States driving on an unknown Interstate. Besides, NOA is only functional when you have a destination selected anyway so most of them time when on (E)AP, it's never in use.

----------


## rage2

> Does the current standard auto-pilot have lane change? Or is that only in FSD with NOA?



It doesn't. That comes with FSD. It's a party trick anyways, I've completely stopped using mine.

----------


## benyl

Progress pics. Theyve moved so fast that I missed most of it.

----------


## Jlude

Looks good - how is the paint?

----------


## benyl

Only 1 speck of dirt in the paint they’ve found so far. Above the metal model 3 door sill on the drivers side. Otherwise better than most of the Teslas they have had come through. Guess I got lucky.

----------


## killramos

Matte helps a bunch with that car. Especially on the white.

----------


## Jlude

> Only 1 speck of dirt in the paint they’ve found so far. Above the metal model 3 door sill on the drivers side. Otherwise better than most of the Teslas they have had come through. Guess I got lucky.



I think the paint quality is just hit or miss, mine was really good and the fit was surprisingly good. Did you end up getting a upgraded charging setup done at home?

----------


## benyl

Nope. We are thinking of moving. 

I can charge at work. 110v at home, plus supercharger, ikea, chinook, and other places will make up the difference.

----------


## rage2

> Nope. We are thinking of moving. 
> 
> I can charge at work. 110v at home, plus supercharger, ikea, chinook, and other places will make up the difference.



Asian genetics is strong. lol @ 110v. Good luck with that.

----------


## pheoxs

> lol @ 110v. Good luck with that.



Even [email protected] would be decent. You get what, 5-8 km per hour of charge. For a typical workday commute that should be lots. 10 hours of charging gets 50-80kms. I'd bet very few people in Calgary have that as a commute round trip (ignoring all the airdrie/cochrane/okotoks peeps). Enough to make it through the week and then hit a supercharger to top it up on the weekend maybe. Not great but it's doable with some small life adjustments.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Asian genetics is strong. lol @ 110v. Good luck with that.



Have to pay at Chinook now.  :Frown:

----------


## rage2

> Even [email protected] would be decent. You get what, 5-8 km per hour of charge. For a typical workday commute that should be lots. 10 hours of charging gets 50-80kms. I'd bet very few people in Calgary have that as a commute round trip (ignoring all the airdrie/cochrane/okotoks peeps). Enough to make it through the week and then hit a supercharger to top it up on the weekend maybe. Not great but it's doable with some small life adjustments.



I know benyl's commute. That won't work, especially in winter. But if he gets free charging at work it might be OK, depending on how cold it is outside as it's not (AFAIK) a heated lot.

----------


## dimi

If the car is plugged in @ 110V, and you preheat the battery/car, will it drain the battery or just stop charging periodically?

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> If the car is plugged in @ 110V, and you preheat the battery/car, will it drain the battery or just stop charging periodically?



I found them to be about even with the interior heater on. The heater doesn't need to be on for long though.

----------


## pheoxs

> I know benyl's commute. That won't work, especially in winter. But if he gets free charging at work it might be OK, depending on how cold it is outside as it's not (AFAIK) a heated lot.



Obvious answer is buy 2 Teslas and leave one on the charger. Works for my cordless drill.

----------


## Super_Geo

> Obvious answer is buy 2 Teslas and leave one on the charger. Works for my cordless drill.



 :ROFL!:  :ROFL!:

----------


## Jlude

> Asian genetics is strong. lol @ 110v. Good luck with that.



I charged in my condo parking garage with 110v for a short time, it was brutal. I have a 240v50a plug now in stead and it's usually charging 34-37 klms per hour. 




> If the car is plugged in @ 110V, and you preheat the battery/car, will it drain the battery or just stop charging periodically?



I believe it will continue to charge. If your battery is full (to your set limit) and it's plugged in, it will not constantly charge, it will let the battery go down a little bit before it starts charging again. I routinely leave my car sitting and plugged in for a month at a time, that's been my experience.

----------


## benyl



----------


## benyl

With the way I drive, I think I am going to get 1/2 of the rated range. Winter will be 1/4. Maybe I need 220V. Haha

----------


## HiSpec

^
Did you use a matte PPF?

----------


## KPHMPH

> With the way I drive, I think I am going to get 1/2 of the rated range. Winter will be 1/4.




Let me know how that Matt gets dirty! I really want to rip off the clear protective and do full Matt on the x.

----------


## Skyline_Addict

Good thread. Thinking about a used Model S myself...

Nice to hear about the rebate from enmax! Car looks good, Benyl.

----------


## rage2

> Let me know how that Matt gets dirty! I really want to rip off the clear protective and do full Matt on the x.



Matte is the easiest film to clean. Because of lack of reflections, you barely see waterspots. It's the lowest maintenance I've had, car always looked good. That said, it doesn't look good on all cars, needs sharp angles to make it work.




> With the way I drive, I think I am going to get 1/2 of the rated range. Winter will be 1/4. Maybe I need 220V. Haha



 :ROFL!:

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Next car for me will be matte for sure.
I received a reply from Enmax that I am on the wait list. That sure filled up quickly.

----------


## benyl

> Next car for me will be matte for sure.
> I received a reply from Enmax that I am on the wait list. That sure filled up quickly.



I'm on the wait list for the SW. Wonder what the wait list is like in the other quadrants.

----------


## LLLimit

No reply from Enmax in NW.

Nice to see another debadged 3.
My wife got ticked when I had it removed.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> I'm on the wait list for the SW. Wonder what the wait list is like in the other quadrants.



I think I registered the day before you and I received my wait list email at 3:30 yesterday.

----------


## dibbz

Side question: Has anyone had any success installing a charger in their condo parkade? I approached my condo board about it, and they replied that the difficulty is how to charge the usage back to the unit. Wouldn't that just mean you have to install another meter at your charging station?

----------


## Super_Geo

> I think I registered the day before you and I received my wait list email at 3:30 yesterday.



Registered Oct 19th, just got wait list email today.

----------


## Disoblige

Lol. Is it weird that sentry mode is the tipping point that makes me want to buy a Tesla soon?

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Lol. Is it weird that sentry mode is the tipping point that makes me want to buy a Tesla soon?



What was your other alternative?

----------


## rage2

> Lol. Is it weird that sentry mode is the tipping point that makes me want to buy a Tesla soon?



Yes haha.

----------


## benyl

I got 3 days on the P4Ss on cold pavement. 

Winter mode. Needs a drop.

----------


## Jlude

> Side question: Has anyone had any success installing a charger in their condo parkade? I approached my condo board about it, and they replied that the difficulty is how to charge the usage back to the unit. Wouldn't that just mean you have to install another meter at your charging station?



I went through the same issue with my condo board. I first requested to run power to my parking stalls from the breaker, but they insisted that if I would require this, then they would need to install additional breakers to accomodate any other owners who might wanted to run power to their parking spot. 

Depending on the power company, you may or may not be allowed to sub-meter within the building. In Manitoba, you can't actually install a sub-meter because Manitoba Hydro and bylaws, or something along those lines. I basically ran the car for 3 months and informed the condo board that based on my average power usage per kilometer, the average user should be charged roughly $20-25/month based on driving 15,000 kilometers per year.

----------


## flipstah

> Obvious answer is buy 2 Teslas and leave one on the charger. Works for my cordless drill.



that made me lol

I was also curious how winter outdoor charging will be affected

----------


## JRSC00LUDE

> Nice to see another debadged 3.
> My wife got ticked when I had it removed.




What's the point of having a Tesla if everyone can't be 100% sure you have a Tesla? haha  :Wink: 


On another note, and it's just my opinion/not a shot at anyone who has one, I still can't get behind the visuals - they look like a cartoon to me.

----------


## LLLimit

I noticed the hood PPF cutout was off centered on a few cars. I know it's an installer quality & attention problem but it's enough reason for me to remove it.
Also no place for the dirt to accumulate in the badge nook & crannies.


One of the badges I won't remove, because it removes itself.

----------


## pheoxs

> I went through the same issue with my condo board. I first requested to run power to my parking stalls from the breaker, but they insisted that if I would require this, then they would need to install additional breakers to accomodate any other owners who might wanted to run power to their parking spot. 
> 
> Depending on the power company, you may or may not be allowed to sub-meter within the building. In Manitoba, you can't actually install a sub-meter because Manitoba Hydro and bylaws, or something along those lines. I basically ran the car for 3 months and informed the condo board that based on my average power usage per kilometer, the average user should be charged roughly $20-25/month based on driving 15,000 kilometers per year.



Honestly .... seems like a good business opportunities for condos. Just charge people a flat rate 50$ a month to cover electricity costs and maintenance (in addition to the install fee) and then it's extra $ the condo can have for their reserve fund.

----------


## Disoblige

I got an idea for condos/apartments, but not sure how profitable it could be or if someone does this already.

Basically you have charging stations but it's based on a card/fob system. So when you plug in to charge your car, you tap the FOB to begin charging. That way, it knows who the charge the amount to. Then every month, it just gets deducted from your account in addition to your condo fees, etc.

This way, it is a shared system with a fair payment system and those who want to participate will put up a one time upfront cost to be in the program.
Does that sound like a good idea? The only issue is that it only works successfully if there is a large amount of people participating initially. I guess extra spots could be "reserved" for expansion. And parking would need to be non-titled too I guess.

----------


## pheoxs

> I got an idea for condos, but not sure how profitable it could be or if someone does this already.
> 
> Basically you have charging stations in the condo but it's based on a card/fob system. So when you plug in to charge your car, you tap the FOB to begin charging. That way, it knows who the charge the amount to. Then every month, it just gets deducted from your account in addition to your condo fees, etc.
> 
> This way, it is a shared system with a fair payment system and those who want to participate will put up a one time upfront cost to be in the program.
> Does that sound like a good idea to most of you guys in condos?



Only issue I'd see is how do you ensure people don't just park there forever. Like you get home from work and toss your car on the charger and then no one else can use it unless you come down and move it.

Some condos downtown charge 100-200 a month for a parking spot. This would be hard to enforce people to actually share would be my concern.

Although if you wanna get fancy it could use an APP that messages you your car is done and it needs to be moved

----------


## Disoblige

> Only issue I'd see is how do you ensure people don't just park there forever. Like you get home from work and toss your car on the charger and then no one else can use it unless you come down and move it.
> 
> Some condos downtown charge 100-200 a month for a parking spot. This would be hard to enforce people to actually share would be my concern.
> 
> Although if you wanna get fancy it could use an APP that messages you your car is done and it needs to be moved



There will be a light that says it is done as a local visual indicator. And high-rise condos usually have security or concierge to check around on rounds. Repeat offenders are going to be fined. If on an app, condo staff could also be an "admin" on the app as well to see how long someone stayed dormant there and get an alert. If the app is smart enough, admins could also message users straight from the app.

Oh man, this idea is starting to get more detailed!  :Big Grin: 
Semi-serious on this idea now hahaha.

----------


## Xtrema

> Honestly .... seems like a good business opportunities for condos. Just charge people a flat rate 50$ a month to cover electricity costs and maintenance (in addition to the install fee) and then it's extra $ the condo can have for their reserve fund.



Nah. The capital is too intensive up front. At average $10K per spot, ROI is too low at $50.

I think the easiest way is partner with Electrify Canada or some providers and convert visitor parking for L3 charging purpose. Charges/payment system will be covered by them. And anyone not paying per min charges at those spots get towed. 

Bringing NEMA 14-50 to every spot while planning everybody will be charging at night is just way too expensive to accommodate.

----------


## benyl

> Nah. The capital is too intensive up front. At average $10K per spot, ROI is too low at $50.
> 
> I think the easiest way is partner with Electrify Canada or some providers and convert visitor parking for L3 charging purpose. Charges/payment system will be covered by them. And anyone not paying per min charges at those spots get towed. 
> 
> Bringing NEMA 14-50 to every spot while planning everybody will be charging at night is just way too expensive to accommodate.



The expensive part of NEMA 14-50 is the cable (6/3) and the 50A breaker. The plug itself is $5. Long cable runs in a parking garage are going to make it cost prohibitive.

----------


## benyl

Shitty wipers or shitty fluid? I dont get why Th e fluid only comes out at the bottom of the stroke. Might work in California, but not here.

----------


## Jlude

Maybe the fluid? My S has some of the best wipers I have had on a vehicle, I would assume they 3 would be similar.

----------


## KPHMPH

> The expensive part of NEMA 14-50 is the cable (6/3) and the 50A breaker. The plug itself is $5. Long cable runs in a parking garage are going to make it cost prohibitive.



A 50amp breaker is 12$ and cable is roughly $2.50 / foot....

----------


## benyl

> A 50amp breaker is 12$ and cable is roughly $2.50 / foot....



Where? I need one of these:
https://www.lowes.ca/product/circuit...EaAtKsEALw_wcB

- - - Updated - - -




> Maybe the fluid? My S has some of the best wipers I have had on a vehicle, I would assume they 3 would be similar.



The S wipers are off the MB SL. German engineering. Model 3 isn’t the same.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

No issues with my wipers. I think they are on par with whatever BMW uses.

----------


## KPHMPH

> Where? I need one of these:
> https://www.lowes.ca/product/circuit...EaAtKsEALw_wcB
> 
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> The S wipers are off the MB SL. German engineering. Model 3 isn’t the same.




Eecol Electric. Calgary there is one on the south side. Edmonton there is one one on the west side.

----------


## Skyline_Addict



----------


## danno

Not sure what your guys plan is with the car long term but I’ve been debating it for a little while now. What’s the long term value of the car, will it depreciate faster or slower than a similar car in that price range??? 

Better to lease or buy?? I was planning a electric car in the next 5-10 years but I’m considering bumping it up sooner.

----------


## snowcat

> Not sure what your guys plan is with the car long term but I’ve been debating it for a little while now. What’s the long term value of the car, will it depreciate faster or slower than a similar car in that price range??? 
> 
> Better to lease or buy?? I was planning a electric car in the next 5-10 years but I’m considering bumping it up sooner.



No leasing at Tesla, cash or finance.

----------


## killramos

> No leasing at Tesla, cash or finance.



Lolwut 

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/support/tesla-leasing

----------


## benyl

> Lolwut 
> 
> https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/support/tesla-leasing



No Model 3 leasing. Us poor folk who should be using Android phones don’t get the option.

I think the model 3 is holding it’s value well, especially the cheaper versions. I don’t know how long that will last though.

----------


## Maxt

I've been behind a few teslas on Deerfoot, and they look like they are porpoising on the choppy sections, similar to a car like a civic or 240 on coilovers. Is the ride and suspension that stiff?

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> I've been behind a few teslas on Deerfoot, and they look like they are porpoising on the choppy sections, similar to a car like a civic or 240 on coilovers. Is the ride and suspension that stiff?



Wouldn't call it stiff by any means. I wonder if it is because of the heavy battery. The car is something like 4000lbs. Best is to test drive one. The sales people aren't really sales people so they let you go once you are done. No pressure at all and they book appointments in one hour time slots.

----------


## benyl

Finally got upgraded to V10 last night. I was hoping it would be the latest version with more power and 1 pedal driving. Ended up with 2019.32.12.4. YouTube works.

----------


## pheoxs

> Lolwut 
> 
> https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/support/tesla-leasing



Damn those numbers are rough.

101,000$ Model S, for 36 months you pay 65,500$ (plus sales tax still) for 16,000km/year

----------


## killramos

No one said saving the world would be cheap

----------


## Xtrema

> Not sure what your guys plan is with the car long term but I’ve been debating it for a little while now. What’s the long term value of the car, will it depreciate faster or slower than a similar car in that price range??? 
> 
> Better to lease or buy?? I was planning a electric car in the next 5-10 years but I’m considering bumping it up sooner.



As compelling as Model 3 Performance is, I decided to do 1 more round on ICE and re-evaluate in ~3 years hoping the scene is more competitive and more options by then.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

The idea of an EV is growing on me but it’s not the Teslas that are doing it. I’d be more inclined if I liked their exterior design more. I spend about $5000/year on fuel for my personal daily driver, $1000-1500 on the summer car, and $10000ish on company vehicles.

----------


## rage2

> The idea of an EV is growing on me but it’s not the Teslas that are doing it. I’d be more inclined if I liked their exterior design more. I spend about $5000/year on fuel for my personal daily driver, $1000-1500 on the summer car, and $10000ish on company vehicles.



 
@benyl
 had his math make sense to get shitty ROI on his last vehicle by selling his 1 year old expedition and move to a Model 3. His fuel costs was similar to yours. I did the math on my side, and didn't even realize my fuel costs are so cheap. I'm averaging 10L/100km and $130-150/month in fuel costs. Not worth swapping so soon, but probably next look is in 2 or so years, before warranty runs out on the E53.

----------


## Super_Geo

Yeah, longer term maintenance should be cheaper as well:
- cabin filters
- tire rotation/alignment
- brake fluid
- air conditioning service

... and that's it, I think.
Porsche in SF wanted $390 USD to change the oil on the Macan  :ROFL!:

----------


## ExtraSlow

Wait, why would tire rotation or alignment costs be different?

----------


## Super_Geo

> Wait, why would tire rotation or alignment costs be different?



Not saying it’s cheaper, just saying that the list above is the entire maintenance schedule.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Ah, I misunderstood.

----------


## snowcat

> Lolwut 
> 
> https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/support/tesla-leasing



Not for model 3, which this thread is mostly about.

----------


## Super_Geo

https://twitter.com/Mike_Eaves_Jr/st...50459032670208

Don't forget to download some more horsepower... free 5% bump  :Love:

----------


## ExtraSlow

Seems Tesla is a new "common vernacular" term for someone having a lot of money to spend. Had a discussion with someone about large bonuses, and they said "if things go the way I'm hoping we'll all be shopping at Tesla next year." Thought that was funny, and the first time I'd heard the brand used in that context. Hope "we all" get huge bonuses and I can see how correct he is about where I'd spend it. Be a good problem to have.

----------


## killramos

Nothing like bragging about being able to afford a domestic!

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> https://twitter.com/Mike_Eaves_Jr/st...50459032670208
> 
> Don't forget to download some more horsepower... free 5% bump



Model S Performance gets 50hp.

----------


## Jlude

I haven't seen my S in 6 months, it's probably covered in dust in the garage and will probably need an entire day of updates.

How does everyone handle updates if you're in a parking garage (condo)? It will push OTA updates if they're important, but I usually end up getting updates after parking at the in-laws house connected to their wifi. I haven't yet figured out a way to get updates pushed sooner OTA. Anyone have suggestions?

----------


## pheoxs

> I haven't seen my S in 6 months, it's probably covered in dust in the garage and will probably need an entire day of updates.
> 
> How does everyone handle updates if you're in a parking garage (condo)? It will push OTA updates if they're important, but I usually end up getting updates after parking at the in-laws house connected to their wifi. I haven't yet figured out a way to get updates pushed sooner OTA. Anyone have suggestions?



Park by a starbucks?  :Burn Out:

----------


## benyl

I have read that people tether their phone to their car. No idea on the size of the updates though.

----------


## Super_Geo

> I haven't seen my S in 6 months, it's probably covered in dust in the garage and will probably need an entire day of updates.
> 
> How does everyone handle updates if you're in a parking garage (condo)? It will push OTA updates if they're important, but I usually end up getting updates after parking at the in-laws house connected to their wifi. I haven't yet figured out a way to get updates pushed sooner OTA. Anyone have suggestions?



Is your battery dead after 6 months?
Take it to the Tesla dealership and have them install all of them there. Or tether it to your phone if you have a shit ton of data cap available. Public wifi is a pain in the ass. Good news is, if you are really far behind theyll push the updates over LTE.

----------


## Jlude

> Park by a starbucks?



I don't have the patience to sit there long enough for it to update. 




> I have read that people tether their phone to their car. No idea on the size of the updates though.



I tried that when I first got the car, it didn't work. Maybe it does now. 




> Is your battery dead after 6 months?
> Take it to the Tesla dealership and have them install all of them there. Or tether it to your phone if you have a shit ton of data cap available. Public wifi is a pain in the ass. Good news is, if you are really far behind they’ll push the updates over LTE.



It's definitely not dead. No dealer in Winterpeg. That is what I have found in the past, that they will push updates when you get really far behind. I seem to always be behind on updates and I assumed it was due to the lack of wifi in my condo building.

----------


## ragu

> I don't have the patience to sit there long enough for it to update. 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried that when I first got the car, it didn't work. Maybe it does now. 
> 
> 
> 
> It's definitely not dead. No dealer in Winterpeg. That is what I have found in the past, that they will push updates when you get really far behind. I seem to always be behind on updates and I assumed it was due to the lack of wifi in my condo building.



Wait. I always thought Teslas came with their own internet a d all? False?

----------


## Jlude

> Wait. I always thought Teslas came with their own internet a d all? False?



The car has it's own LTE network connection. https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/support/...ty?redirect=no

----------


## benyl

I'm curious to see capability. We've been talking about getting a second EV. Either another Model 3, Model Y or this truck. But I bet it won't come until 2022 or later.

----------


## Jlude

Agreed. I think 2022 would be optimistic, maybe Q4 if they're lucky. This is probably the vehicle that I am most curious about, mainly because of the ridiculous descriptions Elon has provided about it, which could have been the point from the get go (to raise interest).

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

It's on blade runner day.

Also. Car is updating to get 5% moar powah and scheduled departure. Wheeeeeeee!

----------


## benyl

Went and bought another Tesla...

----------


## killramos

> Went and bought another Tesla...



I really didn’t think that car could look worse lol

I was proven wrong today.

----------


## speedog

> I really didnt think that car could look worse lol
> 
> I was proven wrong today.



It's the snout, change that by just adding same fake design elements (Chevy Bolt, Volt) and it would be much less odd looking.

----------


## oilerfan4lyfe

Anyone know of a local shop that is able to put an additional subwoofer into a Model 3? It would be a premium model already but a little extra bass would be nice. Searching online it looks like a few shops in BC can do it but I haven’t found anything about Alberta. It might actually be a deal breaker for me on whether or not I buy the car.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Is the stereo really unique somehow? You'd think any quality audio shop could do it.  :dunno:  :dunno:  :dunno:  :dunno:

----------


## oilerfan4lyfe

I think it's an issue with where to tap into power for an amp and doing it properly or shit goes haywire based on what I'm reading.

----------


## rage2

> I think it's an issue with where to tap into power for an amp and doing it properly or shit goes haywire based on what I'm reading.



https://www.travisllado.com/2019/05/...mmary-and.html

You’re welcome. Follow this and you won’t fuck the 12V battery which will leave you stranded.

----------


## supe

> How does everyone handle updates if you're in a parking garage (condo)? It will push OTA updates if they're important, but I usually end up getting updates after parking at the in-laws house connected to their wifi. I haven't yet figured out a way to get updates pushed sooner OTA. Anyone have suggestions?



With one of the newer updates, the car will now tell you when you have an update ready, then you just connect to wifi to download. For wifi you can tether your phone it worked for me while driving on deerfoot, then did the actual update when I got home.

----------


## benyl

> A 50amp breaker is 12$ and cable is roughly $2.50 / foot....






> Eecol Electric. Calgary there is one on the south side. Edmonton there is one one on the west side.



So I went to Eecol yesterday and they quoted me $88 for a 50Amp Stab Lok breaker. $30 more than Lowes (they had 15% off all weekend).

----------


## pheoxs

> So I went to Eecol yesterday and they quoted me $88 for a 50Amp Stab Lok breaker. $30 more than Lowes (they had 15% off all weekend).



Idk how reliable it would be buying from Amazon but it is a Siemens product so should be legitimate. Idk if this is the right style for the breaker panel

https://www.amazon.ca/Siemens-D250-C...189838&sr=8-31

----------


## killramos

> So I went to Eecol yesterday and they quoted me $88 for a 50Amp Stab Lok breaker. $30 more than Lowes (they had 15% off all weekend).



Did you come in wearing coveralls with dirt in your face?

You got the non contractor price.

----------


## arcticcat522

Eecol is more expensive for anything unless you can buy on account that deals with big $$. Even then, they are fairly pricey compared to some other wholesalers.

----------


## KPHMPH

> Idk how reliable it would be buying from Amazon but it is a Siemens product so should be legitimate. Idk if this is the right style for the breaker panel
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/Siemens-D250-C...189838&sr=8-31



Yeah, I got mine for $22 from Eecol, I’m not sure what happened there!

----------


## BerserkerCatSplat

Can we talk about the Cybertruck launch in this thread? Because that was the biggest unmitigated disaster of a live event I have ever seen and the truck is absolutely hideous.

----------


## revelations

^ OK i get elon musk liked blade runner - but thats not aesthetically pleasing in any way

----------


## BerserkerCatSplat

The whole time I thought it was a joke about retrofuturistic designs and they would reveal the real thing at the end. Nope, it's the 2021 Tesla Aztek.

Hell, I'm _still_ not entirely convinced this isn't some kind of elaborate marketing prank.

----------


## Super_Geo

https://twitter.com/PhillyD/status/1...983193089?s=20

Ooohmyfuckinggod!!  :ROFL!:

----------


## Maxt

And useless as a truck when you break away from the standard conventions of bed design.

----------


## speedog

> Can we talk about the Cybertruck launch in this thread? Because that was the biggest unmitigated disaster of a live event I have ever seen and the truck is absolutely hideous.



Worthy of a thread of it's own. Shit, I snorted out some coffee when I saw that thing. So fucking hilarious, I can't wait to see one IRL, it'll be uncontrollable laughter.

----------


## 90_Shelby

I’m much more optimistic, I think Tesla will sell a ton of these trucks, look how many model X and 3 are on the road. Looks never stopped people from buying those.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Half the value of a Tesla "truck" is showing off, and this thing will be great for that. I think it would be a failure if it wasn't a polarizing design.

----------


## FraserB

> I’m much more optimistic, I think Tesla will sell a ton of these trucks, look how many model X and 3 are on the road. Looks never stopped people from buying those.



Were they both utter let downs during their reveals though? Unless they are putting some impressive payload and towing numbers down, I’d say it will be more the guys who want an SUV with once a year bed to haul a tent buying these

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo



----------


## 90_Shelby

> ........ I’d say it will be more the guys who want an SUV with once a year bed to haul a tent buying these



Sounds about right for most pickup truck owners.

----------


## tha_bandit

this design is real??!! holy

----------


## Disoblige

At least now we know that many years later, Arash finally found a job in car design.

----------


## FraserB

> At least now we know that many years later, Arash finally found a job in car design.



You cannot give reputation to the same post twice

----------


## schurchill39

> At least now we know that many years later, Arash finally found a job in car design.



This may be one of my favorite quotes on beyond of all time.

----------


## Agent_Oorange

:ROFL!:   :ROFL!:

----------


## S-FLY

There must be something wrong with my video card because I've been starring at this thread for 5 minutes waiting for the truck to fully render.

----------


## Buster

looks like a Delorean fucked a stealth fighter

----------


## killramos

I wondered if Tesla’s could get uglier. I was proved wrong.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Hate all you want. I will gladly take the savings on gas, maintenance, and penile implants.

----------


## pheoxs

Do you guys think these would work as truck nuts for my Tesla truck?

----------


## Xtrema

> looks like a Delorean fucked a stealth fighter



In some way as a BTTF fan, I kinda dig it.

But Tesla will sell everyone they can make to the Mexican cartels. Silent drug runner that's lightly bullet proof? Elon is going have suitcases of cash coming to him.

----------


## BerserkerCatSplat

> looks like a Delorean fucked a stealth fighter



Musk is building on what DeLorean started. See, if the DEA can't smash the stainless side panels, they can't find the cocaine hidden behind them. Genius!

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo



----------


## bjstare

They're going to sell shitloads of those.

----------


## ragu

This thing looks massively impressive. I've always found something attractive about Merc Unimog or other crazy trucks. This is straight out of mad max but modern version...

Give it 3-5yrs for a few more manufacturers to step up EV game , associated charging stations and we can hopefully reach tipping point in favor of EVs in NA.

----------


## killramos

I think we have discovered the most Binary vehicle design on the planet.

Either that or the musk koolaid is way stronger than I thought. Because I dont see any scenario where people think this thing looks good.

----------


## Buster

> I think we have discovered the most Binary vehicle design on the planet.
> 
> Either that or the musk koolaid is way stronger than I thought. Because I don’t see any scenario where people think this thing looks good.



Tesla fans aren't car people. They are technology people.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Tesla fans aren't car people. They are technology people.



This Nico dude...

https://twitter.com/nico_rosberg/sta...674940416?s=19

----------


## killramos

That Nico dude... couldn’t care less about anything so long as he gets fame and fortune out of it.

----------


## benyl

The price point is nuts. 800km range for the price of a Ford Raptor. Ford is going to have to work hard to match that with the F150 electric truck. They’ve done it somewhat with the Mach-E, so there is hope.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> That Nico dude... couldn’t care less about anything so long as he gets fame and fortune out of it.





Some random Jay...

----------


## Maxt

HotRod mag has the range at 300-400 miles and the towing weight at 7500, but I don't think the range is with it towing that weight.

----------


## AndyL



----------


## Kloubek

> Hell, I'm _still_ not entirely convinced this isn't some kind of elaborate marketing prank.



Likewise. It isn't that I would be surprised to see Tesla leading the way to break convention. Quite the contrary. But this thing is SO brutally ugly and the design is so.... seemingly amateur that I just can't see it being legit.

And if it is, those looks will be its downfall. Mad Max needs to remain fiction.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> The price point is nuts. 800km range for the price of a Ford Raptor.



If that is true when these are actually available for purchase, it'll be impressive as hell. But let's face it, right now it's not even a concept vehicle, it's pure vaporware.

----------


## speedog

> If that is true when these are actually available for purchase, it'll be impressive as hell. But let's face it, right now it's not even a concept vehicle, it's pure vaporware.



Well, the windows are vapourware for sure. Elon made sure the whole world saw that, wonder who's heads rolled after that.

----------


## ZenOps

Truck needs 500 watt solar panel topper.

----------


## benyl

> If that is true when these are actually available for purchase, it'll be impressive as hell. But let's face it, right now it's not even a concept vehicle, it's pure vaporware.



They are saying late 2022, but I think late 2023.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> They are saying late 2022, but I think late 2023.



I'm a party-pooper about future vehicles. You should see me in the Ford forums discussing the bronco and rhe 7.3L gas engine for the super duty. I just can't get worked up about something I cannot even buy yet.

----------


## Buster

This is pure pr stunt. And a good one at that.

----------


## Darell_n

> This is pure pr stunt. And a good one at that.



Pretty much. If Elon didn't set up his guy to break the window "accidentally", I wouldn't have even heard about this truck. Pure marketing to keep Tesla in the headlines.

----------


## ZenOps

What I want to know is how much Nickel is in it. Kitchen sink stainless tends to be Chromium/Molybdenum iron. When you talk "armored" or bullet resistant, you are usually talking nickel (or even cobalt) iron.

Price point is on par with what I would expect for an electric vehicle, especially considering no paint, which is stupendously expensive and stupid on a real work truck that would get a paint chip on the first day.

Combustion engine vehicles have been in a trap of paying extra for extra complexity since the 1960's. If computers evolved at the same rate and same price point, we would still be at the Bill Gates "640KB is enough" personal computer at a price point of around $10,000 each. I blame "patent crazy" USA.

----------


## J-D

> Well, the windows are vapourware for sure. Elon made sure the whole world saw that, wonder who's heads rolled after that.



To be fair:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1198090787520598016

----------


## revelations

> To be fair:
> 
> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1198090787520598016



Those are two completely different windows. That was an acrylic/lexan type, while the show window was obviously temper layered (common for BP glass). The outer layer will smash but the inner layers will protect the occupants.

----------


## speedog

146,000 orders, got to be a few beyonders on that list.

----------


## Disoblige

> 146,000 orders, got to be a few beyonders on that list.



You really gotta wonder.
Marketing genius or embarrassing blunder?

----------


## killramos

100 dollar refundable deposit lol

Would love to know the preorder-conversion rate.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Gotta be the first to do this mod. Don't try to stop me. 




200K 

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1198788116372344832

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Those are two completely different windows. That was an acrylic/lexan type, while the show window was obviously temper layered (common for BP glass). The outer layer will smash but the inner layers will protect the occupants.



The theory is micro-fractures from not switching to fresh windows after tossing steel balls at them prior to the show. Who knows.

----------


## SoSlowDx

Had a discussion with a family member yesterday about EVs. I spend about $600/month on gas, driving from Calgary to Innisfail and back, M-F (100km each way). I am now on my third vehicle in the last ten years. From our discussions it sounds like we should look into a Model 3 or wait a couple of more years for more options on EVs. I was wondering if I can have some input about reliability and maintenance on these Model 3s. In addition, the glass roof has me concerned with driving on the QEII. Thanks. - JL

----------


## ExtraSlow

If you are looking to save money, a cheap beater that gets good fuel economy is going to have you way further ahead for years and years and years. Now if you want a Tesla for OTHER reasons and want to use the fuel savings potential to justify it, then go nuts. They are cool cars.

Are you currently driving that Accord in your profile? How the hell do you spend $600/mo on gas for THAT? You should be getting under 9L/100km on the highway, and fuel is under $1/L, so that's 6700 km/mo?

----------


## pheoxs

> Had a discussion with a family member yesterday about EVs. I spend about $600/month on gas, driving from Calgary to Innisfail and back, M-F (100km each way). I am now on my third vehicle in the last ten years. From our discussions it sounds like we should look into a Model 3 or wait a couple of more years for more options on EVs. I was wondering if I can have some input about reliability and maintenance on these Model 3s. In addition, the glass roof has me concerned with driving on the QEII. Thanks. - JL



Honestly, it's not as sexy but you might be better off with a Chevy Cruze diesel. 28k out the door and 5.5L/100k on the highway. Assuming 50k kms a year and 1.20$/L that'd be 275$ a month in fuel. It would take over 7 years of fuel to reach roughly what a Tesla would cost. (Technically you'd still be ahead because you have to pay for electricity for the Tesla and the charger.) But then you have a fairly reliable diesel with 350k kms on it versus a relatively unknown long term Tesla with 350k kms on it.

Long term a EV is probably a good idea, but it just might be worth it to take another ~5 years as the EV market is still rapidly improving. Not to mention the standard Tesla is rated for 400kms and you are doing 200 km in a trip. And the batteries do lose capacity in the extreme cold so on a -30 day if it sits outside at work it may be iffy getting home. Telsa says the batteries will still have 70% capacity after 160k kms. But 70% in ideal conditions will be significantly less in cold winter days.

----------


## benyl

> Had a discussion with a family member yesterday about EVs. I spend about $600/month on gas, driving from Calgary to Innisfail and back, M-F (100km each way). I am now on my third vehicle in the last ten years. From our discussions it sounds like we should look into a Model 3 or wait a couple of more years for more options on EVs. I was wondering if I can have some input about reliability and maintenance on these Model 3s. In addition, the glass roof has me concerned with driving on the QEII. Thanks. - JL



You should find a Model S that fits your budget that has free supercharging. I don't know if stopping there on the way to work and then the way home is abuse, but that $600 could become $0.

----------


## supe

> Had a discussion with a family member yesterday about EVs. I spend about $600/month on gas, driving from Calgary to Innisfail and back, M-F (100km each way). I am now on my third vehicle in the last ten years. From our discussions it sounds like we should look into a Model 3 or wait a couple of more years for more options on EVs. I was wondering if I can have some input about reliability and maintenance on these Model 3s. In addition, the glass roof has me concerned with driving on the QEII. Thanks. - JL



I drove to Van this summer, spent a few days, then went to Kelowna spent a few days all using Tesla superchargers. They email you the receipts so I got a nice tally at the end. $112 for the entire trip. For reliability I have had zero real problems, a few minor things that Tesla took care of. Next year I want to plan a road trip to LA. For those not in the know, if you buy a Tesla, you get a free tour of the Fremont factory which people say is amazing. 

My main concern for road tripping is the lack of a spare. You have to rely on Tesla roadside assistance to bail you out if anything happens, apparently its a decent service but still can't be fun.

----------


## rage2

> My main concern for road tripping is the lack of a spare. You have to rely on Tesla roadside assistance to bail you out if anything happens, apparently its a decent service but still can't be fun.



This isn't just a Tesla problem. Tons of new cars have this problem.

----------


## ragu

Your electricity bill will be 1/4 of gasoline cost. Plus you'll save nearly all maintenance except tires. 400km is base model with RWD. In very cold days you'll likely see max 40% loss in the distance.

A perspective that hasn't been brought up is you're sitting in your car at least 2hrs every day. Test drive a tesla and see how you feel about that. It'll most likely make every other car you've sat in feel outdated.

----------


## speedog



----------


## shakalaka

I really wanna hate this truck but for some reason I just can't and almost want to get one. I don't know this strange feeling...it's so messed up.

----------


## rage2

> A perspective that hasn't been brought up is you're sitting in your car at least 2hrs every day. Test drive a tesla and see how you feel about that. It'll most likely make every other car you've sat in feel outdated.



Compared to an economy car, sure. The interior is one reason I haven’t gone with a Tesla. I wanna be pampered for my commutes.

----------


## pheoxs

> Your electricity bill will be 1/4 of gasoline cost. Plus you'll save nearly all maintenance except tires. 400km is base model with RWD. In very cold days you'll likely see max 40% loss in the distance.
> 
> A perspective that hasn't been brought up is you're sitting in your car at least 2hrs every day. Test drive a tesla and see how you feel about that. It'll most likely make every other car you've sat in feel outdated.



so 400km - 40% is 240km when new and its cold out. And his commute is 200km. By year 2 or 3 the batteries won't have the charge to make it the full commute if he's doing 50k a year. Or even brand new if he wants to go literally anything after work he won't have the range if it's cold out.

----------


## lilmira

Give me the three sea shells then may be I'll consider the cybertruck.

----------


## ragu

> so 400km - 40% is 240km when new and its cold out. And his commute is 200km. By year 2 or 3 the batteries won't have the charge to make it the full commute if he's doing 50k a year. Or even brand new if he wants to go literally anything after work he won't have the range if it's cold out.



We're saying the same thing, except at 2% degradation you're still able to do round trip in yr 5 in extreme weather. I get it, you want to also stop by a friend's place or grab eggs. Most EV owners find ways to minimize cost of charging and range anxiety e.g. in this case even basic 120V charging at work would get you ~30km range for your commute home. 

Anywho, that's base model (518km at one level up) so go test drive one and discuss with an owner or two. Your gas savings in 4 yrs are $22k (600/m x 48 x 3/4). Round that to $25k savings with maintenance. I'd be keen to know which gas powered car matches the performance, reliability, comfort and tech at such price gap.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Range is fine. Car is fine. If you like the car buy it, just don't think you are saving money.

----------


## rage2

> Range is fine. Car is fine. If you like the car buy it, just don't think you are saving money.



There are cases today where there's huge money savings. 
@benyl
 was paying $400/month in gas, now he gets free charging at work. He didn't even get a charger installed at home lol.

----------


## ExtraSlow

I guess I'm including capital outlay against a cheap beater commuter car. Or the 09 accord the OP's profile says he owns. 
If you are comparing against similarly expensive cars, or just looking at monthly operating, then yeah. 

I'm 100% pro EV. I think it's good technology already, and it won't be long until it's the sensible option for many people.

----------


## KPHMPH

> There are cases today where there's huge money savings. 
> @benyl
>  was paying $400/month in gas, now he gets free charging at work. He didn't even get a charger installed at home lol.



Damn cheap Asians, also #jealous.

Just to note, I’ve charged at home roughly 800 kWh’s worth and if I put that into dollars 800x0.15 = $120. 800 kWh = 8 tanks of fuel, which equals 3200 kms.

