# Lounge > Home and Garden >  Enmax EasyMax - Fixed Vs. Variable

## HR-ZD403

Just wondering whoever is on the EasyMax program if you're on a fixed or variable rate?

Currently the rates are as follows:

*Electricity: Fixed: 7.79 ¢ per KWH or Variable: 3.587 ¢ per KWH

Natural Gas: Fixed: $5.99 per GJ or Variable: $3.801 per GJ*

From some older threads I've noticed for the most part fixed electricity and variable natural gas.
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Also was wondering for anyone that has a programmable thermostat when you're away from the home, what's the lowest temperature you have programmed in?

Thanks!

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## Mitsu3000gt

My nat gas is in my condo fees but I'd be going Variable on Nat Gas (I trade it as part of my job) and fixed for power.

Enmax told me the EasyMax rate was 8.XX cents when they called me 2 days ago...I didn't know you could get Fixed in the 7's.

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## HR-ZD403

> _Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt_ 
> *My nat gas is in my condo fees but I'd be going Variable on Nat Gas (I trade it as part of my job) and fixed for power.
> 
> Enmax told me the EasyMax rate was 8.XX cents when they called me 2 days ago...I didn't know you could get Fixed in the 7's.*



Wow that's interesting how they told you a different rate, the rate I mentioned was directly from the website.

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## Cos

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## pheoxs

Mines fixed @6.9 cents/kWh and floating for gas

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## Mitsu3000gt

> _Originally posted by Cos_ 
> *It just dropped on Thursday. I locked in for another 5 years. With the amount of stuff we are connecting to the grid, I am not sure where we are going to get all this generation from. I've probably approved close to 50MW of load last week alone. Only way is for the price to go up and import more.
> 
> https://www.enmax.com/home/electrici...al-gas/easymax
> 
> There are so many speculative natgas plays that I think it will be a LONG time before natgas goes up to where it was when RalphBucks came out.*



Good to know, it must have been the Wednesday they called me. Maybe I should call them back and get on that 7.79!

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## Cos

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## benyl

Mine is fixed at 8 cent until sometime in 2016.

If I lock in again today, I lose the $100 credit I am currently getting. The new rate only saves me $1.50 / month. Not worth changing.

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## kenny

Change it so it applies the easymax credit to your bill each month. Then you can play the speculative game of floating electricity in winter, fixed in summer and floating gas all day err day. 

Floating electricity is at 3.8cents I think.

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## benyl

the easymax credit is gone.

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## Cos

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## kenny

Yeah don't think they offer EasyMax Rewards to new customers but you'll still have it even if you switch from fixed to floating and vice versa. Mine was on annual redemption and it was just applied to last bill. I flipped over to floating electricity from the summer rate of $0.089. 

Wonder when I should jump back on fixed with this new insight from Cos :P

Going to heat the house with oven this month haha  :ROFL!:

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## Cos

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## HR-ZD403

So it looks like Fixed Electricity and Variable Natural Gas are the best way to go with Enmax using the EasyMax program.

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## ExtraSlow

That's the popular combination.

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## quick_scar

I float both. Just try to keep the power usage down in the summer when prices are high.

**EDIT** I am also one of their old grandfathered customers so rates are already cheaper for me. If you have been a customer since before a certain date you get a different rate then newer customers so floating makes sense to me.

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## lilmira

WTH, tried to switch to 5yr fixed and it's showing 8.9c/kWh after you logged in. Oh well, it's only a few bucks difference. The fixed rate for gas is correct at 5.99/GJ as posted.

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## DENZILDON

7.79 if you are signing up now but no more rewards.

If you are on the old rate of 8 cents and it expires. The fixed rate is 8.9 but you get to keep the $100 rewards forever until you close the account.

It really depends if you use a lot of elec. If you use tons then it might be better to switch sign to the new Easymax. But be wary as the gas floating transaction fee also changes on the new Easymax.

I'm keeping my old easymax even if my fixed rate is now 8.9. It turned out to be cheaper still.

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## quick_scar

> _Originally posted by lilmira_ 
> *WTH, tried to switch to 5yr fixed and it's showing 8.9c/kWh after you logged in. Oh well, it's only a few bucks difference. The fixed rate for gas is correct at 5.99/GJ as posted.*



I just called enmax. Here is why:

We are on an old plan. The old plans that include the $100/year easymax credits are only offering an 8.9/KWH fixed rate. If you want the 7.79c rate you have to give up the $100/year credit. When switching to the new plan the delivery cost for gas also goes from 47c to 99c per GJ.

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## benyl

so wait, even when you rate expires, you can keep the $100?

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## lilmira

Got it! I'll take the 100 bux credit. I don't think I use enough electricity to offset that.

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## DENZILDON

> _Originally posted by benyl_ 
> *so wait, even when you rate expires, you can keep the $100?*



The old easymax 8.0 cents is like a never ending agreement. If your 8 cents expires it automatically switched to floating and it's your decision to call in to put it back to a fixed rate which is 8.9 for this old Easymax.
The rewards per year continues until pretty much you cancel the contract or you don't pay the bill and Enmax cancels the contract.

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## Euro838

They are also offering the "Choose Free" option now where you are locked into them for 5 years but you get the entire first year of electricity free. For the 5 years, you can switch between fixed and floating with the 30 days notice.

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## variable_x

> _Originally posted by Euro838_ 
> *They are also offering the &quot;Choose Free&quot; option now where you are locked into them for 5 years but you get the entire first year of electricity free. For the 5 years, you can switch between fixed and floating with the 30 days notice.*



I assume that's only for new customers?

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## Cos

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## killramos

> _Originally posted by variable_x_ 
> * 
> 
> I assume that's only for new customers?*



No the called me to offer it today. Have to sign up before 25th. 

Up to a maximum of 750 dollars for the year. Obviously only covers usage as well. 

Basically they are giving you a year of usage for free to lock in at 7.79

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## Tik-Tok

Really? Hmm, I'm currently still locked at 7.99 from a few years ago, but my wife is now home for maternity leave, and will probably be using more electricity than ever. Maybe I should call them.

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## spike98

> _Originally posted by killramos_ 
> * 
> 
> No the called me to offer it today. Have to sign up before 25th. 
> 
> Up to a maximum of 750 dollars for the year. Obviously only covers usage as well. 
> 
> Basically they are giving you a year of usage for free to lock in at 7.79*



This is true but you are also locked in an agreement for 5 years and will have to pay ~$100 per service (gas/elec) if you cancel....or even move.

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## codetrap

> _Originally posted by killramos_ 
> * No the called me to offer it today. Have to sign up before 25th. 
> 
> Up to a maximum of 750 dollars for the year. Obviously only covers usage as well. 
> 
> Basically they are giving you a year of usage for free to lock in at 7.79*






> _Originally posted by Tik-Tok_ 
> *Really? Hmm, I'm currently still locked at 7.99 from a few years ago, but my wife is now home for maternity leave, and will probably be using more electricity than ever. Maybe I should call them.*



 I called and talked to Enmax about this. I would lose my $100/month easymax reward, and some fees would double, not sure which one, but she said that would be worth an easy $100 over the term.. So, over the 5 years, I'd be down $600ish due to my current Easymax deal. So, the total money I'd save would be possibly $150 over 5 years, with penalties if I want to get out.

Now, that's like $20/year savings, but if electricity takes a dive and goes to 5c/kWh and I want to change my easymax rate.. I won't be able to. She also told me that because I'm an easymax customer with a rebate, I'd be able to simply renew that same deal ongoing next time in 2017 as well.

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## Masked Bandit

Here's what I want to know, Enmax obviously has more data to analyze than any one individual could ever compile and I'm sure they go through closely to design these fixed programs. Over the long haul, if Enmax was going to make LESS money by offering a fixed price on anything, do you think they would really do it? No. I run variable on both power & gas and I have to believe that over my lifetime that will be the cheapest option. Or am I missing something here?

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## codetrap

Masked, I've been considering switching to variable as well, as we average around 780kWh/month this year. I pay 8c/kWh, but I'm not subject to the market variations. Last year, in southern alberta, the average price over the year was 7.74c/kWh. $692.64 worth of power at my usage, vs $748.8 at my locked in rate. So, an average diff a month of $4.68 for 2014. In 2013, I was ahead of the game every single month. In 2013, the average was 8.6c/kWh.. so I was ahead of the game the entire year.

http://www.ucahelps.alberta.ca/historic-rates-2014.aspx
http://www.ucahelps.alberta.ca/historic-rates-2013.aspx

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## Yuubah

Enmax floating electricity has been much lower in 2014 than 8c except for 2 months.

https://www.enmax.com/ForYourHomeSit...ity-After.aspx

not sure what the difference is between enmax's rates and ucahelps

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## spike98

> _Originally posted by codetrap_ 
> *Masked, I've been considering switching to variable as well, as we average around 780kWh/month this year. I pay 8c/kWh, but I'm not subject to the market variations. Last year, in southern alberta, the average price over the year was 7.74c/kWh. $692.64 worth of power at my usage, vs $748.8 at my locked in rate. So, an average diff a month of $4.68 for 2014. In 2013, I was ahead of the game every single month. In 2013, the average was 8.6c/kWh.. so I was ahead of the game the entire year.
> 
> http://www.ucahelps.alberta.ca/historic-rates-2014.aspx
> http://www.ucahelps.alberta.ca/historic-rates-2013.aspx*



I feel that this doesn't paint an accurate picture as these numbers don't include taxes, delivery charges, and transaction fees.

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## codetrap

spike98, I didn't include those because they're either fairly static charges, or are the same incremental cost whether it's 2c or 10c. My understanding of the "rider" charges is they're a fixed ratio on a per kWh, not a proportional one. In short, they're the same regardless of the market price per kWh, solely based on how many kWh's I use.

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## spike98

> _Originally posted by codetrap_ 
> *spike98, I didn't include those because they're either fairly static charges, or are the same incremental cost whether it's 2c or 10c. My understanding of the &quot;rider&quot; charges is they're a fixed ratio on a per kWh, not a proportional one. In short, they're the same regardless of the market price per kWh, solely based on how many kWh's I use.*



I think the charges are different. If you read the fine print for Fixed:

_Advertised rate does not include an administration fee of an average of $7.10 per site, per month, regulated charges depending on usage and service area, or taxes._ 

and then Variable:

_Advertised rate does not include an administration fee of an average of $7.10 per site, per month, regulated charges depending on usage and service area, taxes,and transaction fees of $0.01 per kWh for floating electricity rate._

So now your average price of variable is now +$0.01 per kWh. So average variable for 2014 would have been $0.0725 per kWh and only margainlly better than the fixed $0.0779 per kWh.