3200 would have been 6 tanks of fuel in the car, at 90$ per tank, equaling $540. On heavy months of driving I was saving $420.

On the side note, I drive zero some months.

----------


## rage2

I can't even figure out what my actual kWh rate is with all the fucking riders here lol. But yea, my new office has free charging at work too, but my fuel costs are so low because hybrid that it's not enough to push me over the edge and ignore the downsides that bother me.

----------


## Disoblige

You guys think that this whole free charging stuff will end in the near future as EVs become more mainstream?
Soon there will be meters that will charge to your credit card or something similar to paying for parking, no?

----------


## Buster

I'm in Toronto right now, and some of my co-workers have such shitty commutes. They calculate the savings from their Teslas not by how much fuel they save per month, but how those savings translate to a payoff for the entire car. 

They were bragging about how they got a a "free tesla". My view is that if you can justify a Tesla based on fuel cost savings your commute sucks ass and I feel bad.

Also fuck fuel savings.

Sometimes its not worth min-maxing life and driving something that is the transportation equivalent of a microwave.

----------


## killramos

> Sometimes its not worth min-maxing life and driving something that is the transportation equivalent of a microwave.



You owe me a new keyboard for that one lmao

----------


## pheoxs

> I'm in Toronto right now, and some of my co-workers have such shitty commutes. They calculate the savings from their Teslas not by how much fuel they save per month, but how those savings translate to a payoff for the entire car. 
> 
> They were bragging about how they got a a "free tesla". My view is that if you can justify a Tesla based on fuel cost savings your commute sucks ass and I feel bad.
> 
> Also fuck fuel savings.
> 
> Sometimes its not worth min-maxing life and driving something that is the transportation equivalent of a microwave.



But hey, Toronto is the greatest city in Canada. So like worth it.... right.

/s




> You guys think that this whole free charging stuff will end in the near future as EVs become more mainstream?
> Soon there will be meters that will charge to your credit card or something similar to paying for parking, no?



For sure. We already saw it with Tesla's free supercharging and such. Eventually it'll just be a meter you swipe and leave your car to top it up. Still cheaper than fuel though.

But I do wonder how much it'll raise our electricity rates when a significant portion of the province moves over.

----------


## killramos

> But hey, Toronto is the greatest city in Canada. So like worth it.... right.
> 
> /s



Center of the Universe Bro

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

The riders and transmission costs should be treated as fixed, since you will still be paying for them to supply your home. You still have to pay for them even with solar, as long as you are connected to the grid.

My energy charge was 5.5 cents per kwh. So that is the comparison in my mind. Maybe toss in a couple of pennies for transmission if you want to be conservative.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> I'm in Toronto right now, and some of my co-workers have such shitty commutes. They calculate the savings from their Teslas not by how much fuel they save per month, but how those savings translate to a payoff for the entire car. 
> 
> They were bragging about how they got a a "free tesla". My view is that if you can justify a Tesla based on fuel cost savings your commute sucks ass and I feel bad.
> 
> Also fuck fuel savings.
> 
> Sometimes its not worth min-maxing life and driving something that is the transportation equivalent of a microwave.



Ok Boomer.  :Smilie:

----------


## KPHMPH

> The riders and transmission costs should be treated as fixed, since you will still be paying for them to supply your home. You still have to pay for them even with solar, as long as you are connected to the grid.
> 
> My energy charge was 5.5 cents per kwh. So that is the comparison in my mind. Maybe toss in a couple of pennies for transmission if you want to be conservative.



My bill says it’s 6 cents per kwh, I just add another 9 cents for bullshit fees to bring it up to that 15 cents.

----------


## you&me

> But hey, Toronto is the greatest city in Canada. So like worth it.... right.
> 
> /s



There's a difference between "living in Toronto" and living in "Toronto", but more accurately commuting from Milton or Orangeville...

----------


## LLLimit

> You guys think that this whole free charging stuff will end in the near future as EVs become more mainstream?
> Soon there will be meters that will charge to your credit card or something similar to paying for parking, no?



There's still a bunch of freebies around like Ikea, but charging fees are already happening at Chinook Centre.

----------


## Buster

> Ok Boomer.



The inverse of this is also true.

----------


## rage2

> Sometimes its not worth min-maxing life and driving something that is the transportation equivalent of a microwave.



I'm going to borrow 
@benyl
 's Model 3P and take you for a rip when you get back haha.

----------


## benyl

> You guys think that this whole free charging stuff will end in the near future as EVs become more mainstream?
> Soon there will be meters that will charge to your credit card or something similar to paying for parking, no?



That exists now. you have to pay for charging at Chinook.

----------


## benyl

> I'm going to borrow 
> @benyl
>  's Model 3P and take you for a rip when you get back haha.



I love V8s, but I love horsepower more. Find me better bang for the buck where DA on a hot day doesn't matter or where you don't have to "warm up" the car. The M3P has near 500hp for less than $80K. In the US, you can even get that horsepower for less if you don't want the brakes, wheels and suspension and spoiler.

I bought the car, not because I want to save the environment. I bought it cause it fucking fast and I'm cheap. hahahaha

----------


## AndyL

> I can't even figure out what my actual kWh rate is with all the fucking riders here lol. But yea, my new office has free charging at work too, but my fuel costs are so low because hybrid that it's not enough to push me over the edge and ignore the downsides that bother me.



I want to know when I'm getting these riders back... 

So im still getting nailed for the day to day stuff... 2013 flood repairs... This summer it jumped another 30ish$ because the 6 year old lines replaced in the flood now need to he replaced again because people keep upgrading their house service to have charge stations. So fortis ripped it all out and replaced them with higher capacity...

FML! Make the tesla owners pay not the whole section of town ffs!

----------


## ExtraSlow

> I love V8s, but I love horsepower more. Find me better bang for the buck where DA on a hot day doesn't matter or where you don't have to "warm up" the car. The M3P has near 500hp for less than $80K. In the US, you can even get that horsepower for less if you don't want the brakes, wheels and suspension and spoiler.
> 
> I bought the car, not because I want to save the environment. I bought it cause it fucking fast and I'm cheap. hahahaha



Now ya talking brother! This is what I like, someone who understands their needs and desires.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> I can't even figure out what my actual kWh rate is with all the fucking riders here lol. But yea, my new office has free charging at work too, but my fuel costs are so low because hybrid that it's not enough to push me over the edge and ignore the downsides that bother me.



I've been tracking for a few years and incorporating all the fees & riders, the actual rate is very close to $0.18/kWh.
It can be as high as $0.23 and as low as $0.14 but that's rare.
18¢ is a solid estimate averaged over 3 years in a variety of consumption levels.

----------


## pheoxs

> I've been tracking for a few years and incorporating all the fees & riders, the actual rate is very close to $0.18/kWh.
> It can be as high as $0.23 and as low as $0.14 but that's rare.
> 18¢ is a solid estimate averaged over 3 years in a variety of consumption levels.



That's roughly what mine is as well. It gets cheaper the more you use because of the fixed fees. This is on Atco's 3 cent deal which definitely helped me in the months I use a ton of power. (Lots of 3d printers plus electric baseboard heaters for the workshop)

A few months of note:
68.39$ @ 405 kwh (16.9 c / kwh) - last month
116.33$ @ 822kwh (14.2 c / kwh) - jan 2019
142.58$ @ 1112 kwh (12.8 c / kwh) - mar 2019

----------


## Tik-Tok



----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Who are you all using for electricians?

----------


## KPHMPH

> Who are you all using for electricians?



Me, myself and I....oh and google.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

I got two quotes in the past few weeks...$6500 to upgrade home to 200 amp service and $1600 for a 50 amp outlet. Lol...

----------


## benyl

> I got two quotes in the past few weeks...$6500 to upgrade home to 200 amp service and $1600 for a 50 amp outlet. Lol...



Wow.

----------


## FraserB

> I got two quotes in the past few weeks...$6500 to upgrade home to 200 amp service and $1600 for a 50 amp outlet. Lol...



Jesus, I'm glad I ran the cable for 50 amps in my garage before I drywalled. Grab a permit and do it yourself, it's very hard to screw up a single circuit install.

----------


## BerserkerCatSplat

> Jesus, I'm glad I ran the cable for 50 amps in my garage before I drywalled. Grab a permit and do it yourself, it's very hard to screw up a single circuit install.



Not terribly surprising if it's an attached garage in a fully finished house. Running the cable can be pretty cheap but redoing the finishing work can really drive up the price if you're paying someone to do it. Agreed that if you have access, running the cable yourself is pretty straightforward. 60A service + a garage subpanel is pretty easy to accomplish.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Quote was to run the wire outside of the walls in a garage with a subpanel.

----------


## revelations

> Quote was to run the wire outside of the walls in a garage with a subpanel.



Is conduit that expensive now? jesus....

----------


## killramos

Sounds like “I don’t want to do this job” pricing.

----------


## benyl

> Sounds like “I don’t want to do this job” pricing.



So I just did a 14-50 in my garage. Breaker = $70, 7m of 6/3 cable = $91, misc boxes, staples, connectors = $30. Permit $120. Total: ~$200.

6/3 cable is a pain in the ass hard to work with.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> So I just did a 14-50 in my garage. Breaker = $70, 7m of 6/3 cable = $91, misc boxes, staples, connectors = $30. Permit $120. Total: ~$200.
> 
> 6/3 cable is a pain in the ass hard to work with.



And you overpaid for the breaker too.

----------


## benyl

You guys keep saying that but I went to Eecol and they wanted even more. I need a stab lok breaker.
https://www.lowes.ca/product/circuit...breaker-265878

eecol wanted $80 or $90 for it.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Oh look at Mr FancyBreakerPants here.  :Smilie:

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Received two more quotes for $500 and $700. $200 on top of that for permits.

----------


## pheoxs

> Received two more quotes for $500 and $700. $200 on top of that for permits.



Seems way more reasonable

----------


## BerserkerCatSplat

> Quote was to run the wire outside of the walls in a garage with a subpanel.



Then that quote is fucking Looney Tunes. They didn't want to do it.

----------


## FraserB

> Seems way more reasonable



Still getting reamed at $700-$900.

----------


## danno

Easy to say the quote is bad when nobody knows any details of the house and how the wire is run. Finished basement?? How far?? Finished garage?? 
The job doesn’t get done by someone for just material the guy has to get paid to do it, takes time to collect material then do the job.

At least there is a lot of electricians not working in town so labour should be cheap.

----------


## FraserB

> Easy to say the quote is bad when nobody knows any details of the house and how the wire is run. Finished basement?? How far?? Finished garage?? 
> The job doesn’t get done by someone for just material the guy has to get paid to do it, takes time to collect material then do the job.
> 
> At least there is a lot of electricians not working in town so labour should be cheap.



They said it was for outside of the walls in a garage with an panel already there

----------


## KPHMPH

I have a finished basement and a finished garage, I was getting quotes of $1500 to run the wire 17 feet.

I got all the proper equipment myself and ran it for pennies on the dollar.

I was full of luck though, my electrical room and storage room that was attached to the garage were both unfinished resulting in a wire in the ceiling from one room to another.
Drill a hole in garage and mount charger right there. I even ran a second wifi hub so the X had her own hub to attached to when parked.

----------


## danno

Sometimes the house works out like that, mine is as well. Mine would be 2-3 hours of work for me to do it. 

He states he is gettinga sub panel so the feed has to come from the main panel in the house, how far and how much is finished if any is unknown. They suggested running a pipe on the drywall to not wreck the walls is safe to assume, the other quotes would probably be cutting the walls up and leaving it for the home owner to get repaired. But who knows? I don’t see a ton of info, just lots of complaining about the price.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

3-4 hours labour on two of the quotes where we fish it up the attic and have a cleaner install. Main panel is actually in the garage where this is connected, sub is in the basement. They don't need to go into the basement. Zero drywall work other than a couple of small holes for the conduits in all quotes.

I wouldn't say that it is "lots of complaining". It doesn't bother me at all. Will let other companies have the work. 

The $1600 quote actually doubled during after hours because they need to install a thingamabob to make sure we are safe in the new home. Nice folks though and I appreciate their time in coming out to provide a quote.

----------


## danno

Seems simple enough but always a challenge getting into a attic through the top 2x4 with minimal damage. I get why the conduit had been suggested as it’s the easiest and fastest.

I wasn’t suggested you were complaining, all the guys ranting about the cost without knowing the job was what I was referring too. Good luck, update us with the results.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

OTA upgrade available today for LR AWD. $2000usd to drop 0-60 by 0.5 seconds to 3.9. Tempting...but I just bought a bidet. What to do?

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> OTA upgrade available today for LR AWD. $2000usd to drop 0-60 by 0.5 seconds to 3.9. Tempting...but I just bought a bidet. What to do?



Tough choices when it comes to washing your ass or moving your ass!
LoL

----------


## benyl

> OTA upgrade available today for LR AWD. $2000usd to drop 0-60 by 0.5 seconds to 3.9. Tempting...but I just bought a bidet. What to do?



Do it!

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

It's my JDM Toto money. Some initial reports.

» Click image for larger version

Source: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...158062/page-84

» Click image for larger version

Source: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...158062/page-83

----------


## supe

Feels like we're seeing a different Tesla. The Tesla of the past was always years behind schedule. They targeted supercharing the Trans Canada by year end and its basically done!

https://electrek.co/2019/12/20/tesla...stly-v3-250kw/

----------


## ExtraSlow

Is this the Petro-Canada charger network? Seems surprising two major ones were announced so close together

----------


## Tik-Tok

> OTA upgrade available today for LR AWD. $2000usd to drop 0-60 by 0.5 seconds to 3.9. Tempting...but I just bought a bidet. What to do?



Tesla, the ultimate mobile-game-pay-to-win, lol.

----------


## benyl

> OTA upgrade available today for LR AWD. $2000usd to drop 0-60 by 0.5 seconds to 3.9. Tempting...but I just bought a bidet. What to do?



Based on what I have read, you are getting the original Performance spec, 450hp with this upgrade. Way cheaper that the original performance price. It's just the performance has been upgraded twice now for free. 5% each time. Some claims of 550hp. Some crazy claims of over 600hp.

If the 0-60 claims of 2.9 are to be believed, the Performance models are putting out stupid power.

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors...0160_kmh_peak/

----------


## jacky4566

Well these dumb cars are starting to creep into my head again. Can anyone comment on the range in cold weather? 
Will the new Model 3 LR do ski trips without worry?
Model Y is also tempting since i'm a sucker for hatchbacks and wagons.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Well these dumb cars are starting to creep into my head again. Can anyone comment on the range in cold weather? 
> Will the new Model 3 LR do ski trips without worry?
> Model Y is also tempting since i'm a sucker for hatchbacks and wagons.



I drive a LR M3P; I was able to pick up two other guys in town and make it to Sunshine with 55% left of range. There are two Tesla HPWC (free wall chargers) at Sunshine but one was occupied by a Tesla that looked like it had been there for two weeks, and the second was blocked by a Sequoia. By the end of the day, I had about 45% left (it was averaging -15C that day). I had to top off at the Canmore supercharger to make it home. In general, if you want to make it back in without topping up at the supercharger, you'll need to plug in. But even if you did have to top-up, plug it in, grab a quick bite nearby, and then drive home. Not enough of an issue but it does make you plan out your trips more.

We too are looking at a Model Y to replace the wife's Q5 that's on lease until April 2020. Hoping the 7-seater version will come out earlier than projected too so that we'll be a fully electrified household!

----------


## supe

> Well these dumb cars are starting to creep into my head again. Can anyone comment on the range in cold weather? 
> Will the new Model 3 LR do ski trips without worry?
> Model Y is also tempting since i'm a sucker for hatchbacks and wagons.



This has been my rough estimate on range loss is you lose percentage wise whatever the temperature is in celcius. So if its -10 you lose about 10%, -30 about 30%. Lots of other factors, speed, elevation, even headwind all matter too, speed is the big one.

----------


## benyl

Update on the cost of driving a Model 3 Performance so far.

Since new, I am running an average of 230W/km. Based on my loaded electricity rate of $0.17 last month, that's about 4 cents per km. Car has 5000 km on it now. $200 to go that distance. Pretty cheap.

----------


## rage2

> Update on the cost of driving a Model 3 Performance so far.
> 
> Since new, I am running an average of 230W/km. Based on my loaded electricity rate of $0.17 last month, that's about 4 cents per km. Car has 5000 km on it now. $200 to go that distance. Pretty cheap.



I know you were bitching about losing 50% range when the weather was -20ish, how bad has it been during the milder weather the last few weeks?

----------


## revelations

I priced out a max perf, all options Model S .... about 160,000 CAD ....  :Shock:  Even the BASE model is 115,000 CAD. 

That makes no sense if someone is trying to save cash VS an ICE vehicle.

----------


## killramos

> I priced out a max perf, all options Model S .... about 160,000 CAD ....



That’s a lot less than they used to be

----------


## rage2

> I priced out a max perf, all options Model S .... about 160,000 CAD ....



It used to be $215k + tax.

----------


## revelations

that still makes no sense if one is considering moving away from ICE vehicles because of 'cost' savings .....

----------


## killramos

> that still makes no sense if one is considering moving away from ICE vehicles because of 'cost' savings .....



They never did. And electricity sure isn’t getting any cheaper.

----------


## sabad66

> that still makes no sense if one is considering moving away from ICE vehicles because of 'cost' savings .....



The Model S is a pretty high end car that competes with luxury vehicles. Are you mixing it up with the Model 3 that is their entry level model?

----------


## benyl

> I know you were bitching about losing 50% range when the weather was -20ish, how bad has it been during the milder weather the last few weeks?



Maybe 20% less. 

There are so many variables. I think the heater uses 4kwh on average. Then the motors will run super inefficient to heat the battery if cold soaked. 

When it was -20, I was getting the “regen limited” message constantly, even when freshly off the charger. The last couple of weeks, not at all. 

I don’t think I’ll ever go back to an ICE car. 

I was hoping to get the EQC in early 2020, but that’s been delayed a year.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> that still makes no sense if one is considering moving away from ICE vehicles because of 'cost' savings .....



Well, not a Tesla, but the best selling EV in Canada, the Mitsubishi outlander phev might. It's $44k, and very few compromises as a family vehicle.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

In my opinion, hybrids are pretty pointless with the rise of EVs.

----------


## rage2

> In my opinion, hybrids are pretty pointless with the rise of EVs.



Meh, I road trip a ton and prefer hybrid over EV. I don’t have to slow down, adjust climate control, or driving style to conserve power for long distance trips. EVs are a sure winner in the city tho.

----------


## Jlude

> I priced out a max perf, all options Model S .... about 160,000 CAD ....  Even the BASE model is 115,000 CAD. 
> 
> That makes no sense if someone is trying to save cash VS an ICE vehicle.



I paid $152k for my S without Ludicrous mode, and shortly afterwards they updated the pricing and offerings. All options would have been over $200k at that time. Pricing is getting better across the board.

----------


## revelations

I get it if you are paying for performance of the car - but if I had to make a financial-based choice, a high end Camry would be on my list over a 115,000 CAD base model S, without question.

----------


## speedog

Lucid Air, longer range at a better price than the Model S, https://lucidmotors.com/

----------


## Buster

> Lucid Air, longer range at a better price than the Model S, https://lucidmotors.com/



It's uglier than a Tesla...remarkable achievement.

----------


## revelations

> It's uglier than a Tesla...remarkable achievement.



In my lifetime, I would like to be able to 'do' this in the back seat (without a driver)..... we just need (embedded, radar reflective 'cat eyes') smart roads to be implemented first. 


» Click image for larger version

----------


## ExtraSlow

> It's uglier than a Tesla...remarkable achievement.



No bro, listen :



> * SPACE
> UNCOMPROMISED Luxury*  
> The Lucid Air is a marvel of proportion and form. Freed from the spatial requirements of an internal combustion engine, the Air achieves an expansive full-size interior within a midsize exterior, delivering sublime comfort in a new luxury class

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> In my lifetime, I would like to be able to 'do' this in the back seat (without a driver)..... we just need (embedded, radar reflective 'cat eyes') smart roads to be implemented first. 
> 
> 
> » Click image for larger version



Not in the back seat, but someone...err couple has already done this in a Tesla. Look in one of the "tubes". So I was told by ExtraSlow.

----------


## KPHMPH

> It's uglier than a Tesla...remarkable achievement.



What is the price? Couldn’t find it on the website.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> What is the price? Couldn’t find it on the website.



Starting US 60K

----------


## jacky4566

> I drive a LR M3P; I was able to pick up two other guys in town and make it to Sunshine with 55% left of range. There are two Tesla HPWC (free wall chargers) at Sunshine but one was occupied by a Tesla that looked like it had been there for two weeks, and the second was blocked by a Sequoia. By the end of the day, I had about 45% left (it was averaging -15C that day). I had to top off at the Canmore supercharger to make it home. In general, if you want to make it back in without topping up at the supercharger, you'll need to plug in. But even if you did have to top-up, plug it in, grab a quick bite nearby, and then drive home. Not enough of an issue but it does make you plan out your trips more.
> 
> We too are looking at a Model Y to replace the wife's Q5 that's on lease until April 2020. Hoping the 7-seater version will come out earlier than projected too so that we'll be a fully electrified household!



Have you tried using the "Range Mode" when your parked on the hill? The battery will not be heated at all. Which should save you some power however. In winter this will kill regen (No charging below 0C) but cruising hwy 1 doesnt regen much anyway.

----------


## benyl

> Obvious answer is buy 2 Teslas and leave one on the charger. Works for my cordless drill.



I took your advice.

----------


## killramos

Should have just bought an S the first time around lol

----------


## benyl

> Should have just bought an S the first time around lol



We need 2 cars. Two for one.

----------


## npham

> We need 2 cars. Two for one.



Did you end up selling the E63?

----------


## killramos

Platinum Expedition and an E63 for 2 model 3’s?

I mean, I know the economy is shit but that’s quite the trade.

----------


## benyl

> Platinum Expedition and an E63 for 2 model 3’s?
> 
> I mean, I know the economy is shit but that’s quite the trade.



1 income family. 

Only on Beyond are you poor when you buy cars that aren’t from Germany. lol

----------


## rage2

They’re Performance models. That’s like 2 c63s haha.

----------


## killramos

> Theyre Performance models. Thats like 2 c63s haha.



Yea but they are still domestics, so really its two mustangs lol.

Not sure where I am getting my high horse from, dont have any German cars right now, 2 domestics and a Japanese. And one of them is a mustang  :ROFL!: 

It is fun though haha

----------


## benyl

Back on topic.  :Smilie: 

The shitty license plate screws Elon provides have bugged me from day one. The heads are so small that the screw slips half behind the plate:



Replaced them with these stainless ones from Belmetric. Little bit of added security with the T25 torx head:

----------


## Jlude

I remember those screws, I remember thinking how they were shit and replaced them right away.

----------


## revelations

> Back on topic. 
> 
> The shitty license plate screws Elon provides have bugged me from day one. The heads are so small that the screw slips half behind the plate:
> 
> 
> 
> Replaced them with these stainless ones from Belmetric. Little bit of added security with the T25 torx head:



call me crazy but a 10c washer could have fixed that

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> I took your advice.



It is bad Feng Shui to house two Teslas in the same garage. You best build another one before terrible evils descend upon your harvest. I have spoken.

----------


## roopi

So what kind of affect does this weather have on the battery life?

----------


## Xtrema

> So what kind of affect does this weather have on the battery life?



Love to know as well wh/km on day like this.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Averaged 600 wh/km over the past day in -22.5c. Peak of 750wh/km this morning in downtown traffic at -23.5c.

----------


## benyl

300wh/km on my performance. At -5, it's about 230wh/km. it's rated at 185 I think.

Charging is a struggle in this weather. It's about 50% slower at 6kwh (199v @ 30A) that I have at work. So much power is spent warming the battery. Yesterday, I got to work with 25% left and only managed to charge to 75% in about 9 hours. Normally takes 4.5hours.

Basically it goes from charging at 36km/h to 1km/h or even negative (I can see range go down).

Charging 80kms so far this morning has taken 3+ hours.

----------


## Super_Geo

> 300wh/km on my performance. At -5, it's about 230wh/km. it's rated at 185 I think.
> 
> Charging is a struggle in this weather. It's about 50% slower at 6kwh (199v @ 30A) that I have at work. So much power is spent warming the battery. Yesterday, I got to work with 25% left and only managed to charge to 75% in about 9 hours. Normally takes 4.5hours.
> 
> Basically it goes from charging at 36km/h to 1km/h or even negative (I can see range go down).
> 
> Charging 80kms so far this morning has taken 3+ hours.



That sounds like a chore, tbh.
I think a good hybrid makes more sense at that point... I wonder how the Rav4 Prime will do in -30C weather.

It's 10-15C all winter in here in SF, and doesn't really get about 25-30C in the summer/fall... the Model 3 has been awesome for this climate.

----------


## benyl

Nope, not at all. The electrons are free. Worst case, I charge in my heated garage where there is no issue.

My guess is a Rav4 Prime will just run the ICE all the time. The hybrid part will only provide traction value and regen value. It will otherwise just be an ICE.

----------


## benyl

All taken within second of each other.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Are you parking outdoors? I got 22 kwh over 3 hrs in an unheated parking space. 240v 32a.

----------


## benyl

outside in the bitter cold at work.

----------


## speedog

I'm curious, is the charging cable locked to the car when connected so as to stop unknown parties from willingly disconnecting your vehicle from a charger?

----------


## ragu

> 300wh/km on my performance. At -5, it's about 230wh/km. it's rated at 185 I think.
> 
> Charging is a struggle in this weather. It's about 50% slower at 6kwh (199v @ 30A) that I have at work. So much power is spent warming the battery. Yesterday, I got to work with 25% left and only managed to charge to 75% in about 9 hours. Normally takes 4.5hours.
> 
> Basically it goes from charging at 36km/h to 1km/h or even negative (I can see range go down).
> 
> Charging 80kms so far this morning has taken 3+ hours.



Aee those charging rates at 120V? Are you seeing about 40% range loss this wk?

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Aee those charging rates at 120V? Are you seeing about 40% range loss this wk?



199v according to his screenshot. I am getting roughly the same charging speed as warmer temperatures in an unheated parking but covered spot. Something doesn't sound right.

- - - Updated - - -




> I'm curious, is the charging cable locked to the car when connected so as to stop unknown parties from willingly disconnecting your vehicle from a charger?



They are locked on tesla chargers but not if you use an adapter for other chargers. There is a way to 3d print something that will help the latter though.

----------


## rage2

@benyl
 what was your range like in -30C?

Drove 250km round trip same day for a hockey game last weekend, 130km/h on the highway in -30C, curious how close to the edge that is on the Model 3 Performance range in this weather. No time to charge for the 3 hrs at the game.

----------


## benyl

45% for my commute. Was consistently using 300-310 wh/km.

Where was the hockey game? 

So here is my data from memory.

If you can preheat your car before you leave, your range isn't really affected that much. you will probably still use 250 wH/km which give you a range of 300km on the performance.

Over 15 hours at -30, I lost 50kms of range parking overnight during a Scouts sleep over at the Hangar museum. You would probably lose 15 kms in 3 hours as long as you let the car sleep. On the way back, you will probably have to turn off the heat. haha.

If I was travelling like that all the time, I would get a ChaDeMo adaptor for $600 that would allow you to top up at Petro Can stations along the way at 50kwh if there are no superchargers on the route. You would need a 10 or 15 minute charge and would be good to go. What will fuck you over at that speed is a headwind. The stories I read about people travelling is all around slowing down to make it to the next charger. haha.

There is more and more charging infrastructure going in everyday.

----------


## rage2

> 45% for my commute. Was consistently using 300-310 wh/km.
> 
> Where was the hockey game? 
> 
> So here is my data from memory.
> 
> If you can preheat your car before you leave, your range isn't really affected that much. you will probably still use 250 wH/km which give you a range of 300km on the performance.
> 
> Over 15 hours at -30, I lost 50kms of range parking overnight during a Scouts sleep over at the Hangar museum. You would probably lose 15 kms in 3 hours as long as you let the car sleep. On the way back, you will probably have to turn off the heat. haha.
> ...



Calgary to Olds, with some driving around in Olds and Calgary. 250km total. This is one of our closer games, and yea -28C weather from that cold snap. I want to say that I never venture out of town in those kinda conditions, but the last deep freeze we were going West of Edmonton which isn't happening easily at all without stops in any Tesla haha.

I'm assuming heated garage just like you so car is always warm. I guess it's cold in Olds. How much battery drain is in the pre-heat while parked outside without a charger?

----------


## benyl

At full tilt, 8kWh. 

Takes like 15 -30 to warm the battery, so you are looking at 5-10% range reduction (closer to 10%).

There is a free 80Amp charger in Olds (chamber of commerce on 51 street, 1 block from the sportsplex). Of that, the Performance can only use 48A. That gives you about 70km/h in charging. So if you could get 1-2 hours on that, you'd be fine.

----------


## benyl

I put some mock info into A better route planner and it says you can do it with a 4 minute stop at cross iron on the way.

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?pla...b-f6c051cfd57a

----------


## ExtraSlow

> I put some mock info into A better route planner and it says you can do it with a 4 minute stop at cross iron on the way.
> 
> https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?pla...b-f6c051cfd57a



Thanks for these honest assessments. Have been much nicer to read than the pure fanboi stuff I usually see, and if anything, makes me like the car more.

----------


## benyl

> Thanks for these honest assessments. Have been much nicer to read than the pure fanboi stuff I usually see, and if anything, makes me like the car more.



Yeah, I am not going to sugarcoat anything. I jumped in with both feet and replaced both cars knowing that there is information I don't have. Sure, I was surprised at the range loss at -30, but I am not going to bitch about it. The forums and the facebook groups are filled with fanboys and morons that ask the same questions all the time. It's frustrating, but wading through the chaff, I have learned a few things.

The best fanboying is when people complain about something and then say: "I still love my Tesla." 

I once said that I don't understand why people love OTA updates so much. We are all basically beta testers for shitty code being written by Tesla. I got a lot of push back saying they love that the car is improving. My response was that they are releasing functionality that is already standard in other cars. Things like text to speech for text messages. Fanboys worship Elon. oh wait, no Elon chat in this thread.

----------


## Maxt

This is where I doubt the usefulness of an ev pickup truck, with the range drops due to weather apparent, think of what payload and trailer towing would do to range uncertainty.

----------


## killramos

> This is where I doubt the usefulness of an ev pickup truck, with the range drops due to weather apparent, think of what payload and trailer towing would do to range uncertainty.



Honestly I think an EV pickup would satisfy the needs of 80% of pickup buyers in the vast majority of locales. No line of sight to them being good enough for real work, but for all the casual buyers who want a car with a bed an EV pickup would be just fine.

Rural Canada is always going to be a challenge for EV’s due to distances and cold involved.

----------


## LLLimit

> This is where I doubt the usefulness of an ev pickup truck, with the range drops due to weather apparent, think of what payload and trailer towing would do to range uncertainty.



The way the most Superchargers & L2 chargers are setup, you typically back into the stall to access the cable.
Not at all conducive to any vehicle with a trailer. Unless you get that 1 of 8 front access stall, but then you're instantly the jerk with the trailer in the aisle of a busy Cross Iron Mills parking lot.
Also can't get into Southgate Mall's supercharger with a roof rack/accessories because it's inconveniently placed on the 2nd level of a parkade.

It's nice to see good news roll into r/teslamotors/ but quality content is few & far between these days, and just turns into another fanboy echo chamber.

With that said, I love my arowana-faced tablet on wheels.
240v charger in the garage, 120v in the work parkade. No gas station during the cold snap, no problems.

----------


## benyl

Yeah, when I saw this two days ago, I laughed and said I don’t care.

----------


## mo_money2supe

I'll admit I was a fanboi when I first got the car (maybe still am a bit). But after my second winter in the car now, I do find it tiring having to charge the car almost nightly. At least it was only needed during last week. Parking it outside for a full day sure takes a toll on the range. That said, plugging in overnight in the garage is still immensely easier than standing out in the bitter cold filling up for that 5 mins. So maybe I am still fanboi-ing...

----------


## rage2

> At full tilt, 8kWh. 
> 
> Takes like 15 -30 to warm the battery, so you are looking at 5-10% range reduction (closer to 10%).
> 
> There is a free 80Amp charger in Olds (chamber of commerce on 51 street, 1 block from the sportsplex). Of that, the Performance can only use 48A. That gives you about 70km/h in charging. So if you could get 1-2 hours on that, you'd be fine.






> I put some mock info into A better route planner and it says you can do it with a 4 minute stop at cross iron on the way.
> 
> https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?pla...b-f6c051cfd57a



Thanks. Basically, when I go EV I need to keep a single ICE car for the 3-4 times a year exceptions like that. I just want hassle free and minimal time planning, so to not have consistency and be on the edge would drive me nuts. Not a huge deal but something to contemplate.

----------


## rage2

> I'll admit I was a fanboi when I first got the car (maybe still am a bit). But after my second winter in the car now, I do find it tiring having to charge the car almost nightly. At least it was only needed during last week. Parking it outside for a full day sure takes a toll on the range. That said, plugging in overnight in the garage is still immensely easier than standing out in the bitter cold filling up for that 5 mins. So maybe I am still fanboi-ing...



Co-op full serve. Got gas in shorts sandals and slides in -30C haha. They even fill up washer fluid.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Thanks. Basically, when I go EV I need to keep a single ICE car for the 3-4 times a year exceptions like that. I just want hassle free and minimal time planning, so to not have consistency and be on the edge would drive me nuts. Not a huge deal but something to contemplate.



For your family, like many, you'll probably always have more than one vehicle, so keep one as ICE for long road trips and relax. This doesn't seem like a hassle to me at all.

----------


## LLLimit

> Co-op full serve. Got gas in shorts sandals and slides in -30C haha. They even fill up washer fluid.



I like to pull up to the selfserve gas bar to buy an undiscounted touchless car wash, and see how many looks I get.

I buy the 5-pack wash now.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Co-op full serve. Got gas in shorts sandals and slides in -30C haha. They even fill up washer fluid.



But Co-op doesn't have my 94 sweet juice to power my tuned Euro mobile...

Besides, what the heck were you thinking putting on shorts in that kinda weather?? Even under 2 full comforters and long-johns, I was still freezing my ass off in bed last week!

----------


## rage2

> But Co-op doesn't have my 94 sweet juice to power my tuned Euro mobile...
> 
> Besides, what the heck were you thinking putting on shorts in that kinda weather?? Even under 2 full comforters and long-johns, I was still freezing my ass off in bed last week!



Turn up the heat in the house? It's warm if you don't go outside.  :dunno: 

My car has steering wheel, arm rests, seat heaters. I get instant heat from the vents as well since I keep my garage at room temperature. At work,. this +15 connected office has changed the game significantly haha. I'm always comfortable.

----------


## ExtraSlow

I run my house HOTTER when it's really cold outside. 22C inside and -30c outside makes sense, but when it's 19c outside, I don't mind 19c inside. Is that weird?

----------


## pheoxs

> Thanks. Basically, when I go EV I need to keep a single ICE car for the 3-4 times a year exceptions like that. I just want hassle free and minimal time planning, so to not have consistency and be on the edge would drive me nuts. Not a huge deal but something to contemplate.



Kinda sucks car2go pulled out, that would be the perfect supplement. Just pay the day rate for a mercedes SUV for the days you need to go on longer trips and then just use a EV for the other 95% of your lifestyle. Even once a month it would be cheaper than paying insurance on a additional ICE car.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Turn up the heat in the house? It's warm if you don't go outside. 
> 
> My car has steering wheel, arm rests, seat heaters. I get instant heat from the vents as well since I keep my garage at room temperature. At work,. this +15 connected office has changed the game significantly haha. I'm always comfortable.



One has to offset the electricity costs of owning an EV over additional heating costs of one's house!

----------


## rage2

> Kinda sucks car2go pulled out, that would be the perfect supplement. Just pay the day rate for a mercedes SUV for the days you need to go on longer trips and then just use a EV for the other 95% of your lifestyle. Even once a month it would be cheaper than paying insurance on a additional ICE car.



We already have 2 cars, just trying to plan out future vehicles in the next cycle. No big deal keeping one ICE for road trips. We only have 1 trip (our summer vacation) where we take both cars, and charging infrastructure is good enough to get all way way to the lake house 150km outside Kamloops. I can sacrifice a little bit of charging time once a year haha.

----------


## benyl

> Thanks. Basically, when I go EV I need to keep a single ICE car for the 3-4 times a year exceptions like that. I just want hassle free and minimal time planning, so to not have consistency and be on the edge would drive me nuts. Not a huge deal but something to contemplate.



rent a car? Aren't your trips scheduled?

----------


## Maxt

> Honestly I think an EV pickup would satisfy the needs of 80% of pickup buyers in the vast majority of locales. No line of sight to them being good enough for real work, but for all the casual buyers who want a car with a bed an EV pickup would be just fine.
> 
> Rural Canada is always going to be a challenge for EVs due to distances and cold involved.



 I can see it coming that in operation, the truck will have to have a learn mode for trailers or payload, the rolling resistance etc will have to be set in order to plan trips and or distance.compared to what I drive now, that will seem like a lot faffing around and people will tire of it if they don't make it as carefree as a normal truck. But I suppose one could argue it's less care overall because of the absence of oil changes and traditional truck maintenance.I would be fully on board if it had a 3 minute recharge, and went at least 800 km range regardless of what I put in the box or on the hitch.

----------


## rage2

> rent a car? Aren't your trips scheduled?



Some are some aren't. Family coming to AB for a hockey tournament this weekend, swing by if you're free. Could be Winsport, could be Olds, could be Spruce Grove. Could be 10C, could be -30C. So aside from set summer + winter vacations, all of our road trips are out of the blue. Then there's summer baseball for the kids, we have no idea where we're going for tournaments until 2-3 days before the weekend. That isn't as much of a problem in the summer I guess, unless there's headwind, but last thing I want to do in Methbridge is to sit around a charger. There's really no downtime between games, dinner with the team, sleep, breakfast, and the next games. Pretty much have to charge before leaving town.

We used to rent a minivan for our summer vacations, but I've whined enough about driving that POS we now take 2 cars.  :ROFL!: 

I dunno, I enjoy beating up the car, and I love how EV's drive with insta-torque, but I think the solution is to just keep it in the city, one EV, one ICE for road trips as a happy medium.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Some are some aren't. Family coming to AB for a hockey tournament this weekend, swing by if you're free. Could be Winsport, could be Olds, could be Spruce Grove. Could be 10C, could be -30C. So aside from set summer + winter vacations, all of our road trips are out of the blue. Then there's summer baseball for the kids, we have no idea where we're going for tournaments until 2-3 days before the weekend. That isn't as much of a problem in the summer I guess, unless there's headwind, but last thing I want to do in Methbridge is to sit around a charger. There's really no downtime between games, dinner with the team, sleep, breakfast, and the next games. Pretty much have to charge before leaving town.
> 
> We used to rent a minivan for our summer vacations, but I've whined enough about driving that POS we now take 2 cars. 
> 
> I dunno, I enjoy beating up the car, and I love how EV's drive with insta-torque, but I think the solution is to just keep it in the city, one EV, one ICE for road trips as a happy medium.



Have you taken a look at all the available Level 2 chargers nearby the arenas you've been to? Check out https://www.plugshare.com/ I'm sure you can easily find one within a short walking distance from where the kids' games are that you can just leave it plugged in during that 3-hr window. I've never had an issue finding at least a Level 2 charger while we have a few hours to kill (eg. food, sleep, sightseeing, etc.).

----------


## rage2

> Have you taken a look at all the available Level 2 chargers nearby the arenas you've been to? Check out https://www.plugshare.com/ I'm sure you can easily find one within a short walking distance from where the kids' games are that you can just leave it plugged in during that 3-hr window. I've never had an issue finding at least a Level 2 charger while we have a few hours to kill (eg. food, sleep, sightseeing, etc.).



Yea, like 
@benyl
 suggested in the Olds case, there was one 4 min walk from the arena. What he doesn't have is 3 kids to deal with haha. Don't get me wrong, total first world problems, I'm not walking 5 mins in -30C weather. I'd rather just hop in an ICE car, drive to Olds, and not deal with that. Then there's Spruce Grove, nothing nearby. Hell it wouldn't even make it up there without a charge in between anyways.

I just wish there's a PHEV that gives me the performance benefits of both EV and ICE. That doesn't fully exist today. What I have in the E53 is as close as it gets for now.

----------


## tonytiger55

When its -30c. What is the interior heating like on the Tesla..?

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Yea, like 
> @benyl
>  suggested in the Olds case, there was one 4 min walk from the arena. What he doesn't have is 3 kids to deal with haha. Don't get me wrong, total first world problems, I'm not walking 5 mins in -30C weather. I'd rather just hop in an ICE car, drive to Olds, and not deal with that. Then there's Spruce Grove, nothing nearby. Hell it wouldn't even make it up there without a charge in between anyways.
> 
> I just wish there's a PHEV that gives me the performance benefits of both EV and ICE. That doesn't fully exist today. What I have in the E53 is as close as it gets for now.



Fair enough. Chargers are being added daily as we speak. Tesla used to (may still do?) have a program that would donate a free charger to a business as long as the business pays for the install and hosts the power needed. It's often a win-win situation for both Tesla and the hosting business to get patrons, especially hotels. It never hurts to suggest a business nearby those arenas on Tesla's website: https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/charging...rs?redirect=no

As for PHEV with similar power, *ahem*: https://www.porsche.com/canada/en/mo...ra-4-e-hybrid/

- - - Updated - - -




> When its -30c. What is the interior heating like on the Tesla..?



I typically pre-heat my cabin 5-10 mins before I leave from my phone app. The interior easily gets to my set temp (~22.0C) by the time I get to the car. I even set the heated seats too!

----------


## rage2

> As for PHEV with similar power, *ahem*: https://www.porsche.com/canada/en/mo...ra-4-e-hybrid/



Yea, spec'd one out at $260k.  :ROFL!:

----------


## benyl

I have 2 kids. I doing a lot of dropping off at the front because my family bitches about having to walk far. 1. because walking is good for you. 2. trying to avoid door dings from lazy Asian drivers.

That being said, I have been known to park at Ikea while shopping at EQ3.  :Wink:

----------


## supe

> I once said that I don't understand why people love OTA updates so much. We are all basically beta testers for shitty code being written by Tesla. I got a lot of push back saying they love that the car is improving. My response was that they are releasing functionality that is already standard in other cars. Things like text to speech for text messages.




This is crazy talk. Sentry mode was a OTA update, how many other cars monitor 4 cams while the car is parked? What about in car browser, games, dog mode, careoke, Netflix?

Not to mention the major car function improvements like one pedal driving, increased performance, autopilot improvements. 

These are all things I love about my car. Sure there are a few other gimicky things or things that maybe should have been there at release. But at the end of the day in any other car, you would have to wait a whole model year to get those improvements (or pay money). With Tesla you get them for free OTA. Its like Christmas every time you get an update.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Sure there are a few other gimicky things or things that maybe should have been there at release. But at the end of the day in any other car, you would have to wait a whole model year to get those improvements (or pay money). With Tesla you get them for free OTA. Its like Christmas every time you get an update.



Exactly! Fart mode so should have been in the car WITHOUT the need for an OTA update. How dare Elon!

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

I come with fart mode without the need for OTA updates.

----------


## benyl

> With Tesla you get them for free OTA. Its like Christmas every time you get an update.



For now. The extra power and efficiency updates were free until they released the Acceleration upgrade for Dual Motor cars for $2K USD.

One pedal driving was on the Bolt at launch.

Don't get me wrong, I like free. I just don't understand why people love the upgrades soooooo much.

I do have a feeling that we are going to start seeing paid DLC. It's even foretold with Elon saying that rear heated seats will be a paid upgrade option for standard range.

Don't forget, I like the car enough to have purchased 2 of them.

----------


## blownz

I actually came very close to buying a Model 3 LR to replace my written off G70. Problem is, the 2020 G70 was ~$57K with GST and the Tesla was over $80K, and if I wanted the performance, over $90K with GST. So much money when I have a gas card from work for the $3-400 a month I use in fuel (plus a few touchless washes each month...). It was just too hard to justify that extra money. Sure I didn't need FSD and could save almost $10K there, but the car is still a lot more money and doesn't feel as expensive inside as the G70 (aside from the big ass screen).

A few things that bother me about the Model 3 that I wish they would fix:

1. No wireless cell phone charging, c'mon even economy cars for ~$25K have that now.
2. No cooled seats - best thing in the world imo
3. That wood strip with the black interior is hideous, there has to be something better (dark wood, aluminum, carbon fiber...anything else!)
4. HUD. I know the screen is huge and has a ton of info, but I really like HUD's and think it would still be nice
5. Just an overall more luxurious interior. It just feels cheap in there (again, aside from the big ass screen).

----------


## 90_Shelby

This seems bizarre for Tesla to be pulling software after a new owner takes possession. 

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-remotely-...mer-1841472617

----------


## benyl

> This seems bizarre for Tesla to be pulling software after a new owner takes possession. 
> 
> https://jalopnik.com/tesla-remotely-...mer-1841472617



Isn't that just timing. It could have happened before or long after depending on audit timing.

----------


## benyl

> I actually came very close to buying a Model 3 LR to replace my written off G70. Problem is, the 2020 G70 was ~$57K with GST and the Tesla was over $80K, and if I wanted the performance, over $90K with GST. So much money when I have a gas card from work for the $3-400 a month I use in fuel (plus a few touchless washes each month...). It was just too hard to justify that extra money. Sure I didn't need FSD and could save almost $10K there, but the car is still a lot more money and doesn't feel as expensive inside as the G70 (aside from the big ass screen).
> 
> A few things that bother me about the Model 3 that I wish they would fix:
> 
> 1. No wireless cell phone charging, c'mon even economy cars for ~$25K have that now.
> 2. No cooled seats - best thing in the world imo
> 3. That wood strip with the black interior is hideous, there has to be something better (dark wood, aluminum, carbon fiber...anything else!)
> 4. HUD. I know the screen is huge and has a ton of info, but I really like HUD's and think it would still be nice
> 5. Just an overall more luxurious interior. It just feels cheap in there (again, aside from the big ass screen).



don't get FSD. Current cars in the US have traffic light visualization. Canadian cars do not have that.

Even if FSD comes out in the US in the next 2 years, there is no certainty that it will come out in Canada.

1. Wireless phone charging is a $50 fix.
2. this will piss me off in the summer. You can precondition the car before you get to it to cool down the whole cabin, but that is not the same.
3. I'm getting a cover for it. fucking drives me nuts.
4. Hud would be great.
5. Agreed. I bought the car for the power. It's like an STi or an Evo. Expensive for the moving bits in a tin can container.
6. I thought I couldn't live without Apple CarPlay. 
Other than waze police notification, I don't miss it at all. The routing and ETA is way better on the native Tesla Navigation as compared to Google Maps, Apple Maps or Waze. Bluetooth integration is improving. Album art wasn't available when I picked up my first car, but came in the next update. Calendar integration is cool where if you put the address in your next appointment, the navigation automatically set it as a destination.

Text notifications is new. It reads it to you and also displays the text. Carplay won't let you see the text. Voice commands are pretty good.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> Isn't that just timing. It could have happened before or long after depending on audit timing.



I'm not familiar with auto manufacturers doing audits on their vehicles and pulling options that previous clients paid for, is that a thing? 


Another example from the article:

_I sell dozens of Teslas a year, and sold my father in law a Model X P90D with ludicrous speed package. 60 days after the purchase of the car, Tesla removed his ludicrous speed package. Upon complaints to them they said he never paid for it. We have video evidence and multiple pictures of the vehicle with it. They even removed the line under the P90D. I am still shocked at these acts._

Also from the article:

Alec isn’t alone in his experience; Tesla message boards have stories from other owners who have experienced similar incidents.

All of what happened here goes completely counter to how we’ve understood the buying and selling of used cars since there were used cars to sell. Whatever equipment the car had on it at the time of sale was part of that sale, period.

Subscription-based services like OnStar would be different, but that’s not what we’re dealing with here; this is an optional feature of the car paid for once, like cruise control or A/C or a radio. You can’t just yank it out after the car is sold with those features understood to be part of the car.

It sets a bad precedent if carmakers are going to be able to de-content used cars after sale; technically, any feature that is available to be activated or deactivated in software could be vulnerable to something like this, and I can’t think of any context where remote removal after purchase is okay.

In fact, it seems like a pretty shitty thing to do, a craven attempt to double-dip and get money for the same features every time the car is re-sold.

----------


## blownz

> don't get FSD. Current cars in the US have traffic light visualization. Canadian cars do not have that.
> 
> Even if FSD comes out in the US in the next 2 years, there is no certainty that it will come out in Canada.
> 
> 1. Wireless phone charging is a $50 fix.
> 2. this will piss me off in the summer. You can precondition the car before you get to it to cool down the whole cabin, but that is not the same.
> 3. I'm getting a cover for it. fucking drives me nuts.
> 4. Hud would be great.
> 5. Agreed. I bought the car for the power. It's like an STi or an Evo. Expensive for the moving bits in a tin can container.
> ...



Glad to see you pretty much agree with me. Too many Tesla owners would respond with "Those are all stupid things, Tesla is better than everything else!" lol

I do know a few people with Tesla's and I agree with you on the maps. Although Android Auto is smart enough to grab my calendar address when I get in the car.

Regarding the wood strip, are you having it covered with a film or are there actual replacements you can get?

I did look close in December when I wrote off my G70, but even without the FSD (and seriously, how to you live without summon?) the Long range was an extra $16K and the performance was $24K extra. It was just a bit too much when like I said I wouldn't actually save any money in fuel or maintenance. And I really did love the G70 and wasn't tired of it yet. Maybe next time. That said, when I ordered my 2020 G70 in late December, I received it in 12 days including going over Christmas and New Years (was was originally in Vancouver port). A buddy of mine ordered a Model 3 long range the week before me and he is still waiting. Apparently in the new year Tesla started on a large batch of cars not for NA so everyone is waiting right now. That would have also sucked for me since I was without a car and the insurance company wouldn't have let me keep a rental for that long. I take that as a sign I made the right choice for now. I am hopeful for an actual premium interior at some point to make it more appealing.  :Smilie:

----------


## Xtrema

> Regarding the wood strip, are you having it covered with a film or are there actual replacements you can get?

----------


## Maxt

> This seems bizarre for Tesla to be pulling software after a new owner takes possession. 
> 
> https://jalopnik.com/tesla-remotely-...mer-1841472617



 Reselling options to new buyers, are these options actually just subscriptions then? That makes a used tesla with software enhancement options no more valuable than a car without.

----------


## Buster

> I'm not familiar with auto manufacturers doing audits on their vehicles and pulling options that previous clients paid for, is that a thing? 
> 
> 
> Another example from the article:
> 
> _I sell dozens of Teslas a year, and sold my father in law a Model X P90D with ludicrous speed package. 60 days after the purchase of the car, Tesla removed his ludicrous speed package. Upon complaints to them they said he never paid for it. We have video evidence and multiple pictures of the vehicle with it. They even removed the line under the P90D. I am still shocked at these acts._
> 
> Also from the article:
> 
> ...



What a shit company.

I'm trying to think of another shit company that survives off of being a cult.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Apple?

----------


## Buster

> Apple?



I prefer Android to Apple, but I don't think I would describe Apple as a shit company. Tesla just sucks.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> I prefer Android to Apple, but I don't think I would describe Apple as a shit company. Tesla just sucks.



Apple manages to be a pretty real company AND a cult.

----------


## revelations

> I prefer Android to Apple, but I don't think I would describe Apple as a shit company. Tesla just sucks.



Apple has made some epic failures in recent history (Ip4 antenna?) . But now they have moved away from new ideas and innovation, and into just mass production of the same BS devices as 2008, but with slightly new features every few years and increase the price.

Can you imagine telling someone in 2005 their mobile phone was going to cost 1500$???? It would result in immediate ridicule.

----------


## ExtraSlow

:hijacked: 
Just like the mighty Ford Raptor, Nobody BUYS the phones. They are just a monthly payment.

----------


## killramos

> Just like the mighty Ford Raptor, Nobody BUYS the phones. They are just a monthly payment.



I don’t remember the last time I had a subsidized iPhone, I buy them unlocked at the Apple store and save the 30-40/mo on my plans.

 :dunno: 

Speaking of monthly payments... just spent the morning toodling around the boy show. That’s some next level monthly payments and bad financial literacy lol

----------


## sabad66

> Can you imagine telling someone in 2005 their mobile phone was going to cost 1500$???? It would result in immediate ridicule.



yep

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Razr

was around $1200 CAD at launch if i recall correctly

----------


## rage2

You guys just aren’t old enough. Bunch of us old timers were buying $2k+ phones well before the iPhone. Moto Elite and Startac VIPs.

As for this used Tesla business, I believe they only strip out the options if Tesla themselves resell the car so they can double dip. I don’t think that’s happening on the 3rd party resale market. Only reason this example happened is because they bought from Tesla at auction but seems like someone fucked up the details somewhere. That part is not surprising haha.

If it is happening in 3rd party transfers, then ya that’s a shit move.

----------


## Buster

> You guys just aren’t old enough. Bunch of us old timers were buying $2k+ phones well before the iPhone. Moto Elite and Startac VIPs.



How often did Motorola do "audits" and remove features from the phones?

----------


## revelations

> You guys just aren’t old enough. Bunch of us old timers were buying $2k+ phones well before the iPhone. Moto Elite and Startac VIPs.
> 
> .



Sure thing, but in no way was that normal back in 2005, to have a 2000$ phone. Now its considered a NORMAL 'status' symbol to be 14 and have a 1500-2000$ phone.

Best part? Not only are these phones much more expensive than before, they are also much more fragile - now with glass back phones too. 

I used to have a Nokia candy bar phone that I had for over 4 years - it died after it fell into a slush puddle full of salt and mud water. 100$ later I was back in business.

----------


## beyond_ban

> I dont remember the last time I had a subsidized iPhone, I buy them unlocked at the Apple store and save the 30-40/mo on my plans.



The 30-40 you "save" is just an interest free loan to purchase the same phone for the same end price. Technically speaking, financing is a better deal as you can take that ~$1000 up front cost and have it invested elsewhere for the duration.

----------


## rage2

> Sure thing, but in no way was that normal back in 2005, to have a 2000$ phone. Now its considered a NORMAL 'status' symbol to be 14 and have a 1500-2000$ phone.
> 
> Best part? Not only are these phones much more expensive than before, they are also much more fragile - now with glass back phones too. 
> 
> I used to have a Nokia candy bar phone that I had for over 4 years - it died after it fell into a slush puddle full of salt and mud water. 100$ later I was back in business.



It’s a lot different than back then. Back then we’re literally buying expensive phones. These are pocket computing devices that can be used as a phone. 

You want to do an apples to apples comparison, $85 for a flip phone at Fido. You can’t compare the durability of a phone with a small low res screen and a smart phone with a high def touchscreen in comparison, which needs to be a decent size to be usable.  :crazy nut:

----------


## supe

> I do know a few people with Tesla's and I agree with you on the maps. Although Android Auto is smart enough to grab my calendar address when I get in the car.
> 
> Regarding the wood strip, are you having it covered with a film or are there actual replacements you can get?



If you sync your calendar and your appointments have locations set, when you get in your car it will auto nav to the location set. 

I have not seen any replacements for the strip, mostly people just covering it up with their choice of vinyl.

----------


## blownz

^ yeah, the video above showing the carbon fiber cover looks good. I would definitely do that if I had the black interior.

----------


## ipeefreely

:dunno:

----------


## ExtraSlow

Where he's going he doesn't need roads.

----------


## heavyD

> 



Not a lot different to when people pull into gas pumps with both sides are available and they take the side opposite to their gas cap and have to fumble with the hose over the top of their car/SUV. Although this one does have a Tesla owner level of pretentiousness to it.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

https://youtu.be/j52odgkRxDs

Lady trying to gas up a Tesla.

----------


## gmc72

> 



Is he standing there waiting for it to "fill up"?

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Is he standing there waiting for it to "fill up"?



They take 2-3 minutes like all cars, right?

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> They take 2-3 minutes like all cars, right?



Get them Coulombs flowin'! Speed o light, Brah!

----------


## richardchan2002

https://jalopnik.com/car-and-drivers...tes-1841577600

Interesting comparo re: advertised metrics and real world performance.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> https://jalopnik.com/car-and-drivers...tes-1841577600
> 
> Interesting comparo re: advertised metrics and real world performance.



Wow! For the Tesla owners, by the seat of the pants, is it that noticeable regarding the performance degradation?

After 3 hits to 60mph the performance drops to 5 seconds? and x 3 1/4 mile hits, the et drops to high 13's?

----------


## richardchan2002

Yeah on paper the it seems the Tesla beats the Porsche in all metrics. But in real world the Porsche has better performance and achieves similar mileage. German engineering vs American engineering?

----------


## rage2

To be fair, these are literally back to back to back 1/4 mile runs. I don’t think I’ve beat on a S or 3 hard enough on the street to have that significant performance degradation.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> To be fair, these are literally back to back to back 1/4 mile runs. I don’t think I’ve beat on a S or 3 hard enough on the street to have that significant performance degradation.



What causes the degradation? Heat from repetitive runs or state of the battery? In other words, if you have a random run in with a Tesla, what are the chances that it's as fast as it's supposed to be?

----------


## ExtraSlow

Or, if you drive to the track, what are the odds you'll beat the poor-she?

----------


## pheoxs

> What causes the degradation? Heat from repetitive runs or state of the battery? In other words, if you have a random run in with a Tesla, what are the chances that it's as fast as it's supposed to be?



Batteries heat up when they dissipate and motors heat up as well. Both lower their efficiency if they aren't cooled adequately

----------


## benyl

> What causes the degradation? Heat from repetitive runs or state of the battery? In other words, if you have a random run in with a Tesla, what are the chances that it's as fast as it's supposed to be?



Heat and SOC. Cold is a factor too. Optimal battery temp for Tesla is 40ish degrees. 

I don’t think it’s about engineering as much as focus. Tesla is trying to protect the battery. Porsche is protecting performance. My take anyway.

----------


## rage2

> Heat and SOC. Cold is a factor too. Optimal battery temp for Tesla is 40ish degrees. 
> 
> I don’t think it’s about engineering as much as focus. Tesla is trying to protect the battery. Porsche is protecting performance. My take anyway.



Uhh, no, it’s all about engineering. Porsche over engineered the crap out of battery thermal management so that it can pull off repeatable performance. The S has to protect the battery because it can’t manage the temps in extreme cases. Same goes for the 3, I mean it can’t even keep battery temps up on a winter drive. 

The focus for Tesla is to do the bare minimum to get the job done in California. Bumper to bumper traffic, and acceleration bursts here and there. Anything else and you start running into compromises. 

Fun read on taycan thermal management: https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/prod...ery-18557.html

----------


## benyl

> Same goes for the 3, I mean it can’t even keep battery temps up on a winter drive.



I haven't had time to test to see if I put the car in track mode when it is cold to see if it heats the battery. From what I have read, track mode improves cooling. What I don't know is if it gets the battery to the target temp, regardless of ambient. I have ScanMyTesla with a OBD cable in both cars. I should test it out and see if I need to be driving in track mode everywhere in the winter. haha.

edit: looks like it might be cooling only:




> Track Focused Powertrain Cooling The high output power required for track driving generates a lot of heat, so endurance on the track requires more aggressive cooling of the powertrain. We proactively drop the temperatures of the battery and the drive units in preparation for the track and continue to cool them down in between drive sessions. We can also allow operation of the powertrain beyond typical thermal limits and increase our refrigerant system capacity by overclocking the AC compressor into higher speed ranges.






> The focus for Tesla is to do the bare minimum to get the job done in California. Bumper to bumper traffic, and acceleration bursts here and there. Anything else and you start running into compromises.



I have no doubt Porsche is an engineering marvel. But is Porsche making any money? I think GM still loses money on each Bolt they sell.

The S / X have older tech and likely can't sustain the repeated launches. The 3 seems like Tesla has made some progress.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/28...s-to-200-km-h/

Don't get me wrong, the 3 is still compromised. I ok with compromise, mostly because I have to be. haha I can't afford a Turbo S.

----------


## bjstare

> Yeah on paper the it seems the Tesla beats the Porsche in all metrics. But in real world the Porsche has better performance and achieves similar mileage. German engineering vs American engineering?



More like tech company making cars vs. actual automotive company making cars.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> More like tech company making cars vs. actual automotive company making cars.



Kind of like people in Strathcona pretending to be in Aspen vs actual people living in Aspen.

At least they have great customer service according to the first consumer Taycan passing through Calgary.
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/th....879/post-9975

----------


## rage2

> I have no doubt Porsche is an engineering marvel. But is Porsche making any money? I think GM still loses money on each Bolt they sell.
> 
> The S / X have older tech and likely can't sustain the repeated launches. The 3 seems like Tesla has made some progress.
> 
> https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/28...s-to-200-km-h/
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the 3 is still compromised. I ok with compromise, mostly because I have to be. haha I can't afford a Turbo S.



I have no doubt Porsche is making money on the Taycan Turbo S at 250k a pop lol. Don’t get me wrong, I’m probably closer to buying a Tesla than a Taycan at this point. 

As for the bolt comparison, it’s pretty similar to Tesla. Each bolt GM sells loses money but makes up for it by not needing to buy regulatory credits. Tesla (arguably) makes money on each Tesla sold because of regulatory credit sales.

----------


## mo_money2supe

I'm only just seeing the last week's posts now. While I can't speak on the Performance S's response to heat on repeated 1/4-mile runs, I can speak to my Performance 3's performance on back-to-back 1/4 runs. I ran mine back in Fall 2018 at one of the 1/4 events at the half-mile air strip (RIP to the land owner btw) and had VERY consistent times throughout. Never an issue with overheating (note this was before Track Mode was available on the P3s). The fastest time I clocked was 11.78s @ 117-ish mph and I think worst time was 11.9-ish (mostly due to poor traction at the start) - I can scan in all my slips if anyone's interested. This was before the two 5% power increase updates, on a very non-sticky track, before Track Mode was available, and I was still on the OEM 20s, which are quite heavy. I haven't been back to the track since the two power increase updates and with my WedsSports on the car, but I'm anticipating breaking into the 11.5s range with a good launch.

And wow, Richard, you still exist on here! Haven't seen you on here for at least a decade plus!

----------


## richardchan2002

I still do some lurking here and there. I’m pretty interested in this topic in particular.

It sounds like some of the issues are figured out in the Model 3. And it might not matter from a daily driving perspective unless you are racing at every traffic light.

I suspect Porsche had an agenda as well - while the Model S might be the closest in price to the Taycan, it’s not really a fair to compare to a Tesla that was released almost 10 years ago.

On another note, not sure if it was discussed previously in this thread but the 800V charging of the Porsche seems to translate into some faster charging times. Does anyone know if Tesla is moving that route with its super chargers?

----------


## benyl

> On another note, not sure if it was discussed previously in this thread but the 800V charging of the Porsche seems to translate into some faster charging times. Does anyone know if Tesla is moving that route with its super chargers?



V3 Superchargers are capable of 250KW. Only the model 3 long rang (and performance) are capable to accept this charge speed. Standard range plus models can accept 170KW.

----------


## richardchan2002

From some quick googling it looks like the 800V (270kW) might or might not translate into a significant difference when it comes to charge time. Some sources say the Tesla is faster, others say the Porsche is faster. I suppose the 800V might allow for lower temperatures as the current would be halved as compared to 400V resulting in less losses to heat but not sure if it makes a difference in the real world.

----------


## ExtraSlow

I like to sleep at least 7 hour a night, and it takes me at least a few minutes on each end to brush my teeth and eat breakfast. No biggie really for overnight charging speeds.

----------


## rage2

> From some quick googling it looks like the 800V (270kW) might or might not translate into a significant difference when it comes to charge time. Some sources say the Tesla is faster, others say the Porsche is faster. I suppose the 800V might allow for lower temperatures as the current would be halved as compared to 400V resulting in less losses to heat but not sure if it makes a difference in the real world.



What sources say Tesla is faster? The rates are peak rates, everything I’ve seen has Tesla slowing down much earlier than the Taycan. By 80% Tesla slows down to a crawl, while the Taycan goes hard till 95%. The trick there is that the Taycan battery is oversized and capacity reserved just for this situation, it only uses 85% of the battery’s full capacity to allow this to happen reliably. 

These charge rates only matter for road trips anyways.

----------


## never

> I like to sleep at least 7 hour a night, and it takes me at least a few minutes on each end to brush my teeth and eat breakfast. No biggie really for overnight charging speeds.



You eat breakfast before you go to bed? Interesting!

----------


## benyl

> These charge rates only matter for road trips anyways.



 :Werd!: 
I plugged in 15 minutes ago. An 800v battery wont help me when I can only get 200v at 30amps.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> You eat breakfast before you go to bed? Interesting!



Right after I brush my teeth, apparently.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Hat tip to Tesla for building a million automobiles. Amazing.

----------


## rage2

Congrats on beating a month of VW production.  :Wink:

----------


## bjstare

> Hat tip to Tesla for building a million automobiles. Amazing.



It's easy to pump out big volume when you only have to put up a big tent to build them in and don't do any QA/QC.

----------


## The Cosworth

Not specific to Tesla but:




> According to a Dutch study, previous calculations relied on mistaken premises.
> The fact that people have to charge their EVs is both their primary strength and supposedly their Achilles heel at the same time. Electricity is the most efficient means to move around, but EV critics say that advantage goes down the drain if coal power plants are in the grid. That fallacy is not the only one around EVs and GHG (greenhouse gases) emissions. A Dutch study claims all numbers so far, even the best ones, are wrong.
> 
> In other words, electric cars would indirectly emit much less carbon and other gases than previous studies based on six main mistakes they made. The study  conducted by Auke Hoekstra and Professor Maarten Steinbuch, from the Eindhoven University of Technology  lists them one by one.



Source: https://insideevs.com/news/441944/el...h-less-carbon/

----------


## bjstare

Are Tesla’s getting any better? In terms of performance variants, build quality, etc. 

Some of the journalists I follow are generally saying they’re awesome (eg Jason Cammisa on the model y performance)

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Are Tesla’s getting any better? In terms of performance variants, build quality, etc. 
> 
> Some of the journalists I follow are generally saying they’re awesome (eg Jason Cammisa on the model y performance)



https://thedriven.io/2020/05/07/wort...-a-test-drive/

Watch Sandy's tear downs. Model 3 was poor. Model Y was phenomenal. Elon just said that they are going to unveil a completely different way of constructing the Model Y on battery day (Sep 22).
They still don't play well with Apple so that sucks for the Aspen people.

----------


## rage2

The Model Y forums are still littered with delivery rejections, paint mismatch, gaps. It’s a roll of the dice but luckily you can just reject till you get a good car if you can wait it out.

----------


## J-D

> The Model Y forums are still littered with delivery rejections, paint mismatch, gaps. It’s a roll of the dice but luckily you can just reject till you get a good car if you can wait it out.



Maybe someone can figure out a way to import a German made model Y  :thumbs up:

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Mom's model y is perfect like the cute and nice staff at the Calgary store.

----------


## shakalaka

I feel as though I have started to like the idea of a Tesla as time goes on and don't think I'd mind owning one at some point. But don't think it can be my only car.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Who owns only one car nowadays?

----------


## benyl

> Mom's model y is perfect like the cute and nice staff at the Calgary store.



Your mom get an MYP? How’s the body roll. I should go in and take one for a test drive.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Very little roll and nose dive compared to other SUVs. The 3 is obviously more nimble but the Y is excellent for its class. Tons of cargo room (probably triple the size vs the 3) makes the trade off well worth it. This will be their most popular vehicle until their designed in China Honda Fit killer is released.

Now that you have asked, you have to use my referral code. This is the way.

Edit: mom found your modelmayhem profile and said that you can come test out chill mode with her.

----------


## J-D

> I feel as though I have started to like the idea of a Tesla as time goes on and don't think I'd mind owning one at some point. But don't think it can be my only car.



I have a 3 as my DD, it's exceeded my expectations so far but I haven't had any issues with it. Not having to stop for gas is a plus, not having to change oil and drive to the stupid fire hall to get rid of it, and driving to Vancouver was way less hassle than I thought it would be charging wise.

My concerns still:
If something actually happens, how long will I be without the car? There are definitely some horror stories on the service side out thereLong weekend charging lineups could be AWFUL, have seen lots of pictures from California that look brutal haha Road tripping somewhere outside of fast chargers. We'll probably just take our other vehicle or rent something though.

----------


## max_boost

> Who owns only one car nowadays?



Me and do you think a model 3 will suit me? And would you go with me if I wanted to buy one? Bro date

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Me and do you think a model 3 will suit me? And would you go with me if I wanted to buy one? Bro date



Get the Y for now. Better engineering and much more cargo space. If you want a 3, I would wait for Uncle Benyl to upgrade to a Y and gently lowball him.  :Smilie: 

Definitely take the 3, Y, and S for a spin. Tesla rep Stefan is pretty awesome. Bring the ginger beef. Beyond meet at the Tesla store?

I am going to trade in my older vehicle for a BBQ soon so I will be down to 1 car.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

X3M Comp and GLC63s smokes the more expensive twin turbocharged city Model Y.

----------


## heavyD

> X3M Comp and GLC63s smokes the more expensive twin turbocharged city Model Y.



I hate that everyone is imitating CarWow with their amateur drag races as at least Mat Watson and his guys know how to launch the vehicles properly. The driver didn't even use launch control on the X3M as it's car lengths behind off the line.

----------


## BerserkerCatSplat

> Are Tesla’s getting any better? In terms of performance variants, build quality, etc. 
> 
> Some of the journalists I follow are generally saying they’re awesome (eg Jason Cammisa on the model y performance)



Model Y owners are now reporting that the Liquid Cooled Condensor on recently-built vehicles is supported by surplus faux-oak trim. Evidently that cooler wasn't designed to be mounted horizontally, hence the strap and interesting cushion material.

----------


## rage2

> Model Y owners are now reporting that the Liquid Cooled Condensor on recently-built vehicles is supported by surplus faux-oak trim. Evidently that cooler wasn't designed to be mounted horizontally, hence the strap and interesting cushion material.



Wouldn’t that thing get hot as hell if it’s a condenser? That doesn’t look like trim. That literally looks like a piece of corner moulding from home depot lol.

I didn’t know 
@LUDELVR
 engineered at Tesla as a side gig.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

It's a bonus. Oak is more expensive than plastic. 

Original thread: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...odel-y.205922/

Found on 8:25 here.

----------


## LUDELVR

> Wouldnt that thing get hot as hell if its a condenser? That doesnt look like trim. That literally looks like a piece of corner moulding from home depot lol.
> 
> I didnt know 
> @LUDELVR
>  engineered at Tesla as a side gig.



Everyone needs a side gig nowadays and with covid hitting the classrooms as quickly as it is, I'll definitely have to step it up!

----------


## BerserkerCatSplat

> Wouldn’t that thing get hot as hell if it’s a condenser? That doesn’t look like trim. That literally looks like a piece of corner moulding from home depot lol.
> 
> I didn’t know 
> @LUDELVR
>  engineered at Tesla as a side gig.



Yeah that's what I meant by trim, haha. It looks like MDF with a plastic oak-print applique. Yeah I bet she gets pretty warm.

----------


## richardchan2002

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-y-o...1844999285/amp

Apparently some cars come with plastic some come with wood. This is hidden behind the trunk moulding. The reason it was discovered is because some one was trying to fix the panel gaps in his model Y after Tesla refused to fix them.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Worst cars ever. Time to ditch this trash for a Lucid Air.

----------


## benyl

> Worst cars ever. Time to ditch this trash for a Lucid Air.



I watched bits and pieces of the recording of their live stream. The headlights are interesting. The power they get out of the motors is cool. The price, not cool. haha

----------


## rage2

> I watched bits and pieces of the recording of their live stream. The headlights are interesting. The power they get out of the motors is cool. The price, not cool. haha



For that kinda money I'd just get a Taycan and call it a day.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

They are following the Tesla masterplan from like 10 years ago. Start with a more expensive car, use the proceeds to develop a cheaper car, then repeat. 

Lucid's batteries are less efficient, but it's good to see a competitor in the field to keep pushing technology forward and prices down. The interior did seem to feature the Taycan style curved screen, and they didn't show the executive seat in the back like you would get in an S class. They are aiming really high, especially with the target to build a factory in 8 months.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Model S Plaid available for pre-order. 





They think they can shave another 3 seconds off the lap. Not bad for a domestic.




Quite the list. My screencap software sucks so you don't see the Porsche Boxster at #17. Randy Probst is good at driving.

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

@benyl

----------


## benyl

The thought has crossed my mind many times this week. 

Just hate that it’s based on a 9 year old design. 

Cheap for 1100hp and a gauntlet drop on Lucid and Porsche. 

I actually can’t wait to see what the performance version of the $25k small car will be. The structural battery should make it much lighter than the 3.

I’m not one to drink Kool-aid, but the big 3 are fucked in California if they don’t get their shit together.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> The thought has crossed my mind many times this week. 
> 
> Just hate that it’s based on a 9 year old design. 
> 
> Cheap for 1100hp and a gauntlet drop on Lucid and Porsche. 
> 
> I actually can’t wait to see what the performance version of the $25k small car will be. The structural battery should make it much lighter than the 3.
> 
> I’m not one to drink Kool-aid, but the big 3 are fucked in California if they don’t get their shit together.



 :Smilie:  I would love for someone on Beyond to get a roadster. 

And yes. They should re-design at least the interior of the Plaid.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Model S Plaid available for pre-order. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They think they can shave another 3 seconds off the lap. Not bad for a domestic.
> 
> 
> ...



So, it's 19 seconds slower than a diesel Audi?
Hydrocarbon fuels ain't going nowhere!

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> So, it's 19 seconds slower than a diesel Audi?
> Hydrocarbon fuels ain't going nowhere!



I didn't want to mention the Honda. Yes, it's an embarassment.

This is how they are going to get the cars so rigid. The new battery pack technology will be used to increase rigidity of the structure.

----------


## benyl

> I didn't want to mention the Honda. Yes, it's an embarassment.
> 
> This is how they are going to get the cars so rigid. The new battery pack technology will be used to increase rigidity of the structure.



that was an awkward end to the video...

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> that was an awkward end to the video...



He's an engineer.

----------


## rage2

Out of curiosity, what’s Tesla doing that’s different than other battery companies? I haven’t been following Tesla as much as I want to these days, but others such as CATL and even GM are doing the same thing aren’t they? Eliminate cobolt, drop price under $100/kwh, structural batteries and to match ICE drivetrain costs. I thought GM and LG are the first to crack $100/kwh with their battery destined for the hummer EV?

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Out of curiosity, what’s Tesla doing that’s different than other battery companies? I haven’t been following Tesla as much as I want to these days, but others such as CATL and even GM are doing the same thing aren’t they? Eliminate cobolt, drop price under $100/kwh, structural batteries and to match ICE drivetrain costs. I thought GM and LG are the first to crack $100/kwh with their battery destined for the hummer EV?



I will find you a video sir. Actually the battery day presentation explains a ton seeing that you ain't afraid of a little science. The others aren't doing the same thing. Not even close.

Ultium won't be able to match. No way.

----------


## rage2

Gimme a TLDW haha. I just want to know what they’re doing different than CATL and GM/LG who are the leaders right now in terms of said goals. Everyone is going to have different approaches, I’m curious how the end game is different.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

I will do a recap of battery day in the investments section. 

TL;DW - alien battery tech is going to allow cars to go vroom vroom faster, longer, harder while reducing costs. The $25k car will be the first car to hit price parity with gasoline cars (cheaper when you factor in maintenance). They are already making the new batteries in their pilot plant. There is one further improvement (dry coating) that they need to iron out in probably in the next 1 to 1.5 years.

Performance wise:

1) New tabless batteries run cooler, can be packed closer to the middle, is more efficient, and cheaper to produce despite being larger in size individually (10% less mass compared to current technology). Packing the batteries closer to the middle allows the car to handle better on corners and decreases likelihood of puncture from side impacts. The analogy was a figure skater spinning faster with arms in vs arms out.

2) The new tech allows them to cool the batteries axially rather than on the edges. This means that they fill the gaps in between the batteries with a some kind of an adhesive. This increases structural rigidity. They said that a convertible will be as rigid as a regular vehicle. This is drawing from airplanes which has their fuel stored in the wings. The difference is that jet fuel is liquid and is depleted over time, while batteries maintain rigidity.

3) Giga casting. They're currently casting at least the back end of the Model Y into 2 parts. At some point in the future, they could cast the front, back, and joint them with the battery structure. Saves costs, eliminates a lot of body work, parts, and increases rigidity as well.

There's a lot more that the market hasn't figured out what to do with the info yet.

----------


## ExtraSlow

I'm sure I said somewhere on beyond that better battery tech was a really important key for all sorts of green energy projects, not just cars, but distributed generation as well.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> I'm sure I said somewhere on beyond that better battery tech was a really important key for all sorts of green energy projects, not just cars, but distributed generation as well.



Yes. Solar, Wind, future F150s. Tesla's going to start producing their own batteries because the world isn't making enough...and cost effectively.

----------


## benyl

What RJ didn’t mention is that the new battery tech drops the cost investment per GWH 69% 



It’s not clear if the Model S Plaid is getting the new battery tech, but my guess is the Cybertruck will.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

69.420%.  :Wink:

----------


## benyl

My SIL picked up a new Model Y yesterday. 

The VIN she was originally assigned didn’t pass the SC inspection. She got another one last minute. It was pretty good. Paint was better that both my Model 3s. There was a couple of spots with dust under the paint. The gaps were good except for the rear driver door. Of course it was in “spec.”

Fuck the stock wheels are ugly. Those covers need to come off. Haha.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

She has good taste. A/s/l?

Edit: A free tip for the 
@benyl
 SIL. Order the TPMS for the winter wheels right away. The Y uses a new Bluetooth tech that you can't get from third parties yet and it could take a few weeks to get in.

----------


## supe

> Gimme a TLDW haha. I just want to know what they’re doing different than CATL and GM/LG who are the leaders right now in terms of said goals. Everyone is going to have different approaches, I’m curious how the end game is different.



My take, vertical integration. Tesla will design batteries that exactly fit the requirement while lowering prices. Iron based batteries for lower range requirements, and nickel based for more performance/range. At the end of the day two companies working together will cost more to the consumer than one company executing efficiently and effectively. Tesla is doing just that and batteries is just one example of many. Software/autopilot, charging infrastructure and service are all other examples.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

They can extract lithium using table salt man!
/stoner

----------


## Xtrema

How does Tesla windshield hold up in our winters?

How long of a wait for replacement if cracked? Will any shop do it or have to go back to Tesla?

----------


## benyl

> How does Tesla windshield hold up in our winters?
> 
> How long of a wait for replacement if cracked? Will any shop do it or have to go back to Tesla?