For 2013 your average rate would have been $0.1099 per kWh.

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## codetrap

spiker98, I didn't do a good job of explaining what I meant. I didn't include all the other fee's because like you say, it's going to be a per kWh charge no matter what. So, in my instance, I'm paying $0.08/kWh in Electricity, and a combined $0.0686/kWh in charges which would be the same if I were at a $0.078/kWh..

Right now, on my Bill I have 861kWh @0.08/kWh $68.88
Admin Charge $6.54 - flat fee on a per day basis
Deliver Charge $19.02 - Usage Based $0.02/kWh
Transmission Charge $16.76 - Usage Based $0.019/kWh
Balancing Pool Allocation -$4.86 - Usage Based $$0.0056/kWh
Rate Riders $9.73 - Usage Based $0.011/kWh
Local Access Fee $11.32 - Usage Based 0.013/kWh

This isn't totally accurate of course.. but I think that helps explain it. The part about if I switched, they would increase my admin (electricity) & transaction (gas) fees as those were part of my current easymax plan.

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## Cos

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## Mibz

Enmax offering 5.99c electricity for 3 years right now. But gas goes up from Floating + 47c to Floating + 99c.

So in January I'd save about $15, May would be $16.

Not so fine print:



> Some differences you'll notice with this new plan
> 
> We've discontinued EasyMax Rewards® Dollars.
> 
> The administration fee on your current plan is based on what your wires service provider charges; now it will be an average of $7.10 per each electricity and natural gas site per month which we may change from time to time.
> 
> Your current floating electricity plan does not have a term. Now the Floating Electricity plan has a term.
> 
> When the term of your plan expires (if applicable), we may automatically continue you on the longest term fixed rate plan then available.
> ...



 So I save about $15 a month for 3 years and then they fuck me? Is that how this plays out?

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## ercchry

mine was already floating+$0.99/GJ  :Cry:  

i did switch my fixed electric to the new $0.0599 plan though, who the hell knows what the rate will be in 3 years, but you can switch back and forth monthly if you really want to between fixed and floating  :dunno:

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## kenny

Nice, I'm still riding out the floating electricity haha, a bill I have from couple months ago shows I used 802kWh @ $0.023 = $18.57. I've been waiting to jump back onto fixed, but prices keep trending lower so I guess I'll stay put. 

I don't think Enmax sees this trend reversing either which is probably why they're now offering this new lower fixed rate to entice some people over. 

Only problem with floating is that all it takes is 1 crazy month (heatwave + unscheduled plant shutdowns) where the price spikes to wipe out all the savings  :ROFL!:

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## codetrap

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## Mibz

Maybe I should YOLO this shit

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## HiTempguy1

> _Originally posted by Mibz_ 
> *Maybe I should YOLO this shit*



I was gonna say, a lot of beyond ballerz in this thread crunching some serious numbers to save $100 a year  :ROFL!:

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## Cos

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## cloud7

The current regulated rate is 8.2162¢per kWh... so it is better to be on the fixed rate of 5.99¢/kWh this month.

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## pheoxs

> _Originally posted by cloud7_ 
> *The current regulated rate is 8.2162¢per kWh... so it is better to be on the fixed rate of 5.99¢/kWh this month.*



Where do you see a fixed 5.99 rate?

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## spikerS

*bump*

Just got off the phone with EnMax because of my move, and switched over the power.

I went from the $0.085 KWH rate to a $0.067 KWH rate, and my natural gas stayed floating +$0.99

I was wondering, is there a better company, or rate out there to go with?

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## msommers

I decided on fix electricity and floating gas

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## ZenOps

Enmax offered me the 5.99 cent per kwh with $4.99 per GJ natgas.

Didn't take it. I still prefer my 8 cent per kwh with floating + 47 cent per GJ natgas rate because it still has the $8.40 cashback each month.

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## codetrap

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## nzwasp

Enmax offered me the 5.99 fixed electricity and then i can either do the 4.99 gas or floating gas. I for sure would do floating gas since gas is so cheap. However like zen said they take away the cashback, and at the end of the 3 year term they can put you on whatever the current fixed rate is automatically.

Im not sure what to do.

What does beyond think?

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## killramos

Do it. 5.99 is dirt cheap

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## KappaSigma

> _Originally posted by nzwasp_ 
> *Enmax offered me the 5.99 fixed electricity and then i can either do the 4.99 gas or floating gas. I for sure would do floating gas since gas is so cheap. However like zen said they take away the cashback, and at the end of the 3 year term they can put you on whatever the current fixed rate is automatically.
> 
> Im not sure what to do.
> 
> What does beyond think?*



Look at your monthly consumption avg x difference in rate less credit you normally receive. In my case, the credit was always higher then the difference in price spread.

Im sure Enmax has this all figured out. Its not going to be a deal for end users most of the time.

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## bigbadboss101

I am on Enmax, flex rate for both. My colleague is thinking of going to DE. Fixed rate, 1/2 the admin fees and free smart thermostat.

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## EK69

did u guys call enmax to get the 5.99 electricity rate?
im seeing 6.79 or 6.99 on their website

and 4.99 locked in for gas

not sure which way to go, need to get a new gas/electricity plan for a new house in airdrie  :Bang Head:

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## nzwasp

The 5.99 was offered to me as a loyalty plan since i'd been on easymax since 2009.

They emailed me about it.

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## Yuubah

if you get the 5.99 plan, i thought you lose the $100 easymax credit every year?

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## nzwasp

Yeah you do thats one thing I need to weigh up, however my easy max credit does not come to $100 a year - its more like $7 a month

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## Kavy

> _Originally posted by bigbadboss101_ 
> *I am on Enmax, flex rate for both. My colleague is thinking of going to DE. Fixed rate, 1/2 the admin fees and free smart thermostat.*



My understanding is to get the nest thermostat you need to sign up with their "flex-through" service on gas and that the rate is $2 above the current market value. That would kill the savings come winter I would think.

On the enmax offer I am in the same boat. Currently on fixed 8 cents so it would seem like a no brainer to take the 6 cent offer but I feel like I'm missing something on the gas rate as I'm at 2.77 and I don't want to budge off the floating rate. What am I missing on this enmax deal?

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## killramos

DE Guys were going door to door this Monday.

I was in a pretty bad mood and the wife dragged me from the middle of a game with some friends to "answer the door".

I opened it, looked at his hat, and said " Direct Energy? No we aren't interested", shut and lock door.

Then i told the wife if she doesnt want to deal with something don't answer the fucking door. :Whipped:

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## Cos

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## dj_rice

I'm currently on the 8.9 Fixed Elec and Floating Gas +99. My renewal date is July 2018. 

They offered me 6.79 Fixed Electricity and 4.99 Fixed Gas or same as original Floating +99


My EasyMax rewards are about $110/year. 


I looked up my usage and it hovers around 260-270kwh which is about $4-5 savings a month if I switch.

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## ZenOps

If you can get less than 6 cents per kwh, an all electric car like the Nissan Leaf has to start to look pretty appealing, even assuming you have to pre-warm the seats for a solid half hour in the winter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf

Depending on commuting distance, you could be looking at as little as $2 per day in electricity if you trickle charge at home at night.

The cost of the battery (nickel or lithium) which is arguably about half the price of an electric car, has dropped from about $18,000 to $6,000 in the last five years or so, but I don't think its going to get much cheaper in the next five (it might actually start going up in price soon) IE: Five years ago, a nickel battery electric car probably would not have been a good idea from a cost standpoint.

Its probably totally politically incorrect to be talking electric car in oil Alberta, but its also coal Alberta - which means cheap electricity.

BTW: If even one out of a thousand commuters converts to electric, there will be tremendous strain on nickel and lithium production to produce the minimum 300 pound battery needed. Realistically, there is only an "excess" of five pounds nickel per person, even in Canada (as anyone who has bought Nimh AA batteries can attest to, in usable form - it commands a very high price)

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## FraserB

Bumping this. 

Is fixed electric and floating gas still the best bet?

Looks like 6.79 for 3 years electric and 4.99+0.99 for gas

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## Xtrema

> _Originally posted by FraserB_ 
> *Bumping this. 
> 
> Is fixed electric and floating gas still the best bet?
> 
> Looks like 6.79 for 3 years electric and 4.99+0.99 for gas*



I fixed electricity and floated gas.

I'm paying $2.99 for gas last month, no way gas will go $6 any time soon.

I also notice there are 2 different prices for electricity. I had 5.99 for one account and 6.79 for the other account.

Electric car does start to make sense for a daily driver. It worked out to be $1/day vs $7.2/day right now.

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## Cos

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## Mitsu3000gt

I have to closely monitor both as part of my job and I would go fixed power and floating gas. I think that's what most people end up doing anyway.

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## Tik-Tok

> _Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt_ 
> *I have to closely monitor both as part of my job and I would go fixed power and floating gas. I think that's what most people end up doing anyway.*



Yeah, ridiculous to go otherwise. I've been on fixed elec, floating gas for years, and once in awhile I do the math to see if it's still worth it, and it always has been.

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## ZenOps

At 6 cents per kwh things like heating definitely still favour natgas.

6 cents per kwh = $16.666 per GJ.

But its a lot closer compared to gasoline, although it still favours gasoline.

To truly entice people to electric cars would be 5 cents or less, which would be tough to achieve on a long term basis.

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## ricosuave

> _Originally posted by Tik-Tok_ 
> * 
> 
> Yeah, ridiculous to go otherwise. I've been on fixed elec, floating gas for years, and once in awhile I do the math to see if it's still worth it, and it always has been.*



This. It's amazing how many people don't look at the historical data.

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## yellowsnow

I'm on floating electricity and gas right now. electricity has been hovering between 3.8-8.2c/kwh this year. Currently sitting at about 5c/kwh.. saving myself a whopping $15/month haha!

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## mr2mike

My dream would be to have one of those massive, silent, NG generators. Run my house all off gas. But I think those gen sets are probably close to $100K. No payout.

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## Tik-Tok

> _Originally posted by mr2mike_ 
> *My dream would be to have one of those massive, silent, NG generators. Run my house all off gas. But I think those gen sets are probably close to $100K. No payout.*



Group buy?  :ROFL!:

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## ExtraSlow

I have seen some smaller natural gas turbine generators that are about the size of a refrigerator. Those things are amazing, and as you say, damn near silent. Would be a decent option for a rural property where the chance of a power outage was higher, and you could have several buildings sharing the same power source. Although i guess many rural properties don't have natural gas piped in, so that kills that.