They are no better or worse than MB, Toyota or Ford. You don’t have to go to Tesla. They will send you to Glassmasters. I think only OEM glass is available.

it used to be that you had to visit Tesla to calibrate the cameras, but they’ve added a button in the software for self-serve.

----------


## Xtrema

> They are no better or worse than MB, Toyota or Ford. You don’t have to go to Tesla. They will send you to Glassmasters. I think only OEM glass is available.
> 
> it used to be that you had to visit Tesla to calibrate the cameras, but they’ve added a button in the software for self-serve.



Good to know. BIL just got a Model 3 and he goes thru windshield every year or so. But probably last longer with WFH these days.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> How does Tesla windshield hold up in our winters?
> 
> How long of a wait for replacement if cracked? Will any shop do it or have to go back to Tesla?



$2k for the Y. Probably slightly less for the 3 and more for the X. About 2 week wait depending on how busy their shop is.
Can city potholes cause windshield cracks?

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

This guy's E-tron is really an etron. Quite a surprise.

----------


## Xtrema

At least it won't let you stranded randomly like Polestar 2.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/p...s-report-says/

----------


## Xtrema

Also 
@The_Rural_Juror
 is doing such a fine job, Tesla just removed the whole PR department.

https://electrek.co/2020/10/06/tesla...pr-department/

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Also 
> @The_Rural_Juror
>  is doing such a fine job, Tesla just removed the whole PR department.
> 
> https://electrek.co/2020/10/06/tesla...pr-department/



I sold a Tesla to my uber driver. I must now hang out with Kayleigh McEnany.

----------


## rage2

> At least it won't let you stranded randomly like Polestar 2.
> 
> https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/p...s-report-says/



That’s probably the worst thing you can boast about comparing to a Tesla haha.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror



----------


## Xtrema

> 



He got the order wrong, it should be $42069.

----------


## richardchan2002

Those that bought Model S before the price drop(s) probably aren’t very excited about this news. 

The Model S is getting to be overdue for a model change/update so I’m not sure that Tesla has much choice if they want people to buy these.

----------


## ExtraSlow

I thought the whole business model was based on NOT doing regular hardware upgrades?

----------


## benyl

> I thought the whole business model was based on NOT doing regular hardware upgrades?



Most of the upgrades have been software. But the Tesla updates hardware all the time. They simply don’t wait for model years and just upgrade when the parts are available.

There is a pretty big difference between the 2012 Model S and the 2021. Touch points are all the same, but the hardware that runs the car has been constantly updated.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Most of the upgrades have been software. But the Tesla updates hardware all the time. They simply don’t wait for model years and just upgrade when the parts are available.
> 
> There is a pretty big difference between the 2012 Model S and the 2021. Touch points are all the same, but the hardware that runs the car has been constantly updated.



You sound like a fanboi. You probably bought some stonks too.  :Smilie:

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> I thought the whole business model was based on NOT doing regular hardware upgrades?



Hardware upgrades happen all the time. They are really stealthy. For instance, the Model Y trunk has already been slightly upgraded in the first month.
A recent software update allows the owner to put a PIN on their glove box. A future update will place a USB slot in the glove compartment for people who wants to put a storage for the camera recordings. 
After that, they have plans for turning the glove compartment into a microwave oven.

----------


## Xtrema

> Those that bought Model S before the price drop(s) probably aren’t very excited about this news. 
> 
> The Model S is getting to be overdue for a model change/update so I’m not sure that Tesla has much choice if they want people to buy these.



The whole point of price drop is to keep people away from Lucid Air.

Plus they put wireless charging in Model 3 like sometime last year and the flaps of the center stack the covers the phone compartment also feel way better than the original 3.

You will always have an inferior version of Tesla, doesn't matter when you bought it. Kinda like buying a TV. They don't stick to 3/3 MMC/FMC of traditional car makers.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> The whole point of price drop is to keep people away from Lucid Air.
> 
> Plus they put wireless charging in Model 3 like sometime last year and the flaps of the center stack the covers the phone compartment also feel way better than the original 3.
> 
> You will always have an inferior version of Tesla, doesn't matter when you bought it. Kinda like buying a TV. They don't stick to 3/3 MMC/FMC of traditional car makers.



It's important to note that they're undercutting Lucid pricing which includes the $7,500 (iirc) federal credit that Tesla doesn't have access to. The Lucid model is also RWD vs the $69,420 AWD version. 
They're doing it because they can. Model S is a small percentage of their sales.  :Smilie:

----------


## ExtraSlow

You guys sure edumacated me on Tesla hardware upgrades.

----------


## richardchan2002

Would the average person be able to spot the hardware updates? To me, the Model S doesn’t look like it’s changed since 2012.

I think the badge and the exterior design are the biggest distinctions for most people. Most people probably wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a BMW 330 vs 340 vs M3 if there was no lettering on the trunk.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Exactly. A debaged ZR2 looks like a basic Colorado.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Would the average person be able to spot the hardware updates? To me, the Model S doesn’t look like it’s changed since 2012.
> 
> I think the badge and the exterior design are the biggest distinctions for most people. Most people probably wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a BMW 330 vs 340 vs M3 if there was no lettering on the trunk.



Model S and X are definitely due for an update, but their focus is on making affordable vehicles so the updates have been put on the backburner. The expensive vehicles allowed them to fund the development of the more affordable vehicles. Same strategy Lucid is looking to us. I would think that there would be updates before Plaid is in production. There's a lot happening, including development of a $25k USD vehicle, so I don't blame them for being slow on updating their lower volume vehicles. 

In the next 3 years, they have these projects:

Updates: Model S, X + Plaid versions of these vehicles
New Vehicles: Semi, Cybertruck (+ smaller version), $25K car designed in China, a European designed car, ATV, Roadster 2, + likely Bus/Van
Factories: China Phase 2, Berlin, Austin, + likely India, + likely Ohio, + expansion of these factories to produce batteries, + expansion of giga 1 and 2
Software: Full Self Drive (limited beta in 2-4 weeks to limited testers), whatever new features they come up with
Battery: 3 different formulations, electrode dry coating, tabless construction
HVAC: Home HVAC based off what they developed for Tesla and SpaceX
Solar: Powerwall + Solar Roof 3
Other stuff: wiring substructure, laser windshield wipers (for real), moar casting, state of the art paint in Berlin, stuff we don't know about.

They've got a lot on their plate. Another thing to note is that they recently slashed prices in China due to cheaper costs and tariff savings - so they are clearly not after large margins.

----------


## benyl

> You will always have an inferior version of Tesla, doesn't matter when you bought it. Kinda like buying a TV. They don't stick to 3/3 MMC/FMC of traditional car makers.



Not always true.

My 2019 September build didnt get the included garage door opener or the front trunk mat that the earlier 2019s got. I think really early 2019s also got the 14-50 adaptor included.

My 2020 December 2019 build, built 2.5 months later lots the grocery hooks and pocket door lights. It also was $1K more.

I think the latest 2020s dont come with floor mats, but come with the wireless charger and USB-C ports. Shit is always changing, not necessarily always for the better.

----------


## benyl

> Updates: Model S Plaid versions of these vehicles
> New Vehicles: Semi, Cybertruck (+ smaller version), $25K car designed in China



The Plaid and the $25K will get the new battery tech announced last month with the structural battery tray. The Model Y built in Europe will also get that battery tech and likely the one piece casting rear and front ends.

The Cybertruck should get the new battery. That is likely the only way they will get 800km range on the Tri-motor.

Toma drank the Kool-aid early when most of this shit was vapourware, but I can now see how Tesla tech is going to be hard to compete with. I think VW and the like have admitted as much.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

$25K will get the cheaper Lithium Iron Phosphate battery because the target market are urban dwellers in large cities where cost is more important than range, and it's a much smaller vehicle. The Model 3 SR+ in China recently switched to those batteries - reducing costs. The full nickel batteries are going into the Plaid S/CyberTruck and Roadster. Those are more expensive to produce. 

Model 3 got a slight refresh today with an additional 31 miles added to range (322 to 353), new wheel selection, powered trunk lid, de-chrome, and some interior changes. They will likely get the Octovalve + Heat Pump sometime in the next few months.

I wonder where Toma is now? He's the perfect amount of crazy/mad scientist.

----------


## benyl

> I wonder where Toma is now? He's the perfect amount of crazy/mad scientist.



Premium connectivity is free for Canadians.  I was going to subscribe this morning as mine was set to expire today (fuck, it already been a year since I picked up my car). Can't subscribe.

Likely a glitch, but I am hoping not.

I saw Toma post on a Canadian Model 3 facebook group, but the post got shutdown because he didn't search. lol

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Nice summary from u/RiptideNF77 in USD.




> Range Increases:
> 
> Model 3 Standard Range+ : 250 miles --> 263 miles (13 mile increase)
> 
> Model 3 Long Range: 322 miles --> 353 miles (31 mile increase)
> 
> Model 3 Performance: 299 miles --> 315 miles (16 mile increase)
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## benyl

I just want the power trunk. Hope they offer the ability to retrofit.

Wonder what is getting the additional range in the new cars (heat pump likely).

Doesn't explain the faster performance models.

----------


## benyl

So it looks like they added horsepower again in the 2020.40 release. Acceleration boost for existing cars show 0-60mph down to 3.7 from 3.9 seconds for the LR AWD. Model Y got similar updates.

I think if you take an updated performance car, with light 18" wheels and tires with 95% charge, getting sub 3.0sec 0-100 km/h will be easy now. The stock 20s are so heavy.

----------


## killramos

Are they ever going to make a car that isnt hideous?

Asking for SKR

----------


## benyl

> Are they ever going to make a car that isnt hideous?
> 
> Asking for SKR



ask Franz.

----------


## killramos

> ask Franz.



The original roadster wasn’t terrible looking. Likely because buddy had nothing to do with it.

----------


## benyl

> The original roadster wasn’t terrible looking. Likely because buddy had nothing to do with it.



That's cause it was a Lotus Elise.

----------


## killramos

I was trying to be funny...

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> I was trying to be funny...



I laffed.

----------


## SR54RNR

Joined the club recently, picked up a Y long range with full self driving. 
It’s a bit of a shock, how different everything is, but I’m liking it more every day.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Joined the club recently, picked up a Y long range with full self driving. 
> It’s a bit of a shock, how different everything is, but I’m liking it more every day.



Noice. Another '08 in the wild !

----------


## SR54RNR

> Noice. Another '08 in the wild !



Wat

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Wat



Your join date sir.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

FSD price raised again.

----------


## benyl

Maybe only in the US.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Maybe only in the US.



You da MVP.  :Love:

----------


## benyl

> You da MVP.



Be sure to use my referral link in my sig when you order your new car.  :Burn Out:

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Be sure to use my referral link in my sig when you order your new car.



I can't afford anything until 
@Buster
 makes me his Rudy.

More FSD videos out. This one is interesting because the car crosses lanes to give a bicyclist room at 3:30. I would be upset if Tesla spent more than $20 working on that "feature".

----------


## benyl

2021 Model confirmed to get double pane driver and passenger windows.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> 2021 Model confirmed to get double pane driver and passenger windows.



Why?!? These things must be virtually silent inside already. Aren't they?

----------


## rage2

> Why?!? These things must be virtually silent inside already. Aren't they?



Not really, you hear a ton of road noise with no engine drowning it out haha.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Not really, you hear a ton of road noise with no engine drowning it out haha.



Oh! Interesting.
My friend just bought a Model-3 Performance (because his i8 is an epic lemon, permanently in the shop) and so far he's thoroughly enjoying it.
/CoolStoryBro

He told me it rapes a Taycan Turbo in virtually every way, which also surprised me. What do these things have for tires that can lay down the nuclear traction needed for the acceleration?

----------


## benyl

PS4S come standard.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

They've been switching to Pirellis. Ma got P Zeros.  :Frown:

----------


## ganesh

> Oh! Interesting.
> My friend just bought a Model-3 Performance (because his i8 is an epic lemon, permanently in the shop) and so far he's thoroughly enjoying it.
> /CoolStoryBro
> 
> He told me it rapes a Taycan Turbo in virtually every way, which also surprised me. What do these things have for tires that can lay down the nuclear traction needed for the acceleration?



ROFL. All the reviews must be wrong.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> ROFL. All the reviews must be wrong.



ROFL. Which reviews are comparing a $90k car with a $180k+ car?
I do love the Taycan's interior and fake vroom vroom noises.

----------


## ganesh

> ROFL. Which reviews are comparing a $90k car with a $180k+ car?
> I do love the Taycan's interior and fake vroom vroom noises.



I am not disputing the Price point difference. However to claim that Model 3 performance is way better than a Taycan Turbo is little hard to believe. 
https://www.xautoworld.com/tesla/mod...-taycan-turbo/

----------


## 90_Shelby

> Oh! Interesting.
> My friend just bought a Model-3 Performance (because his i8 is an epic lemon, permanently in the shop) and so far he's thoroughly enjoying it.
> /CoolStoryBro
> 
> He told me it rapes a Taycan Turbo in virtually every way, which also surprised me. What do these things have for tires that can lay down the nuclear traction needed for the acceleration?



Not an exact comparison of what your friend claims but the Model S Performance definitely doesn't "rape" the Turbo S. What I find most interesting about this data is that after 2 hits with the Tesla the performance falls flat on its face. Crazy!

By the third 1/4 mile run the Tesla runs high 13's in the 1/4 from a [email protected] and 0-60 from 2.5 seconds to almost 5 seconds? Woof! Drain the battery 1/4? of the way and all performance is gone?  :crazy nut:  

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...s-performance/

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Not an exact comparison of what your friend claims but the Model S Performance definitely doesn't "rape" the Turbo S. What I find most interesting about this data is that after 2 hits with the Tesla the performance falls flat on its face. Crazy!
> 
> By the third 1/4 mile run the Tesla runs high 13's in the 1/4 from a [email protected] and 0-60 from 2.5 seconds to almost 5 seconds? Woof! Drain the battery 1/4? of the way and all performance is gone?  
> 
> https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...s-performance/



The degradation I had definitely heard about and it's amazing that Porsche has such repeatability.
I think he said something about a faster Nurburgring time and a 2.9s zero-60. So, stupid car magazine numbers, but whatever. I'm not up on any of those stats. I was surprised he said that was better but apparently there has been a recent software update that was a middle finger to Porsche.

----------


## benyl

Are you sure he has the model 3 and not the model S? Seems odd to compare a model 3 to the Taycan Turbo.

Yeah, Tesla's are fast given the right conditions. They aren't epic at lower states of charge. During Covid, I have only been charging my cars to 60%. They basically bounce between 40-60% which is the happy place for longevity. I have yet to lose to anyone at a light even at that low state of charge. It is a noticeable drop in power though.

I don't know if the issue is battery chemistry, Voltage (Taycan runs higher voltage) or if they engineered power delivery like that to preserve the battery. It's definitely compromise. I think the Taycans compromise on range.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

Yes, Model-3 but some trim of it called "Performance".

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> I am not disputing the Price point difference. However to claim that Model 3 performance is way better than a Taycan Turbo is little hard to believe. 
> https://www.xautoworld.com/tesla/mod...-taycan-turbo/



I dunno man. I'd expect that your bud drove the Taycan base 4S. Maybe it's because the 3 is smaller and feels like a go-kart more than the larger vehicle.

What an odd comparison from xautoworld. The Taycan also has a much larger battery pack. I'm not sure what they are referring to in the Model 3 launch control. There is none.
The comparable for the Taycan is the Model S, which is still cheaper and faster than the Porsche counterpart. Porsche probably feels more premium though.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> PS4S come standard.



Oh, so they already come with reasonably fancy tires. I didn't know what to expect.
I wonder how much better they can do with heated R-compound tires.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Oh, so they already come with reasonably fancy tires. I didn't know what to expect.
> I wonder how much better they can do with heated R-compound tires.



Track pack comes with Cup 2 tires.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Track pack comes with Cup 2 tires.



I think he mentioned that package but said it was a huge premium for few options.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> I think he mentioned that package but said it was a huge premium for few options.



You should go for a test drive, report back, and use my referral code.  :Smilie:

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> You should go for a test drive, report back, and use my referral code.



Can you even test drive them? I thought you just sort of bought them on your phone and waited! LoL!
What's a referral code earn you? 

I don't think Tesla is right for me, but I would enjoy that "full tank" feeling every morning. EV's should promote that, more.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> Are you sure he has the model 3 and not the model S? Seems odd to compare a model 3 to the Taycan Turbo.
> 
> Yeah, Tesla's are fast given the right conditions. They aren't epic at lower states of charge. During Covid, I have only been charging my cars to 60%. They basically bounce between 40-60% which is the happy place for longevity. I have yet to lose to anyone at a light even at that low state of charge. It is a noticeable drop in power though.
> 
> I don't know if the issue is battery chemistry, Voltage (Taycan runs higher voltage) or if they engineered power delivery like that to preserve the battery. It's definitely compromise. I think the Taycans compromise on range.



Is it charge level or heat that causes the massive degradation as shown in my link? And that’s not to say either of my vehicles are impervious to heat, the wagon is fairly noticeable but definitely not 3 seconds in the 1/4 mile noticeable (maybe 4mph in the 1/4). At 60% charge, i’d be curious on the differential in the 1/4 and 0-60.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Can you even test drive them? I thought you just sort of bought them on your phone and waited! LoL!
> What's a referral code earn you? 
> 
> I don't think Tesla is right for me, but I would enjoy that "full tank" feeling every morning. EV's should promote that, more.



Just free super charging miles for both of us. Mostly extend the expiry date on mine.  :Smilie: 

They let you take it for a drive at the store by yourself. On ramp to Glenmore then Blackfoot. Fun loop. They have the cars ready for you if you book an appointment. Never had anyone call me after I leave.

- - - Updated - - -




> Is it charge level or heat that causes the massive degradation as shown in my link? And that’s not to say either of my vehicles are impervious to heat, the wagon is fairly noticeable but definitely not 3 seconds in the 1/4 mile noticeable (maybe 4mph in the 1/4). At 60% charge, i’d be curious on the differential in the 1/4 and 0-60.



I have to find the article, but some guys did some testing a few months ago and the deterioration wasn't that bad.

Also. Turbo S should be compared against Plaid, which has an estimated 0-60 under 2.1. Performance S is about 2.5 and would line up against the Turbo.

----------


## benyl

> Is it charge level or heat that causes the massive degradation as shown in my link? And that’s not to say either of my vehicles are impervious to heat, the wagon is fairly noticeable but definitely not 3 seconds in the 1/4 mile noticeable (maybe 4mph in the 1/4). At 60% charge, i’d be curious on the differential in the 1/4 and 0-60.



Charge level in my experience. Here is a guy who launches 27 times in a row with no cool down time. Cooling isn’t an issue.




Here is testing that was done on early cars before the 5% power bump with another 5% power bump later again.

https://www.mountainpassperformance....t-various-soc/

I’ve posted this before. https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors...0160_kmh_peak/

After the two power bumps, the Performance car should have around 580hp. There was some sneaky update of the car last month that makes it feel like the car has even more power, but I could be wrong.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

There was an upgrade that increased fuel efficiency/range to match the 2021 EPA ratings but that wasn't advertised.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

:ROFL!:

----------


## benyl

> 



WTF. Unintended acceleration? Here come the class actions!

----------


## rage2

> Is it charge level or heat that causes the massive degradation as shown in my link? And that’s not to say either of my vehicles are impervious to heat, the wagon is fairly noticeable but definitely not 3 seconds in the 1/4 mile noticeable (maybe 4mph in the 1/4). At 60% charge, i’d be curious on the differential in the 1/4 and 0-60.



Low charge level on benyl’s model 3 performance made my e53 seem fast haha. Pretty much even from 60-200.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror



----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> 



I want to go to there .gif

----------


## RX_EVOLV

So my folks are in the market for a new midsize sedan and they are curious about the Model Y. Otherwise their top choice right now is the XC60 inscription. 

I'm going to check out the Y in person next week but any feedback from existing owners? My parents are in their early 70s- would this be too 'techy' for them?

----------


## ExtraSlow

> So my folks are in the market for a new midsize sedan and they are curious about the Model Y. Otherwise their top choice right now is the XC60 inscription. 
> 
> I'm going to check out the Y in person next week but any feedback from existing owners? My parents are in their early 70s- would this be too 'techy' for them?



Tell them to buy the non-hybrid xc60 and save the 10 to 15 thousand difference.

----------


## RX_EVOLV

> Tell them to buy the non-hybrid xc60 and save the 10 to 15 thousand difference.



Well that's the thing. We priced out the XC60 Inscription and it's $72K + tax , but $5.5K discount right now. Looks like the Model Y long range is only $70K+ tax. 

The XC60 Hybrid is $86K+

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Taycan is the only answer. It's going to be the beyond civic in a couple of years so you might as well get ahead of the curve. Volvo's owned by China now.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Well that's the thing. We priced out the XC60 Inscription and it's $72K + tax , but $5.5K discount right now. Looks like the Model Y long range is only $70K+ tax. 
> 
> The XC60 Hybrid is $86K+



I'm hungover so I can't check my Marth. Maybe it was a lower trim level. Unless they really love the Tesla, I don't think they'll like it at all, ya know?

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> I'm hungover so I can't check my Marth. Maybe it was a lower trim level. Unless they really love the Tesla, I don't think they'll like it at all, ya know?



 
@ExtraSlow
 needs to drive a Tesla so he can trash talk it fo realz. Bring a GoPro to the test drive.  :Smilie:

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

I severely doubt someone in their early 70's would select a Tesla. Particularly a Tesla over a Volvo.

----------


## benyl

> So my folks are in the market for a new midsize sedan and they are curious about the Model Y. Otherwise their top choice right now is the XC60 inscription. 
> 
> I'm going to check out the Y in person next week but any feedback from existing owners? My parents are in their early 70s- would this be too 'techy' for them?



Can your parents operate a smart phone? The Model Y is a giant smartphone on wheels.

There are a couple of quirks that you might have to explain to them. Things like the TPMS being pretty sensitive because Elon wants you to keep your tires inflated for efficiency. 

Id be happy to give them a rundown, socially distanced of course of the car if they buy one. The overview Tesla gives takes 10 minutes and then they shove you out the door. Lol

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

I have never had TPMS warnings. Are you heavy or something?  :ROFL!:

----------


## killramos

> Can your parents operate a smart phone? The Model Y is a giant smartphone on wheels.
> 
> There are a couple of quirks that you might have to explain to them. Things like the TPMS being pretty sensitive because Elon wants you to keep your tires inflated for efficiency. 
> 
> I’d be happy to give them a rundown, socially distanced of course of the car if they buy one. The overview Tesla gives takes 10 minutes and then they shove you out the door. Lol



I got my parents a smart tv this summer. Big mistake. Continuous tech support required. 

They also aren’t even close to 70.

----------


## RX_EVOLV

> Can your parents operate a smart phone? The Model Y is a giant smartphone on wheels.
> 
> There are a couple of quirks that you might have to explain to them. Things like the TPMS being pretty sensitive because Elon wants you to keep your tires inflated for efficiency. 
> 
> Id be happy to give them a rundown, socially distanced of course of the car if they buy one. The overview Tesla gives takes 10 minutes and then they shove you out the door. Lol



Appreciate the offer. I would imagine if they end up buying a Tesla I would probably drive it for a week and then teach them how to use it and be on standby to troubleshoot. 

I'm already expecting to have to do this even with the XC60 given the touchscreen control and stuff. I couldn't even figure out myself how to use/test the self-parking function on the test drive.

----------


## JustinL

I just picked this one up on Saturday. It's a 2021 standard range plus. I had a fun drive back to Beaumont learning all the features etc. The car told me it would make it without a charge with a predicted arrival battery level of 11%, but I didn't want to take the chance getting stranded on my first drive so I stopped in Gasoline Alley for a quick supercharge. So far it's a pretty fun car and in some ways very different from other cars, but it's still pretty easy to drive. It does so many things automatically that it does take some trust building. I'm not used to a car doing quite so much and I've been fighting with some of the systems like the auto high beams and cruise control. I expected it to be a lot slower than it is being the RWD version, but it is definitely not slow. Winter tires and wheels are on now and we're ready to rock for the season.

----------


## RX_EVOLV

Nice! Did it qualify for the federal EV rebate?

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Nice! Did it qualify for the federal EV rebate?



I don't think it does. Only the special menu SR- qualifies, but no one buys that in Canada.

Congratulations 
@JustinL
!!!

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

For prospective buyers, here are a list of things that may interest you.

1) High Endurance MicroSD card for the dash/sentry cam: https://www.amazon.ca/SanDisk-Endura...s%2C195&sr=8-1

2) Floor Mats: Model 3 can be purchased at costco.ca and on the Tesla website. Tesmanian sells Model Y: https://www.tesmanian.com/collection...-mats-full-set

3) NEMA 14-50 adapter (if you are planning on upgrading to 240v): https://shop.tesla.com/en_ca/product...-nema-adapters

4) Glass Roof Shade which are handy for summer road trips: Model 3: https://shop.tesla.com/en_ca/product...-roof-sunshade Model Y: https://www.tesmanian.com/collection...-roof-sunshade

5) Aerowheel Kit for Model 3: https://shop.tesla.com/en_ca/product...-wheel-cap-kit

6) Tesla Jack Pads for lifting: https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=tesla+jack...f=nb_sb_noss_2

7) Center console organizers: https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=tesla+cent..._sb_ss_sc_1_25

8) Leather protectant for white interiors: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00...&psc=1&fpw=alm

9) Insane mode onesie: https://shop.tesla.com/en_ca/product...?sku=100046605

----------


## JustinL

Yeah $5000 bucks off!

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Yeah $5000 bucks off!



Nice! It's so cheap now that everyone should get two.

----------


## benyl

> Nice! It's so cheap now that everyone should get two.



Now, now...

----------


## RX_EVOLV

That's tempting for the price. I've booked a test drive tomorrow - Model Y for my mom and Standard Range Model 3 for myself. Maybe the right setup is to have a gas guzzling V8 and a little EV city cruiser.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> That's tempting for the price. I've booked a test drive tomorrow - Model Y for my mom and Standard Range Model 3 for myself. Maybe the right setup is to have a gas guzzling V8 and a little EV city cruiser.



Don't be a pussy. Drive the performance too.  :Smilie: 

- - - Updated - - -




> Now, now...



One for every family member it is!

----------


## JustinL

I was waiting for the heat pump to make it into the Model3 before I pulled the trigger, but the rest of the updates to the 2021 made it an easy call. As I was driving the audi to Calgary, I was thinking that this was the furthest it had ever been from my garage. It makes complete sense to have a long range gas vehicle and an electric city runabout. If it's the only car, I think it would be better to have the longer range versions. 

The resale on the Model3 is also excellent, so if I don't like it, I think I could unload it in a year without taking too much of a hit.

----------


## benyl

> Don't be a pussy. Drive the performance too.



Don't do it. haha. I probably would have ended up with an AWD, but drove the performance first...

- - - Updated - - -




> I was waiting for the heat pump to make it into the Model3 before I pulled the trigger, but the rest of the updates to the 2021 made it an easy call. As I was driving the audi to Calgary, I was thinking that this was the furthest it had ever been from my garage. It makes complete sense to have a long range gas vehicle and an electric city runabout. If it's the only car, I think it would be better to have the longer range versions. 
> 
> The resale on the Model3 is also excellent, so if I don't like it, I think I could unload it in a year without taking too much of a hit.



The heat pump is huge value given out current temps. 15% better efficiency based on some youtubers.

I'd thought about trading for a 2021 because the resale is so good, but I was lucky to get free premium connectivity for life on both my cars. I am cheap, so that's worth more to me than better efficiency. LOL.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

I read something about the heat pumps not being as efficient in subzero temps but I don't recall what. 
Buy the performance just in case.

----------


## benyl

> I read something about the heat pumps not being as efficient in subzero temps but I don't recall what. 
> Buy the performance just in case.



It could be from 0 - 10C where it works best.

----------


## benyl

New Owner FAQ. My experience anyway:

*Cold Weather FAQ:*

Q. Does the car make weird noises and is it normal?
A. Yes. Car will runs pumps, motors and all sorts of things before and after a drive. If it hums, the car is usually doing something.

Q. Car "bangs" when supercharging?
A. When it's cold outside, thermal expansion causes the battery to make "banging" noises. Totally normal.

Q. What is the blue part on my battery status / what is the snowflake?
A. Your battery is cold and the energy in part of the battery is unavailable until it warms. The battery will warm with driving.

Q. How much does cold affect my range?
A. Depending on temperature, it can drop your range by 50% or more. This means that an SR+ range would drop to 200 ish kms when it is -20C to -30C. 
2021 Model 3 and all Model Y cars have a heat pump. This generally improves efficiency 15% when the temperature is mild (0C to 10C).

Q. Why do my wipers suck?
A. Tesla stock wipers have some shitty coating on the blades. Clean them with Alcohol. They work better.

Q. Wiper fluid only comes out at the bottom?
A. Yeah, someone in their infinite wisdom won't let you control when and where you want wiper fluid to come out. Applying while driving will have the remnants go all over your driver's side window. apply sparingly at speed.

Q. My car never gets XXX km as shown on my battery meter.
A. That's the theoretical maximum. Heater, headwind, fat asses, etc.. will all affect your range to the negative. Use the Energy graph if you really want an estimate of your range. People online all say, put it on "Percentage" and run it like your smartphone.

Q. How do I preheat my car and battery?
A. You can precondition your car by using the scheduled departure function on the charging menu in the car or by pressing the climate button in the app. 

*Charging FAQ:*

Q. Do I need a 240v connection?
A. Depends on your use case. A 120v 15A outlet will charge your car at 7km/h. With a Wall Connector (Sold by Tesla for $600) you can charge at 71km/h getting a full tank in about 5-7 hours. You can get a 14-50 Nema adaptor ($22) for the included connector that will charge at about 48km/h. I have survived on 120v, but when you decide to go out of town, you have take a visit to the supercharger to top up which might not be convenient.

Q. Max charge?
A. The guidance is to charge to 90% daily and plug in when the car is not in use. Anything above 90% should be reserved for trips. It is said a high SOC (State of Charge) damages the battery. It is also said a low state of charge damages the batter (below 10%). Therefore you real usable battery range is 80% of the stated range by Tesla for daily use.

*Member Referral codes:*

mo_money2supe: https://ts.la/simon82305
benyl: https://ts.la/moon14483

To be expanded.

----------


## RX_EVOLV

[QUOTE=The_Rural_Juror;4928223]Don't be a pussy. Drive the performance too.  :Smilie: 

hah I don't want to test drive something I can't afford, and have that constant reminder that life could be so much more as I drive the standard 3.

- - - Updated - - -




> New Owner FAQ. My experience anyway:
> 
> Cold Weather FAQ:
> 
> Q. Does the car make weird noises and is it normal?
> A. Yes. Car will runs pumps, motors and all sorts of things before and after a drive. If it hums, the car is usually doing something.
> 
> Q. Car "bangs" when supercharging?
> A. When it's cold outside, thermal expansion causes the battery to make "banging" noises. Totally normal.
> ...



So when you say the SR+ range could drop by like 50%.. do yo mean like you can fully charge it in the garage (lets say heated attached) and system shows 400km range, but as soon as you drive around in -20C weather for say 30 mins, the range will just go down twice as fast??

----------


## benyl

> So when you say the SR+ range could drop by like 50%.. do yo mean like you can fully charge it in the garage (lets say heated attached) and system shows 400km range, but as soon as you drive around in -20C weather for say 30 mins, the range will just go down twice as fast??




When you are driving in -20C or colder, your cabin heater runs between 4.8KW to 7KW. Each heated seat runs at about 500 watts.

That is what eats into your range. If you are out long enough and it is cold enough, the Model 3 and Y run the motors inefficiently to heat the battery. Battery temp has to drop below -7 for that to happen.

Pre-heating the car will help with all of that.

----------


## JustinL

I think the computer is constantly updating the range estimate, so if you are always driving around with the heat on, seat heaters, winter tires etc. in the winter it may not show you the optimal claimed range in your garage. I guess I'll find out. There's also a lot of thermal mass in the battery, so if you keep it in a heated garage it should need less battery heating and would stay warmer during a drive starting from the garage.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> When you are driving in -20C or colder, your cabin heater runs between 4.8KW to 7KW. Each heated seat runs at about 500 watts.
> 
> That is what eats into your range. If you are out long enough and it is cold enough, the Model 3 and Y run the motors inefficiently to heat the battery. Battery temp has to drop below -7 for that to happen.
> 
> Pre-heating the car will help with all of that.



You sound like a Tesla fanboi now. What happened? Are you Pro-OTA updates now? *gasp*
 :ROFL!:

----------


## benyl

> I think the computer is constantly updating the range estimate, so if you are always driving around with the heat on, seat heaters, winter tires etc. in the winter it may not show you the optimal claimed range in your garage. I guess I'll find out. There's also a lot of thermal mass in the battery, so if you keep it in a heated garage it should need less battery heating and would stay warmer during a drive starting from the garage.



That range is never right. You have to drive at the EPA rate which is 140wh / km for the SR+. That's really hard to do. The range on the energy graph is more accurate and updates near real time.

I drove to Edmonton and back yesterday. My EPA rating on the performance is 160wh /km. At 120km/h, I was burning at 220wh / km all the way to Edmonton. I set my cabin at 21 and leave it. No seat heaters were needed yesterday.

The drive back was at 130km/h (that's what traffic was moving at) and there was a quartering head wind. Burn rate was 240-250wh / km. When I left Edmonton, it said that to make it all the way home, I needed to stay below 105km/h.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> hah I don't want to test drive something I can't afford, and have that constant reminder that life could be so much more as I drive the standard 3.



Don't forget, electricity costs significantly less than gas to get the equivalent mileage out of your ICE car. At least that's how I justified purchasing my Performance 3.  :Burn Out:  I spent $300+/month previously filling up with 94-oct on my Audi S4 (stage 2 tuned). The Perf 3 is a full 1.0s faster in the 1/4 than the S4 (at our elevation anyway), yet it only costs me on average $30-$40/month on additional electricity. I drive about 20k kms/yr.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

^ this guy is the OG. 

Where's your referral code, bro?

----------


## benyl

> ^ this guy is the OG. 
> 
> Where's your referral code, bro?



lol.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> ^ this guy is the OG. 
> 
> Where's your referral code, bro?



Lol! I already have the rare, coveted unlimited lifetime Supercharging so referrals aren't needed anymore. But since you asked: https://ts.la/simon82305  :Angel: 

Not quite as beyond-OG as some of the others on here... I am definitely Tesla Perf 3 OG though - took delivery back in Sep 2018. I think mine was the second or third one in Alberta?! The wife recently picked up a Model X 90D too. Also has unlimited lifetime Supercharging. Mad EV rep points!

----------


## benyl

> Lol! I already have the rare, coveted unlimited lifetime Supercharging so referrals aren't needed anymore. But since you asked: https://ts.la/simon82305 
> 
> Not quite as beyond-OG as some of the others on here... I am definitely Tesla Perf 3 OG though - took delivery back in Sep 2018. I think mine was the second or third one in Alberta?! The wife recently picked up a Model X 90D too. Also has unlimited lifetime Supercharging. Mad EV rep points!



You paid for that supercharging with the higher MSRP. It will be worth it if you keep it for a long time.

Did you get lifetime connectivity too?

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Lol! I already have the rare, coveted unlimited lifetime Supercharging so referrals aren't needed anymore. But since you asked: https://ts.la/simon82305 
> 
> Not quite as beyond-OG as some of the others on here... I am definitely Tesla Perf 3 OG though - took delivery back in Sep 2018. I think mine was the second or third one in Alberta?! The wife recently picked up a Model X 90D too. Also has unlimited lifetime Supercharging. Mad EV rep points!



Put your code in your sig. I don't need more miles, I am at around 22k, I just need to extend my expiry date lol.

- - - Updated - - -




> You paid for that supercharging with the higher MSRP.



I'll one-up your negative Nancy and say that he paid for it with panel gaps too.  :ROFL!: 

Tesla people are cool.

----------


## benyl

> Put your code in your sig. I don't need more miles, I am at around 22k, I just need to extend my expiry date lol.



No, no, no. put my code in your sig. I only have 2,200. haha. I need MOAR

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

And the Model Y and Roadster giveaway that we will never win.
I will donate to charity for every referral I get.

----------


## benyl

> And the Model Y and Roadster giveaway that we will never win.
> I will donate to charity for every referral I get.



I'll add referral codes to the FAQ. You have to send me yours or post in your sig. Although you putting mine in your sig works for me.

----------


## mo_money2supe

Referral link in sig: done. Wouldn't mind winning a Roadster - ha!

Yup, paid for it dearly with a higher MSRP (a $5k USD credit was offered subsequent but we road trip a lot so decided to keep it) AND the panel gaps. No lifetime premium connectivity either, at least not on the 3...apparently only March 2019-March 2020 or thereabouts owners received it.  :Bang Head:  The wife's X has both free S/C and premium connectivity though. Big price to pay to be a Tesla OG! At least my TSLA shares have more than 10x.  :Love:  Just wish I bought more when they were relatively affordable.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Free test drives? Slut.

----------


## benyl

> Free test drives? Slut.



No kidding.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Free test drives? Slut.



 :Pooosie: 

Thanks for adding my referral to your sig!

----------


## SR54RNR

> New Owner FAQ. My experience anyway:
> 
> *Cold Weather FAQ:*
> 
> Q. Does the car make weird noises and is it normal?
> A. Yes. Car will runs pumps, motors and all sorts of things before and after a drive. If it hums, the car is usually doing something.
> 
> Q. Car "bangs" when supercharging?
> A. When it's cold outside, thermal expansion causes the battery to make "banging" noises. Totally normal.
> ...



Lol the washer sprayers are frustrating.. let me control the timing!

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Getting static shocked almost everytime when I am getting out the vehicle pisses me off so much that I bare butt it once I get in the car. That is my biggest complaint.

----------


## RX_EVOLV

Update ( Hope I don't piss anyone off here!) 

Test drove the 3 and the Y this afternoon. They felt exactly the same so no preference on either beside the size. 

Pros: fast + handles well. Auto pilot is neat. 

Cons: Lower interior quality, rough ride quality, loud cabin, and lack of features (minimal adjustment seats, no HUD, no heated steering wheel, average sound system, no sunroof, etc..)

Overall my parents don't like it and decided against it. However they are now curious at the plug in aspect of it, so they are now looking at PHEV options (XC60T8e, or X3e, or Q5e)

For myself I though the cars were interesting, but felt too much like driving a giant computer. After jumping back into the Cayenne I think I'll stick with my current setup for now.

----------


## benyl

2021 cars have a heated steering wheel. The software hasn’t been released yet.

Sound system on the SR+ isn’t great. It’s better on the LR. Still not MB, BMW, etc quality. 

There are more and more BEVs coming. Just wait a year or two.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Should have driven a performance over to the Trackhawk dealership.

----------


## ExtraSlow

I'm not kidding when I say you either love it, or don't like it at all. I think the middle ground is showing up over time, but that's been my experience with people I've talked to. 

Honestly, for 70 year olds, I think you could skip BEV, PHEV, and stick with gasoline.

----------


## 90_Shelby

> Should have driven a performance over to the Trackhawk dealership.



Trackhawk over Tesla if you want to use a roof mounted cargo box.

----------


## benyl

> I'm not kidding when I say you either love it, or don't like it at all. I think the middle ground is showing up over time, but that's been my experience with people I've talked to. 
> 
> Honestly, for 70 year olds, I think you could skip BEV, PHEV, and stick with gasoline.



Can’t teach an old dog new tricks eh?

For 70 year olds, BEVs are the best thing ever. No maintenance. No getting COVID from gas pumps. Just drive from your house to the Kirby center to get free Cobbs left over bread and back to your house and plug in.

There are plenty of decent BEVs out there that aren’t Tesla, but none have AWD under $70K. I have a deposit on an EQC and was hoping I would be in it already, but Mercedes decided that carbon credits in Europe were more important.

At this point though, for travel, you can’t really compete with the Supercharger network.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> I'm not kidding when I say you either love it, or don't like it at all. I think the middle ground is showing up over time, but that's been my experience with people I've talked to. 
> 
> Honestly, for 70 year olds, I think you could skip BEV, PHEV, and stick with gasoline.



Go drive a Performance. Pussy.  :Smilie:

----------


## ExtraSlow

Bev and PHEV are awesome. Not disputing.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

I need a larger garage for a Cybertruck and Bangbus EV in the upcoming years.

----------


## killramos

Owning 2 or 3 ev’s would certainly make them more convenient

----------


## JustinL

> Update ( Hope I don't piss anyone off here!)



I think your assessment is quite fair especially coming from a Cayenne, which has one of the best interiors in the business! The attraction for me was that I was sick of fixing stuff on the S4. The DSG fluid leak I was dealing with took a month for me to find and I got pretty tired of crawling around under it cleaning oil, changing gaskets etc. Once I had decided on a BEV, the selection of possibilities goes way down. Looking at prices of used Teslas is what drove me down the rabbit hole and then with the Federal incentive you can pretty much try out the car for a year without taking a bad hit. 

Why not put the Cayenne e-hybrid on the list for your parents? That's on my list of replacing the touareg when the time comes.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Owning 2 or 3 ev’s would certainly make them more convenient



Benyl parks one at work to charge while he drives the other one home. C'est normale.

- - - Updated - - -




> Update ( Hope I don't piss anyone off here!)



It's all good, mate!  :thumbs up:

----------


## RX_EVOLV

Their budget is not thattt high (for a Cayenne e-hybrid). Their budget is ~$70k, which is why we looked at the XC60 and Y. 

My parents have split opinion on what they want though. My dad believes (rightfully so) EV is the future and wants to try one before he dies (not really for gas $ saving reasons). My mom thinks they are old now and need to go for comfort and safety. That's why she loved the XC60 (massage seats, nappa leather, etc etc.. ) and thought the ride on the Y was too rough. 

The EV experience did open their eyes a little, so now they are willing to spend a little more (~$85-90K) and look at the PHEV versions of Volvo/BMW.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Their budget is not thattt high (for a Cayenne e-hybrid). Their budget is ~$70k, which is why we looked at the XC60 and Y. 
> 
> My parents have split opinion on what they want thought. My dad believes (rightfully so) EV is the future and wants to try one before he dies (not really for gas $ saving reasons). My mom thinks they are old now and needs to go for comfort and safety. That's why she loved the XC60 (massage seats, nappa leather, etc etc.. ) and thought the ride on the Y was too rough. 
> 
> The EV experience did open their eyes a little, so now they are willing to spend a little more (~$85-90K) and look at the PHEV versions of Volvo/BMW.



XC60 wins for sure on comfort. Tesla wins on safety by far. It's extremely difficult to roll over and you don't have an engine to crush your legs. AWD is better on the Tesla.

----------


## rage2

I can safely say that the AWD system in a Tesla isn’t any better than the AWD system in my Mercedes. When we were both traction limited in wet conditions, it was a dead heat. Once we got traction he pulled an immediate 1 car length on me because Tesla low end is just ridiculous, then we were dead even again to 200. 

I genuinely thought the Tesla was going to kill me right off the line in cold damp conditions. In theory it should but it doesn’t.

----------


## mo_money2supe

While many consider a PHEV as a middle ground, IMO, it gets the _worst_ of both worlds. Still have to pump gas and gas savings is minimal at best, still need to maintain the ICE, you lose out on the instant get-up and go torque and no-shift trannies (unless you're into the Taycan territory), you're still emitting exhaust, costs significantly more than their ICE counterparts, etc. Go all-in with a BEV or stay with an ICE. I'd personally choose the XC60 the most of the listed options.

I do agree, Model 3/Ys are great for people jumping in from a Honda/Toyota/Hyundai/Kia/etc. But if you're jumping in from any German brand, you're giving up on a lot on the luxuries. I had a hard time giving up my S4 but the power delivery and low (or lack thereof) maintenance ultimate won out. For long distance travelling at the current moment, Tesla wins hands down for their Supercharging network. Electrify America/Canada is a close second with VW/Audi/Porsche, but their pricing model is completely out to lunch. Only the likes of 89coupe can justify those costs!  :Wink:

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Electrify America/Canada is a close second with VW/Audi/Porsche, but their pricing model is completely out to lunch. Only the likes of 89coupe can justify those costs!



No he can't. That's why he bought a BMW. He's po'.

----------


## dj_rice

New Tesla dealership coming to Edmonton probably next year. Elon purchased the Ericksen Infiniti building. Lots of staff will be out of jobs as Infiniti is consolidating to just 1 dealership. 

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tes...onton-alberta/

----------


## benyl

> New Tesla dealership coming to Edmonton probably next year. Elon purchased the Ericksen Infiniti building.



Finally, people from YEG will stop with the wine about how they have to come to Calgary all the time. You’d think they would look for any excuse to leave YEG.  :Wink:

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

1 Year free unlimited supercharging for all Model 3 and Y deliveries between Dec 12 and 31.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Gotta goose those year end numbers.

----------


## JustinL

> New Tesla dealership coming to Edmonton probably next year.



That's good news. I'm hoping to not need any servicing done to mine, but it would be great if it could be done locally.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Laminated glass on the new 3 and Y?

----------


## Waldi

Getting one on Dec. 24, as otherwise would have to wait till March, guess there should be this little bonus of free charging/\.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

I just helped convince my friend to buy one of these:
https://unpluggedperformance.com/pro...ascia-model-3/

Have I accidentally made him a pariah?

----------


## ExtraSlow

Like the look. Saweet.

----------


## killramos

> I just helped convince my friend to buy one of these:
> https://unpluggedperformance.com/pro...ascia-model-3/
> 
> Have I accidentally made him a pariah?



Much improved, though it doesn’t really get much worse than the stock mode 3 bumper.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> I just helped convince my friend to buy one of these:
> https://unpluggedperformance.com/pro...ascia-model-3/
> 
> Have I accidentally made him a pariah?



Curious how much the final price comes out to after exchange, shipping, customs, priming/painting, etc. Keep us updated!

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Curious how much the final price comes out to after exchange, shipping, customs, priming/painting, etc. Keep us updated!



He told me "it was $4k" but yes, I'll definitely update after landing and fitment, etc.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Did you help convince your friend to buy the car first?

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Tesla Raj takes FSD down Lombard Street again.

----------


## J-D

> Finally, people from YEG will stop with the wine about how they have to come to Calgary all the time. Youd think they would look for any excuse to leave YEG.



Except their service center is going to look way less dumpy than ours, lol.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Snake jazz, ice cream van, and farts on the external speaker are here.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Sauce is at the bottom.

----------


## Jlude

Just got an alert that FSD computer upgrade is ready for my Model S.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Just got an alert that FSD computer upgrade is ready for my Model S.



Nice. I think they shut down the S and X line for 18 days to re-tool for a refresh. Should be exciting.

----------


## Jlude

> Nice. I think they shut down the S and X line for 18 days to re-tool for a refresh. Should be exciting.



I can't see it being much different than the 3/Y, they can't blow a bunch of money on this, although that doesn't mean they won't.

----------


## supe

If they make the X a lot better, I'm in

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> If they make the X a lot better, I'm in



If they make the S a lot better, I'm plaid.

Can't believe the upgrades to the MIC Y already. Biodefense mode, wood panel, heated steering wheel...

----------


## heavyD

I've seen a few TSB's over my time but this is more than a little concerning. Vehicles being shipped with suspension fasteners missing is pretty scary stuff. Stay safe my Tesla driving comrades.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/38579/...ng-and-serious

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

I think this one is probably 4-5 months old. I recall a bunch of people checking to ensure that it was installed and tight.

----------


## benyl

> I've seen a few TSB's over my time but this is more than a little concerning. Vehicles being shipped with suspension fasteners missing is pretty scary stuff. Stay safe my Tesla driving comrades.
> 
> https://www.thedrive.com/news/38579/...ng-and-serious



Yeah. The TSB on the chargeport door not being aligned is hillarious. Basically bash it with a hammer and then apply touch up paint. One of my cars doesn't have it flush. I asked the mobile ranger if he would do it for me. For once, I was "out of spec" but then he looked at me and said "do you really want me to bash your car with a hammer?" I told him that I am good being "out of spec."

----------


## killramos

Couldn’t even get some free supercharging out of them for it or something?

----------


## benyl

Nope.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Model Y Standard Range is out starting at $56k CAD. 393km range. 0-100km/h in 5.6s.
Available in 7 seater (2 rear seats are likely for small people).

----------


## Xtrema

> Model Y Standard Range is out starting at $56k CAD. 393km range. 0-100km/h in 5.6s.
> Available in 7 seater (2 rear seats are likely for small people).



So close. drop that MSRP to $55K and make 7 seat standard and it would qualify for $5K rebate.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Huge number of vehicles effected. Voluntary recall not done, NTHSA is still working. Thoughts and prayers if you own one of the impacted vehicles: 
https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/tesl...tion-1.5266129

----------


## hurrdurr

> So close. drop that MSRP to $55K and make 7 seat standard and it would qualify for $5K rebate.



I find it odd that they didn't aim for the $55k with 5 seat for the standard range. That would add a lot of incentive for people on the fence for a crossover. I would probably be interested in the Y SR if it qualified for the federal rebate.

It's too bad that the SR+ are RWD

----------


## JustinL

> I find it odd that they didn't aim for the $55k with 5 seat for the standard range. That would add a lot of incentive for people on the fence for a crossover. I would probably be interested in the Y SR if it qualified for the federal rebate.
> 
> It's too bad that the SR+ are RWD



I've been driving my SR+ this winter with decent studded tires and it's really not that bad. The traction control is very responsive. I've also been reading about the system in the AWD models and it seems that they don't use the front motor until rear wheel slip is detected or a high input is given from the accelerator pedal. So most of the time they are driving around on the rear motor anyway. I was also worried that the regen coming from the rear axle would destabilize the car, but the system seems smart enough to back off if slip on decel is detected. That's the same in the AWD models as they don't use the front motor for regenerative braking. The biggest downside I've found is that there isn't a way to reduce the stability and traction control very much beyond "slip start". It's very hard to get the back end to move sideways at all.

----------


## benyl

> I've been driving my SR+ this winter with decent studded tires and it's really not that bad. The traction control is very responsive. I've also been reading about the system in the AWD models and it seems that they don't use the front motor until rear wheel slip is detected or a high input is given from the accelerator pedal. So most of the time they are driving around on the rear motor anyway. I was also worried that the regen coming from the rear axle would destabilize the car, but the system seems smart enough to back off if slip on decel is detected. That's the same in the AWD models as they don't use the front motor for regenerative braking. The biggest downside I've found is that there isn't a way to reduce the stability and traction control very much beyond "slip start". It's very hard to get the back end to move sideways at all.



Yep, this is my experience. You end up replacing rear tires faster, not because of the acceleration, but the decel (regen). Idiots on the internet and facebook don't believe me. If you use scan my Tesla, you can see the front motor rarely engages on decel.

----------


## killramos

I’m no EIT. But braking the rear axle always works super well right?

----------


## benyl

> I’m no EIT. But braking the rear axle always works super well right?



Sure does!  :facepalm: 

There is always room for improvement I guess.

----------


## killramos

Big shockerroo why the rear tires are getting rekt

That’s ok, Tesla is a tech company not a car company.

----------


## JustinL

I would be shocked if the rear tires got "rekt" from regen braking. It's not _that_ strong; It's comparable to downshifting a high compression manual car. I was worried about it in slippery conditions, but honestly it's not like ripping the e-brake. If it slips, it backs off immediately. Modulating torque with an electric motor is very precise and has much less lag than trying to do it with the brakes.

----------


## rage2

Funny, when I was having a run with benyl in not the greatest conditions, I saw his car fishtail/recover 7-8x at high speeds on a curve on cold wet roads. Was pretty sketchy to look at from behind (you know because I lost haha), battle of regen vs traction control there. I thought the road was black ice or something at the time. Was just shocked at how much regen there was to lose traction going 200.

----------


## benyl

This is the difference from new after one winter and maybe 6K km. 

Front:





Rear:

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

Ho. Lee. Fuck.
That's unacceptable. But... I guess it's a very heavy vehicle. Can you get proper winter tires with a suitable load rating for these vehicles?

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Benyl manicures.

----------


## gretz

Sooooo, I’m considering taking the plunge on one of these girls, any recommendations on model 3 vs s opinions? Rebates being offered/ less known ones? Winter issues being battery powered and all? Doos and do nots? New vs used? I commute quite a bit and am hoping for some solid opinions. I have an 08 gs350 awd right now, would it be worth the upgrade? Hit me up guys

----------


## killramos

Dos  Be Rich

Donts  Think too hard, YOLO

----------


## bjstare

> Sooooo, I’m considering taking the plunge on one of these girls, any recommendations on model 3 vs s opinions? Rebates being offered/ less known ones? Winter issues being battery powered and all? Doos and do nots? New vs used? I commute quite a bit and am hoping for some solid opinions. I have an 08 gs350 awd right now, would it be worth the upgrade? Hit me up guys



Lmk when you want to sell your GS350.

----------


## LLLimit

Winter & cold weather reading if you want to nerd out:
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors...on_effects_of/
iirc, Wugz is out of Edmonton so it's fairly relevant.

240v charger in the garage & underground parking 120v at work. Range is not a concern because I'm fortunate to be plugged in minimum 18hours/day.
In reality, it's a great winter machine:
-warms up interior near-instantly, in the garage w/o exhaust fumes
-at -30C, just start driving no need to warm up anything
-immense & significant energy loss at very cold temps because you use up the battery for creature comforts.


The only rebate in Alberta is $5000 from izev, Tesla kindly subtracts this cost at time of purchase and does the paperwork internally.
The current Model 3 SR+ is good (subjective) value because of izev. 
Fit & finish not commensurate with price, but the acceleration & technology makes up for it, mostly.

----------


## LLLimit

oh yeah the paint job is embarrassing.
Spend a couple bucks to wrap the whole thing in PPF.

----------


## JustinL

> Sooooo, Im considering taking the plunge on one of these girls, any recommendations on model 3 vs s opinions? Rebates being offered/ less known ones? Winter issues being battery powered and all? Doos and do nots? New vs used? I commute quite a bit and am hoping for some solid opinions. I have an 08 gs350 awd right now, would it be worth the upgrade? Hit me up guys



The best value is the Model 3 SR+ with the federal rebate. You need a place to charge it at home with 240V minimum, relying on destination or supercharging is a no go in my opinion especially with the shorter range SR+. To get the rebate it has to be new and the price of used ones are a little to high to make them worthwhile. On the flip side though, you could unload it without much of a loss if you don't like it.

The fit and finish is a bit of a roll of the dice, some seem pretty good, but I've heard of quite a few that aren't as well put together. It is a cheaper car with an expensive power train. I would also suggest that the SR+ not be your only car, it can be done, but the range is a bit short for leaving the city. It is an excellent commuter though. The Full Self Driving is not worth it. The autopilot that comes with the car even seems a bit wanting. If autopilot with the FSD preview is reflective of the state of the art, it's going to be a while before I'd trust the car to do any of the driving itself. I wasn't sure I'd like the minimalist no buttons approach, but it has grown on me. It is pretty well thought out and works a lot like a cellphone, so it's intuitive for people who like that. 

Winter driving has been fine so far, but it has been a mild winter. I charge it in a heated garage everyday to 80% and my range is plenty for an every day commute without ever dipping below 50% even on the colder days we've had. Winter performance is fine, it's a rear wheel drive, rear weight biased car, so it's going to be different to your current car. It slips the rear wheels very easily because of the instant torque, but the traction control system is good at keeping things under control.

----------


## benyl

> Benyl manicures.



My trusty tweezerman nail clippers make me a pro!!

----------


## ExtraSlow

if you want one, you want one. If not, not. I don't think more information changes anything about this decision. It's not a typical car buying experience, because you aren't buy a car from a car company. That F150 lease would be cheaper, but that also doesn't matter.

----------


## benyl

As much as I like my Tesla. That F150 lease deal is awesome. 

Get the Performance if you can afford it. It’s a relative bargain. The consensus seems to be to buy new. The rate you get from the bank is super cheap and the resale has been pretty good. 

For my needs during CoVID, I charge to 60% daily.

Safety is second to none.

----------


## rage2

> Benyl manicures.






> My trusty tweezerman nail clippers make me a pro!!



Don’t lie. It’s because you’re Korean. It’s in your DNA.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> oh yeah the paint job is embarrassing.
> Spend a couple bucks to wrap the whole thing in PPF.



They had made huge improvements in 2020.

----------


## benyl

> Don’t lie. It’s because you’re Korean. It’s in your DNA.



At least I’ll have a back up plan.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Mods should split this thread.

----------


## killramos

Dunno. Seems fitting to me

----------


## ExtraSlow

Sad.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> Sooooo, I’m considering taking the plunge on one of these girls, any recommendations on model 3 vs s opinions? Rebates being offered/ less known ones? Winter issues being battery powered and all? Doos and do nots? New vs used? I commute quite a bit and am hoping for some solid opinions. I have an 08 gs350 awd right now, would it be worth the upgrade? Hit me up guys



I will let you use my referral code in exchange for a keychain.  :Love:  Mine is special-er as it comes with a free Netflix and chill coupon with the beyonder of your dreams. 

Also...model s refresh coming out in a few weeks. You may be able to get a deal on a current model but I would wait. Model Y is probably the best compromise.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Tesla warns 471,000 customers to park outside because the vehicle could catch on fire even when parked and off. God help us all.

https://dailyhornet.com/2021/hyundai...r-fire-hazard/

----------


## killramos

Weird flex

----------


## s dime

Tesla? Article mentions Hyundai...

----------


## killramos

> Tesla? Article mentions Hyundai...



He’s trying to prove other “quality” manufacturers recall hundreds of thousands of vehicles too, we will just be quiet about Hyundai shipping 5 million cars a year.

----------


## richardchan2002

Tesla isn’t exempt from vehicle fires either. It sounds like damage to batteries are the main cause however there have been instances of spontaneous combustion of parked vehicles too. Also, Lithium ion battery fires require 5000-8000 gallons of water and a lot of patience as the fires can reignite by themselves and not all fire departments are familiar with how to put out electric battery fires yet

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-...on-fire-2019-4

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Sooooo, I’m considering taking the plunge on one of these girls, any recommendations on model 3 vs s opinions? Rebates being offered/ less known ones? Winter issues being battery powered and all? Doos and do nots? New vs used? I commute quite a bit and am hoping for some solid opinions. I have an 08 gs350 awd right now, would it be worth the upgrade? Hit me up guys



Don't come to the table expecting the same level of luxury as any ICE for a similar price point. The Model S has noticeably more creature comforts than the 3, though it doesn't even come close to anything north of the $100k territory. As others have said, what you're paying for is the tech and the performance (not limited to the Performance models).

If commuting is needed, don't even look at anything less than the Long Range, Dual Motor models. Sure the SR+ has some 400+ kms, but come dead of winter and/or high winds (presumably your commutes will mostly be highways), you can "lose" up to 40-50% of that range. Unless you have Level 2 (AC 240V) or Level 3 (DC) charging at both ends, you probably won't have enough juice to get home.

That said, if your commuting is significant, you'll find a huge savings in your "fueling." Case in point, I had a 2013 S4 (stage 2) before this paying on average $300/month for 94-oct (and periodic splashes of e85 in the summers and switching maps on the tune). That car saw no more than 12k kms/yr. On my 3, I now average $30-40/mth in additional electricity and the car sees (pre-covid) ~20k kms/yr. The S4 saw low-12s in the 1/4; the Performance 3 sees 11.6-11.7s in the 1/4. Slightly faster, yet significantly cheaper to operate.

In terms of size, speaking Lexus models as comparisons, the Model 3 is more comparable to an IS and the Model S comparable to an LS. If you're wanting similar to your GS, consider a Model Y. The 3 drives significantly more nimbler than the S, with the Y somewhere in between.

If you're considering a Model S, wait for the highly-rumoured refresh on the Model S/X coming up imminently (end of month likely). People always want the latest and greatest; you'll save quite a bit on a used S/X. Stick with a 2018+ if you can afford it to take advantage of the updated computer hardware. You can upgrade the hardware on older models directly through Tesla, but only as "old" as late-2016s. If Model 3's your thang, go new. They've been holding their values well but only 'cause early adopters, such as yours truly, paid significantly more than what Tesla sells them for new now. For example, a Performance Model 3 was just under $100k back in mid-2018 and can now be had for under $80k (both prices with taxes in). The "cheapest" I've seen a used 2018 Performance 3 listed recently was $70k with 40k kms on the clock. Better to just get a new one for that price. Same thing applies down the trim lineup.

By the way, you can get 1,500kms of free supercharging credits (really, it's like ~$100 value) if you use a referral code to buy. Mine's below in my sig!  :Angel:

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Plaid+ and updated interior.

----------


## killramos

Looks like solid improvements, torque vectoring sounds cool. 190k is a bit of a lol but irrelevant.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Looks like solid improvements, torque vectoring sounds cool. 190k is a bit of a lol but irrelevant.



And how much are other production cars in the <9.0s 1/4 mile and 0-60<2s territory? Is there even one? McLaren 765LT or Bugatti Chiron perhaps?

That said, even financing that amount over 96 months is more than my mortgage!  :Shock:  Guess I won't be driving one anytime soon.

----------


## killramos

Is this another track hawk discussion?

Can’t win with the Tesla fanbois, I make a complimentary post but point out it’s expensive. Get shit on anyway, either full cult of Elon or bust.

Fuck it, the car is still an incredibly ugly domestic made car and a bench racer one trick pony with Kia build quality. Can’t remember, do they make this one in a tent?

 :ROFL!: 

I’ll answer your question with a question, do you really think anyone wants to buy a model S over even the slowest mclaren?

We are talking about a dodge demon versus a gorgeous supercar, not even a debatable cross shop.

----------


## blownz

Estimated delivery of March for the long range or the "regular" plaid. Late 2021 for the Plaid +

Steering wheel reminds me of KITT

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Is this another track hawk discussion?
> 
> Can’t win with the Tesla fanbois, I make a complimentary post but point out it’s expensive. Get shit on anyway, either full cult of Elon or bust.
> 
> Fuck it, the car is still an incredibly ugly domestic made car and a bench racer one trick pony with Kia build quality. Can’t remember, do they make this one in a tent?
> 
> 
> 
> I’ll answer your question with a question, do you really think anyone wants to buy a model S over even the slowest mclaren?
> ...



Fair's fair...not a fan of the build quality either, but c'mon, comparing it to a Kia?! Those K cars have way better build quality than Tesla!

There's that guy on YT that recently picked up a 765lt and also owns several Tesla's (Teslae?). I guess if you can afford any of the rarest supercars in the world, you can also afford a Plaid+ Model S.

But to speak to your point, the Plaid+ Model S isn't just a one-trick pony. Wasn't Elon's goal to outrun the Lucid Air on Buttonwillow or one of those Cali tracks? It's at least got some track prowess to it.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Is [email protected] mph trap speed faster than a 1989 Mustang Coupe? Asking for SKR.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Looks like solid improvements, torque vectoring sounds cool. 190k is a bit of a lol but irrelevant.



Easily in my top 61 picks for cars over $190k.

----------


## Jlude

I despise that steering wheel, but I like everything else. Won't be getting rid of my mine for this.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

> I despise that steering wheel, but I like everything else. Won't be getting rid of my mine for this.



Koala hater. You probably put ketchup in your cereal.

----------


## blownz

What does Tesla have against us Canadians?

Base Model S is $81,190 US vs $114,990 CA for a 42% markup. Exchange has been hovering around 1.28-1.30 lately.

The Plaid isn't as bad at $121,190 vs $159,990 for 32% and $141,190 vs $189,990 for 35% for the Plaid +

But still the extra for Plaid + over the regular Plaid is $20K US vs $30K CA for a 50% difference. Do they really not want us to buy these?

It is similar for the Model 3 which to be honest is a big reason I drive the car I do. In the US the price difference between the G70 3.3T Sport and the Model 3 isn't nearly as much as here in Canada. Same with every other manufacturer.

It will be interesting to see how Ford prices the Mustang Mach E in Canada vs the US and same with Mercedes with the EQ models. If the Canadian models sell for more like a 15-20% premium like other vehicles in their fleets they might be really good deals in Canada.

----------


## killramos

> What does Tesla have against us Canadians?
> 
> Base Model S is $81,190 US vs $114,990 CA for a 42% markup. Exchange has been hovering around 1.28-1.30 lately.
> 
> The Plaid isn't as bad at $121,190 vs $159,990 for 32% and $141,190 vs $189,990 for 35% for the Plaid +
> 
> But still the extra for Plaid + over the regular Plaid is $20K US vs $30K CA for a 50% difference. Do they really not want us to buy these?
> 
> It is similar for the Model 3 which to be honest is a big reason I drive the car I do. In the US the price difference between the G70 3.3T Sport and the Model 3 isn't nearly as much as here in Canada. Same with every other manufacturer.
> ...



Considering they sell every car they make, why wouldn’t they pocket a little extra bit off the top.

Their buyers don’t seem to care how bad they get ripped off.

----------


## Jlude

> Koala hater. You probably put ketchup in your cereal.



This is just wrong.

----------


## ExtraSlow

@blownz
 Tesla is not a car company. Tesla is not a car company. Tesla is not a car company.

----------


## blownz

lol

Still bothers me. And I don't even really like them that much.

----------


## ExtraSlow

It would bother me too. But then again, I can't afford one either way.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

I like the car.

----------


## The_Rural_Juror

Some dude on Reddit's summary on the comparable EVs.



Yes. I get that some of you fuckers hate the car. This is not for you so go fuck off in your fuck holes.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Yes. I get that some of you fuckers hate the car. This is not for you so go fuck off in your fuck holes.



well said sir. And you aren't completely wrong.

----------


## killramos

Does Reddit have a row for ugly?

----------


## heavyD

Any of you with Teslas been driving much this week? Curious how they are handling this weather.

----------


## ExtraSlow

They have that cabin preconditioning thing right? Through an app? That sounds excellent.

----------


## roopi

> They have that cabin preconditioning thing right? Through an app? That sounds excellent.



You mean heat? My GMC has cabin preconditioning too then.

----------


## benyl

The cars work fine. I don't have a heated garage at the moment, so my consumption is up quite a bit. I never have fear that my battery doesn't have enough CCA to turnover a cold block.

I've increase my charge limit to 70% to give me more headroom for the heater working overtime.

This was my usage before the cold snap. I'll take another set once it gets warmer.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

^Thanks! I'm also interested to see that.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> You mean heat? My GMC has cabin preconditioning too then.



Yes heat. Several vehicles have it. It's a good feature.

----------


## JustinL

Range has taken a pretty serious hit, but sill easily enough to commute with room for extra emergencies. Mine is one with a heat pump and it's not the warmest system in the world. It's also pretty loud when it's working, which surprised me. In these super cold temps the cabin seems to lose a lot of heat out of the glass roof. The rear tires are sliding lots with the slippery roads even with studded winters. It's very easy to lean on the traction control from almost every stop, but mine is the RWD version.

----------


## benyl

The heat pump is only good to -10 or something. It uses the resistive backup heater when it is colder.

----------


## LLLimit

Range & efficiency has suffered, maybe 30%? But I'm never cold soaked.
Cabin heater can't push out the 27°C I'm asking for, heater can't keep up against the outside air.

I drive with chill mode + slip start these days, gets traction a lot better than standard acceleration. 

Overall still great car, but annoyed I can't safely use AP anywhere.

----------


## killramos

With the whole bio weapon mode these cars must be pretty well sealed up which should help?

----------


## benyl

> With the whole bio weapon mode these cars must be pretty well sealed up which should help?



That's only on Model S and Model X. I think the China Model Y gets it, but Model 3 does not world wide.

----------


## benyl

Pilot Sport EV announced. Harder compound in the center to even out tire wear from high pressure and torque.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...301236120.html

Pics: https://contentcenter.michelin.com/p...5-5faa89ce7e46

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> I just helped convince my friend to buy one of these:
> https://unpluggedperformance.com/pro...ascia-model-3/
> 
> Have I accidentally made him a pariah?



Updating with pics finally.
Sorry the pictures are shitty, but if you have questions about the overall process, I recall a fair bit of the story.

----------


## Buster

Is the orange peel paint extra charge?

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Is the orange peel paint extra charge?



Apparently, they used to arrive painted, but because they come in a box with zero packaging, they often needed repainting. So, instead of packing properly, they quit painting them and kept the useful practice of "put loosely in giant box".
Then, they're too dumb to give you a straight answer on what chemistry the plastic is so you can choose correct chemicals/binders/primers/paint. The owner guessed wrong and plans to repaint it.

----------


## Buster

> Apparently, they used to arrive painted, but because they come in a box with zero packaging, they often needed repainting. So, instead of packing properly, they quit painting them and kept the useful practice of "put loosely in giant box".
> Then, they're too dumb to give you a straight answer on what chemistry the plastic is so you can choose correct chemicals/binders/primers/paint. The owner guessed wrong and plans to repaint it.



Why would they repaint it?

Trashy fit and finish makes it look OEM.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Why would they repaint it?
> 
> Trashy fit and finish makes it look OEM.



There is an _authentic_, trashy fit to it but that's fine. And I don't think there are aftermarket bumpers under $10k that truly fit up as well as OEM (on normal cars).
But the painting thing is bullshit.

Overall we think it's a massive improvement and well worth the money even though there are issues. I really think the stock front bumper on the Model 3 and Model e Performance are not suitable.

----------


## Buster

Ain't no bumper on the planet that can fix that car

----------


## killramos

Takes a lot of bumper to make up for the gay

----------


## BavarianBeast

Does Elton John drive a tesla?

Edit:I just googled it and realized he has a strange collection of largely chauffeur vehicles. And probably a Tesla.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

So needlessly mean! It's not a vehicle I care for or would consider, but it's not like it's a Le Car or a Pontiac Aztec or Juke. LoL!!

----------


## BavarianBeast

It’s an albertan car forum after all. Death to EV!

----------


## Buster

> So needlessly mean! It's not a vehicle I care for or would consider, but it's not like it's a Le Car or a Pontiac Aztec or Juke. LoL!!




Aztecs were ahead of their time

----------


## JustinL

I think the shape of that front bumper looks pretty good and definitely better than the stock version. It does seem like more of a pain in the ass than it's worth to switch it up though. Looked cool on the Pike's Peak car.

----------


## riander5

I feel like Tesla is the master of camera angles like fat girls on social media. Their cars look great in pressers and shit in person

----------


## hurrdurr

Does anyone want to buy a Spigen Screen Protector? Fits Model 3 and Y. I accidentally bought two and it's non refundable .♂️

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$40

Thanks!

----------


## redblack

Bump

I’m seriously looking into purchasing an EV in the next few weeks, scheduled a test drive for middle of September (earliest appointment lol). Still debating on the Model 3 SR+ for the federal incentive or stepping it up to the model3 Lr or the Y LR for an extra 15-20K.

Any of you RWD Tesla owners have any regrets driving them for our climate?

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Bump
> 
> I’m seriously looking into purchasing an EV in the next few weeks, scheduled a test drive for middle of September (earliest appointment lol). Still debating on the Model 3 SR+ for the federal incentive or stepping it up to the model3 Lr or the Y LR for an extra 15-20K.
> 
> Any of you RWD Tesla owners have any regrets driving them for our climate?



Are you considering other brands. There are some compelling options that are not Tesla. Although if you love Tesla, you should just buy Tesla.

----------


## jacky4566

RWD is no problem with winter tires but you might want that extra range if you go to banff / lake louise often enough.

----------


## JustinL

> Bump
> 
> I’m seriously looking into purchasing an EV in the next few weeks, scheduled a test drive for middle of September (earliest appointment lol). Still debating on the Model 3 SR+ for the federal incentive or stepping it up to the model3 Lr or the Y LR for an extra 15-20K.
> 
> Any of you RWD Tesla owners have any regrets driving them for our climate?



The biggest problem you are going to have is finding a model 3 SR+ in the next few weeks as they're sold out until January. As far as EVs in the federal incentive range, the Tesla is the only one to get IMHO. It holds value better than all the others, is rear drive, has better tech; a no brainer. Things I've noticed in our climate is that they suffer from some wind chill as the car tries to heat the battery that's being cooled by the airflow under the car. It's no problem in the city, but I see the battery gets cold on the highway on the coldest days. If you never leave the city with the car, it's perfect, but then it can't be your only car. Driving in the slippery is no trickier than any other RWD car. It's got rear weight bias and very fine control over the wheel slip... my problem with it is that there is no sport mode and the car never lets you get it sideways, even if you need it to. There are supposed to be some "cold weather updates" since last season, so hopefully that helps a bit. The glass roof also leaks a ton of heat, so I put in an insulating sunshade for this winter too.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Bump
> 
> I’m seriously looking into purchasing an EV in the next few weeks, scheduled a test drive for middle of September (earliest appointment lol). Still debating on the Model 3 SR+ for the federal incentive or stepping it up to the model3 Lr or the Y LR for an extra 15-20K.
> 
> Any of you RWD Tesla owners have any regrets driving them for our climate?



I'd say test drive both the SR+ and the LR back-to-back if possible. Power difference is noticeable. Budget can obviously be the deal breaker, but don't forget to account for the savings in fuel vs electricity into your budget. I personally saved over $250/mth from a 94-octane weekly fill-up (that was when 94 was still only $1.20/L) vs the approx. $30/mth added cost of electricity. The monthly difference allowed me to put an extra $20-25k into the price of the car itself. Not to mention the little to no maintenance costs. The LR also has more power adding options (either directly through Tesla or through 3rd parties), so something to keep in mind if power upgrades are desired in the future. Also highly consider your family needs. My family of 4 (two kids under 10y/o) fit very snuggly into my Model 3, though still doable when packing lightly. Any larger than that or needing more hauling room, just skip the 3 and go straight for the Y.

----------


## Xtrema

> I'd say test drive both the SR+ and the LR back-to-back if possible. Power difference is noticeable. Budget can obviously be the deal breaker, but don't forget to account for the savings in fuel vs electricity into your budget. I personally saved over $250/mth from a 94-octane weekly fill-up (that was when 94 was still only $1.20/L) vs the approx. $30/mth added cost of electricity. The monthly difference allowed me to put an extra $20-25k into the price of the car itself. Not to mention the little to no maintenance costs. The LR also has more power adding options (either directly through Tesla or through 3rd parties), so something to keep in mind if power upgrades are desired in the future. Also highly consider your family needs. My family of 4 (two kids under 10y/o) fit very snuggly into my Model 3, though still doable when packing lightly. Any larger than that or needing more hauling room, just skip the 3 and go straight for the Y.



Keep in mind that electricity will work towards parity with gasoline eventually.

Heck, if you didn't lock down your rate, float is 12c per kwh last couple of months. About 2x normal float rate. You still save but a lot less then it used to be. But if gasoline goes to $3/L like electricity just did, everyone would have screaming bloody murder.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...mand-1.6142763

I don't think AESO is prepared for this. Especially the AESO under current government. So if there is no investment in new supply, old supply is being taken away (coal) and demand goes up, there is only 1 way where price would go.

----------


## JustinL

Pairing an EV with a solar system is also a good hedge against rising electricity cost. Get on that Green Grant and get $10K off a SR+ solar system combo.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Combining two items with payouts longer than their lifespans isn't exactly what I'd call a hedge. But I know what you mean.

----------


## killramos

> Combining two items with payouts longer than their lifespans isn't exactly what I'd call a hedge. But I know what you mean.



 :ROFL!:

----------


## JustinL

> Combining two items with payouts longer than their lifespans isn't exactly what I'd call a hedge. But I know what you mean.



I guess it depends on how much you expect electricity costs to increase.

Fair enough about my wording, yes an EV is not a hedge against electricity costs.

----------


## ExtraSlow

I'm mostly just busting balls, don't mind me. I'm supposed to stay out of this thread, as requested by several members and promised by myself.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Keep in mind that electricity will work towards parity with gasoline eventually.
> 
> Heck, if you didn't lock down your rate, float is 12c per kwh last couple of months. About 2x normal float rate. You still save but a lot less then it used to be. But if gasoline goes to $3/L like electricity just did, everyone would have screaming bloody murder.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...mand-1.6142763
> 
> I don't think AESO is prepared for this. Especially the AESO under current government. So if there is no investment in new supply, old supply is being taken away (coal) and demand goes up, there is only 1 way where price would go.



You have to remember that just 'cause electricity increases, gasoline will also increase proportionately too. Hitting parity is very unlikely to happen, and here's some math to prove it. Let's say for argument's sake, electricity increases by 2x for the long term at $0.12/kwh. Based on my personal usage (admittedly, I only drive about 16-18k kms/yr so literally, YMMV), my monthly electrical costs will increase a whopping extra $30/mth. How much is 94-octane nowadays - about $1.50/L? From what I used to pay for 94-octane at $1.20/L on a 60L tank, that additional $0.30/L is now already an $18 increase - per fill up! That's an extra $72/mth increase! Even if gas doesn't see a 2x increase causing everyone to scream bloody murder, just a minimal $/L increase grows exponentially. With the increasing carbon taxes, like it or not, it's a guarantee gas prices will keep growing for the long term. Again, YMMV but even if electricity were to increase 3x (say $0.18/kwh) for the long term (and if this does happen, there will be time-of-day electrical rates such that it'll be significantly cheaper if used between say midnight-6am, similar to places like California), whatever few more cents/L gas increases will still be far costlier than that of a small electricity increase.

At the end of the day, I don't spout that EVs are gonna save the planet. It won't. At least not with the North American, let alone Canadian, populations. All I'm saying is cost-wise, it's significantly cheaper to operate than a comparable ICE-vehicle with performance that does cry bloody murder. Don't buy a Tesla either; they're nothing more than an overpriced gadget on wheels. It's essentially an iPhone 1 when smartphones were still at their infancy some 20 years ago. Once a better "Android" EV comes out that's comparable or better than Tesla, I'll probably be the first to jump off the Tesla bandwagon. But in the meantime, it's the best bang for your buck out there.

----------


## hurrdurr

I would think an SR+ would depreciate substantially more than the LR. Especially with other EV's coming out with higher battery capacity x features.

Pair that with a large range and power variance and it's a better play to go with the LR.

50% range loss in the freezing cold paired with an SR+ would give me way too much anxiety.

I have a Model 3 Performance and the range is already significantly less than advertised while driving normally in moderate conditions (23C AC on low) (~400KMS HWY @ 100%) (~400KM CITY @ 90%)

I've put on 5000km in 2 months - incredibly fun and effortless to drive. Probably my favourite vehicle I've owned/driven.

----------


## JustinL

> I would think an SR+ would depreciate substantially more than the LR.



Take a gander at SR+ prices on autotrader. Granted we are in bananalands for used car prices everywhere, but the Tesla prices are wacko. There are 3 2021's (like mine) for sale within 1000km and the cheapest is $63,888.

----------


## redblack

Thanks for the responses so far, I guess I’ll just have to decide after I test drive them both. I was able to schedule them back to back in September. Now I have to figure out how to run some cables into my garage for a 240v charger.