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## jwslam

> _Originally posted by yellowsnow_ 
> *I'm on floating electricity and gas right now. electricity has been hovering between 3.8-8.2c/kwh this year. Currently sitting at about 5c/kwh.. saving myself a whopping $15/month haha!*



Been thinking about how I could stop getting gouged by Enmax for electricity and wondering about the economics of solar panels since I get a decent amount of sun at my place.

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## Cos

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## ExtraSlow

Well, I got my "personal offer" in the mail today for $5.99 electricity from enmax. Gotta figure out if I'm better off with this, or the current easymax rewards, which would go away under the new plan. 
I do use a shitton of electricity in the warm months for my AC. Stupid warm house.

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## Xtrema

> _Originally posted by ExtraSlow_ 
> *Well, I got my &quot;personal offer&quot; in the mail today for $5.99 electricity from enmax. Gotta figure out if I'm better off with this, or the current easymax rewards, which would go away under the new plan. 
> I do use a shitton of electricity in the warm months for my AC. Stupid warm house.*



For me it's a wash. I am probably up $8 a month on average with the new deal. But it's great if start driving electric car.

Still better than tiered pricing of Ontario where the cheapest is 8.3 cents/kwh

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## ipeefreely

> _Originally posted by ExtraSlow_ 
> Well, I got my &quot;personal offer&quot; in the mail today for *$5.99 electricity* from enmax.



 :Shock: 


5.99¢/kWh  :Wink: 

Did you get the same upside down, backwards letters that I did? I though the first one was a mistake then I got another one today!  :crazy nut: 

They also called and emailed me too!  :crazy nut:  

I think the old 8¢/kWh, floating gas and $100 easymax credit is the better deal seeing how hard they're pushing the "new" deal...  :dunno:

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## ExtraSlow

Honestly, It is somewhat insane that we don't have tiered pricing here in Alberta. Peak consumption is what is causing us those supply issues in the summer heat waves. But honestly, if it doesn't cost me more, I'll keep my AC running full tilt, because I'm just not altruistic enough to do otherwise.

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## Cos

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## Xtrema

» Click image for larger version

I guess the 6.99 plan comes with a Philips Hue starter kit. Didn't even read that in the fine print.

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## ZenOps

I'm only using 525 Kwh or so.

And that was before Windows 10 (I could never get the system to sleep properly, so I just left it on all the time)

And I also bought a bunch of the Walmart special $3.88 LEDs (10 watts, to replace 50 watt halogens)

So for certain the 8.0 cent per kwh with $8 per month rebate is a better deal for me.

And: Dayum, natgas is cheap.

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/rngwhhdm.htm

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## macman64

> _Originally posted by ZenOps_ 
> 
> And I also bought a bunch of the Walmart special $3.88 LEDs (10 watts, to replace 50 watt halogens)



What this a sale or something? I can't seem to find it online.

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## nzwasp

I used $14 of Nat Gas last month and got charged $46 for fees. But my first month with the new 5.99 Power and my bill was over $100 cheaper than last month.

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## Cos

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## ZenOps

> _Originally posted by macman64_ 
> *What this a sale or something? I can't seem to find it online.*



Weekly sale in flyer. I can imagine they will have it again.

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## benyl

I've gone floating electricity. I was locked in at 8 cents. going to start playing the game.

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## Mibz

> _Originally posted by benyl_ 
> *I've gone floating electricity. I was locked in at 8 cents. going to start playing the game.*



 There isn't a "Look at the lady balls on her" meme image yet, but that's what I wanted to post here.

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## RealJimmyJames

Future electricity prices scare the hell out of me, I can't see them going anywhere but up. Changing away from coal is going to be massively expensive for Alberta. But who knows if they will just tack on a bunch of riders, or actually raise the price per KWH. I guess it makes a difference to the strategy of fixed vs floating rate.

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## Cos

> _Originally posted by RealJimmyJames_ 
> *Future electricity prices scare the hell out of me, I can't see them going anywhere but up. Changing away from coal is going to be massively expensive for Alberta. But who knows if they will just tack on a bunch of riders, or actually raise the price per KWH. I guess it makes a difference to the strategy of fixed vs floating rate.*



Counter argument is that a lot of load has been lost in this recession. Oil and Gas facilities that would be using a lot (or even large steel foundry's, etc) just aren't operating at peak loads. So while in the long rum electricity is going to rise a lot, I don't see nearly as much pressure in the short run.

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## benyl

> _Originally posted by Mibz_ 
> * There isn't a &quot;Look at the lady balls on her&quot; meme image yet, but that's what I wanted to post here.*



lady balls saved $100 this month. 4.7 cents on Electricity instead of 8.

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## jwslam

FUUUUU locked in at 7.8 for 4 more years.

 :Shock:   :Shock:  You'd be using 2500kwh to save $100 on savings of $0.04/kwh...

----------


## Cos

.

----------


## nzwasp

Direct Energy has a flyer out at the moment for a rate of 5.76c per kwh - only catch is gas is locked to $3.78 per GJ which seems like a bit of a rip considering the price for floating gas at the moment. Then again if you have all electric home comfort appliances it could be for you.

----------


## Mitsu3000gt

> _Originally posted by nzwasp_ 
> *Direct Energy has a flyer out at the moment for a rate of 5.76c per kwh - only catch is gas is locked to $3.78 per GJ which seems like a bit of a rip considering the price for floating gas at the moment. Then again if you have all electric home comfort appliances it could be for you.*



Gas is $1.27/GJ right now in Alberta haha.

March power is 1.4c right now  :crazy nut: 

The utilities must be loving it.

----------


## huch

What do you guys think of ATCO energy and their plans?

----------


## codetrap

.

----------


## drtoohotty1

> _Originally posted by huch_ 
> *What do you guys think of ATCO energy and their plans?*



They look pretty good considering you get the 100 dollar sign up bonus 50 year credit for having both utilities with them and the ability to pay with your credit card so reward points there also  :thumbs up: 

also admin fees are 50% of what enmax charges

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

> _Originally posted by drtoohotty1_ 
> * 
> 
> They look pretty good considering you get the 100 dollar sign up bonus 50 year credit for having both utilities with them and the ability to pay with your credit card so reward points there also 
> 
> also admin fees are 50% of what enmax charges*



50%? Shit. I should switch.

----------


## suntan

> _Originally posted by codetrap_ 
> *EasyMax: Floating Electricity
> EasyMax: Floating Gas + 47¢/GJ Transaction Fee
> With the EasyMax Rewards grandfathered in. 
> 
> The guy on the phone to enmax gave this to me.. told me it was the best they could do back in march last year when I switched to floating.*



 47 cents/GJ is what I pay in transaction fees, is that supposed to be a deal or something?

----------


## jwslam

> _Originally posted by suntan_ 
> * 47 cents/GJ is what I pay in transaction fees, is that supposed to be a deal or something?*



yes. fairly sure mine is $.99 per

----------


## codetrap

.

----------


## drtoohotty1

> _Originally posted by codetrap_ 
> * 
> 
> http://www.atcoenergy.com/home/about.html
> 
> These guys are brand new eh?
> 
> Can you post the sum of all your rate riders/ fees etc?*



Haven't switched over yet just say the deal over on RFD and thought I would pass it along

----------


## suntan

> _Originally posted by jwslam_ 
> * 
> yes. fairly sure mine is $.99 per*



 Wow, took a look around some providers, .89 cents seems to be the norm now.

----------


## sabad66

> _Originally posted by codetrap_ 
> * 
> I think the best route is to call Enmax and ask for a $100 off my next bill, then I'm ahead of the game for a year.*



Let us know if that works for you.

----------


## nagooro

Bump...need to setup gas and electricity next week. Looking at historical data, is easymax floating elec and gas the way to go?

----------


## blownz

Anyone that locked in years ago for 6.9 cents wasted a ton of money. You have to remember these companies are in business to make money. They wouldn't sign you up at a rate that they haven't determined will make them more money 9 times out of 10. And if you would actually save money, they company wouldn't be able to afford to pay people to walk around and sign you up on them.

My wife used to work for one of the companies that always tried to lock people into fixed price contracts and the employees all knew that you never, ever signed up for them. They always made more money on the suckers that thought they were being smart and locking in. One of our offices in Calgary locked in (an employee was an idiot) and in the last 3 years, that office has only saved money about 5 months and over paid every other month. Sometimes by more than double.

Same with the floating contracts that have a max price. Sounds great, but that max price might help you one month of the year, but they also sneak in a floor or additional fee on other months to make that and more back.

Just get a floating rate and don't sign long term.

----------


## Tik-Tok

I was locked in at a higher rate, and the math worked in my favor every year except the last one. I definitely wouldn't do it now though.

----------


## schocker

Yeah, was fixed for a while and am now on floating, looks like for the last month it was only $0.034/kwh + $0.01/kwh fee. Did go up from 0.02 +0.01 the month before.
Looks like i should lock in if it goes up on more cent here.

----------


## ZenOps

Everyones situation is different. Back when they had $100 per year back in rewards it was better for low consumption users.

The flat rates worked better for people like me who use 320 KW per month in summer and 7 GJ natgas in January. If you are an energy hog (over 1,500 KW and over 30GJ) then you probably were better off not using any plans. The 7.0 and 6.0 cent per kwh did work out fine for me at least.

PS: Still have to get a little bit of dollarama weatherstripping for screen door, I figure it might knock down another 0.2 GJ because I can feel the draft.

Fixed line fees are the vast majority of the bill for most users anyhow.

----------


## ianmcc

I recall hearing a lot of ads from Enmax promoting EasyMax and figured if Enmax was pushing it so hard to get people to sign up then it must be in their best interest not the consumer.
Why would a company promote a deal that makes them less money?

----------


## ZenOps

I always figured its because they are like a bank. Banks really like it if you lock in for term rates because it means they can "play" with the money a lot more. If you lock in for 90 days as opposed to 30 days, they might give you a tiny bit extra in interest rates.

Same with Enmax, they want to lock you into a contract to make sure you don't do something crazy like switch to that Greenfrog or stay with ATCO (which is silly because I'm pretty sure Enmax has a side deal with ATCO anyhow)

Shaw has been doing it for cable as well, locking in on one and two year rates to keep people from switching to third tier companies like Teksavvy (my current provider in Calgary for cable internet)

----------


## RealJimmyJames

Easymax wasn't a locked in program

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

> I recall hearing a lot of ads from Enmax promoting EasyMax and figured if Enmax was pushing it so hard to get people to sign up then it must be in their best interest not the consumer.
> Why would a company promote a deal that makes them less money?