----------


## hurrdurr

> Take a gander at SR+ prices on autotrader. Granted we are in bananalands for used car prices everywhere, but the Tesla prices are wacko. There are 3 2021's (like mine) for sale within 1000km and the cheapest is $63,888.



Damn I should sell mine and wait on another lol

----------


## eglove

Well I joined the club. 2021 Model 3 LR AWD

----------


## Disoblige

Neat. Definitely a step up from the RS, but curious if the fun factor is the same. Never got old of the pops and burbles.

----------


## eglove

> Neat. Definitely a step up from the RS, but curious if the fun factor is the same. Never got old of the pops and burbles.




Well no more drifting without a party box - which I won't do for a few more years. I've only had it for a day but the step on it and go is astronomically better than the RS haha. I was honestly getting tired of the manual, so this is a nice change. Just need to start modding it, I can't leave it stock haha. It is still quite eerie how quiet it is. Especially in the morning with no cold start. But it puts a smile on my face getting into it. I don't think I'll miss the RS, if I do get the urge my best friend has an RS and I can just drive that.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Well I joined the club. 2021 Model 3 LR AWD



Welcome to the club! No 240V charger in the garage yet?

----------


## eglove

> Welcome to the club! No 240V charger in the garage yet?




Monday!

----------


## redblack

How long did you wait for yours to come in?

----------


## eglove

> How long did you wait for yours to come in?




It was about 6 weeks - not too long considering the delays

----------


## mo_money2supe

> How long did you wait for yours to come in?



I believe the Calgary service centre has a number of Performance models (3 & Ys) that are current unsold. So if you or anyone wants one right away, you could potentially even take delivery by the end of next week since Tesla always tries to up their quarter-end sales numbers.

----------


## eglove

> I believe the Calgary service centre has a number of Performance models (3 & Ys) that are current unsold. So if you or anyone wants one right away, you could potentially even take delivery by the end of next week since Tesla always tries to up their quarter-end sales numbers.




They're all gone as of yesterday. I was chatting to them about their demos and the few performance models that were up

----------


## DustanS

.

----------


## tonytiger55

WHoooaa and he also has a CRV!!  :Clap:

----------


## heavyD

Is Tesla ever going to refresh the model 3? The overall shape of the car is decent enough to ride for a while but maybe some new headlights (I know they recently tweaked them but they look more or less the same), subtle front end changes on the outside and a little instrument cluster inside like the Mach-E would be nice. I just don't know if I could spend over $70k for a performance model with the interior. Hell I could probably overlook the dated exterior if they offered a new color or two as the colors they offer are so vanilla and drab.

----------


## ExtraSlow

They will provide an OTA refresh.

----------


## killramos

Doesn’t Tesla just change their cars 3-4 times a model year so you never really know what you are getting?

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Doesnt Tesla just change their cars 3-4 times a model year so you never really know what you are getting?



I think it's along those lines. They're just constantly revising rather than "the all new 1995 Ford Windstar" that they started selling in 1993.

----------


## Shlade

Can you still change the horn sounds? Id literally buy a tesla just for that feature alone

----------


## ExtraSlow

> I think it's along those lines. They're just constantly revising rather than "the all new 1995 Ford Windstar" that they started selling in 1993.



It's actually one of the very smart things that Tesla has done. Having annual model changes is quite detrimental to a lot of things, every 2-3 years is very sensible for "hardware" updates, and every 6-12 months for OTA software. 

I assume one of the smart "traditional" automakers will do something similar soon ont heir electric cars are least. Maybe the Hyundai Ionic sub-brand.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> It's actually one of the very smart things that Tesla has done. Having annual model changes is quite detrimental to a lot of things, every 2-3 years is very sensible for "hardware" updates, and every 6-12 months for OTA software. 
> 
> I assume one of the smart "traditional" automakers will do something similar soon ont heir electric cars are least. Maybe the Hyundai Ionic sub-brand.



Yes. I don't have an issue with it. As long as they observe proper revision control and mark the units appropriately and never fucking ever never use ambiguous date codes.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Yes. I don't have an issue with it. As long as they observe proper revision control and mark the units appropriately and never fucking ever never use ambiguous date codes.



well see,. yeah, you know, this is where things get a little squirrely . . .

----------


## eglove

> Can you still change the horn sounds? Id literally buy a tesla just for that feature alone




Yup, I have mine set on the DJ horn. It hasn't got old yet haha

----------


## benyl

> Doesn’t Tesla just change their cars 3-4 times a model year so you never really know what you are getting?



Yes. There are hardware changes all the time and they don't follow model years. Model years are an old construct that Tesla has been forced into. 

Mercedes, in my experience, does the same, but less frequently.

----------


## Inzane

> Is Tesla ever going to refresh the model 3? The overall shape of the car is decent enough



I've never warmed up to the look of the 3. The S is not bad. But whenever I see a 3 on the road, depending on the angle to me it doesn't say car... it says conveyance, people mover, transportation pod, etc.

----------


## heavyD

> I've never warmed up to the look of the 3. The S is not bad. But whenever I see a 3 on the road, depending on the angle to me it doesn't say car... it says conveyance, people mover, transportation pod, etc.



I actually don't mind the look from the rear 3/4. The front end has always looked unfinished. If they are fixed into the fish looking front for aerodynamic reasons, at least completely overhaul the headlights which can do wonders for other automakers mid model updates.

----------


## killramos

> Yes. There are hardware changes all the time and they don't follow model years. Model years are an old construct that Tesla has been forced into. 
> 
> Mercedes, in my experience, does the same, but less frequently.



Bastarde!

----------


## eglove

Do any of you guys have a OBD2 adapter for model 3/y?

----------


## benyl

Yes, I have one for each car.

----------


## eglove

PM'd



Anyone interested in a group buy for some unplugged performance lips? Split shipping?

----------


## heavyD

What do you need OBD2 adapters for with these cars? Is there some coding you can do on the side like BimmerCode?

----------


## eglove

I just wanted to diagnose what abs sensor shit the bed. So I didn’t have to pay $200 in labour today… but there is an app called scanmytesla which gives you a bunch of info

----------


## heavyD

> I just wanted to diagnose what abs sensor shit the bed. So I didn’t have to pay $200 in labour today… but there is an app called scanmytesla which gives you a bunch of info



Out of warranty already?

----------


## benyl

> I just wanted to diagnose what abs sensor shit the bed. So I didn’t have to pay $200 in labour today… but there is an app called scanmytesla which gives you a bunch of info



Oh shit. Didn’t know you were out of warranty already. Would have made more of an effort to help. 

I’ll have to look into if the obd reader even shows codes. Scan my Tesla doesn’t as far as I’m aware. But I haven’t used it in a year.

----------


## eglove

> Oh shit. Didn’t know you were out of warranty already. Would have made more of an effort to help. 
> 
> I’ll have to look into if the obd reader even shows codes. Scan my Tesla doesn’t as far as I’m aware. But I haven’t used it in a year.



No, my dumbass lowered it. Two weeks after the install I started getting random loss of ABS, steering assist, autopilot, traction/stability etc. Pulled all the wheels off, checked all the sensors no signs of physical damage. So I took it in, I figured I stretched a sensor cable. I thought if I could at least figure out if it was front left or right I could just buy the sensor and fix it myself. But it wouldn't tell me what side. In the end both of them got replaced by tesla - abs cable stretched. lol $454 later. $240 in parts $90 diag (even though me and the car said ABS sensor) and $100 in labour 

I'm going to have to order one of those splitters, but the few I've found have bad reviews or they send the car into a fritz.





> Out of warranty already?



No, I installed lowering springs and the cause of failure was due to lowered - well me busting the cables. I've installed probably near a hundred set of lowering kits and I've never fucked up an ABS sensor or dynamic suspension cable or anything like that. Bad luck I guess

----------


## benyl

> I'm going to have to order one of those splitters, but the few I've found have bad reviews or they send the car into a fritz.



I ordered mine here. I paid $40 for each of mine with $20 of shipping.

https://gpstrackingcanada.com/produc...r-hrn-ct20t11/

I can't remember if I called them as the "purchase online" redirects to their US site.

----------


## eglove

> I ordered mine here. I paid $40 for each of mine with $20 of shipping.
> 
> https://gpstrackingcanada.com/produc...r-hrn-ct20t11/
> 
> I can't remember if I called them as the "purchase online" redirects to their US site.



That one looks way better constructed than the amazon ones

----------


## hurrdurr

> No, my dumbass lowered it. Two weeks after the install I started getting random loss of ABS, steering assist, autopilot, traction/stability etc. Pulled all the wheels off, checked all the sensors no signs of physical damage. So I took it in, I figured I stretched a sensor cable. I thought if I could at least figure out if it was front left or right I could just buy the sensor and fix it myself. But it wouldn't tell me what side. In the end both of them got replaced by tesla - abs cable stretched. lol $454 later. $240 in parts $90 diag (even though me and the car said ABS sensor) and $100 in labour 
> 
> I'm going to have to order one of those splitters, but the few I've found have bad reviews or they send the car into a fritz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I installed lowering springs and the cause of failure was due to lowered - well me busting the cables. I've installed probably near a hundred set of lowering kits and I've never fucked up an ABS sensor or dynamic suspension cable or anything like that. Bad luck I guess



What springs did you get and obligatory picture.

I am thinking of lowering and putting spacers in the spring

----------


## eglove

> What springs did you get and obligatory picture.
> 
> I am thinking of lowering and putting spacers in the spring



I put the “wrong” springs on. But they worked out perfect. I used the M3P Eibach springs not the ones for the LR AWD(which I have) 20mm bloxsport/bonoss spacers in the rear. Haven’t ordered the 15mm front yet 




correct springs : Eibach e10-87-001-22
wrong ones I used (performance model) : Eibach e10-87-001-05-22 (also 04-22)

----------


## benyl

What's the difference? The 2021 M3P has no ride height difference unlike the earlier cars.

----------


## eglove

> What's the difference? The 2021 M3P has no ride height difference unlike the earlier cars.




The performance springs have a rear rake to them apparently, I don't notice it on mine 

performance spring drop 1" front 1.4" rear
AWD spring drop 0.9" front and 1" rear

----------


## heavyD

I am researching my next car and since I have a 240V outlet in my garage I feel I at the very least need to investigate the Model 3 performance. However going to the forums left me horrified. The quality control looks like nothing I have seen ever even from Jeep or Ford. Did some of you receive clean cars at delivery?

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...216597/page-32

----------


## eglove

> I am researching my next car and since I have a 240V outlet in my garage I feel I at the very least need to investigate the Model 3 performance. However going to the forums left me horrified. The quality control looks like nothing I have seen ever even from Jeep or Ford. Did some of you receive clean cars at delivery?
> 
> https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...216597/page-32




When something is wrong the masses gather to complain, you don't hear the praise as much as the complaints. I had some small minor issues with mine, but rather than make a big deal about them I just fixed it myself. No big deal and it was fun to tinker. Honestly the Model 3 is the best car I've ever had - even with my ABS fuck up. Hands down, the best. Once you drive it, it ruins every other car for you lol. Went and drove a friends Focus RS with nearly the same mods as my old one - it felt like a big slow laggy tank.

----------


## heavyD

> When something is wrong the masses gather to complain, you don't hear the praise as much as the complaints. I had some small minor issues with mine, but rather than make a big deal about them I just fixed it myself. No big deal and it was fun to tinker. Honestly the Model 3 is the best car I've ever had - even with my ABS fuck up. Hands down, the best. Once you drive it, it ruins every other car for you lol. Went and drove a friends Focus RS with nearly the same mods as my old one - it felt like a big slow laggy tank.



Thats nice and all but have more experience with most brands than most since Im not brand loyal and have been involved in a lot of different automotive communities and I have never seen anything like that thread over the decades. I went page by page back over 20 pages and I still cant believe even Tesla could put out vehicles this poorly made and Ive owned several Chryslers and Fords. I just dont know if I could handle paying over $70k and having a car delivered with issues like this.

----------


## JustinL

I'm just a data point of 1, but my Model 3 was delivered with one paint defect that Tesla fixed after delivery. Otherwise it's been fine for the last year. There are quirks with the car as it's all electric, it's not perfect, but it has done it's job very well every day. The nice thing with the Model 3 is the resale value. If you don't like it, you can sell it in a year and lose very little.

----------


## eglove

Meh, it's worth the gamble. Don't like the one that's delivered to you. Flip it the next day for what you paid or more /shrug

----------


## bjstare

> When something is wrong the masses gather to complain, you don't hear the praise as much as the complaints. I had some small minor issues with mine, but rather than make a big deal about them I just fixed it myself. No big deal and it was fun to tinker. Honestly the Model 3 is the best car I've ever had - even with my ABS fuck up. Hands down, the best. Once you drive it, it ruins every other car for you lol. Went and drove a friends Focus RS with nearly the same mods as my old one - it felt like a big slow laggy tank.



Taking home a brand new, reasonably expensive car, then fixing issues for yourself is just a ridiculous thing to have to do. Like absolutely outrageous.

Now, I'm not saying it's a bad car, and I'm not saying it's not fun... but come on.

I guess it must be a pretty awesome machine to make so many people shrug their shoulders about issues on a brand new car (everyone I know that has one loves it).

----------


## rage2

> I just don’t know if I could handle paying over $70k and having a car delivered with issues like this.



Basically what 
@eglove
 said. It's a damn fun car to DD, even if you don't have the performance model. Instant throttle response, good torque everywhere, makes it feel like a rocket. The M3P wasn't much faster than my E53, but it felt 2x faster even though mine's a mild hybrid with almost no turbo lag (still need high revs for outright power). If driving experience is highly important to you, you get over the other stuff pretty quickly.


@benyl
 made a good comparison, it's basically an expensive STI/Evo. Fast, econobox interior, if you can live with that.

edit - wanted to add, the feels damn fast is inherent to EVs. Drove a base Mustang Mach-E, same deal.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Tesla is not a car company. Teslas are not cars. Stop making this ridiculous comparison people.

----------


## heavyD

> Basically what 
> @eglove
>  said. It's a damn fun car to DD, even if you don't have the performance model. Instant throttle response, good torque everywhere, makes it feel like a rocket. The M3P wasn't much faster than my E53, but it felt 2x faster even though mine's a mild hybrid with almost no turbo lag (still need high revs for outright power). If driving experience is highly important to you, you get over the other stuff pretty quickly.
> 
> 
> @benyl
>  made a good comparison, it's basically an expensive STI/Evo. Fast, econobox interior, if you can live with that.
> 
> edit - wanted to add, the feels damn fast is inherent to EVs. Drove a base Mustang Mach-E, same deal.



I get that it's fast but I'm driving a 503 hp BMW so while it's going to feel faster than anything I have owned it's probably not going to blow my doors off like I was coming from an STI or something. I got a Bronco on order for the wife so I want to get back into a car and everyday I stare at that 240V outlet in my garage and it tempts me to go electric. I just wish it had at least a HUD or something as I just don't like having to stare at a center mounted screen not to mention the loss of CarPlay.

Anyone with a white interior? How are the seats holding up (denim transfer)? The black interior looks so drab in these cars.

----------


## eglove

> Taking home a brand new, reasonably expensive car, then fixing issues for yourself is just a ridiculous thing to have to do. Like absolutely outrageous.
> 
> Now, I'm not saying it's a bad car, and I'm not saying it's not fun... but come on.
> 
> I guess it must be a pretty awesome machine to make so many people shrug their shoulders about issues on a brand new car (everyone I know that has one loves it).



A small stain on the a pillar (like 3mm in diameter) - some interior carpet clean and it was gone in 5 seconds. The delivery clean was good enough but I went over it again. And then a rattle in the passenger front and rear door - no big deal to me. 6 torx screws total, like I said. New car - for me it's fun to take apart and tinker with it and see what they are doing different. Mind you after 5 days of owning it I ripped all the suspension out..soo


edit: I thought I would miss carplay, but I don't at all. The only thing that annoys me is the voice assistant never capitalizes correctly and sometimes it bungs up words like first gen Siri

----------


## rage2

> I get that it's fast but I'm driving a 503 hp BMW so while it's going to feel faster than anything I have owned it's probably not going to blow my doors off like I was coming from an STI or something. I got a Bronco on order for the wife so I want to get back into a car and everyday I stare at that 240V outlet in my garage and it tempts me to go electric. I just wish it had at least a HUD or something as I just don't like having to stare at a center mounted screen not to mention the loss of CarPlay.



So you're like me. Straight line speed isn't at the top of the list. I do really appreciate Tesla's driving feel tho, but the lack of simple amenities and comfort features is a no for me. If my typical AMG purchase have the drivetrain feel of a Tesla, it'd be awesome. No confidence Tesla is going to make a true luxury car, even the Model S is bare to me. If you think loss of CarPlay sucks, they don't even have blind spot indicators on the damn mirrors.

There's options other than Tesla coming that combines everything for people like us, but it's a long waiting game.

----------


## eglove

I never really cared for the BSI in the mirror, you can see it on the tablet when someone is in your blind spot and it still chimes for you. I did change the mirrors to wide angle blue tinted style and that made a difference for me. I do miss the ford mirrors with the built in mini blindspot mirror though

You can buy an aftermarket hud to go in front of the steering wheel if you really miss it that bad. But honestly after you drive it, it's quite nice have the view of the road and not have all that info in the way

----------


## bjstare

> So you're like me. Straight line speed isn't at the top of the list. I do really appreciate Tesla's driving feel tho, but the lack of simple amenities and comfort features is a no for me. If my typical AMG purchase have the drivetrain feel of a Tesla, it'd be awesome. No confidence Tesla is going to make a true luxury car, even the Model S is bare to me. If you think loss of CarPlay sucks, they don't even have blind spot indicators on the damn mirrors.
> 
> There's options other than Tesla coming that combines everything for people like us, but it's a long waiting game.



Sounds like you need a Lucid.

----------


## heavyD

> So you're like me. Straight line speed isn't at the top of the list. I do really appreciate Tesla's driving feel tho, but the lack of simple amenities and comfort features is a no for me. If my typical AMG purchase have the drivetrain feel of a Tesla, it'd be awesome. No confidence Tesla is going to make a true luxury car, even the Model S is bare to me. If you think loss of CarPlay sucks, they don't even have blind spot indicators on the damn mirrors.
> 
> There's options other than Tesla coming that combines everything for people like us, but it's a long waiting game.



Yeah it seems a lot of the upcoming EV’s are SUV oriented and I want to get back into a car.

----------


## pheoxs

> Yeah it seems a lot of the upcoming EV’s are SUV oriented and I want to get back into a car.



I'm going the other way, if I can have a EV SUV that can at least zip around cars in traffic I'll be happy to scoop one up. I just can't justify swapping my Fiesta for any kind of performance SUV and burning twice the gas right now. At least with a EV its saving gas and still zoom zoom. No chance I buy a tesla though, probably one of the cheaper SUVs rolling out in a few years.

----------


## mo_money2supe

I took delivery of my Model 3 Performance just over 3 years ago now. The only issues I had at delivery were wind buffeting on the front passenger door, and a rattle in my lower steering wheel console (the plastic piece). All fixed/replaced under warranty. Mine also suffered some stress cracks on the roof glass but that too was replaced under warranty. Tesla has since changed glass suppliers and those cracked roof glasses are yesteryear's news. Otherwise, everything was perfect. I've met up with and helped install mods on many Model 3/Ys that were built after mine. While I didn't think mine had any issues, these newer ones just seemed that much better built. You just never hear from the masses about the good; only the bad and ugly complain. Is the 3 better than any other car I've owned? In terms of build quality, far from it. But as a DD, boy is it the funnest thing ever and I still enjoy it every much as I did the first day I took delivery 3 years ago. We even added a second Tesla (Model X) into our stable just last year. We're now a full EV household. Never turning back to another ICE.

EDIT: By the way, if anyone's interested in my T-Sportline lowering springs, I was hoping to take advantage of (hopefully) the upcoming Black Friday sales to pick myself up some MPP coilovers, let me know. We could do an install day together.

----------


## vengie

> Tesla is not a car company. Teslas are not cars. Stop making this ridiculous comparison people.



I can't rep this comment enough.

Tesla is a technology company.

----------


## benyl

I am a sample of 2.

No real paint issues on delivery. I had a misaligned window that I didn't find until after tint on the first car. They blamed the tinter, but I had noticed the gap on deliver and had it documented and so it was covered. The steering rack on my second car had to be replaced after a week. Car drove fine, but they made me come in a replace it.  :dunno: 

The white interior is holding up fine. There is some jean transfer, but you can just wipe it off with baby wipes.

It is NOT a luxury car. Stupid masses are expecting it is because of the price. I wouldn't even call it premium. I feel like I got great value for $80K at 560+ HP. I've said it before, I paid over $80K in 2009 for my C63 that had 450hp. 10 years later, same $80K buys me more power. Seems like a bargain and half the cost of getting back into another E63 Wagon. Plus, I am not paying $1,500 a year in AMG tax (maintenance) and $7,500 brake jobs after 30K kms. Added bonus is not having to line up in the Costco gas line.

Power delivery is very different. Like any car, you will get used to the power and it won't "blow your doors off" after the first couple of months. I'm never going back to a gas car unless it is a 3rd car or a 4th.

The issue I have is tire wear. It's like a C63. I'm getting maybe 15K kms out of my winters (2.5 seasons). 

Personally, I don't miss carplay. Maybe because Ford's implementation was shit, but I can do what I need without it. I do miss Waze.

You do have to reboot the display once in a while. Especially after a software update.

The problem with forums and especially facebook groups is that you have people on there that seem like they have never owned a car before. They are fucking idiots. Asking if things like brake cleaning or tire punctures are covered under warranty. The "delivery" lists are ridiculous. People are expecting perfection because they are paying so much, but the reality is that it is an American car made in America. My Expedition was delivered with the wrong color running board and a seat cover that wasn't tucked in (had to order a totally new cover that took 9 months). The Sync system shit the bed after an update (that doesn't work over wifi by the way). I didn't complain on the forums about it.

I won't apologize for Tesla, but it isn't as bad a people make it out to be.

----------


## bjstare

> A small stain on the a pillar (like 3mm in diameter) - some interior carpet clean and it was gone in 5 seconds. The delivery clean was good enough but I went over it again. And then a rattle in the passenger front and rear door - no big deal to me. 6 torx screws total, like I said. New car - for me it's fun to take apart and tinker with it and see what they are doing different. Mind you after 5 days of owning it I ripped all the suspension out..soo



Yeah, I mean it sounds like there's a pretty wide spectrum of frequency/severity of issues. I'm sure tons of them are perfect and have the quality of any other car, and others have pretty minor issues like yours.

I'm also not implying the car is a POS either, I guess my point is I just that I wouldn't accept delivery if it had issues. Regardless of the brand, I want a new car to be... new. Different strokes though.

----------


## rage2

> I never really cared for the BSI in the mirror, you can see it on the tablet when someone is in your blind spot and it still chimes for you. I did change the mirrors to wide angle blue tinted style and that made a difference for me. I do miss the ford mirrors with the built in mini blindspot mirror though
> 
> You can buy an aftermarket hud to go in front of the steering wheel if you really miss it that bad. But honestly after you drive it, it's quite nice have the view of the road and not have all that info in the way



I'm old. I don't like change. I still blind spot check anyways, but the indicator is a nice to have that simplifies my decision making quickly.

HUD's doesn't block the view of the road. It's not like it's full screen. On the Benz's with the intelligent drive package, it's a must have. Driving one without, at times I miss the chimes when the "self driving' disengages. Having the indicator in the HUD, along with current speed limit, cruise speed, and my speed without taking eyes of the road is a must have. Our Sienna doesn't have a HUD and it's annoying as fuck. Guess on the bright side I'd be driving less aggressively.




> Sounds like you need a Lucid.



Yup. The silly range is the big selling feature for me, until AB gets its ass in gear with charging infrastructure. First year of heavy kids sports travelling this year, and there were 2 trips that couldn't have been done even in a LR Tesla. Although one of the trips is fixed this year according to 
@benyl
 because Lloydminster is getting a supercharger, but that's Tesla only. I ain't driving a minivan to fucking Lloydminster haha. It's why I went with another E53. Hybrid, as close (today) as possible to get to the feel of an EV with a bunch of silly creature comforts I'm accustomed to, and long range with no risk. Unless we run out of gas I guess.

That said, with the way EVs are finally being pushed, the Sienna and whenever I get the E53 will probably be my last ICE/Hybrid cars.

----------


## benyl

Superchargers have opened to non Tesla's in Norway as pilot. So it's coming. There is also a CCS adaptor that got released in Korea that is coming to NA that will allow Tesla's to connect to Fast chargers at Flo and Petro Can.

We are still way early in the EV world. People are kidding themselves if they think the infrastructure is there to support mass adoption. There's going to be long line ups and car on the side of the road without charge.

----------


## heavyD

I agree that once you get used to HUD it's hard to go back to a car without it. It changes the way you drive fast or in general as you can remain 100% focussed on the road ahead at all times. I'm surprised how much I like it because it's a feature that wasn't high on my list of must-haves before having it. I don't understand why Elon at least couldn't throw that in if he's not going to give you an instrument cluster. I'm kind of worried about the speeding tickets I would amass with one of these cars with all that acceleration, no speedo in front of me, and no Waze.

----------


## killramos

I get emails from RBC that I can charge my EV for free at Petros.

Is that not really a useful thing?

+1 on HUDs being amazing, biggest thing I miss on the M2 after 3 cars in a row with HUD.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> I get emails from RBC that I can charge my EV for free at Petros.
> 
> Is that not really a useful thing?
> 
> +1 on HUDs being amazing, biggest thing I miss on the M2 after 3 cars in a row with HUD.



The offer only applies at select Petro-Cans with the CHAdeMO chargers. You'll also need a $600 adapter cable from Tesla (no longer even available) to do so. It's limited to only 50kW charge rate vs the 150kW+ at Tesla superchargers. Furthermore, the "free" charging only lasts until April 2022 anyway so it's not like you'll get much out of it.

----------


## hurrdurr

> I took delivery of my Model 3 Performance just over 3 years ago now. The only issues I had at delivery were wind buffeting on the front passenger door, and a rattle in my lower steering wheel console (the plastic piece). All fixed/replaced under warranty. Mine also suffered some stress cracks on the roof glass but that too was replaced under warranty. Tesla has since changed glass suppliers and those cracked roof glasses are yesteryear's news. Otherwise, everything was perfect. I've met up with and helped install mods on many Model 3/Ys that were built after mine. While I didn't think mine had any issues, these newer ones just seemed that much better built. You just never hear from the masses about the good; only the bad and ugly complain. Is the 3 better than any other car I've owned? In terms of build quality, far from it. But as a DD, boy is it the funnest thing ever and I still enjoy it every much as I did the first day I took delivery 3 years ago. We even added a second Tesla (Model X) into our stable just last year. We're now a full EV household. Never turning back to another ICE.
> 
> EDIT: By the way, if anyone's interested in my T-Sportline lowering springs, I was hoping to take advantage of (hopefully) the upcoming Black Friday sales to pick myself up some MPP coilovers, let me know. We could do an install day together.



I might be interested in your springs.

My experience in build quality is pretty bad - I should have denied delivery but I didn't want to wait for a new car. Blinded by excitement I think.

Before I picked up they pushed my delivery because there was really bad over spray on the bottom panel of the passenger side. Every panel had some sort of misalignment and I had to have a tech come out several times to attempt to fix. It's not 100% but it's better now than it was. Frunk is noticeably not concave, rear bumper has mild gap and a couple other panels as well. I've also had some issues with the pillar cameras not working intermittently. I also get so much phantom braking on the highway that Autopilot is unusable at times. Recently my rear glass cracked from the inside and they replaced it under warranty but it was a bit of a pain proving that I wasn't at fault. My wife fucking hates this car because of all the issues. For $80,000 we should be getting better QC.

Everything aside, I enjoy the car but it has it's quirks - given the amount of OTA updates you can tell it's a work in progress. I do enjoy that new features are continually rolled out mostly for the better. It's by no means a luxury vehicle but it is extremely comfortable. Hitting the gas and having immediate power supplements all the issues IMO.

I'm looking at moving to 18" for Winter - I haven't been able to find many options - Is there a trick to sizing or is it case by case based on the rim style? I know there is some sort of inner lip that requires hubcentric rings to fit but otherwise I've been a bit in the dark.

A couple websites online that i've used to purchase rims in the past don't even show 2021 MYP as a configuration and others won't show 18".

----------


## rage2

And here I am annoyed that the Sienna has 2 scheduled maintenances per year lol.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> And here I am annoyed that the Sienna has 2 scheduled maintenances per year lol.



Seems excessive.

----------


## killramos

Just Toyota things.

Lexus is the same with crazy short oil change intervals.

----------


## benyl

> I'm looking at moving to 18" for Winter - I haven't been able to find many options - Is there a trick to sizing or is it case by case based on the rim style? I know there is some sort of inner lip that requires hubcentric rings to fit but otherwise I've been a bit in the dark.
> 
> A couple websites online that i've used to purchase rims in the past don't even show 2021 MYP as a configuration and others won't show 18".



18" Fast FC04s. Light and cheap and look decent. I went with Fast FC04 18x9.5 +35 5x114.3. Put a 245-45-18 tire on it.

The hubcentric part number is 872702641C

Bronze is not approved for winter... but I don't care. haha

----------


## rage2

> Just Toyota things.
> 
> Lexus is the same with crazy short oil change intervals.



At least we get a manicure out of it with Lexus.

----------


## eglove

I’m going to run 245/40/18’s on the stock wheels. 2% out of spec and the load rating is 96 which shouldn’t matter. Im
never loaded up anyways. For spring I got some fast wheels as well and I’ll run the stock tires on those until they die. Still gotta pony up the $400 for Bluetooth tpms from tesla for the new wheels too.

----------


## killramos

> At least we get a manicure out of it with Lexus.



You are free to service your sienna at Lexus haha

----------


## benyl

> I’m going to run 245/40/18’s on the stock wheels. 2% out of spec and the load rating is 96 which shouldn’t matter. Im
> never loaded up anyways. For spring I got some fast wheels as well and I’ll run the stock tires on those until they die. Still gotta pony up the $400 for Bluetooth tpms from tesla for the new wheels too.



The reason I went with 245-45 is to add just a little more meat for the potholes.

----------


## eglove

> The reason I went with 245-45 is to add just a little more meat for the potholes.




Yea I was going to go with that as well but I had these laying around from the Focus RS haha

----------


## hurrdurr

> I took delivery of my Model 3 Performance just over 3 years ago now. The only issues I had at delivery were wind buffeting on the front passenger door, and a rattle in my lower steering wheel console (the plastic piece). All fixed/replaced under warranty. Mine also suffered some stress cracks on the roof glass but that too was replaced under warranty. Tesla has since changed glass suppliers and those cracked roof glasses are yesteryear's news. Otherwise, everything was perfect. I've met up with and helped install mods on many Model 3/Ys that were built after mine. While I didn't think mine had any issues, these newer ones just seemed that much better built. You just never hear from the masses about the good; only the bad and ugly complain. Is the 3 better than any other car I've owned? In terms of build quality, far from it. But as a DD, boy is it the funnest thing ever and I still enjoy it every much as I did the first day I took delivery 3 years ago. We even added a second Tesla (Model X) into our stable just last year. We're now a full EV household. Never turning back to another ICE.
> 
> EDIT: By the way, if anyone's interested in my T-Sportline lowering springs, I was hoping to take advantage of (hopefully) the upcoming Black Friday sales to pick myself up some MPP coilovers, let me know. We could do an install day together.






> 18" Fast FC04s. Light and cheap and look decent. I went with Fast FC04 18x9.5 +35 5x114.3. Put a 245-45-18 tire on it.
> 
> The hubcentric part number is 872702641C
> 
> Bronze is not approved for winter... but I don't care. haha



Thanks for that part number

That's fucking weird I was looking at those in 18x9 ET40.

I was also looking at these but unsure if they'll fit

https://www.partsengine.ca/rim-alloy...k-p-64727.aspx | 18x8.5 ET40

----------


## eglove

> Thanks for that part number
> 
> That's fucking weird I was looking at those in 18x9 ET40.
> 
> I was also looking at these but unsure if they'll fit
> 
> https://www.partsengine.ca/rim-alloy...k-p-64727.aspx | 18x8.5 ET40



18X8.5 is the stock offset so they will fit. I've got 18x8.5 +20 effectively with spacers and they fit great

----------


## mo_money2supe

> I might be interested in your springs.
> 
> My experience in build quality is pretty bad - I should have denied delivery but I didn't want to wait for a new car. Blinded by excitement I think.
> 
> Before I picked up they pushed my delivery because there was really bad over spray on the bottom panel of the passenger side. Every panel had some sort of misalignment and I had to have a tech come out several times to attempt to fix. It's not 100% but it's better now than it was. Frunk is noticeably not concave, rear bumper has mild gap and a couple other panels as well. I've also had some issues with the pillar cameras not working intermittently. I also get so much phantom braking on the highway that Autopilot is unusable at times. Recently my rear glass cracked from the inside and they replaced it under warranty but it was a bit of a pain proving that I wasn't at fault. My wife fucking hates this car because of all the issues. For $80,000 we should be getting better QC.
> 
> Everything aside, I enjoy the car but it has it's quirks - given the amount of OTA updates you can tell it's a work in progress. I do enjoy that new features are continually rolled out mostly for the better. It's by no means a luxury vehicle but it is extremely comfortable. Hitting the gas and having immediate power supplements all the issues IMO.
> 
> I'm looking at moving to 18" for Winter - I haven't been able to find many options - Is there a trick to sizing or is it case by case based on the rim style? I know there is some sort of inner lip that requires hubcentric rings to fit but otherwise I've been a bit in the dark.
> ...



I'll PM you closer to Black Friday to see if I will for sure pick up the MPP coilovers. Chances are it'll be a go as long as there's a reasonable sale on them. Here's a link to my T-Sportline springs FYI: https://tsportline.com/products/tesl...22372591992892

The P3's rear brakes are rather large. Just have to be sure that the inner diameter of the wheel barrel will clear the brakes; there aren't many options though... I too have 18s wrapped with studded Hakka 8s, but I'm cutting it close (credit card thickness maybe). These are RAC R04 wheels in 18x8.5 et35 from UrbanX. Costs just under $1k for the set. The ones that Benyl has are guaranteed to fit no problem though.

----------


## JRSC00LUDE

> My experience in build quality is pretty bad - I should have denied delivery but I didn't want to wait for a new car. Blinded by excitement I think.
> 
> Before I picked up they pushed my delivery because there was really bad over spray on the bottom panel of the passenger side. Every panel had some sort of misalignment and I had to have a tech come out several times to attempt to fix. It's not 100% but it's better now than it was. Frunk is noticeably not concave, rear bumper has mild gap and a couple other panels as well. I've also had some issues with the pillar cameras not working intermittently. I also get so much phantom braking on the highway that Autopilot is unusable at times. Recently my rear glass cracked from the inside and they replaced it under warranty but it was a bit of a pain proving that I wasn't at fault. My wife fucking hates this car because of all the issues. For $80,000 we should be getting better QC.
> 
> Everything aside, I enjoy the car but it has it's quirks - given the amount of OTA updates you can tell it's a work in progress. I do enjoy that new features are continually rolled out mostly for the better. It's by no means a luxury vehicle but it is extremely comfortable. Hitting the gas and having immediate power supplements all the issues IMO.





I can't think of another vehicle that is as colossal a piece of shit for that kind of money that people completely overlook because fanboi. No judgment, just this culture amazes me.

----------


## ExtraSlow

The company is amazing. The culture is amazing. They are the best in the world at it.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> I can't think of another vehicle that is as colossal a piece of shit for that kind of money that people completely overlook because fanboi. No judgment, just this culture amazes me.



Jaguar and Land Rover... Probably Maserati (but I think they're more money).
It's different "PoS" issues, so rather than the dreaded #PanelGap (that 98% of people didn't know was a thing until journalists magically started screaming about it on social media), it's "your car is broken enough to require a shop visit measured in weeks, not days" within your first 100 hours of driving.
Oh, but the "fit & feel".

----------


## JustinL

I think a lot of the issues have been ironed out since the early cars with panel gaps etc. The problems I have with the car are more design choices and feature implementation.

I'm not sure about the new change in the SR+ battery composition that gives slightly better range at the expense of weight, cold weather performance and power. I'm glad I got my SR+ before they started pulling back on features and performance.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> I think a lot of the issues have been ironed out since the early cars with panel gaps etc. The problems I have with the car are more design choices and feature implementation.
> 
> I'm not sure about the new change in the SR+ battery composition that gives slightly better range at the expense of weight, cold weather performance and power. I'm glad I got my SR+ before they started pulling back on features and performance.



But the heated steering wheel tho...  :Love:

----------


## benyl

> But the heated steering wheel tho...



Yeah, wish we could retrofit them.

----------


## JustinL

True, there was a brief window after I got my car when you could get the SR+ with all the goodies including radar, passenger lumbar, AND heated steering wheel!

----------


## killramos

I thought you could just trade your Tesla in for MSRP?

----------


## JustinL

> I thought you could just trade your Tesla in for MSRP?



I don't think that happens, but you can sell it privately for over MSRP.

----------


## heavyD

> I don't think that happens, but you can sell it privately for over MSRP.



Why would anyone do that? Just can't wait a couple of months for a new one? If I build a model 3 performance at the website is says December delivery.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Why would anyone do that? Just can't wait a couple of months for a new one? If I build a model 3 performance at the website is says December delivery.



You're the second least likely member on this entire forum to research and purchase a Tesla.

Prove me wrong.

----------


## JustinL

> Why would anyone do that? Just can't wait a couple of months for a new one? If I build a model 3 performance at the website is says December delivery.



The RWD with 19" wheels is June '22 and if you want 18" it's September '22. I think they found a new way to game the government grant system by upcharging $2000 for the 19's, but having the 18's technically available... you just have to wait a year if you want those. 

Take a look on autotrader for used Model 3s, we live in crazy times.

----------


## heavyD

> You're the second least likely member on this entire forum to research and purchase a Tesla.
> 
> Prove me wrong.



I don't need to prove anything ha ha ha. Not exactly sure why you would think that given I've never been a brand loyal person and have always moved from brand to brand. I am on my 2nd BMW in a row but that's the first time I've ever stuck with a brand on back to back vehicles.




> The RWD with 19" wheels is June '22 and if you want 18" it's September '22. I think they found a new way to game the government grant system by upcharging $2000 for the 19's, but having the 18's technically available... you just have to wait a year if you want those. 
> 
> Take a look on autotrader for used Model 3s, we live in crazy times.



So it's the standard range model 3's that are long delivery.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> I don't need to prove anything ha ha ha. Not exactly sure why you would think that given I've never been a brand loyal person and have always moved from brand to brand. I am on my 2nd BMW in a row but that's the first time I've ever stuck with a brand on back to back vehicles.
> 
> 
> 
> So it's the standard range model 3's that are long delivery.



iIRC you are one of the staunch critics of refinement, fit & feel and it sounds like that isn't a Tesla strong suit.

----------


## hurrdurr

> I'll PM you closer to Black Friday to see if I will for sure pick up the MPP coilovers. Chances are it'll be a go as long as there's a reasonable sale on them. Here's a link to my T-Sportline springs FYI: https://tsportline.com/products/tesl...22372591992892
> 
> The P3's rear brakes are rather large. Just have to be sure that the inner diameter of the wheel barrel will clear the brakes; there aren't many options though... I too have 18s wrapped with studded Hakka 8s, but I'm cutting it close (credit card thickness maybe). These are RAC R04 wheels in 18x8.5 et35 from UrbanX. Costs just under $1k for the set. The ones that Benyl has are guaranteed to fit no problem though.
> 
> Attachment 102628
> 
> Attachment 102629



No problem - I am in no rush - Did you notice any difference to ride quality? 