I always assumed it was for market share, to take customers away from Direct Energy and such.

----------


## ZenOps

Heads up that the light bulb rebates are back for six weeks in Alberta. I went out first thing in the morning to grab Superstores Sylvania 9 watt four pack for $2. They are dimmable and rated for outdoor use, pretty impressive for a fitty cent bulb.

----------


## spikerS

WOW, natgas prices surged like crazy! Just got our bill, and nat gas prices went from like $0.49 to $2.43! :EEK: electricity charges stayed flat.

I am now doing some research, we are on the easymax variable rate for nat gas, and I am trying to figure out what caused this huge spike.... What are the options out there right now?

----------


## tha_bandit

I dont get the enmax variable rate for natgas, $0.49/GJ for last month? With DERS it was $1.825/GJ (RRO). So enmax is different rates plus they add the 0.99/GJ on top...on their website, the floating rates were 0.8 for oct and 2.2 for nov?

----------


## Disoblige

Bump for 2018!

Electricity prices is trending up lately; are you guys locking in rates or staying variable?

I heard with the ATCO competition, some people at ENMAX are able to get a $50 credit before August 21 if they switch to fixed 5.49cents/kWh for 3 years.

----------


## dj_rice

> Bump for 2018!
> 
> Electricity prices is trending up lately; are you guys locking in rates or staying variable?
> 
> I heard with the ATCO competition, some people at ENMAX are able to get a $50 credit before August 21 if they switch to fixed 5.49cents/kWh for 3 years.




I tried. No dice for me. I'd end up losing my EasyMax credits to switch which = $100+ credits lost

----------


## rx7boi

I'm on a 5 year fixed price for 6.59¢/kWh for electricity.

Nat gas is on floating Gas + 99¢/GJ Transaction Fee

Is that good? Haha.

----------


## nzwasp

Just got a letter to say my 5 year 5.99 fixed is ending in a month and they can put me on 6.59 fixed for 3 years only wondering if there are better deals - maybe its time to switch to atco.

----------


## Brent.ff

Bump:

Note from Enmax today:

"The Alberta government removed the rate cap of 6.8¢/kWh from the Regulated Rate Option (RRO) for electricity on November 30, 2019. 

You are currently on an EasyMax® floating rate plan that follows the RRO and will be affected by this change. Removing the cap could lead to greater fluctuations in the price you pay for electricity. 
EasyMax® still has you covered.

One of the benefits of EasyMax®, is that you’re free to switch between the fixed and floating rate once a month, at no cost. All of our available EasyMax® fixed rate electricity plans currently feature fixed rates which are below the previous rate cap*. 


So... whats the best bet moving forward?

----------


## killramos

Depends how much your electricity rate going up makes you want to shit your pants.

----------


## Brent.ff

> Depends how much your electricity rate going up makes you want to shit your pants.



seems my floating is paying more then a 3 year fixed right now. I dont follow the electricity market at all, whats the outlook like?

----------


## killramos

Well I know someone who likely does know the electricity market quite well. Enmax.

And trying to beat them seems like a fools errand.

Unless like I said, fluctuations in your bill scare you.

----------


## 2Legit2Quit

After just moving back to Calgary recently had to get utilities sorted out, called Enmax and Atco....Atco didn't offer anything more/better than what's listed on their website for current rates.

The Enmax rep I spoke with over the phone offered me 5.79¢/kWh on a 3 year term so I took it, easy max so I can bail down the road if things change for the better.

You can view this and last years rates here - https://ucahelps.alberta.ca/regulated-rates.aspx

Electricity has been hitting the cap limit for most of this year, and now with the cap gone, it could continue to roll into the 7+ cents range...but who knows of course.

----------


## pheoxs

> After just moving back to Calgary recently had to get utilities sorted out, called Enmax and Atco....Atco didn't offer anything more/better than what's listed on their website for current rates.
> 
> The Enmax rep I spoke with over the phone offered me 5.79¢/kWh on a 3 year term so I took it, easy max so I can bail down the road if things change for the better.
> 
> You can view this and last years rates here - https://ucahelps.alberta.ca/regulated-rates.aspx
> 
> Electricity has been hitting the cap limit for most of this year, and now with the cap gone, it could continue to roll into the 7+ cents range...but who knows of course.



I think Atco is realizing the mistake of their 3/3/3 promos haha. I don't expect them to offer anything crazy for a while

----------


## dj_rice

I'm still on the old EasyMax plan where I get a $115 rebate credit end of the year. Was wondering if I should switch to fixed as well, I believe I lose that old EasyMax rebate credit if I do change plans to the new EasyMax plan

----------


## benyl

> I'm still on the old EasyMax plan where I get a $115 rebate credit end of the year. Was wondering if I should switch to fixed as well, I believe I lose that old EasyMax rebate credit if I do change plans to the new EasyMax plan



No you don't. You don't get as good a rate as the current EasyMax plan, but you still get the rebate. I locked in yesterday on the old Easy max with the $100 / year rebate at 6.49 cents / KWh.

Just make sure you pick the right one... haha

----------


## dj_rice

> No you don't. You don't get as good a rate as the current EasyMax plan, but you still get the rebate. I locked in yesterday on the old Easy max with the $100 / year rebate at 6.49 cents / KWh.
> 
> Just make sure you pick the right one... haha



Ahhh I see it now. Looks like I have 3 options to choose from. 

Old style EasyMax which gives me $6.59/KWH and $100 yearly credit, new style EasyMax Loyalty plan gives me $6.29/KWH but only a 1 time $100 credit to account total and another option. Can't remember.

----------


## The Cosworth

Enmax was sending out emails to customers regarding the cap removal. It didn't have a lot in it. FortisAlberta has a bit of info on their website too.

https://www.fortisalberta.com/blog-d...s-mean-for-you

----------


## Disoblige

Renewed 5.79 with Enmax today. I was on RRO before.
Honestly not sure it makes a huge difference as you don't use much on a condo anyways. Free coffee every month I guess?

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Renewed 5.79 with Enmax today. I was on RRO before.
> Honestly not sure it makes a huge difference as you don't use much on a condo anyways. Free coffee every month I guess?



Even if they doubled the rates, it would still only be an extra $50 to the average Beyonder. (judging from the power usage polls in the past)

----------


## ipeefreely

> No you don't. You don't get as good a rate as the current EasyMax plan, but you still get the rebate. I locked in yesterday on the old Easy max with the $100 / year rebate at 6.49 cents / KWh.
> 
> Just make sure you pick the right one... haha






> Ahhh I see it now. Looks like I have 3 options to choose from. 
> 
> Old style EasyMax which gives me $6.59/KWH and $100 yearly credit, new style EasyMax Loyalty plan gives me $6.29/KWH but only a 1 time $100 credit to account total and another option. Can't remember.



Thanks for this!  :thumbs up:  I switched to 5 year $6.59/KWH fixed today. It was a little confusing to figure out if you could keep the old EasyMax still.

Each more information tad says they're discontinued the rewards!  :crazy nut: 



With all the stuff the NDP did the price of power is only going to go up...  :Bang Head:

----------


## killramos

How do you get on this EasyMax Loyalty Plan?

----------


## dj_rice

> How do you get on this EasyMax Loyalty Plan?



Might be only offered to people who are still originally on the old EasyMax plan.

----------


## ipeefreely

> How do you get on this EasyMax Loyalty Plan?






> Might be only offered to people who are still originally on the old EasyMax plan.




I think it supposed to entice you into paying higher fees...  :ROFL!: 


I've been with Enmax on Easymax since 2005 I think. If that matters...  :dunno:

----------


## Kjonus

> Thanks for this!  I switched to 5 year $6.59/KWH fixed today. It was a little confusing to figure out if you could keep the old EasyMax still.
> 
> Each more information tad says they're discontinued the rewards! 
> 
> 
> 
> With all the stuff the NDP did the price of power is only going to go up...



Did your fees change at all? Or did it stay much the same since changing to this plan?

----------


## TurboMedic

I too opted to switch from floating to fixed electricity with the offer, although for some reason I think my offer was 5.79 and $150 credit? Maybe I'm wrong about that. Regardless, the reason I opted to switch was the destabilization of generation with the moves to renewables. There was a good discussion on radio regarding it, and generation potential, as well as importing which could see significantly higher fluctuation and overall rates just due to supply issues. I took a look at the historical rates and found that I was (obviously with the cap) at or just above the fixed rate (another reason I think it was 5.79). There are some fee adjustments, but based on my usage, I calculated the change in monthly for the last year and it would still end up saving me a bit, plus the bill credit of $150, and the ability to still switch back if I wanted to. I haven't done any sort of rate gambles in a long time because I just haven't cared, but I think that locking electricity has merit with the shift in supply and generation creating alot of potential issues

----------


## ipeefreely

> Did your fees change at all? Or did it stay much the same since changing to this plan?



I must have switched mid-bill... my last bill hadn't changed yet.

I should be getting the fixed rate on my bill early next week. The fees should be the same.... (I hope...  :Bang Head:  ).

----------


## 94CoRd

Got the Enmax bill today. Still on the old EasyMax, so floating rate, but I think that cold snap did some damage, as rate was $0.139 / kWh. Should probably switch to the locked rate as TurboMedic pointed out, there could be a lot more fluctuation on the horizon.

----------


## dj_rice

Damn I forgot to switch. And my last bill was probably the highest I've had since living in this place. Usual bills hover around $250-280 during winter months and it was $330. But Edmonton had it cost temps ever for a few weeks as well so will have to see if it was the gas that made the bill high or electricity.

Thanks for reminder.

----------


## ipeefreely

> Did your fees change at all? Or did it stay much the same since changing to this plan?






> I must have switched mid-bill... my last bill hadn't changed yet.
> 
> I should be getting the fixed rate on my bill early next week. The fees should be the same.... (I hope...  ).



Forgot about this... no change in fees from normal.

After looking at my bills over the months I'm pretty surprised in how much the (variable) fees jump with increased consumption!  :crazy nut:

----------


## benyl

I just flipped back to floating. Seems to be at 5.60 cents kWh

----------


## dj_rice

I've left mine as is, floating for both and last months bill for NG was nuts. All the fees itself and the federal carbon tax back on  :Guns:

----------


## nagooro

My utilities are up for renewal..seems like floating natural gas and fixed electricity are the way to go.

For electricity, I can do:
1 year @ $6.29
3 year @ $6.39
5 year @ $6.59

Was likely going to just go with the 3 year rate, is there any reason I should chose the 1 or 5 year?

----------


## ZenOps

Texas utility assreaming got me spooked bad:

Locked in today on Enmax fixed 6.59 cents per kwh and fixed $4.09 per GJ, for the maximum 5 years. Not the best deal over the winter, but I figure the floating side is just too much of a risk.

6.59 Canadian cents for electricity is crazy cheap if you compare to anyplace in North America.

----------


## pheoxs

> Texas utility assreaming got me spooked bad:
> 
> Locked in today on Enmax fixed 6.59 cents per kwh and fixed $4.09 per GJ, for the maximum 5 years. Not the best deal over the winter, but I figure the floating side is just too much of a risk.
> 
> 6.59 Canadian cents for electricity is crazy cheap if you compare to anyplace in North America.



Still crazy that ATCo offered a 3 cent / 3$GJ / 3 year contract a couple years back, has been gold. Though they are coming to an end soon sadly

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Still crazy that ATCo offered a 3 cent / 3$GJ / 3 year contract a couple years back, has been gold. Though they are coming to an end soon sadly



Sucks. I'm going to have to turn my garage furnace down next winter to less than 15°  :Cry:

----------


## ZenOps

For future reference:

https://www.atco.com/en-ca/for-home/...our-plans.html

Electricity	
1-year plan: 6.99¢/kWh
2-year plan: 6.89¢/kWh
3-year plan: 6.79¢/kWh
Market + 0¢/kWh
Market + 0¢/kWh
Market + 0¢/kWh
Natural Gas	
1-year plan: $3.79/GJ
2-year plan: $3.79/GJ
3-year plan: $3.79/GJ
Market + 0¢/GJ
Market + 0¢/GJ
Market + 0¢/GJ

https://www.enmax.com/home/electrici...l-gas/easymax?

Fixed rates
6.29¢/kWh± 1-year Fixed
6.39¢/kWh± 3-year Fixed
6.59¢/kWh± 5-year Fixed

Floating rate 3-Year Floating Rate±

Fixed rates
$3.79/GJ± 1-year Fixed
$3.79/GJ± 3-year Fixed
$4.09/GJ± 5-year Fixed

Floating rate Floating Natural Gas Rate± + 99¢/GJ transaction fee

----------


## firebane

I think its crazy that you get charged the floating rate for gas per gj and then additionally get charged .99 for a "transaction" fee of the amount you used.

With that said .. floating rate of gas has generally been fairly low and better than the fixed price for awhile.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Well I know someone who likely does know the electricity market quite well. Enmax.
> 
> And trying to beat them seems like a fools errand.
> 
> Unless like I said, fluctuations in your bill scare you.



Digging up this quote from 15 months ago.
It's truly a */thread* quality quote.

----------


## Disoblige

I am on Enmax fixed elec, floating gas.
This is the way.

----------


## killramos

> Digging up this quote from 15 months ago.
> It's truly a */thread* quality quote.



Some things in life are not worth overthinking.

----------


## TurboMedic

> I am on Enmax fixed elec, floating gas.
> This is the way.



Same, this thread getting bumped made me go look at what I was at, and I was pleased to find out I'm 5.79c/Kwh and floating gas until 2023. Last January me had some foresight I guess

----------


## firebane

> Same, this thread getting bumped made me go look at what I was at, and I was pleased to find out I'm 5.79c/Kwh and floating gas until 2023. Last January me had some foresight I guess



Nice rate. I'm locked in at 6.39 for electricity right now.

----------


## ZenOps

Yeah but, I don't think even Enmax had covid and 13 million people in Texas on boil water because of no power being a thing.

Texas doing what is possibly illegal, in not selling natgas to other states temporarily. But noone is going to call them on it because people are literally dying.

A good guess is that though 7 cents or so was average for a long time, it might change drastically soon.

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

5yr 5.99c/kwh fixed electricty.
Floating gas.
Expires May 2024.

----------


## bjstare

> Digging up this quote from 15 months ago.
> It's truly a */thread* quality quote.



Could pop this in a mortgage thread and sub “Enmax” for “[your bank]”.

----------


## schocker

Double checked mine and was 5.49 fixed 3 yr elec until 06/2021 and floating gas.

----------


## cloud7

Thinking of switching back to Enmax. Just got my utilities bill from ATCO. The Wholesale Variable Plan electricity rate was $0.199703/KWH between Jan 27 and Feb 23. Needless to say I am not at all happy that my electricity charge alone was over $250. Natural gas wasn't too bad... part of the month was $3.54/GJ and another was $5.11/GJ.

For those on variable rate with Enmax, what was the $/KWH between the same time period? ATCO's excuse for the high electricity rate is that it was what Enmax charged them.

----------


## sabad66

> Thinking of switching back to Enmax. Just got my utilities bill from ATCO. The Wholesale Variable Plan electricity rate was $0.199703/KWH between Jan 27 and Feb 23. Needless to say I am not at all happy that my electricity charge alone was over $250. Natural gas wasn't too bad... part of the month was $3.54/GJ and another was $5.11/GJ.
> 
> For those on variable rate with Enmax, what was the $/KWH between the same time period? ATCO's excuse for the high electricity rate is that it was what Enmax charged them.



$0.19 for electricity?!?!? does that include the distribution costs too? that's nuts either way.

I'm going to be really sad when my 3 for all deal with Atco expires this December...probably need to start thinking about what i'm going to do once fall hits. Crossing fingers that there are some good promos around then. Maybe enmax will do a similar deal to try to steal all the Atco customers back  :ROFL!:

----------


## cloud7

> $0.19 for electricity?!?!? does that include the distribution costs too? that's nuts either way.
> 
> I'm going to be really sad when my 3 for all deal with Atco expires this December...probably need to start thinking about what i'm going to do once fall hits. Crossing fingers that there are some good promos around then. Maybe enmax will do a similar deal to try to steal all the Atco customers back



Yes, almost $0.20/kWh for just electricity not including any additional delivery charges. I thought it was a mistake as I have never seen it close to that high ever with ATCO. I think the most I've seen with them was $0.15 before on a really cold month (Jan 2020?). I don't mind variable rates if the fluctuations aren't crazy. 

Can someone on Enmax confirm that the variable rate was around $0.08/kWh for around the same time period (Jan 27 to Feb 23)?

----------


## dirtsniffer



----------


## cloud7

> 



Thanks dirtsniffer. That was what I thought... I could have saved close to $100 with Enmax.

----------


## ExtraSlow

What are the current promotions for fixed rate electricity? I can't see it getting cheaper over time. I don't think 3 cents will ever come back either. I see easymax fixed rate is 6.29 for one year, 6.39 for three years right now.

----------


## nzwasp

Whats up with the floating gas rate lately? My bill was $100 higher last month. Thought gas was cheap!

----------


## bjstare

> Whats up with the floating gas rate lately? My bill was $100 higher last month. Thought gas was cheap!



Umm supply/demand? It was cold as fuck for that month.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Cold across North America. Significant demand increases everywhere the natural gas pipes reach. Price goes up.

----------


## dj_rice

> Yes, almost $0.20/kWh for just electricity not including any additional delivery charges. I thought it was a mistake as I have never seen it close to that high ever with ATCO. I think the most I've seen with them was $0.15 before on a really cold month (Jan 2020?). I don't mind variable rates if the fluctuations aren't crazy. 
> 
> Can someone on Enmax confirm that the variable rate was around $0.08/kWh for around the same time period (Jan 27 to Feb 23)?




I even got an email warning from Enmax stating this months bill was higher than usual due to the cold.

Heres mine with EasyMax

----------


## pheoxs

> Thanks dirtsniffer. That was what I thought... I could have saved close to $100 with Enmax.



Rates are regulated, pretty sure you'd pay the same per kwh either way

----------


## 94CoRd

> I even got an email warning from Enmax stating this months bill was higher than usual due to the cold.
> 
> Heres mine with EasyMax



Pretty much an identical bill here. Still with EasyMax. During cold or warm spells, when I know rates are spiking, I wonder about locking in at a rate. I've tracked my bills the last few years, and unless the delivery, transaction, or other admin charges differ,.I'd be paying more monthly (on average) by switching to a locked-in rate of 0.0599/kWh. With the yearly EasyMax rewards, I'll stick with variable.

----------


## Proyecto2000

Electric Energy Charges - ENMAX Energy Corporation (EasyMax Fixed 3 Years)
Energy Charge ...................................1,159.740 kWh @ $ 0.057900 / kWh .............$ 67.15 *


Working from home as increased my electricity usage from 540kWh in 2019 and 580kWh in 2020. Good thing I save time and gas money by not commuting  :Smilie:

----------


## Cagare

> What are the current promotions for fixed rate electricity? I can't see it getting cheaper over time. I don't think 3 cents will ever come back either. I see easymax fixed rate is 6.29 for one year, 6.39 for three years right now.



I just came up for renewal. Rates are low 6 cent rate per kwh for fixed contracts depending on the length of term.

----------


## cyra1ax

Just renewed last month with Enmax, got 5.99c/kwh for 3 years on a "loyalty" deal.

----------


## ExtraSlow

6 cents is probably fine. Floating rate is also probably fine.

----------


## nzwasp

Somewhat related question, since alot of alberta's energy players are getting into building more cogen plants to contribute to the grid, this should push the price per kwh down?

----------


## ExtraSlow

No. Price is not going down. Solar and wind and batteries will in aggregate make our electricity very expensive over time. Cogen is a drop in the bucket.

----------


## Cagare

> Somewhat related question, since alot of alberta's energy players are getting into building more cogen plants to contribute to the grid, this should push the price per kwh down?



Hmm, I just pulled a report from last year from Hydro Quebec

https://www.hydroquebec.com/data/doc...ity-prices.pdf

It seems our rates are higher than most in Alberta, there must be combining of the kwh cost with the distribution cost. Of course rates are low in Manitoba and Quebec with all that sweet hydro power.

----------


## cyra1ax

I'm far from a co-gen expert, but AFAIK the power generated via co-gen is generally consumed on site.

----------


## nzwasp

This guy I was talking to at suncor seemed to think they were the 3rd biggest power producer in Alberta. Guess he didn’t know anything.





> Some of Alberta’s largest electricity generators include TransAlta, Heartland Generation, Suncor, ENMAX, and Capital Power.



From https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-an...lberta.html#s1

If suncor is a major power producer are they producing power by means other than cogen?

----------


## cyra1ax

Like I said, far from a cogen expert lol.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

I think you're both right~ish. Massive producer but also massive consumer. At that rate, they don't typically consume all of it.

*Third not expert

----------


## ExtraSlow

not a NET producer.