Also for sizing down (18") from 20" on Performance did you notice an increase in range?

----------


## heavyD

> iIRC you are one of the staunch critics of refinement, fit & feel and it sounds like that isn't a Tesla strong suit.



It's important to me but I have owned Subaru, Mitsubishi, Ford, Chrysler vehicles and those aren't brands I would consider overly refined or high quality.

----------


## killramos

Heavy D would make a great handle for a Tesla owner

----------


## mo_money2supe

> No problem - I am in no rush - Did you notice any difference to ride quality? 
> 
> Also for sizing down (18") from 20" on Performance did you notice an increase in range?



The front springs are linear and slightly heavier spring rates than OEM. The rears are progressive with a significantly lower spring rate in the top half, and about OEM spring rates in the bottom half. So overall, I actually find the ride plusher than OEM. You still know you're on springs only on the heavy bumps but as a DD, it's by far the most comfortable spring-only set-up I've driven and ridden in, with handling to boot. You're welcome to take my car for a spin before committing of course. I do also have F/R Eibach sways so the car feels that much tighter than with just springs.

My 20s are flow formed and 18s are cast, so both sets actually weigh about the same. If anything, the 18s have a higher outer centrifugal mass due to the additional rubber. Not to mention they're also studded. I use about 25 Wh/km more in winter but that's more likely due to HVAC use and parking outside in the cold at work more than it has to do with the wheel weights or tire compound. Those OEM 20s are heavy though...if you're wanting to stick with 20s, get flow formed or forged wheels and your efficiency will improve greatly.

----------


## redblack

Supply chain issues really hitting the hardware stores hard. I’m trying to self install a 14-50R plug in my garage and can’t find any 6/3 nmd-90 or 2p50A federal stabloc breaker. Home Depot/Lowe’s/Rona/Canadian all sold out. Managed to order a Hubble plug off of Amazon though. Good thing my delivery got pushed back until June so I got time.

----------


## benyl

> Supply chain issues really hitting the hardware stores hard. I’m trying to self install a 14-50R plug in my garage and can’t find any 6/3 nmd-90 or 2p50A federal stabloc breaker. Home Depot/Lowe’s/Rona/Canadian all sold out. Managed to order a Hubble plug off of Amazon though. Good thing my delivery got pushed back until June so I got time.



How much 6/3 do you need? I have about 15 ft loose right now and another 65 feet or so that I will "uninstall" when we move in January.

I also have a spare one of these as I put in a HPWC and went to 60A.

----------


## hurrdurr

> The front springs are linear and slightly heavier spring rates than OEM. The rears are progressive with a significantly lower spring rate in the top half, and about OEM spring rates in the bottom half. So overall, I actually find the ride plusher than OEM. You still know you're on springs only on the heavy bumps but as a DD, it's by far the most comfortable spring-only set-up I've driven and ridden in, with handling to boot. You're welcome to take my car for a spin before committing of course. I do also have F/R Eibach sways so the car feels that much tighter than with just springs.
> 
> My 20s are flow formed and 18s are cast, so both sets actually weigh about the same. If anything, the 18s have a higher outer centrifugal mass due to the additional rubber. Not to mention they're also studded. I use about 25 Wh/km more in winter but that's more likely due to HVAC use and parking outside in the cold at work more than it has to do with the wheel weights or tire compound. Those OEM 20s are heavy though...if you're wanting to stick with 20s, get flow formed or forged wheels and your efficiency will improve greatly.



I may take you up on that - thank you.

What are you guys averaging for KWH? My lifetime is about 170KWH with about 10,000kms. I noticed last week it was tough to keep under 200

----------


## benyl

Last winter for comparison:

----------


## killramos

Can you change the colour of your wheels in the system? Haha

----------


## benyl

> Can you change the colour of your wheels in the system? Haha



Just to the stock colours. They don’t have “bronze”. It’s mainly to set the configuration so that the range estimate matches. 20” summers gets 450km max, 18” winters puts me at 499km max range on the “fuel gauge.” You’ll never hit that though, summer or winter.

----------


## mo_money2supe

I'm right around the same. The flow formed 20s make a world of difference I tell ya! Just need some forged 22s on the X now...

2018 M3P
Summer: 195 Wh/km
Winter: 220 Wh/km
Lifetime: 200 Wh/km

2017 X90D
Summer: 220 Wh/km
Winter: 250 Wh/km
Lifetime: 225 Wh/km

We put on much more mileage in summer than winter, hence the skewed lifetime averages.

----------


## killramos

> Just to the stock colours. They dont have bronze. Its mainly to set the configuration so that the range estimate matches. 20 summers gets 450km max, 18 winters puts me at 499km max range on the fuel gauge. Youll never hit that though, summer or winter.



Hey thats pretty cool though. Id be lying if I said the M2 pictogram on my phone having the wrong wheels doesnt bother me a little.

Nice touch.

----------


## JustinL

I just got a notification this morning that Tesla wants to replace some parts in the heat pump and check to make sure some other parts are present and not damaged (X950 and X952 electrical and rear power trunk strut o-ring). It will be my first trip in to the Edmonton service center, so I'll see how things go.

----------


## benyl

> I'm right around the same. The flow formed 20s make a world of difference I tell ya! Just need some forged 22s on the X now...
> 
> 2018 M3P
> Summer: 195 Wh/km
> Winter: 220 Wh/km
> Lifetime: 200 Wh/km
> 
> 2017 X90D
> Summer: 220 Wh/km
> ...



I think that once I move out of Edgemont, it should go down. I live in Edgeridge and it is fucking uphill everywhere from here. It's also uphill to get back here. I'm a little further up Country Hills from the Hampton Co-op. So I'd expect that my lifetime average should go down. Also the heated garage in the new house should help too. haha

----------


## bjstare

> I live in Edgeridge and it is fucking uphill everywhere from here. It's also uphill to get back here.



But.... how can it be both?

I recall it being uphill to get to your place and downhill to leave. haha

----------


## rage2

> But.... how can it be both?
> 
> I recall it being uphill to get to your place and downhill to leave. haha



There’s losses every time you convert energy. Driving flat will always be more efficient than using more energy to go up and recapturing energy going down.

----------


## benyl

> But.... how can it be both?
> 
> I recall it being uphill to get to your place and downhill to leave. haha



Ah, young lad. Didn't you know it is uphill both ways in 10ft of snow?

As you might recall, I live somewhere around the X in the middle of the map.

When I leave, if I go west on Country Hills, it's uphill. If I go east, I never go past Shag and so I have to climb the hill over nose hill. The merge from CHB to Shag is always "fun" and more throttle is required to get up the hill.  :Smilie: 

Anything east of Shag is like going to the NE and yes, is down hill, but I hardly ever go there.

When I come back home, it's usually up the hill on shag (down the other side) but up again on CHB. Sure, if I come home using Sarcee, I go downhill at the end, but I still have to get to the top of the hill at Superstore.

Seriously, I feel like I am driving up hill all the time here... lol

*All arrows are pointed uphill*

----------


## bjstare

That makes a lot more sense.

@rage2
, my comment wasn't nearly as deep as your reply. Get out of here with your conservation of energy and efficiency of recapture BS  :ROFL!:

----------


## rage2

> That makes a lot more sense.
> 
> @rage2
> , my comment wasn't nearly as deep as your reply. Get out of here with your conservation of energy and efficiency of recapture BS



Lol don’t worry we play the same game in our sienna haha. It’s the only interesting thing I have when I’m forced to drive the damn thing.

----------


## flipstah

Is the inventory all new and builds? I don't see any landed products in the Tesla website.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Is the inventory all new and builds? I don't see any landed products in the Tesla website.



Best inventory site I've found is this one: https://tesla-info.com/ Click the Inventory drop-down at the top, and select "Tesla Inventory (Data Table Format)."

It'll list all cars FS whether they're new or used (sold directly by Tesla or private sales). The annoying thing is once you isolate the search for Canada, you can't further filter by Province. You get what you get from 'Mericans... No inventory at any Tesla store in Canada right now it looks like.

----------


## JustinL

Here's mine after about 1 year of driving

----------


## redblack

> How much 6/3 do you need? I have about 15 ft loose right now and another 65 feet or so that I will "uninstall" when we move in January.
> 
> I also have a spare one of these as I put in a HPWC and went to 60A.
> 
> Attachment 102651
> Attachment 102652



Pmd

----------


## hurrdurr

> 18" Fast FC04s. Light and cheap and look decent. I went with Fast FC04 18x9.5 +35 5x114.3. Put a 245-45-18 tire on it.
> 
> The hubcentric part number is 872702641C
> 
> Bronze is not approved for winter... but I don't care. haha
> 
> Attachment 102619



If anyone is looking partsengine.ca has 10% off all tire/wheel purchased right now (PSG21BF) so I was able to get these for $250each in 19x9.5

----------


## JustinL

Another week, another price bump. But this time the RWD is over the federal grant maximum. There's only $7000 difference now between the RWD and the dual motor long range, so I imagine there are some price bumps on the dual motor cars in the pipeline.

----------


## heavyD

> Another week, another price bump. But this time the RWD is over the federal grant maximum. There's only $7000 difference now between the RWD and the dual motor long range, so I imagine there are some price bumps on the dual motor cars in the pipeline.



It's getting a little out of control isn't it? This isn't the US where people will line up to pay ADM charged. Canadians are cheap when it comes to vehicles.

----------


## hurrdurr

Im at Tesla right now

245/45/19

FC04 19x9.5 +35 offset

Theyre saying the rims dont clear the control arm in the front and cant put them on. Anyone know why?

----------


## eglove

> I’m at Tesla right now
> 
> 245/45/19
> 
> FC04 19x9.5 +35 offset
> 
> They’re saying the rims don’t clear the control arm in the front and can’t put them on. Anyone know why?




Performance? Probably the tires too tall, might need to space them out another few MM

I'm LR AWD

Running 245/40/18 on 8.5" +25

----------


## hurrdurr

Yeah 2021 Performance. 

I wanted spacers anyway lol now I can justify it

----------


## JustinL

Tires or rim not clearing? That tire is 1.5" bigger OD than stock, so spacing it out might not buy the clearance you need. Get more details before you take the next step.

----------


## JustinL

This is the clearance you are working with. This pic is from my SR+, but it gives you an idea of where you are going to run into issues.

----------


## bjstare

> Tires or rim not clearing? That tire is 1.5" bigger OD than stock, so spacing it out might not buy the clearance you need. Get more details before you take the next step.



Lol, 1.5" bigger than stock OD. Is it just me, or is that really poorly chosen wheel/tire specs? That's fucking huge.

----------


## npham

> Lol, 1.5" bigger than stock OD. Is it just me, or is that really poorly chosen wheel/tire specs? That's fucking huge.



+1 Also, why go bigger for winters?

----------


## ExtraSlow

Is this a cybertruck?

----------


## killramos

Can the cars computers even accommodate that?

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Is this a cybertruck?



Because that a beefy fucking tire for most cars, in case I wasnt clear. Fuck, if you have to explain the joke....

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Im at Tesla right now
> 
> 245/45/19
> 
> FC04 19x9.5 +35 offset
> 
> Theyre saying the rims dont clear the control arm in the front and cant put them on. Anyone know why?



Those are definitely way too big. Spacers aren't gonna do much for ya. The correct size is 235/40/19 but you could easily sneak a 245/40/19 on there. Not sure why you went with a 45 profile tire.

----------


## hurrdurr

> Those are definitely way too big. Spacers aren't gonna do much for ya. The correct size is 235/40/19 but you could easily sneak a 245/40/19 on there. Not sure why you went with a 45 profile tire.



I fucked up :shrug:

----------


## mo_money2supe

> I fucked up :shrug:



You can always make the argument with the place you bought them from that you can't make these tires fit. See if they'll give you a solid credit at least, especially if you re-buy the correct size from them. Worth a try anyway. But if you do stick with the taller wheels, don't think you'll ever be able to make it work with lowering the car unfortunately.

----------


## nzwasp

https://techcrunch.com/2021/12/02/te...-atv-for-kids/

The specs on this seem much weaker than any atv that you could buy on the market. I mean i guess you need to be less than 150lbs to ride it. 

15 Mile Range but only goes 10 MPH which seems super slow. About 10x faster than one of those plastic kids toys that you see kids driving around the neigborhood.

----------


## bjstare

> You can always make the argument with the place you bought them from that you can't make these tires fit. See if they'll give you a solid credit at least, especially if you re-buy the correct size from them. Worth a try anyway. But if you do stick with the taller wheels, don't think you'll ever be able to make it work with lowering the car unfortunately.



No way a shop sold him a size this out of whack. I'll bet you a case of cheap beer that these were a kijiji find, or ill-informed experiment.

----------


## eglove

Any tricks to combat the condensation on the inside of the windows? Never had a car that fogged up this much on the inside before during winter. I’ve always got A/C on, no recirc. Might have to get some bags of silica and put them under the seats or something.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Open the fucking windows. The air outdoors is dry, use that.

----------


## killramos

Kick the snow off your feet before you get in the vehicle?

----------


## pheoxs

> Any tricks to combat the condensation on the inside of the windows? Never had a car that fogged up this much on the inside before during winter. I’ve always got A/C on, no recirc. Might have to get some bags of silica and put them under the seats or something.



Get a wet shop vac and if you come home and have a ton of snow in on the mats from being out and about just vacuum it up so it doesn't stay in the car. Would be my only guess why it all melts and gets humid inside.

----------


## eglove

Well that escalated quickly lol  didn’t expect answers like that. But anyways. I feel like an idiot. I didn’t realize when I had people in the car over a week ago that there was snow in the rear floor liners . And the way the floor liners sit they kinda angle forward so there was ice build up under the seat. Couldn’t really see it at first glance cause I have both front seats all the way back when there’s nobody sitting in the back. Cleaned it out and no issues now

----------


## ExtraSlow

Curses are my way of showing my love.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Curses are my way of showing my love.



You put a curse on him? What a fuckin Gyp!!
Don't you know there's a climate emergency!

----------


## dirtsniffer

Mind the gap

----------


## Buster

ooh lawd

----------


## killramos

I can see the tent shadows etched into the paint

----------


## bjstare

999/1000 Tesla owners would not notice or care. I know a few people with teslas and the only one that would notice a panel gap is a car guy beyond.ca nerd like the rest of us.

----------


## rage2

> 999/1000 Tesla owners would not notice or care. I know a few people with teslas and the only one that would notice a panel gap is a car guy beyond.ca nerd like the rest of us.



This. My boss’s Tesla has inconsistent gaps in every direction. He never noticed at all nor did he care. “Trunk closes fine what’s the problem?”

Drove my OCD insane. Every picture I took of the car was like fingernails to chalkboard in my brain.

----------


## taemo

@kvg
 seems to be having issues with heating and driver windows seal on their new Tesla 3 and he was interviewed by CTV. hope to see the story.

----------


## eglove

Yea my drivers window fogs up like a motherfucker in this cold, heating seems to be fixed after the update the other day that was pushed for the heat pump

----------


## benyl

I don't envy Heat Pump owners right now.

----------


## JustinL

So far mine's been ok. Preconditioning still gets it up to temperature quickly after a work day parked outside in the cold. It consumes a bunch of charge, but at least it works. Leaving from my house with the heated garage in the mornings is fine as expected. The only change in my routine is I jam some extra charge into the car first thing in the morning before I drive away (up to 85%). I'm getting home with about 45%.

The RWD cars aren't great in the snow. The traction and stability control is too strong and it's frustrating to try to make the car dance. I put the slipstart on, but I'd kill for a sport mode.

----------


## rage2

> I don't envy Heat Pump owners right now.



Don't heat pump cars have electrical heating as well?

----------


## diamondedge

> The RWD cars aren't great in the snow. The traction and stability control is too strong and it's frustrating to try to make the car dance. I put the slipstart on, but I'd kill for a sport mode.



A friend of mine has one and he let me give a whirl. This echoes my sentiments, the slip-start/ice start mode lets the car get a TOUCH of angle but it intervenes pretty early. It won't do donuts on a glare ice parking lot, that's for sure. We tried. Haha.

----------


## BerserkerCatSplat

> Don't heat pump cars have electrical heating as well?



No, it appears they removed the PTC heater from all Teslas equipped with the heat pump. (all Model Y's and MY2021+ for the other models)

----------


## rage2

> No, it appears they removed the PTC heater from all Teslas equipped with the heat pump. (all Model Y's and MY2021+ for the other models)



That seems crazy for Canadian winters.

----------


## benyl

> That seems crazy for Canadian winters.



The way I understand it, the 8 way valve scavenges heat from the battery pack / motors. But if the car is dead cold, it's worse than an ICE to get any heat at any point. As I said in another thread, California car.

----------


## heavyD

> That seems crazy for Canadian winters.



Behind the scenes Elon has been stripping these cars down. Model 3 and Y are stripper vehicles with less features than most economy cars.

----------


## eglove

Anyone want a centre console organizer? Got an extra one and don’t need it

- - - Updated - - -

Also, this arrived today. Dropped it off for paint. Should be back by the weekend

----------


## heavyD

Spoiler or lip?

----------


## eglove

front lip! Just waiting for PPF then it can be installed

edit. Love iPhone upside down pics

----------


## mo_money2supe

Definitely in for post-install pics! Can you also take a before/after measurement of the ground-to-front lip clearance? I'm guessing the lowest point will be right in front of the front wheels.

----------


## eglove

Honestly I don't think it's going to be much lower then the bottom most portion of the bumper - if anything maybe 1/4-3/8" 

But will for sure do some measurements, and I am lowered with eibach model 3 performance springs, not LR ones so have a slight reverse rake in my favour

----------


## mo_money2supe

Even better coming from someone lowered! I'm currently on T-Sportline springs (~1.25") with no rake, but do have MPP coilovers sitting in a box at home. Just waiting for it to warm up (and 
@hurrdurr
 to get off his ass to help me!  :Angel: ) before I install. If it's barely 3/8", I can adjust the height as needed. I find the 3's front ends are just too plain out of the box.

----------


## eglove

> Even better coming from someone lowered! I'm currently on T-Sportline springs (~1.25") with no rake, but do have MPP coilovers sitting in a box at home. Just waiting for it to warm up (and @hurrdurr to get off his ass to help me! ) before I install. If it's barely 3/8", I can adjust the height as needed. I find the 3's front ends are just too plain out of the box.



I'm down to help with some coils, I wanna do some on mine. But my dumbass somehow broke the ABS sensors on the spring install so I don't really wanna do anything again haha. I really wanna do air suspension again. But too much $$$ right now

----------


## hurrdurr

> I'm down to help with some coils, I wanna do some on mine. But my dumbass somehow broke the ABS sensors on the spring install so I don't really wanna do anything again haha. I really wanna do air suspension again. But too much $$$ right now



YAY 
@eglove
 can help too LOL.

----------


## mo_money2supe

Awesome sauce! I'm looking into buying a QuickJack lift so stay tuned. I've done at least a dozen suspension swaps (alone no less) using only jack stands and jacks in my garage - never again. I'll give you gents a shout to set something up soon once I figure something out on my end. Man, the cost of MPP coils and a lift could've easily gotten me bags by now...

----------


## redblack

> Awesome sauce! I'm looking into buying a QuickJack lift so stay tuned. I've done at least a dozen suspension swaps (alone no less) using only jack stands and jacks in my garage - never again. I'll give you gents a shout to set something up soon once I figure something out on my end. Man, the cost of MPP coils and a lift could've easily gotten me bags by now...



I have a next to new quickjack 7000Slx that I’m going to sell in the spring. Keep an eye on the buy/sell forum.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> I have a next to new quickjack 7000Slx that I’m going to sell in the spring. Keep an eye on the buy/sell forum.



Do tell more... Price? How soon will you be selling it? Any extras (eg. blocks, hangers, etc)? Why are you selling it so soon?

----------


## pheoxs

Costco has them at the moment too 

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/cost...-1600-2526858/

----------


## eglove

----------- after

----------


## ZenOps

https://electrek.co/2022/03/09/tesla...-prices-surge/

Uncertainty about nickel price means $1,000 more.

----------


## heavyD

> https://electrek.co/2022/03/09/tesla...-prices-surge/
> 
> Uncertainty about nickel price means $1,000 more.



I see the Model 3 performance is still the same price. I've been on the fence of ordering one for months. Maybe I should before they jack the prices again.

----------


## bjstare

> I see the Model 3 performance is still the same price. I've been on the fence of ordering one for months. Maybe I should before they jack the prices again.



As of the last little while, at least, Teslas are like Rolexes. If you think you might want one at some point, the best time to buy is right now.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> I see the Model 3 performance is still the same price. I've been on the fence of ordering one for months. Maybe I should before they jack the prices again.



It seems less about having prices and more about slashing options, to me.

----------


## benyl

> It seems less about having prices and more about slashing options, to me.



What options. You can only pick your outside and inside colors. The rest of the build is the same based on build date.

----------


## heavyD

> What options. You can only pick your outside and inside colors. The rest of the build is the same based on build date.



I assume he's talking about the removal of the radar sensors, Homelink, passenger lumbar support, USB data in all ports (now only possible through the glove compartment), etc. It's not like the original cars were exactly loaded vehicles so the removal of those items does make these cars very basic at their price point. It looks like the performance models also no longer receiver lowered springs as they removed the lowered ride height from the description after customer complained that their performance models had more wheel gap than long range models.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> What options. You can only pick your outside and inside colors. The rest of the build is the same based on build date.



What's all the talk earlier about them stripping some magic heat pump out for something else that makes the cabin freezing in extremely cold weather?

----------


## JustinL

The heatpump is standard for all the new cars. I don't think they are going to be pulling that out as the whole heating/cooling system of the car is designed around it. They're going to have to figure it out a bit better because of the problems that were happening over the deep freeze though. I park in a heated garage and pre-condition if I have to leave it outside and I had no problems with the heat pump even in the brutal cold we had.

----------


## heavyD

> The heatpump is standard for all the new cars. I don't think they are going to be pulling that out as the whole heating/cooling system of the car is designed around it. They're going to have to figure it out a bit better because of the problems that were happening over the deep freeze though. I park in a heated garage and pre-condition if I have to leave it outside and I had no problems with the heat pump even in the brutal cold we had.



I believe the original plan was to keep a resistive heater for backup and that was scrapped to cut costs (forgot to list that in my previous post). IMO this is something Canadian cars should have.

----------


## JustinL

Agreed. They motor can be used as a big resistor for pre-conditioning, but I'm not sure if it can be used like that when driving.

----------


## benyl

They are overly focused on efficiency. Removal of the ability to set low regen is a result of that. The motors can produce heat while driving, but there is a limit. I drove from Edmonton to Red Deer and got the shittiest efficiency because the car start it pre conditioning cycle at Leduc, over 100kms away. Glad I still have some free supercharging.

Sure, bits and pieces of the car have been removed. Name me a manufacturer that doesn't do that. De-contenting is another way to raise prices and all manufacturers do it.

My 2019 didn't get a frunk mat. I picked up the car 2 weeks too late for that. My 2020 lost the door pocket lights and the grocery hooks. I can't tell you the last time I opened the frunk for anything other than adding windshield washer fluid. My 2020 also lacks a dead pedal that my 2019 has.

The spec evolves over time. I really wanted the heat pump when it was first announced. I sure am glad I don't have it.

The car is really like an Evo or an STi. Econobox with 500+hp.

----------


## ExtraSlow

De-contenting is an industry-wide phenomenon, and I wouldn't consider Tesla to be the worst offender in that.

----------


## heavyD

> De-contenting is an industry-wide phenomenon, and I wouldn't consider Tesla to be the worst offender in that.



I would but that's my opinion. Other manufacturers are de-contenting because of supply chain issues. Tesla's de-contenting is permanent cost cutting as the removed features are never coming back.

----------


## richardchan2002

> I would but that's my opinion. Other manufacturers are de-contenting because of supply chain issues. Tesla's de-contenting is permanent cost cutting as the removed features are never coming back.



Plus they keep raising prices as they decontent. Profit margin is getting pretty good on these cars. So much for the $35k car for the masses.

----------


## rage2

> I would but that's my opinion. Other manufacturers are de-contenting because of supply chain issues. Tesla's de-contenting is permanent cost cutting as the removed features are never coming back.



You also get credit for it. For all the missing features that were standard or part of packages I ordered, I got about 1k off.

----------


## heavyD

> Plus they keep raising prices as they decontent. Profit margin is getting pretty good on these cars. So much for the $35k car for the masses.



The base Model 3 now starts at $61,380 CAD, LR starts at $71,990, Performance at $81,490. I don't understand how so many people can afford these cars now.

----------


## killramos

They never could.

----------


## ExtraSlow

The $35k Tesla never existed outside of marketing. It's no car-of-the-people.

----------


## JustinL

I'm going to try to flip my SR+ once I take delivery of the Cayenne. I think it was a great buy at $47K (CAD) after rebates when it came with more features and the better battery. Now at $61K, a 6 month wait with a slightly worse car it's a no go.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> I'm going to try to flip my SR+ once I take delivery of the Cayenne. I think it was a great buy at $47K (CAD) after rebates when it came with more features and the better battery. Now at $61K, a 6 month wait with a slightly worse car it's a no go.



What's the resale like for those? I'd imagine pretty strong like everything else these days.

----------


## benyl

I'm wondering how long it will be before I can sell my M3Ps for what I paid. Then again, gas prices...

----------


## killramos

> I'm wondering how long it will be before I can sell my M3Ps for what I paid. Then again, gas prices...



The issue is what would you replace them with haha

Calgary BMW has a miled up 10 year old M3 in their showroom for over 70 grand this morning lol

Almost nothing else in the showroom either.

----------


## JustinL

> What's the resale like for those? I'd imagine pretty strong like everything else these days.



It seems like people are asking 62ish before the price hike yesterday. I think getting a car right now instead of waiting is a big driver of the used price. New is 65,500 after GST and a long wait. I'll put up an add in the $62K range and see what happens.

----------


## heavyD

> The issue is what would you replace them with haha
> 
> Calgary BMW has a miled up 10 year old M3 in their showroom for over 70 grand this morning lol
> 
> Almost nothing else in the showroom either.



That orange one? I just looked and they have a 2018 M2 with almost 50k km's asking $65k. I paid $67k new for my 2018 M2 lol.

----------


## redblack

Picked up my 2022 rwd today. I was expecting really poor fit and finish but it was surprisingly good. LFP battery charged to 100% yields 440km which is more than enough for a city commuter.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Picked up my 2022 rwd today. I was expecting really poor fit and finish but it was surprisingly good. LFP battery charged to 100% yields 440km which is more than enough for a city commuter.



Nice, congrats dude! Looks like you've got the matrix headlights too. Get those white seats ceramic coated if you haven't booked it in already. You know how to reach me if you have any questions or just want to have car chat again!

----------


## ExtraSlow

Looks. Good bro

----------


## redblack

> Nice, congrats dude! Looks like you've got the matrix headlights too. Get those white seats ceramic coated if you haven't booked it in already. You know how to reach me if you have any questions or just want to have car chat again!



Thanks man, yeah the matrix headlights are superbright and the first thing I did when I got it home is apply a coat of Gyeon leather shield. It’s off to ppf today and I’ll ceramic coat the exterior this weekend. 120v charging is slow, hoping to install a 240v system in the coming weeks once I get all the parts lined up. I’ll be sure to reach out to you for questions/advice on the the car if something comes up!

----------


## benyl

I envy the headlights. Curious how long before they activate them. Also wonder if they will be retrofittable. The other retrofit I want is the AMD chip.

Enjoy the car!

----------


## JustinL

Well I'm out. Sold the Model 3 SR+ after 18 months of regular commuting for a profit. It was a fun experience and I'm definitely getting another electric once the market calms down a bit. I don't think it will be a Tesla next time, but we'll see what happens. In the mean time I'm driving my old VW touareg with a CEL iluminated haha.

----------


## Brent.ff

https://youtu.be/uA42AmEVnmo

Somebody decided this Tesla on glenmore deserved no mirrors

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> https://youtu.be/uA42AmEVnmo
> 
> Somebody decided this Tesla on glenmore deserved no mirrors



Sorry I avoided your negligence??!
What is there even to be mad at the Tesla about?!

----------


## vengie

How the actual fuck does that whiner have 872k followers on YouTube... Jesus.

----------


## heavyD

> Sorry I avoided your negligence??!
> What is there even to be mad at the Tesla about?!



It's a good lesson on why brake checking is dumb. The guy driving the Toyota is an idiot and cut off the Tesla driver but if you pull off a brake check prepare to suffer the consequences. That said I hope they get an ID on the Toyota owner as kicking the mirrors off is over the top and unnecessary. In fact the whole thing was dangerous stopping traffic there and I hope the MB driver gets slapped on the wrist as well.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> It's a good lesson on why brake checking is dumb. The guy driving the Toyota is an idiot and cut off the Tesla driver but if you pull off a brake check prepare to suffer the consequences. That said I hope they get an ID on the Toyota owner as kicking the mirrors off is over the top and unnecessary. In fact the whole thing was dangerous stopping traffic there and I hope the MB driver gets slapped on the wrist as well.



It looked like the Toyota was coming up at ramming speed with his Mercedes bro by that point regardless, didn't it? 
Then they pull the Johannesburg manoeuvre like they were literally going to carjack the fucking Tesla.
Criminal charges for Dangerous Driving for both heroes and have fun traveling after conviction with criminal records.

----------


## killramos

Did someone just post a snowcat video lol

----------


## ExtraSlow

Someone posted something in the wrong thread.

----------


## benyl

> Did someone just post a snowcat video lol



Question is, how did they come across it? Must be a snowcat fan. 872K subscribers… must be doing something right.

----------


## Brent.ff

> Question is, how did they come across it? Must be a snowcat fan. 872K subscribers… must be doing something right.



someone on a 4Runner Toyota page posted it and asked who karate kicked a Tesla. Who da fuck is snowcat

----------


## rage2

I’m a 
@snowcat
 fan.

The hate is all bandwagon hate imo. He’s a good guy.

----------


## ExtraSlow

I'm a fan of his mom.

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

> I’m a @snowcat fan.
> 
> The hate is all bandwagon hate imo. He’s a good guy.



First guy to ride with me after I got my bike license. But did the tesla even brake check the dude, or just let off the accelerator? Like it's an electric car, if you're not on the pedal, the car will slow down.

----------


## rage2

> First guy to ride with me after I got my bike license. But did the tesla even brake check the dude, or just let off the accelerator? Like it's an electric car, if you're not on the pedal, the car will slow down.



Those are worst than brake checks. 

Or maybe it was just phantom braking. There was a bridge there haha.

----------


## zechs

> Sorry I avoided your negligence??!
> What is there even to be mad at the Tesla about?!



This was a wild case of road rage, and even with the "brake check", there was no excuse for the suv driver. stunning sense of entitlement on display, that the Tesla not be allowed to pass him for reasons?

If somebody gets up my ass (no homo toilet_x), I'm definitely slowing down so they go around.

----------


## eglove

I think the Tesla driver just let off the accelerator after changing lanes and panicked. It brakes quite hard when you let off at highway speeds

Looks like the 4runner drivers business pages are getting hammed - instagram down, linked in pics gone. 

Kick mirrors win stupid prizes

----------


## killramos

0 sympathy for that Cro-Magnon

----------


## benyl

nah, total brake check. Decel is hard, but not that hard. It also looks like the 4runner dude was pissed about getting cut off himself even before the brake check.

Lucky for Tesla dude, that off ramp he was on was for the Tesla Service Center. He only had a 100m to go for repairs. But I bet they are booking 3 weeks out in advance. Even if the parts are available.

I can't believe there are still people out there that don't know that almost all Tesla are rolling CCTV stations.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> 0 sympathy for that Cro-Magnon



Maybe someone will sign him up for Dollar Shave Club.

----------


## bjstare

> I think the Tesla driver just let off the accelerator after changing lanes and panicked. It brakes quite hard when you let off at highway speeds
> 
> Looks like the 4runner drivers business pages are getting hammed - instagram down, linked in pics gone. 
> 
> Kick mirrors win stupid prizes



Looks like this is the MB driver

https://www.facebook.com/ali.hammoud.54379

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

Play stupid games...

----------


## heavyD

> nah, total brake check. Decel is hard, but not that hard. It also looks like the 4runner dude was pissed about getting cut off himself even before the brake check.
> 
> Lucky for Tesla dude, that off ramp he was on was for the Tesla Service Center. He only had a 100m to go for repairs. But I bet they are booking 3 weeks out in advance. Even if the parts are available.
> 
> I can't believe there are still people out there that don't know that almost all Tesla are rolling CCTV stations.



Dude pissed about getting cut off by the car he just cut off and sadly that appears to be a Calgary thing where most drivers are incredibly oblivious to their surroundings yet expect other drivers to drive with a level of attention they can't be bothered to adhere to. I'm glad he's getting what he deserves but brake checking is something that needs to end as it's incredibly stupid on a lot of levels.




> Looks like this is the MB driver
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/ali.hammoud.54379



LOL makes sense. Facebook sucks but to have your car as your profile photo is so lame.

----------


## Rocket1k78

> Looks like this is the MB driver
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/ali.hammoud.54379



Confirmed?

----------


## benyl

> Confirmed?



look at the comments on the video. Someone called them out right away.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> LOL makes sense. Facebook sucks but to have your car as your profile photo is so lame.



A family friends boytoy has a Instagram account just for his truck, lol. It's not done in humor either.




> look at the comments on the video. Someone called them out right away.




And now they're apparently trying to get scats home address. These are definitely stable people.

----------


## Buster

I think the cops will take this seriously.

Inshallah

----------


## Rocket1k78

> look at the comments on the video. Someone called them out right away.



just looked. Man what a bunch of morons. Sounds like they want scats addy too, you cant fix stupid lol

----------


## hurrdurr

> How the actual fuck does that whiner have 872k followers on YouTube... Jesus.



Considering the amount of views his videos get I would say its about 850,000 fake subs lol

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Im a 
> @snowcat
>  fan.
> 
> The hate is all bandwagon hate imo. Hes a good guy.



Snowcat hate is like 89coupe hate. They've both said too much dumb shit to not make fun of them.

----------


## tha_bandit

> ... brake checking is something that needs to end as it's incredibly stupid on a lot of levels.



reminds me of my experiences in the dash cam thread lol

----------


## Xtrema

> Considering the amount of views his videos get I would say its about 850,000 fake subs lol



I think one of his vids went viral and sub count goes up. But view count has been pretty low for a long time until this video which is getting quite a bit of attention.

I'm surprised people still do dumb shit since cameras are everywhere.

----------


## benyl

Another cut to the standard features. The mobile connector is no longer included with the car. haha.

Truth be told, I have 2 that I never use. I'd get the HPWC over the mobile connector for $260 more for charging at home.

----------


## eglove

I use my mobile connector all the time. I didn’t get the wall charger for the garage. Didn’t think $600 was worth the couple hours time saved overnight 

sucks though for new owners as they’ll have to have that all sorted before they get their car.

----------


## danno

Are any Tesla owners considering other electric cars that are coming?? If so which ones??

----------


## pheoxs

> Are any Tesla owners considering other electric cars that are coming?? If so which ones??



Not a Tesla owner but really like the Ioniq 5. Figure Ill give it year or two to iron out the usual first model year issues.

----------


## vengie

Agreed on the Ioniq 5. 
I think that is the most sensible, affordable DD electric car out there.

On the upper end I'd like to see what Lucid does.

----------


## heavyD

> Another cut to the standard features. The mobile connector is no longer included with the car. haha.
> 
> Truth be told, I have 2 that I never use. I'd get the HPWC over the mobile connector for $260 more for charging at home.



Seems like an inevitability that one day passenger and back seats will not be included and will have to be purchased separately. Elon will justify by saying that logs showed almost no usage.

----------


## benyl

> Seems like an inevitability that one day passenger and back seats will not be included and will have to be purchased separately. Elon will justify by saying that logs showed almost no usage.



He did that will passenger lumbar support.

It's interesting that people cry foul when features, that aren't used are removed. Sure, I would prefer that the the price of the car goes down as a reflection of that, but we all know that isn't going to happen.

I hate packaged options, but I also cannot afford the bespoke model that Porsche employs.

Many cars just carry around dead weight for motors and other things that people simply don't use. I turned off the mirror dimming in my cars because I can't see shit at night with my tint and dimming enabled. There was a 6 month period where dimming mirrors were provided.

They cut the frunk mat just before I took delivery of my first car. I was annoyed. Turns out, I never use the frunk and it would be just be a 1lb of weight that I carry with the car all the time and have no use for. There is an argument to be made about the car's efficiency, but we all know most of these cuts are to get more profit to Tesla.

----------


## oilerfan4lyfe

> Are any Tesla owners considering other electric cars that are coming?? If so which ones??



I have a deposit down on the Genesis GV60. Current M3LR owner. If I like the GV, I'll be ditching the Model 3. Most of what I love is because my car is electric, most of what I hate is because it's a Tesla.

----------


## dirtsniffer

wait.. teslas don't come with dimming mirrors?

----------


## heavyD

> He did that will passenger lumbar support.
> 
> It's interesting that people cry foul when features, that aren't used are removed. Sure, I would prefer that the the price of the car goes down as a reflection of that, but we all know that isn't going to happen.
> 
> I hate packaged options, but I also cannot afford the bespoke model that Porsche employs.
> 
> Many cars just carry around dead weight for motors and other things that people simply don't use. I turned off the mirror dimming in my cars because I can't see shit at night with my tint and dimming enabled. There was a 6 month period where dimming mirrors were provided.
> 
> They cut the frunk mat just before I took delivery of my first car. I was annoyed. Turns out, I never use the frunk and it would be just be a 1lb of weight that I carry with the car all the time and have no use for. There is an argument to be made about the car's efficiency, but we all know most of these cuts are to get more profit to Tesla.



It's a $60+ electric car. It should come with a basic charging cable but as you say it's another cost cutting move that fattens Tesla profits. Seems to me like Elon is attempting to cash in while he can as he knows this is peak times for his company and once legacy automakers get their EV's out in mass quantities it's going to be downhill for Tesla.

----------


## hurrdurr

> It's a $60+ electric car. It should come with a basic charging cable but as you say it's another cost cutting move that fattens Tesla profits. Seems to me like Elon is attempting to cash in while he can as he knows this is peak times for his company and once legacy automakers get their EV's out in mass quantities it's going to be downhill for Tesla.



Could be this - if the mobile connector is so "wasteful" then why wouldn't they just make it an option when you purchase. If you don't want it - price reduction $200 or select something else of similar value, mats perhaps. If you want it, price is MSRP. 

I call bullshit on his data that shows that the mobile connectors are not used. The majority of Tesla owners that I know use it for at home charging and take it with them on road trips too. (me included)

Cost cutting measures with no savings passed along to the consumer after a year of steady price increases seems legit.

----------


## benyl

> wait.. teslas don't come with dimming mirrors?



They do. But there was a period where the "option" was removed. Early 2020 cars didn't get it and I think some really early Model Y.

----------


## Darell_n

> They do. But there was a period where the "option" was removed. Early 2020 cars didn't get it and I think some really early Model Y.



Like the ambient steering wheel and seat option in GMs. Edit: the option to not have it, was removed.

----------


## googe

I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on an S. Might go as far back as 2020 to current if I find a used one that looks attractive, mostly because the wait is so long.

For folks who keep up with the incremental changes and sneaky deletions, are there certain model years or features that are better than others? Any "must haves"? Like better battery tech, better processor, etc? I definitely want the latest and greatest self-driving capability and range.