----------


## nzwasp

Well whenever Alberta gets on the EV boom there will need to be more power produced somehow in the province.

----------


## ExtraSlow

power consumption is going up no matter what, and the cheapest baseload power plants are being shut down. EV is going to be a factor, but it's going up either way.

----------


## zechs

So, here is what seems to be an awfully difficult question to answer:

Where do I get the absolute cheapest electricty/lowest bill per month?

I've always been floating, seems to work for me, but I've never really ran the numbers.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Well whenever Alberta gets on the EV boom there will need to be more power produced somehow in the province.



Nope. Comes out of holes in wall. Case closed.
Easy.
/Greta.

----------


## pheoxs

> This guy I was talking to at suncor seemed to think they were the 3rd biggest power producer in Alberta. Guess he didn’t know anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-an...lberta.html#s1
> 
> If suncor is a major power producer are they producing power by means other than cogen?



Yeah. Suncor has a 60mw wind farm and they also sell their excess electricity back to the grid. Also they have a 400mw wind project in the works 

https://www.suncor.com/en-ca/about-u...-power-project

I don't think they are 3rd but they are up there and it'll be more when their coker replacement is done in a couple years

----------


## suntan

I wonder what their hooker replacements will look like.

----------


## vengie

Bumping this up.

Plan is up for renewal, what is the current consensus vs fixed or variable?

----------


## phreezee

I tried fixed for 1 year and not a single month was cheaper than the previous year. Back to variable for me. 
Adding attic insulation and the instant hot water heater has decreased my bill significantly this year. 
Enmax reports my energy consumption is down 33% for the past 3 months.

----------


## killramos

Unless you think you know more than Enmax, or would be in serious financial difficulty if your Enmax bill fluctuated unexpectedly.

The answer is always variable.

----------


## pheoxs

So the spot price of electricity went from 50$/MW to 600$/MW today briefly. Curious how this translates to variable rates for the home? Is that 60 cents a kwh?

I'm assuming they don't calculate it as a live per hour usage like in the US, does it just go into a daily average?

----------


## cyra1ax

According to what I could find on the UCAHelps and Direct Energy websites, the variable rate is calculated on a monthly basis.

----------


## suntan

I think only businesses pay the spot rate. OTOH that might have changed too.

----------


## killramos

Do our meters in Calgary even have the ability to work with TOU pricing?

----------


## suntan

No idea.

I remember ages ago at the office I think what happened is we were billed for 1 second of electricity use at the highest spot price allowed along with whatever variable rate we were paying at the time. It like doubled or tripled our bill lol.

----------


## pheoxs

The price keeps getting higher with the heat wave, gotta imagine the next few days are going to be rough for prices.



Mostly just posting as a reminder to see how this affects the bills when they come out.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Do our meters in Calgary even have the ability to work with TOU pricing?



I think not.

----------


## FraserB

A week of this will hit August rates right? I thought that the floating rates were always published a month ahead. July 2021 regulates rate is already listed as 10.07/kWh for Enmax

----------


## killramos

It will all come out in the wash

----------


## ZenOps

Price is high, but the only thing that will really justify crazy price is if they have to do a rolling blackout. Or in Calgarys case: Shut down the NE for two hours.

Rolling blackout in Texas and rolling blackout in Alberta would convince me that the matrix has turned on us.

----------


## rc51

$600?MW. Interesting, how the heck did it go to $9,000/MWh in Texas in Feb? Someone making ALOT of $$$.

----------


## ZenOps

https://www.enmax.com/home/rro/regulated-rates

10.071 cents per kwh on variable. Still, the majority of the summer peak cost might show up next month.

----------


## ZenOps

https://www.enmax.com/home/rro/regulated-rates

12.024¢ per kwh this month, still reasonable - but no doubt high for Alberta.

----------


## firebane

LOL I have no idea why we did... but for some reason we switched to 3 year fixed electricity and its a 6.39kWh rate.

Phew dodged this bullet.

----------


## Disoblige

Damn we into mid 6s now for fixed?
Wonder what it will be like when it is time to renew in late 2022/early 2023...
I am at 5.79c right now.

----------


## redline

It is going to be harsh for me on my atco contract at 3 cents that ends at Xmas this year

----------


## Tik-Tok

> It is going to be harsh for me on my atco contract at 3 cents that ends at Xmas this year



Yeah, you'll have at 6c/kwh you'll have to pay a whole $20 more a month.

----------


## sabad66

My 3 for all ends in December too. But im thinking to go variable nat gas when the time comes so that should offset some of the increased electricity cost

----------


## ZenOps

3 cents was sure nice if you had an electric car and a bitcoin miner, arguably the two things you would have wanted the most in the last few years.

How much fuel to run a car for a year? $100?

With cheap power comes opportunity. All the numpties stayed with oil and gas consumption. "All you get with oil, are people who think that everything should burn"

----------


## Kjonus

Well there is a new 900 MW combined cycle power plant under construction near Edson. It will be interesting to see how this affects the price on the grid next year.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Well there is a new 900 MW combined cycle power plant under construction near Edson. It will be interesting to see how this affects the price on the grid next year.



Rates go down, fixed fees go up.

----------


## schurchill39

Just switched over to 6.69 cents/kwh fixed for 3 years but I'll likely keep an eye on it over winter and switch to variable when this craziness stops

----------


## birdman86

Anybody know how distribution charges compare with enmax vs epcor vs atco? All I know is its a completely random amount one month to the next on my current bills.

----------


## bjstare

I thought I was on floating elec for the longest time, looked at my bill and turns out I've been on fixed 5.99 since... some time in the past. Was a nice surprise when I was expecting a $700 bill for last month haha.

----------


## ExtraSlow

we'll all be over 10c soon enough, don't worry.

----------


## suntan

> Anybody know how distribution charges compare with enmax vs epcor vs atco? All I know is its a completely random amount one month to the next on my current bills.



Depends on which executive needs a new house.

----------


## Ekliptix

I just signed up at $6.69 cents/kwh fixed for 3 years. And Gas at $4.09/GJ fixed for 3 yrs. I don't like my monthly bill fluctuating.

----------


## sabad66

Damn 4.09 is the going rate for fixed gas these days?!? My atco 3 for all deal is also expiring this December so I’m going to be in for some disappointment soon.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> we'll all be over 10c soon enough, don't worry.



15c if you have an electric vehicle registered to your house, I'm sure.

----------


## killramos

Market gas was $4/GJ last month so I don’t know why people are surprised

----------


## Disoblige

Hmm... Fixed electricity was a no-brainer over the past year or so, but we're getting to the point I am considering switching to fixed gas before winter...

Hmmmmm.... What are you guys going to do?

----------


## ExtraSlow

Can I go variable on my black cart?

----------


## Disoblige

> Can I go variable on my black cart?



I can easily go once every 2 months on my black cart.

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

I still have 5.99 fixed electricity until May 2024, so I'm happy with that.
Remember when floating gas was like $0.60/GJ 2 years ago?

----------


## Asian_defender

I'm surprised gas is going up so much this summer. Do you guys know why? I was thinking of switch to fixed gas as well

----------


## ExtraSlow

> I'm surprised gas is going up so much this summer. Do you guys know why? I was thinking of switch to fixed gas as well



Less drilling for several years due to low prices (both gas and oil), and high usage for power generation.

----------


## Disoblige

My worry isn't so much right now, but from Nov to Feb.. If it goes past $4 and you're on variable... GG.

----------


## killramos

Usage charges are a very small part of my bill.

----------


## FraserB

Anyone else looking at locking in natural gas? Fixed is $4.09/GJ and the future price looks like it could hit $6+ after the transaction fee is added on

----------


## killramos

The solution to high gas prices. Is high gas prices.

----------


## ExtraSlow

No, I like floating. I look at natural gas pricing reasonably often for work, and even with the transaction fee I don't think you'll come out ahead on the fixed rate.

----------


## cyra1ax

If you're not tied to Enmax/Easymax, I'm seeing $3.79/GJ+$6.99/month admin fee with Atco. Saw that thread on Reddit this morning with the projected rates going forward, it's making me consider locking in for once.

----------


## pheoxs

> Anyone else looking at locking in natural gas? Fixed is $4.09/GJ and the future price looks like it could hit $6+ after the transaction fee is added on



Does fixed gas still have the 0.99$/GJ fee? The fine print makes it sound like it even though there isn't a asterisks?

----------


## suntan

There is no way any utility company will let you let them lose money.

----------


## FraserB

> Does fixed gas still have the 0.99$/GJ fee? The fine print makes it sound like it even though there isn't a asterisks?



Just on floating, the fixed is all in.

----------


## killramos

There are only 2 reasons to go with fixed pricing.

1 You would suffer irreparable financial damage if prices went up and you are willing to pay a premium and miss out on the downside for this security.

2 you think you know better about the gas futures market than the traders/forecasters at the gas company

There is no number 3

----------


## Disoblige

I locked in gas. It is a no brainer to lock in. I also locked in for 3 years.

Why you ask? Because locking in doesn't mean anything. You can still switch back to floating with 30 days notice if you want. It's not like it's a mortgage or cell phone contract. Locking it in protects you from those big swings, and you can just go back to floating again in March/April if prices start going down. Especially now when it isn't even winter yet and things are likely going to get worse. Switching between locked and fixed is the way to go. My buddy has a locked rate of $3.79/GJ I believe from earlier this spring.

As can you see in the thread, I asked this last month. I ended up locking in with ENMAX a couple weeks later. I will likely go back to floating by giving notice in March or late February.

----------


## suntan

The issue is the 30 day notice. So once you notice prices going back down, you're still paying the higher price for that billing cycle. That's how they get ya.

----------


## Disoblige

> The issue is the 30 day notice. So once you notice prices going back down, you're still paying the higher price for that billing cycle. That's how they get ya.



How is that worse than staying floating over the winter when you know the floating prices right now in August/September are the same as fixed or higher? Seems like a better risk reward to go fixed than wing it over the winter. There is low chance it will go lower, so...

I stayed floating last year because gas prices were low and no where near the fixed costs. But this time around it is different. I rather save some money and spend it on +15 lunches.

----------


## killramos

Because they have factored all that into the fixed price they are offering.

They, being the people with more information than we do. They who have locked in purchase contracts well in advance. Also they who ultimately get to set the floating rates to ensure a healthy margin for themselves.

It’s not that going fixed will necessarily work better or worse in any given month, but that in aggregate over a long period of time they get to lock in a profit on offering that fixed product at a premium.

----------


## ZenOps

But: Gas traders and forecaster only know about gas. They may not have factored in the massive amount of money printing in the last year, noone probably could have forseen it. Its always a comparison of one asset class to another. I'm still on track for $80/hour not being enough for Rob Anders to shine my shoes in the next three decades.

At the very least, whatever commodity asset had a forward looking chart pre-covid - you probably should just tack on at least 30% as money printing now. Or if it happens to be a consumable, same price but 30% shrinkflation.

Shoulda bought Bored Apes.

----------


## pheoxs

Wasn't it a few years ago during a bad deep freeze that natural gas rates went to 10$+ ... pretty sure one month of that covers any possible overhead from being on fixed the rest of the time. Summer rates are lower but when you use 1GJ in a month does it really matter?

End of the day in winter I know I'll only ever pay 1$ or maybe 2$ per GJ extra since there's the 0.99$ fee. On variable you can pay a lot more if it spikes significantly. Given our fucked weather lately .... ehhh probably going to be a shit winter.

----------


## ZenOps

I'm pretty sure some gas analyst is looking at these late summer rates and is having some sort of seizure. Hurricane season isn't close to being over either.

Technically there is no limit to how high it can get, just like Texas electricity rates. Everyone just assumes that since it never happened before in their lifetime, it will never happen. Requiem for an earthquake.

----------


## suntan

> Because they have factored all that into the fixed price they are offering.
> 
> They, being the people with more information than we do. They who have locked in purchase contracts well in advance. Also they who ultimately get to set the floating rates to ensure a healthy margin for themselves.
> 
> It’s not that going fixed will necessarily work better or worse in any given month, but that in aggregate over a long period of time they get to lock in a profit on offering that fixed product at a premium.



What this very smart man said.

There's basically no way to arbitrage the prices. They offer fixed rates to make you *feel* better.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Next you guys are going to tell me that extended warranties are a poor value.  :crazy nut:  :rocket:  :rocket:  :crazy nut:

----------


## Disoblige

Simply put, for 2021 prices in Nov, Dec, Jan, and Feb are likely going to be higher than floating. Locked in at $4.09 and telling ENMAX to change me back to floating sometime in early Feb.

Now if you tell me you're just lazy to call in and make the change twice a year, then OK.

If you look at July/August prices, you're paying ~$4.60/GJ. Already over.

----------


## pheoxs

> Next you guys are going to tell me that extended warranties are a poor value.



I think a better comparison would be most vehicles similar to yours having major issues at 100k. And yours is at 90k and you still have an option to buy extended warranty for only the time frame you want it.

----------


## firebane

> Simply put, for 2021 prices in Nov, Dec, Jan, and Feb are likely going to be higher than floating. Locked in at $4.09 and telling ENMAX to change me back to floating sometime in early Feb.
> 
> Now if you tell me you're just lazy to call in and make the change twice a year, then OK.



You can make the change on their website in your underwear while listening to Justin Bieber

----------


## killramos

If only there was some kind of… market, where you could buy and sell future contracts for natural gas to marth out these sorts of things relative to today’s floating price.

Oh well.

----------


## Disoblige

All good, it's all penny pinching anyways.

----------


## suntan

> You can make the change on their website in your underwear while listening to Justin Bieber



Hey how did you know what I was doing last night.

----------


## zechs

> All good, it's all penny pinching anyways.



Beyond has a habit of getting very weird about savings at the extreme margins.

----------


## Disoblige

> Beyond has a habit of getting very weird about savings at the extreme margins.



$0.17 cents to open and close your garage door. THINK OF THE PENNIES!  :ROFL!: 
_(disclosure: that was on "So Freakin' Cheap" TV show on TLC)_

----------


## suntan

It's the ZenOps in each of us.

----------


## mr2mike

I don't see how this is a "no brainer". Seems like variable will be fine.
One spike and that's what they want you to hear and buy into the fixed.
All the while I'm riding less than fixed every other month.

----------


## mr2mike



----------


## Disoblige

Sorry Mike, but you're wrong. But only matters if you care about saving a few bucks. Kinda a wash in the summer time, but a gamble as you head into winter. Talking about gas here.

Floating + $0.99 is the same or more over the past couple months vs. Fixed.

----------


## mr2mike

Since I have to see the data, here's the plot. Can add whatever anyone else wants.
Not adding weather because I'll just put a randomize # in at that point.

Basically, are you betting that AECO forecast will continue up?
Nice sweeping arc on that forecast but it's historically not that. Spike up and down.
Everyone's own call and if you do go fixed, get out before March like Disoblige. Cancel Jan 30.

----------


## killramos

Your AECO strip is probably 25 cents light versus current

----------


## ExtraSlow

Looks like the trend lines are converging. So after about mid 2025 variable with its 0.99 fee will be less than aeco. Then sell the gas back to the pipeline at a profit! I love arbitrage. 

Nate silver approves.

----------


## mr2mike

> Your AECO strip is probably 25 cents light versus current



Updated chart using gas alberta. Com

----------


## ZenOps

C'mon this is Alberta, to speculate of price of natural gas even as an amateur, is like provincial pastime.

Even calculated that it takes two nickels to run my furnace for one cycle. Its also the most important thing ever. Heat.

----------


## cyra1ax

Thanks for the charts Mr Mike. Only question I have is if the Enmax variable rate is the same as the RRO, or is there additional profit bucketed in there? Only reason I'm asking is cause I only saw a max of $4.10/GJ on my February/March bills, where you have it tickling $5 in that period. Only caveat is that I'm not with Enmax.

----------


## sabad66

This guy seems smart and he claims he locked in gas for his home:



Im leaning towards doing it as well but Ill decide in December when my atco contract expires

----------


## mr2mike

> Thanks for the charts Mr Mike. Only question I have is if the Enmax variable rate is the same as the RRO, or is there additional profit bucketed in there? Only reason I'm asking is cause I only saw a max of $4.10/GJ on my February/March bills, where you have it tickling $5 in that period. Only caveat is that I'm not with Enmax.



I am not sure. The values I was pulling are in the Enmax area plot that any Enmax customer can view.
I wouldn't be surprised because there is an endless amount of service fees from Enmax. If you have a 3rd party vendor they're probably flowing through a fee to you.

----------


## Disoblige

The reason why it is a no brainer is because you have your previous REAL LIFE billing to look at. If you are already paying the same price as fixed OR HIGHER in July/August, then what do you expect to happen from Oct to Feb?
Stop looking at plots and start looking at your actual bills to see what you paid and see if you are willing to take the risk to stay floating.

As I said, you gotta evaluate it but this is the first time ever I "locked in". Quoted because you're not really locked in at all, just protecting yourself from spikes during the winter and you have to give 30 days notice to switch (if you are on ENMAX). If you feel comfortable taking the risk, then you do you. But we will definitely know "woulda, shoulda, coulda" by January.

Floating Example:

Already paying over $4.50/GJ.

----------


## cyra1ax

> I am not sure. The values I was pulling are in the Enmax area plot that any Enmax customer can view.
> I wouldn't be surprised because there is an endless amount of service fees from Enmax. If you have a 3rd party vendor they're probably flowing through a fee to you.



Thanks. 
Any chance you would be willing to add in the regulated rates as another series? 
Values are about halfway down the page here, I believe the Direct Energy/Atco ones are applicable to southern Alberta. 
https://ucahelps.alberta.ca/regulated-rates.aspx

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

I locked in my gas @ 4.09. Considering floating has the 0.99 fee, that means that if floating hits >3.10, then my locked in, is a better deal.
It worked out for me on electricity @ 5.99.

----------


## killramos

I naturally hedge this shit by being overexposed to gas prices in my portfolio  :ROFL!: 

I make way more at $5-6AECO than Enmax will ever charge me haha

----------


## ExtraSlow

> I naturally hedge this shit by being overexposed to gas prices in my portfolio 
> 
> I make way more at $5-6AECO than Enmax will ever charge me haha



Pretty much this for me too. My entire career and house value is highly leveraged to natural gas price. Enmax is the least of my worries.

----------


## vengie

Over the past year I've been averaging ~$3.2/gj, with one major outlier in March of 2020 where it spiked to $4.04.

Current fixed rate is $4.09/gj.

Seems like in the short term fixed rate power and floating gas is the way to go.

----------


## Asian_defender

Can someone with more wrinkles in their brain explain this? Is it more fear mongering? I don't understand the trend enough to make an accurate judgement 
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nat...urge-1.6175531

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

I locked in natty gas at 4.09 without the 0.99 cent fee floating had. Seemed like a no brainer.

----------


## sabad66

Could it be that the lack of investment into O&G over the last 6-7 years cuz of the downturn is going to eventually cause a supply shortage? Or is that more on the oil side of things?

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Can someone with more wrinkles in their brain explain this? Is it more fear mongering? I don't understand the trend enough to make an accurate judgement 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nat...urge-1.6175531



It's gone up because supply and storage as marginally lower than previous years, and there is the potential for price spikes if the weather is very cold across much of north america. The long-trem outlook is not for any kid of shortage or supply issue, and reasonably moderate prices, but there is a big potential of short term price spikes. 

I personally don't think it's worth locking in, but hey, whatever you gotta do.

----------


## pheoxs

> Over the past year I've been averaging ~$3.2/gj, with one major outlier in March of 2020 where it spiked to $4.04.
> 
> Current fixed rate is $4.09/gj.
> 
> Seems like in the short term fixed rate power and floating gas is the way to go.



That's historical though. We are going into a winter after a pandemic that'll be roughly 2 years at that point. Energy prices are spiking up in general, a number of projects/maintenance likely delayed by the pandemic, and inflation is hitting record levels. It's not hard to think things will spike up in the midst of winter when we use the most gas. It's important to remember that if gas averages below 4.09$ for 9 months of the year but is above that for Dec/Jan/Feb then you'll likely average out to spend more floating because of those months consuming a lot more.

----------


## Disoblige

None of you are reading.
You can revert back to floating with 30 days notice w/ENMAX. It doesn't matter if you "locked in" with 1, 3, or 5 year fixed.

Anyways, have a good weekend y'all! My furnace kicked in for the first time today since the spring  :ROFL!:

----------


## ExtraSlow

I assume people are talking about Atco or Direct or something when they say "locked in."

----------


## cyra1ax

> I assume people are talking about Atco or Direct or something when they say "locked in."



I'm planning to move to Atco and both their live chat and website FAQ state that there are zero cancellation fees for breaking a contract early, just need to provide 15 days prior notice.

----------


## Xtrema

> Beyond has a habit of getting very weird about savings at the extreme margins.