----------


## benyl

> I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on an S. Might go as far back as 2020 to current if I find a used one that looks attractive, mostly because the wait is so long.
> 
> For folks who keep up with the incremental changes and sneaky deletions, are there certain model years or features that are better than others? Any "must haves"? Like better battery tech, better processor, etc? I definitely want the latest and greatest self-driving capability and range.



For Model S, you will want to make sure it is new enough to have MCU2. So anything built after April 2018.

Most of the changes are listed here:

https://tesla-info.com/blog/tesla-model-history.php

----------


## googe

> For Model S, you will want to make sure it is new enough to have MCU2. So anything built after April 2018.
> 
> Most of the changes are listed here:
> 
> https://tesla-info.com/blog/tesla-model-history.php



Interesting. Seems like a pain to keep track of all that and verify that the car you want has the right things.

I thought I decided to get an older long range model, but then used inventory had a current model Plaid with 10k on it available that didn't require waiting 6 months, so I just impulse bought that. At least I don't have to wait half a year to find out that the door paint doesn't match I suppose. I knew I would regret spending so much on a car, so I ordered it really quickly before common sense set in.

----------


## benyl

> Interesting. Seems like a pain to keep track of all that and verify that the car you want has the right things.
> 
> I thought I decided to get an older long range model, but then used inventory had a current model Plaid with 10k on it available that didn't require waiting 6 months, so I just impulse bought that. At least I don't have to wait half a year to find out that the door paint doesn't match I suppose. I knew I would regret spending so much on a car, so I ordered it really quickly before common sense set in.



baller.

----------


## eglove

I wish I could afford a plaid on a whim. 

/pleb m3 non performance owner

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

> I wish I could afford a plaid on a whim. 
> 
> /pleb m3 non performance owner



I figure it has to be Amazon or Valve money or something similar if he's based out of Seattle.

----------


## googe

It's just that I keep nodding off at the wheel, so this is basically life insurance

Seriously I might just rip around in it for a few months, realize there is no point to having 1000HP, and downgrade to the much more reasonable non-perf S or a 3  :ROFL!:  The resale holds up pretty well these days because of lack of inventory. 

Also, girlfriend just blew her engine and has no way of getting to work, I don't want to give her money, so my brilliant idea was to buy myself a car I wanted anyway, and let her borrow my other one.  :Big Grin:

----------


## rage2

Just curious, but you do realize that most manufacturers have the exact same nodding off at the wheel protection right? Doesn’t detect hands, auto slow down then stop, then throw on hazards. Then there’s the eye detection with a big alarm that goes off to warn you that you need to take a break when it detects when you’re about to fall asleep.

I’m genuinely curious because some of the new Tesla owners thought this shit only exists with Tesla, but I didn’t think you were one of them lol.

----------


## benyl

> Just curious, but you do realize that most manufacturers have the exact same nodding off at the wheel protection right? Doesn’t detect hands, auto slow down then stop, then throw on hazards. Then there’s the eye detection with a big alarm that goes off to warn you that you need to take a break when it detects when you’re about to fall asleep.
> 
> I’m genuinely curious because some of the new Tesla owners thought this shit only exists with Tesla, but I didn’t think you were one of them lol.



Some? Fucking all of them think TACC is the biggest and best thing. Like no other car has it. I fucking hate the average Tesla owner.  It truly is like they have never owned a car before.

----------


## Darkane

> Just curious, but you do realize that most manufacturers have the exact same nodding off at the wheel protection right? Doesn’t detect hands, auto slow down then stop, then throw on hazards. Then there’s the eye detection with a big alarm that goes off to warn you that you need to take a break when it detects when you’re about to fall asleep.
> 
> I’m genuinely curious because some of the new Tesla owners thought this shit only exists with Tesla, but I didn’t think you were one of them lol.



True story. Even a 45k Bolt has the abilities - lifted right from Cadillac.

----------


## googe

> Just curious, but you do realize that most manufacturers have the exact same nodding off at the wheel protection right? Doesn’t detect hands, auto slow down then stop, then throw on hazards. Then there’s the eye detection with a big alarm that goes off to warn you that you need to take a break when it detects when you’re about to fall asleep.
> 
> I’m genuinely curious because some of the new Tesla owners thought this shit only exists with Tesla, but I didn’t think you were one of them lol.



Haha, I think you misunderstood me. It's not that I want the Tesla to stop me from nodding off, it's that I want to nap and let it drive me home. So, hopefully the nodding off protection is terrible and I can just paint my eyelids. Also, I was joking.




> Some? Fucking all of them think TACC is the biggest and best thing. Like no other car has it. I fucking hate the average Tesla owner. It truly is like they have never owned a car before.



So you're talking about different things, right? rage2 was talking about the nodding off protection, you are talking about the "autopilot" tech in general? Are you also saying that the latest "FSD" (beta) is no better than what other manufacturers have?

----------


## benyl

FSD is better, but only a few people have the beta. Have to drive like a granny to qualify. 

It’s still vapourware if you are expecting to sleep. 

A local has the beta and said he had to stop it from crashing into other cars many time while using FSD. It’s good, but not take your eyes off the road good. Plenty of YouTube vids to watch if you are curious.

----------


## heavyD

> I’m genuinely curious because some of the new Tesla owners thought this shit only exists with Tesla, but I didn’t think you were one of them lol.



It's hilarious when you hear Tesla fanboys going on and on about how far Tesla is ahead of legacy automakers when the reality is that they simply aren't paying attention to what other automakers are doing today. Mercedes actually attained level 3 autonomous driving before Tesla lol.

----------


## benyl

> It's hilarious when you hear Tesla fanboys going on and on about how far Tesla is ahead of legacy automakers when the reality is that they simply aren't paying attention to what other automakers are doing today. Mercedes actually attained level 3 autonomous driving before Tesla lol.



It's because most of them are coming from Fords or Hyundais. There is a large population of owners that have bought the car for the perceived savings and are mesmerized by the tech that you couldn't get until recently (Blue cruise is relatively new).

----------


## killramos

Being a Tesla fanboy has a requisite level of cognitive dissonance.

----------


## googe

As far as I can tell, even without FSD Beta, Tesla are still quite a bit better at nearly everything except waking up the driver. What automaker has a car that people can buy with better autonomous tech, and what car is it on?

And Mercedes has not released Level 3 (and Level 3 doesn't necessarily mean better than Level 2). We are mocking people for liking Tesla's tech because there is a prototype on another car that nobody can actually buy and might be better at some things? Speaking of cognitive dissonance, you all realize this is dumber than being a fanboy, right?

BlueCruise is shit and only on the 2021 F-150 and 2021 Mach-E. And it's still vaporware. Owners of the car are promised a future update. Can't do the TransCanada in BC, only prequalified highways that have been mapped.




> How does BlueCruise differ from other competitors?
> BlueCruise differs from other competitors by offering a true hands-free driving experience on pre-qualified sections of road called BlueZones. BlueCruise also uses text and blue lighting cues to communicate that the feature is in hands-free mode. These cues are effective even for drivers with color blindness. 
> 
> How do I check Hands-Free BlueZone coverage in my area prior to purchasing?
> Hands-Free BlueZones are available on over 130,000 miles of highways across North America. An interactive coverage map is coming soon.



So Ford is out.

SuperCruise is shit. If you have a 2020 to 2022 model year car that has it, you only get these roads:


That's competitive tech? I'm sure it works GREAT on the segment of the only route you can even activate it on. But it's not even better on the routes that it does work on, other than you can take your hands off the wheel for extended periods of time...at the cost of a camera tracking your eyeballs.

So, GM is out, at least for me. Nobody wants a CT6 or an Escalade anyway.

Honda...well, they claim Level 3 tech on a Japan model. In North America, it has Adaptive Cruise + Lane Keeping. That's...not impressive.

Mercedes has a 2022 S-class model with Drive Pilot...in Germany. So, nothing. Just ACC+Lane Keeping on some NA models still. It is nice that it can follow cars if lane markings aren't visible. This sounds like the closest thing to non-FSD Tesla, but not better.

Tesla doesn't have "mapped roads", the non-beta tech works from onramp to offramp and has for years. And every car they have gets it. This is still a pretty massive difference.

And most "lane keep assist" systems I've seen are really bad and can't be relied on. Like it gently nudges you back and forth into the lane. Only a few vehicles seem to do actual active lane centering.

Please, talk tech and try to set aside any hard-on or hate-on for Elon. Is all the hate a result of Tesla fans who think literally nothing else exists on other cars? Because objectively speaking I still don't see a worthy autonomous driving competitor that I can order right now. If there is a better system on a car that I can buy, please tell me, because I will buy it.

----------


## rage2

I'm assuming you're talking about highway driving and not driving through city streets with lights and what not? Highway driving is easy, and a surprising # of cars can sorta do it. I installed a defeat device in my E coupe and it drove itself from Calgary to Edmonton without any intervention. Watched the whole thing, set cruise to 120 and it just did its thing all the way. Steep turns in the way? It'll even slow down based on the map (slows down based on drive modes too, so it'll be more aggressive in sport). Even in city streets, my car was able to drive on it's own quite well. It won't stop for lights, but it'll gladly follow the idiot ahead. The video has me touching the wheel because I didn't have a defeat device on it.




I've driven the BMW and Audi ones, and yea, they're roughly the same sort of performance. It's really just auto steer/lane keep and traffic aware cruise control. Now if you're talking about city street and normal driving, even Tesla doesn't have traffic light, lane selection, turns 100% yet, sleeping would be a bit of a death wish today. Just ride a waymo or something.

Edit - just wanted to add, our Toyota Sienna has this same thing as well. It's a bit limited though, it can't turn more than X degrees of steering angle, so it can almost make it to edmonton. 3 or 4 turns are too steep for it's limit. It also sucks as pure self driving because it's clearly not designed for it and expects hand on wheels at all times. It doesn't warn you when it disengages and will happily run off the road lol.

----------


## googe

> I'm assuming you're talking about highway driving and not driving through city streets with lights and what not? Highway driving is easy, and a surprising # of cars can sorta do it. I installed a defeat device in my E coupe and it drove itself from Calgary to Edmonton without any intervention. Watched the whole thing, set cruise to 120 and it just did its thing all the way. Even in city streets, my car was able to drive on it's own quite well. It won't stop for lights, but it'll gladly follow the idiot ahead. The video has me touching the wheel because I didn't have a defeat device on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've driven the BMW and Audi ones, and yea, they're roughly the same sort of performance. It's really just auto steer/lane keep and distance aware cruise control. Now if you're talking about city street and normal driving, even Tesla doesn't have traffic light, lane selection, turns 100% yet, sleeping would be a bit of a death wish today. Just ride a waymo or something.



Haha I need to reiterate that having a nap was a joke. I don't see anyone doing that for 10+ years, for both technical and regulatory reasons, outside of very limited service areas. 

But yeah, I'm completely discounting city street driving (although not city driving where onramps/offramps are involved), the Tesla beta is too unreliable to give them points for that yet.

But "Navigate on Autopilot" seems like a huge step up from ACC+LKA+Follow, even without support for stop signs/lights, although the practical difference in most cases might be small. Still, it's absolutely not _worse_ than any other offering by any reasonable measure, as far as I can tell. So anyone claiming that other automakers are "ahead" of Tesla don't seem to be making sense.


And I have no illusions of it being magical. I've worked in tech long enough to know there's always an edge case your devs didn't think of. There's going to be weird shit like this for a very long time I think. The long tail is long.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

_The long tail is long_ is a very apt description.

----------


## rage2

OK I thought your napping this was legit. I'm like WTF happened to you man haha.

There's still some underlying problems with just base autopilot. Phantom braking is probably the big one, there's enough Teslas in Calgary where I've seen it happen both in front and behind me. Pedestrian bridges on Crowchild around Dalhousie seems to be a trouble spot for them. Not sure how bad it is in Calgary, but in some states it's so bad that people drive manually because there's no basic cruise control at all. I mean it's all subjective, where you live, and your appetite for risk. Some parts of Tesla autopilot are better, some are worse than the rest of the solutions out there.

Navigate on autopilot, let me know how your experience is. My experience was pretty rough, Cali random slow traffic, car would slow down with the slow traffic then decide to change lanes, only to stay slow as fuck (this is a P100D I'm in) then slowly accelerate up to speed. Then it blocks the lane going speed limit, and you know Cali, you need to be doing +25 in the left haha. The lane selection feels really random and made zero sense. The braking was abrupt as hell, but that's because it doesn't see far enough ahead I think? It's basically a useless gimmick to me, I can navigate the lanes 100x better and I don't even know the roads well down there. It feels like NOA, FSD, all this stuff is just layers on top of the base TACC, LKA, LCA tech, which isn't robust enough yet to support it.

----------


## benyl

I am comfortable with my cognitive dissonance. lol.

I know what a Tesla is and isn't. There a many out there that don't.

I like the cars and how easy they make my life. Never have to go to a grubby gas station. No trips to the dealer for oil changes.

The funny thing about many Tesla owners is that they don't believe they are beta testers.

----------


## googe

> OK I thought your napping this was legit. I'm like WTF happened to you man haha.
> 
> There's still some underlying problems with just base autopilot. Phantom braking is probably the big one, there's enough Teslas in Calgary where I've seen it happen both in front and behind me. Pedestrian bridges on Crowchild around Dalhousie seems to be a trouble spot for them. Not sure how bad it is in Calgary, but in some states it's so bad that people drive manually because there's no basic cruise control at all. I mean it's all subjective, where you live, and your appetite for risk. Some parts of Tesla autopilot are better, some are worse than the rest of the solutions out there.
> 
> Navigate on autopilot, let me know how your experience is. My experience was pretty rough, Cali random slow traffic, car would slow down with the slow traffic then decide to change lanes, only to stay slow as fuck (this is a P100D I'm in) then slowly accelerate up to speed. Then it blocks the lane going speed limit, and you know Cali, you need to be doing +25 in the left haha. The lane selection feels really random and made zero sense. The braking was abrupt as hell, but that's because it doesn't see far enough ahead I think? It's basically a useless gimmick to me, I can navigate the lanes 100x better and I don't even know the roads well down there. It feels like NOA, FSD, all this stuff is just layers on top of the base TACC, LKA, LCA tech, which isn't robust enough yet to support it.



Haha damn I was hoping phantom braking was sorted by now. Forum people are saying its actually worse since sonar was dropped in the 2022 refresh. I did see other complaints about lane selection too. My 2018 F150 does the abrupt braking with its basic adaptive cruise, so thats shitty if Tesla sucks at it too.

----------


## hurrdurr

> I am comfortable with my cognitive dissonance. lol.
> 
> I know what a Tesla is and isn't. There a many out there that don't.
> 
> I like the cars and how easy they make my life. Never have to go to a grubby gas station. No trips to the dealer for oil changes.
> 
> The funny thing about many Tesla owners is that they don't believe they are beta testers.



I'm in total agreeance with this.

In any of the Tesla groups I am in I would say 95% of the people are total lemmings praying for the opportunity to supple at Elon's sweet sweet nectar.

I like my Tesla, it's fine. It does feel very much like a Beta though. Too many gremlins to ignore including (in my experience) a very rough AP system. I very seldom use AP because of how abrupt the phantom breaking is. 

I'm also very annoyed with how poor the efficient range. (2021 Model 3 Performance, 100% charge, Calgary-Edmonton recommends 10 minute charge in Red Deer and arrival with 30% battery. On paper I should be able to arrive 30-40% range without stopping but I guess the EPA estimates are for 90KM/H on a closed highway in Sunny California lol)

----------


## mo_money2supe

> I'm in total agreeance with this.
> 
> In any of the Tesla groups I am in I would say 95% of the people are total lemmings praying for the opportunity to supple at Elon's sweet sweet nectar.
> 
> I like my Tesla, it's fine. It does feel very much like a Beta though. Too many gremlins to ignore including (in my experience) a very rough AP system. I very seldom use AP because of how abrupt the phantom breaking is. 
> 
> I'm also very annoyed with how poor the efficient range. (2021 Model 3 Performance, 100% charge, Calgary-Edmonton recommends 10 minute charge in Red Deer and arrival with 30% battery. On paper I should be able to arrive 30-40% range without stopping but I guess the EPA estimates are for 90KM/H on a closed highway in Sunny California lol)



Likewise, fully agree with benyl's comments. In my 4 years of ownership, the only thing I've had for "maintenance" were windshield fluid and tires (joys of lowered and stretched tires). We'll ignore any modding costs, haha! Cost to operate is significantly lower than ICE even factoring in the higher upfront costs of the car. Sadly, there are many issues that I've just learned to live with over time (eg. road noise, phantom braking, squeaks and rattles, fogging windows, the list goes on...).

As for the range thing, yeah, I learned after the first two weeks how its actual mileage is nowhere close to rated. Especially so on a Performance. I was nearly stranded in Chestermere after going on a 300km return trip (this was before the days of all the superchargers in Alberta) until a fellow Tesla-owner invited me over to his house to top-up (at 11pm!). You'll notice a sizeable improvement as the weather warms up though, but even coasting downhill, I have no idea how anyone can get rated range.

----------


## benyl

Prices up again across the board. 

Basically have been driving my car for free if I sell today. Haha.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

I finally got driven around in one of these recently. It was a 3 Performance or Plaid or Dual Motor or whatever they are calling the fancy fast one this week.
It's pretty amazing in many ways. We tried the Auto Pilot a bit and did a few huge pulls. The acceleration "feels" extremely uniform and nothing like anything else I've ever been in. I guess that's "butt dyno" talk but anything else I've been in, I find that the acceleration ramps up significantly and I really really like that feeling. The Tesla did not feel like that, at all. 

The cabin noise... This is a massively unfair comparison as this car has RE71-R's on it in as large a size as will stuff in there with aftermarket wheels and likely adjusted toe and camber, etc.
But Holy Allah - it sounded like a completely uninsulated tin can. As loud inside as my 83 Diesel Rabbit was! 
So while I'm sure it's far better with stock tires, I can still tell it's far noisier than most modern cars.

The beckon feature failed and aborted twice, so I'm not sure what its deal was. The storage space looks amazing. The user interface looks like Apple, to me. Or maybe it controls that because the driver was connected via iPhone and if an Android user was driving, it would customize.

Anyway, it was pretty impressive in some respects. I'm not in the market, but I'd give it serious consideration if I was.

----------


## JustinL

> Prices up again across the board. 
> 
> Basically have been driving my car for free if I sell today. Haha.



That's what I did. 10% annual rate of return over my 18 months of ownership. I'm driving my trusty old Touareg now until the market settles down. My next commuter will be electric for sure thanks to my Tesla experience, but probably from a different manufacturer.

----------


## googe



----------


## killramos

Wont that dump your food on the first corner?

----------


## googe

What the fuck Tesla

Today was pick-up day. Guess who doesnt have a car. Broken already.

----------


## killramos

Play stupid games

----------


## hurrdurr

@googe
 what happened?

----------


## googe

> @googe
>  what happened?



I showed up and "took delivery" and before I physically got to the car, a "tech" came in and said it needs a firmware update, and they've been trying but it wont take it. He muttered something about ordering in a new bluetooth module.

I'm skeptical that bluetooth would have anything to do with OTA updates, so I think either they don't know what's wrong and he's guessing, or since it was a Saturday, the real service crew was out and these folks just knew how to do basic delivery and he was just making shit up. 

Short version is they don't know what's wrong and don't have an ETA. I'm hoping someone just has to reboot something or clear a failed download or something simple.

----------


## hurrdurr

> I showed up and "took delivery" and before I physically got to the car, a "tech" came in and said it needs a firmware update, and they've been trying but it wont take it. He muttered something about ordering in a new bluetooth module.
> 
> I'm skeptical that bluetooth would have anything to do with OTA updates, so I think either they don't know what's wrong and he's guessing, or since it was a Saturday, the real service crew was out and these folks just knew how to do basic delivery and he was just making shit up. 
> 
> Short version is they don't know what's wrong and don't have an ETA. I'm hoping someone just has to reboot something or clear a failed download or something simple.



Oof - At least they broke you in for what's to come early lol

----------


## ExtraSlow

Sucks that they tricked you into "taking delivery" of a vehicle that you can't drive. Suspect other dealers would do similar though.

----------


## killramos

No kidding… did you hand over payment?

I had a dealer think handing over payment for a car that wouldn’t start was on the table once. That was funny lol.

It was the last day of the month/Quarter too and they were fuming.

----------


## Buster

> I showed up and "took delivery" and before I physically got to the car, a "tech" came in and said it needs a firmware update, and they've been trying but it wont take it. He muttered something about ordering in a new bluetooth module.
> 
> I'm skeptical that bluetooth would have anything to do with OTA updates, so I think either they don't know what's wrong and he's guessing, or since it was a Saturday, the real service crew was out and these folks just knew how to do basic delivery and he was just making shit up. 
> 
> Short version is they don't know what's wrong and don't have an ETA. I'm hoping someone just has to reboot something or clear a failed download or something simple.



they needed headlight fluid.

----------


## googe

Yeah, I told them to “undeliver” it since I hadn’t touched it and just acknowledged it in the app. Looks like they actually did, it just disappeared from my account, says new delivery date is May 21. Pretty sure they already have the money though, it was a bank transfer and I’m assuming it cleared first.

----------


## googe

> After another tech had his eyes on it, we found that a module was unplugged and no parts ended up being needed. Your car is all set to deliver tomorrow. Thank you for your patience. -Tesla Delivery



what.

----------


## hurrdurr

> what.



cover up op

----------


## killramos

“We couldn’t figure out what’s wrong with it, so here you go”

----------


## heavyD

I can't believe I'm taking delivery of one of these cars in the next few weeks. Ha ha ha.

----------


## googe

Holy fucking shit this car is amazing haha

No review on fsd/ap yet, still figuring it out. 

It does feel like a beta in some places, but if your expectations are realistic and youre used to bleeding edge tech that isnt perfect, it seems pretty good

1050 HP is ridiculous

----------


## taemo

Question from a Tesla noob, I decided to book a Tesla 3 for a couple of day trips to Rimbey/Red Deer area in September, was wondering if Tesla 3 will have enough charge for me to make it back and forth to Calgary?
I'm expecting to do around 400-500KM per day or will I have to stop by and charge in Red Deer and where can I go?
Might be at a coupe of field sites for 2-3 hours, can I just plug the Tesla to a regular 120V plug?

----------


## ExtraSlow

Very interesting choice of vehicle for that trip. Interested in owners opinions.

----------


## killramos

Just know it takes approximately forever to charge a Tesla at 120. Dont expect to add much range per hour of charge at 120V.

Tesla quotes 4km of recharge for each hour plugged in with a simple outlet.

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/support/charging

Sounds like a bad idea, especially for use at remote sites for 400+km. I recommend renting literally anything else.

----------


## ExtraSlow

A 120v outlet is likely to be enough for the car not to lose any charge while sitting. But yes don't count on it actually adding range unless you park overnight.

----------


## mo_money2supe

Just top up at either of the two Superchargers in Red Deer when needed. I'm sure you can work something out with whoever you're renting from to reimburse the supercharging costs. No need to even worry about 120V charging.

----------


## The_Penguin

Cool drone footage of a Tesla plant in Germany

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-4yOx1CnXE

----------


## vengie

Elon = GOAT

----------


## Buster

Fortnine is awesome. Teslas are pieces of shit.

----------


## killramos

lol

----------


## rage2

> Fortnine is awesome. Teslas are pieces of shit.



Don’t you ride motorcycles? Dibs on the house.

----------


## Buster

> Don’t you ride motorcycles? Dibs on the house.



The house comes with some.... accessories.

----------


## rage2

> The house comes with some.... accessories.



I can handle potatoes and cabbages.

----------


## heavyD

> Fortnine is awesome. Teslas are pieces of shit.



I think the removal of radar has pretty well sunk FSD. It's clear that camera only will never attain level 3 autonomy. It's why Tesla has been spinning its wheels for the last few years or so while other automakers have progressed towards level 3. It's a massive mistake because they have millions of vehicles out there without radar now and to have to retrofit would be impossible yet it's probably what they have to do to ever advance FSD. It's only a matter of time until things start to unravel for Tesla. It may take years but once legacy automakers have lots full of EV's that are much safer and higher quality Tesla's sales will erode and things will probably end fast for them.

----------


## Buster

> I think the removal of radar has pretty well sunk FSD. It's clear that camera only will never attain level 3 autonomy. It's why Tesla has been spinning its wheels for the last few years or so while other automakers have progressed towards level 3. It's a massive mistake because they have millions of vehicles out there without radar now and to have to retrofit would be impossible yet it's probably what they have to do to ever advance FSD. It's only a matter of time until things start to unravel for Tesla. It may take years but once legacy automakers have lots full of EV's that are much safer and higher quality Tesla's sales will erode and things will probably end fast for them.



the cult is going to come for you.

----------


## heavyD

> the cult is going to come for you.



I own one so they can’t touch me. Never been a brand fanboy so I tell it like it is for any car I own.

----------


## Buster

> I own one so they can’t touch me. Never been a brand fanboy so I tell it like it is for any car I own.



even worse...you're a traitor!

----------


## heavyD

> even worse...you're a traitor!



Traitor to whom? I'm all about what's best for me at the end of the day. I didn't get a Model 3P to save the planet or because I like Elon (I dislike him). I got it because it's cheap to operate as I had 240V in my garage and it's not exactly easy to buy a new EV and receive it in a decent timeline except from the one place that's still pumping them out.

----------


## supe

Look at any technology curve, lets just go ahead and use his fuzzy adjusted graph that shows AP is actually on par with not using it. This is a massive win for Tesla in that its systems will only improve with time. Every update, the system gets better, more performant then the last. My Tesla is hands down a better product today than the one I bought 4 years ago. 

The lidar argument is super weak too. He just equates it with a money issue but doesn't address Lidars technological short comings.

----------


## Buster

> Traitor to whom? I'm all about what's best for me at the end of the day. I didn't get a Model 3P to save the planet or because I like Elon (I dislike him). I got it because it's cheap to operate as I had 240V in my garage and it's not exactly easy to buy a new EV and receive it in a decent timeline except from the one place that's still pumping them out.



It was a joke. Lol

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

Almost spicey...
Le disappoint.

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

> Look at any technology curve, lets just go ahead and use his fuzzy adjusted graph that shows AP is actually on par with not using it. This is a massive win for Tesla in that its systems will only improve with time. Every update, the system gets better, more performant then the last. My Tesla is hands down a better product today than the one I bought 4 years ago. 
> 
> The lidar argument is super weak too. He just equates it with a money issue but doesn't address Lidars technological short comings.



Two dead bikers are a huge win for Tesla.

----------


## heavyD

> Two dead bikers are a huge win for Tesla.



Those bikers would likely still be alive today if Teslas came with the "shortcomings" of lidar or radar.

----------


## supe

> Those bikers would likely still be alive today if Teslas came with the "shortcomings" of lidar or radar.



https://www.euroncap.com/en/press-me...eals-the-show/




> In Euro NCAP track tests, the Model Y *camera-only Vision system* performs remarkably well in preventing collisions with other cars, cyclists and pedestrians.



Tesla's are literally the safest cars on the road.

But go ahead form your opinion based on random YouTube vids.

----------


## Buster

> Tesla's are literally the safest cars on the road.



they might be safe for the people IN the Tesla (sometimes).

It's the people outside of the Tesla that are getting Maximum Overdrived that are the issue.

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

> https://www.euroncap.com/en/press-me...eals-the-show/
> 
> 
> 
> Tesla's are literally the safest cars on the road.
> 
> But go ahead form your opinion based on random YouTube vids.



https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/27/2...tal-utah-nhtsa
https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/7/23...utopilot-nhtsa

I'm not worried about the passenger/driver in the Teslas. I'm worried about everyone around them.

But go ahead form your opinion based on random fanboyism.

----------


## supe

> https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/27/2...tal-utah-nhtsa
> https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/7/23...utopilot-nhtsa
> 
> I'm not worried about the passenger/driver in the Teslas. I'm worried about everyone around them.
> 
> But go ahead form your opinion based on random fanboyism.



Looks pretty safe for people outside the car to me. 

https://twitter.com/ev_australia/sta...SiuvEYodVU2jmg

Again from the same article




> near-perfect 98 percent in Safety Assist



Safety assist is about preventing accidents, these are accidents you will never hear about in the news. Emphasis on "near perfect". 

Use critical thinking and base judgement on statistics and data and not one off events.

----------


## heavyD

> https://www.euroncap.com/en/press-me...eals-the-show/
> 
> 
> 
> Tesla's are literally the safest cars on the road.
> 
> But go ahead form your opinion based on random YouTube vids.



Random youtube video? It appears it is you that is uninformed as Tesla is getting investigated by the NHTSA for the motorcyclist deaths.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/u-s-age...ists-1.6016734

----------


## killramos

Supe giving a lecture on critical thinking is hilarious.

----------


## heavyD

> Use critical thinking and base judgement on statistics and data and not one off events.



Maybe you should take your lips off Elons ass and do some critical thinking yourself.

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

> Use critical thinking and base judgement on statistics and data and not one off events.



I mean, I'm still waiting for you to start, but sure:
https://www.tesladeaths.com/

Is this enough data for you? Not just pro-tesla footage? Or did you lick the batteries a little too much in your Model 3?

Seems super safe.
https://www.ksbw.com/article/hollist...=snd-autopilot
https://www.wfla.com/news/man-in-whe...-pasco-county/
https://mycbs4.com/news/local/two-pe...nto-semi-truck

----------


## Buster

gettin' spicey!!!

----------


## supe

> I mean, I'm still waiting for you to start, but sure:
> https://www.tesladeaths.com/
> 
> Is this enough data for you? Not just pro-tesla footage? Or did you lick the batteries a little too much in your Model 3?
> 
> Seems super safe.
> https://www.ksbw.com/article/hollist...=snd-autopilot
> https://www.wfla.com/news/man-in-whe...-pasco-county/
> https://mycbs4.com/news/local/two-pe...nto-semi-truck



Your first link is clearly biased, if a driver used a Tesla to purposefully run someone over, they would count that, and that is Tesla's fault how?

Then again your other links are just case studies which all that it confirms is that Tesla's get into crashes where people die. Yes, Tesla's can get into crashes, yes those crashes can kill. 

The question is are Tesla's safe or safer than other car brands. I'm citing Europes car safety testing program backed by governments which resulted in the Tesla Model Y getting the best scores ever. This will directly translate into less crashes and less injuries. Do you deny this or is it hard to comprehend?

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Your first link is clearly biased, if a driver used a Tesla to purposefully run someone over, they would count that, and that is Tesla's fault how?
> 
> Then again your other links are just case studies which all that it confirms is that Tesla's get into crashes where people die. Yes, Tesla's can get into crashes, yes those crashes can kill. 
> 
> The question is are Tesla's safe or safer than other car brands. I'm citing Europes car safety testing program backed by governments which resulted in the Tesla Model Y getting the best scores ever. This will directly translate into less crashes and less injuries. Do you deny this or is it hard to comprehend?



Holy, hang on!
You think a drunk Tesla driver running down some hobo on a bike is going to count on the same stats as someone NOT DRIVING A TESLA ON AUTO PILOT that mistakenly plows a toddler in a crosswalk???!!?!?
That's adorable.

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

> Your first link is clearly biased, if a driver used a Tesla to purposefully run someone over, they would count that, and that is Tesla's fault how?
> 
> Then again your other links are just case studies which all that it confirms is that Tesla's get into crashes where people die. Yes, Tesla's can get into crashes, yes those crashes can kill. 
> 
> The question is are Tesla's safe or safer than other car brands. I'm citing Europes car safety testing program backed by governments which resulted in the Tesla Model Y getting the best scores ever. This will directly translate into less crashes and less injuries. Do you deny this or is it hard to comprehend?



You're changing the argument. I'm not debating the safety rating in a tesla vs other cars to the passengers of the car, I'm arguing that relying on "autopilot" without lidar is irresponsible, and gets people killed, like the 2 motorcycle riders that were run over on a straight highway at night.

----------


## SportEL

Toronto Man's Tesla Model S Battery died after 77K Miles, and he got locked out, and he couldn't access. Only Costs $26K for a new one.

-> https://www.techspot.com/news/96080-...tery-gets.html

----------


## rage2

> Toronto Man's Tesla Model S Battery died after 77K Miles, and he got locked out, and he couldn't access. Only Costs $26K for a new one.
> 
> -> https://www.techspot.com/news/96080-...tery-gets.html



This story has been making the rounds. Yes, the battery failure is most likely associated with the poor drainage design of early Model 3's. No Tesla didn't lock him out (directly), his 12V battery died because the HV battery died. 12V dead, you're "locked out". And yes, it does cost that much for a refurb HV battery.

Just to clarify some of the BS coming from the articles.

----------


## Yolobimmer

> This story has been making the rounds. Yes, the battery failure is most likely associated with the poor drainage design of early Model 3's. No Tesla didn't lock him out (directly), his 12V battery died because the HV battery died. 12V dead, you're "locked out". And yes, it does cost that much for a refurb HV battery.
> 
> Just to clarify some of the BS coming from the articles.



Why didn't get just call AMA?

Oh wait. Attention whoreeeeeee

----------


## killramos

This seems like a great idea…

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tes...oon-model-s-x/

Your $$$ Tesla will no longer have parking sensors. But don’t worry Elon says.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Hardware is overrated

----------


## heavyD

> This seems like a great idea
> 
> https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tes...oon-model-s-x/
> 
> Your $$$ Tesla will no longer have parking sensors. But dont worry Elon says.



Its really looking to me that Elon knows fully well Tesla is here for a good time, not a long time and all these moves are simply cost cutting to increase profit margins while making the vehicles worse for it. The 100% camera based system has no chance of ever outperforming proper systems that use both video and sensors. Its the only vehicle with adaptive cruise control I have owned that phantom brakes and I had a Subaru with their old eyesight and it never even did that.

----------


## killramos

Sticking exclusively to the visible spectrum does seem awfully myopic

----------


## BerserkerCatSplat

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tes...s-last-summer/

In mid-2022, Model Y Performance rear calipers were quietly changed from being upgraded Brembo units to being the same as the normal Model Y LR calipers, plus a bolt-on caliper cover to make them look bigger. So now the entire Performance brake package is exactly the same as the LR, just painted red.

----------


## killramos

“The brakes aren’t even needed”

/musk

----------


## ExtraSlow

Customers or media who would like more information on the one-pedal driving feature can contact our public relations hotline.

----------


## benyl

haha, cost savings to pay for twitter.

----------


## Buster

and I was so close to buying one of these garbage dumps.

----------


## benyl

All manufacturers do this. It's funny how much people pay attention when Tesla does this.

----------


## Buster

I'll call them garbage dumps too. Doesn't change the facts on the ground.

----------


## Inzane

> No Tesla didn't lock him out (directly), his 12V battery died because the HV battery died. 12V dead, you're "locked out".



There was a video James May had on Youtube a couple years back where he had a similar problem with his Model S. Although in his case I don't believe it was because of HV battery failure. Seemed like a real PITA to deal with.

----------


## richardchan2002

Looks like Tesla has now moved discounts into Canada. Up to 21% off. 

This not only puts pressure on EV competitors but will also have a significant impact on used Tesla prices. 

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tes...as-much-as-21/

----------


## ExtraSlow

I strongly support lower priced EV's.

----------


## Buster

i strongly do not support fucking gov't incentives for cars.

fuck sake.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Oh wow I didn't read that they just dropped the price barely enough to qualify for the incentive. Probably smart, but yeah I don't think gov't needs to be in the business of subsidizing vehicle purchases.

----------


## benyl

Bottom has fallen out of the market. 

G-Wagons will be $100K soon instead of $300K and 911s should be in the $50K range. lol I've got my cash ready.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> i strongly do not support fucking gov't incentives for cars.
> 
> fuck sake.



Government make for many efficiencies in much life, Comrade! Take example for Dept of Redundancy Commission always make for reduce much costings.
- kErT

----------


## Buster

> Government make for many efficiencies in much life, Comrade! Take example for Dept of Redundancy Commission always make for reduce much costings.
> - kErT



kert is a fucking CCP plant, I swear.

----------


## Xtrema

> Looks like Tesla has now moved discounts into Canada. Up to 21% off. 
> 
> This not only puts pressure on EV competitors but will also have a significant impact on used Tesla prices. 
> 
> https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tes...as-much-as-21/



Guy who paid $85K last month for Model Y LR because of year end $5K discount.


Also RIP for greasy used car dealers

----------


## JustinL

It looks like deliveries are almost immediate and the prices are actually reasonable again. Hopefully this bodes well for EV car prices overall. I don't really have an interest in getting back into a Tesla, but I am glad for the experience I had with it. By far the most tempting thing with Tesla is the smooth experience through the ordering process. I tried to price out an i4, but the BMW website and dealer websites are garbage.

----------


## benyl

That dealer probably paid more on trade than what they are new now. lol

----------


## HiSpec

Is the price drop partially due to rear caliper downgrade?  :ROFL!: 

https://insideevs.com/news/630576/te...aliper-covers/

----------


## bjstare

> Bottom has fallen out of the market. 
> 
> G-Wagons will be $100K soon instead of $300K and 911s should be in the $50K range. lol I've got my cash ready.



Exactly. That's why I'm driving a Fiesta right now instead of something less gay.

----------


## Buster

Is the bottom actually dropping it off the market? I don't keep track any more

----------


## killramos

> Is the bottom actually dropping it off the market? I don't keep track any more



Older G’s have stopped transacting on BAT, which were previously going for silly money. So I think that’s a sign.

Heck kulu has a few in inventory that have been sitting for a while even locally.

911’s still seem irrational to me.

----------


## benyl

> Older G’s have stopped transacting on BAT, which were previously going for silly money. So I think that’s a sign.
> 
> Heck kulu has a few in inventory that have been sitting for a while even locally.
> 
> 911’s still seem irrational to me.



Both those Plaid Tesla's Kulu has in stock are suddenly WAY overpriced.

If you take out the Vapourware FSD, you can get a new plaid for $172K + GST including the Lux tax.

----------


## killramos

It’s not like it’s difficult to buy a Tesla, I think Buster has made that point repeatedly.

----------


## Xtrema

> Is the price drop partially due to rear caliper downgrade? 
> 
> https://insideevs.com/news/630576/te...aliper-covers/



It's basically to drop below $55K price cap to qualify for $7500 rebate in US.

Thanks Biden?

----------


## Xtrema

> That dealer probably paid more on trade than what they are new now. lol



lol at Automaxx

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/tesla/mo...0819183247120/

----------


## benyl

> It's basically to drop below $55K price cap to qualify for $7500 rebate in US.
> 
> Thanks Biden?



Nope. Demand has fallen. You can now walk into a Tesla Service center and there are vehicles to buy on the lot. 

Used to be a 9-12 month wait. Now there are a dozen in stock in Calgary. 

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/inventor...P0J5&range=200

----------


## richardchan2002

Time will tell but Tesla may have made the wrong call. Rather than refreshing their aging fleet, they put their focus into scaling production of existing vehicles. 

These price cuts were inevitable as it’s not reasonable for demand to stay high with dated models. Model S came out in 2012, Model X in 2016 and Model 3 in 2017. 

One thing to consider is that these price cuts pretty much bring prices of Model Y back to their original price before all of the price hikes. Tesla is still making money on the cars as their profit margins are high. I recall reading somewhere that their profit margin per vehicle was something like 17% which is an order of magnitude higher than Ford.

----------


## ExtraSlow

You think Ford's profit margin is 1.7%?

----------


## richardchan2002

Every article seems to quote a different profit margin. This was from a WSJ article that I read earlier today. I’ve also seen articles over the past year that quote high single digit % margins. Regardless, Tesla’s margin seems to be better than the OG OEMs.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-s...le-11673623093

----------