It's not extreme if you have a grow op.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> None of you are reading.
> You can revert back to floating with 30 days notice w/ENMAX. It doesn't matter if you "locked in" with 1, 3, or 5 year fixed.
> 
> Anyways, have a good weekend y'all! My furnace kicked in for the first time today since the spring



Too late for the TPiM magic furnace dust fixer system? Noooo!!!!

----------


## Disoblige

> Too late for the TPiM magic furnace dust fixer system? Noooo!!!!



lol I thought about it when it came on, but to be honest I don't really see an issue? It smelt briefly like burnt dust because of the settlement but no dust clouds or anything like that at all.

----------


## killramos

Cant say I noticed anything about burnt dust at all

Must be my super modern system

----------


## Xtrema

> Can someone with more wrinkles in their brain explain this? Is it more fear mongering? I don't understand the trend enough to make an accurate judgement 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nat...urge-1.6175531



I thought all the noise is about Europe.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/16/euro...of-winter.html



Meanwhile Putin is dancing
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/...-crisis-a75054

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> lol I thought about it when it came on, but to be honest I don't really see an issue? It smelt briefly like burnt dust because of the settlement but no dust clouds or anything like that at all.



I guess I just really _really_ hate that smell, LoL!
It's never like a literal cloud, of course. I turned my fireplace on a couple weeks ago and it stunk, too. I don't have a procedure developed for that, yet...

----------


## mr2mike

> Thanks. 
> Any chance you would be willing to add in the regulated rates as another series? 
> Values are about halfway down the page here, I believe the Direct Energy/Atco ones are applicable to southern Alberta. 
> https://ucahelps.alberta.ca/regulated-rates.aspx



Looks like Apex loves to spike it's customers.



Can anyone supply previous lock in rates for EnMax? Would be interesting to see if you're winning.

----------


## mr2mike

> Too late for the TPiM magic furnace dust fixer system? Noooo!!!!



I tried your way. Seems to work. I'll let you know when the French maid comes to dust.

----------


## suntan

Disco Stu says prices can only go up.

----------


## Disoblige

Some moron tried to get me to sign on their MLM with "Ambit Energy" today. At least we can all agree that's a load of BS lol.

----------


## ExtraSlow

You don't have to be hurtful and call me a moron.

----------


## Misterman

> How is that worse than staying floating over the winter when you know the floating prices right now in August/September are the same as fixed or higher? Seems like a better risk reward to go fixed than wing it over the winter. There is low chance it will go lower, so...
> 
> I stayed floating last year because gas prices were low and no where near the fixed costs. But this time around it is different. I rather save some money and spend it on +15 lunches.



Said the futures trader that lost everything on low winter gas prices..................


I haven't examined this enough as it isn't very important for me to potentially save or lose 20$ in a month. But the way the utility companies hound you about locking in, tells me it's to their benefit. There is no way in hell they are actively pursuing their customers to trick them into saving money.

- - - Updated - - -




> Can’t say I noticed anything about burnt dust at all
> 
> Must be my super modern system



Or you're not a poor pleb without central air conditioning.

----------


## killramos

Oh yea. Definitely that.

- - - Updated - - -




> You don't have to be hurtful and call me a moron.



You’re not nearly a good enough salesman for an MLM

----------


## sabad66

> Said the futures trader that lost everything on low winter gas prices..................
> 
> 
> I haven't examined this enough as it isn't very important for me to potentially save or lose 20$ in a month. But the way the utility companies hound you about locking in, tells me it's to their benefit. There is no way in hell they are actively pursuing their customers to trick them into saving money.



I think it’s more to protect themselves from the inevitable backlash when people get massive bills and then complain to the government or get on the news saying how bad the utility companies are raping them.

----------


## Disoblige

> I guess I just really _really_ hate that smell, LoL!
> It's never like a literal cloud, of course. I turned my fireplace on a couple weeks ago and it stunk, too. I don't have a procedure developed for that, yet...



You sure on your end it wasn't burnt duck?

----------


## ZenOps

If it pushes over $10, the USA citizens themselves will probably be bringing out the clubs for those who shut down KeystoneXL.

----------


## ZenOps

OR, you could look at this as lawsuit mitigation. If you know that 2% or less of the population bothers to call in to get a fixed rate, then when the rates get to $20 per GJ, Enmax/Atco can say that "we had this fixed rate all this time" and you have no excuse for not paying your bill.

Its 2021, by now people should know making money is all about lawsuit mitigation.

UK is already having a tough time with a host of small issues combining to make energy prices soar.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/eu...ns-11631714492

"price for the U.K.’s main electricity auctions reportedly surging to a record price of £2,500/MWh for peak demand hours on Wednesday. That is from an average £40/MWh."

----------


## suntan

> I think it’s more to protect themselves from the inevitable backlash when people get massive bills and then complain to the government or get on the news saying how bad the utility companies are raping them.



You are correct.

----------


## R-Audi

This thread makes me super thankful that I locked in with Atco when they had the $3/$0.03 combo deal a few years back. Last year of the deal currently, but Id venture to say it worked out in my favor.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> This thread makes me super thankful that I locked in with Atco when they had the $3/$0.03 combo deal a few years back. Last year of the deal currently, but Id venture to say it worked out in my favor.



that was a very good deal in retrospect.

----------


## suntan

$3/GJ was a lot.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> $3/GJ was a lot.



True, but for my usage the savings on electricity was a lot more than the expense of gas.

----------


## suntan

5-6 cents for me. That's like $10/mth less.

----------


## Disoblige

> True, but for my usage the savings on electricity was a lot more than the expense of gas.



Interesting to hear. Always thought it was the opposite for most.

----------


## sabad66

> True, but for my usage the savings on electricity was a lot more than the expense of gas.



Same. Grow setup + mining rig + a/c + original furnaces with inefficient blower fan running 24/7 all summer = lots of kWh per month.

----------


## suntan

Jesus this is why you set up rigs at the office.

----------


## redline

> $3/GJ was a lot.



The $3 had all the fees included. My floating rate with fees was around 3.20 to 3.50 so the $3 was a savings.

It has been a great deal but it ends at Christmas

----------


## suntan

All the fees? Doubtful.

Show your tits, er, bill.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> All the fees? Doubtful.
> 
> Show your tits, er, bill.



Not all fees, but it included the per GJ transaction fee. Like Enmax's floating rate is X + 99c per GJ.

----------


## ZenOps

Side note: Nine energy providers in the UK have now declared bankruptcy.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...-firms-go-bust

Not the big ones, but pretty much all the small ones got slaughtered on the one week price spike (just like Texas). Not too sure who are the big players in the UK.

----------


## ZenOps

https://www.alberta.ca/electricity-price-cap.aspx

Reminder that the 6.8 cent price cap expired on May 31.

----------


## redline

> Not all fees, but it included the per GJ transaction fee. Like Enmax's floating rate is X + 99c per GJ.



Atco has that as well... or did at the time i signed the contract... but you are correct that fee... the atco 3/3/3 deal got rid of the variable fees for a flat 3

nothing gets rid of the fixed infrastructure fee or what ever they are called etc... cause that is how the companies pay for the build out of service and their real profit margin. 

there is very little profit in the product they sell.

----------


## pheoxs

https://www.thestar.com/business/202...ls-higher.html

Seems more expectations things will get expensive this winter

----------


## ExtraSlow

For a few months it will.

----------


## R-Audi

So Atco just sent our their renewal offer for the 3/3 deal.

3 yr deal
$0.599/Kwh
$3.99/GJ
+$6.99/service/month

How does that compare to Enmax?

----------


## Disoblige

> So Atco just sent our their renewal offer for the 3/3 deal.
> 
> 3 yr deal
> $0.599/Kwh
> $3.99/GJ
> +$6.99/service/month
> 
> How does that compare to Enmax?



https://www.enmax.com/home/electrici...iAAEgKnN_D_BwE

ENMAX is more, so if one is with ENMAX right now, depending on the deal you got for electricity, not worth to switch over $0.10 savings on gas. I'm $0.599/kWh and $4.09/GJ with ENMAX.
And the other benefit with ATCO might be the 15 days notice to switch vs. 30 days with ENMAX.

I assume all the fixed costs between ATCO and ENMAX are the same, which is the bulk of the costs anyways. I am just uncertain about the admin charge; I think ATCO is higher for admin charges.

So in a nutshell, if you got a renewed offer with ATCO, stick with 'em. I wonder if ATCO will offer this to new customers too..

----------


## pheoxs

ATCO seems better in all aspects, the 70 cents is a fair chunk of savings. And 20 cents per service per month service fee savings with ATCO.

----------


## kenny

> So Atco just sent our their renewal offer for the 3/3 deal.
> 
> 3 yr deal
> $0.599/Kwh
> $3.99/GJ
> +$6.99/service/month
> 
> How does that compare to Enmax?



You should call them up and ask them to give you the $3.79/GJ they offer to new customers.

----------


## R-Audi

> You should call them up and ask them to give you the $3.79/GJ they offer to new customers.



I just noticed that online! I was bored at work so actually went through my past two years useage for the 'special rate' vs 'website rate' The special rate would be ~$85.00 cheaper per year for me due to my electricty useage. I would pay ~$115 less in electrical cost, but $27.00 more in gas.

Im going to see if they will do the $3.79 for gas and the $0.0599 for electricity.


UPDATE: You cant mix plans. Its one or the other, and if you cant cancel part of the plan, it has to be the entire thing. (Thinking id sign up and then give 15 days notice on the gas and then lock it back in at tht other rate)

----------


## sabad66

> So Atco just sent our their renewal offer for the 3/3 deal.
> 
> 3 yr deal
> $0.599/Kwh
> $3.99/GJ
> +$6.99/service/month
> 
> How does that compare to Enmax?



Did you get that in the mail or online? Seems like a decent enough deal especially if you use a lot of electricity like my household.

----------


## cyra1ax

5.99c/kwh is what I'm getting with Enmax for a loyalty rate. 

I pulled the trigger, went from Direct Energy Regulated rate for Natgas to a locked in 1 year with [email protected]$3.79/GJ. Looks to be zero early cancellation fees as long as you give them appropriate notice. Plan is to bail in the spring back to the regulated rate.
The $6.99 admin fee is a flat rate, vs the Enmax being $0.99/GJ. I'm usually over 7GJ through November through April so I think the Atco fee comes out a tiny bit cheaper too.

----------


## R-Audi

> Did you get that in the mail or online? Seems like a decent enough deal especially if you use a lot of electricity like my household.



This was a special renewal for current 3/3 customers as that deal expires in November.

----------


## sabad66

> This was a special renewal for current 3/3 customers as that deal expires in November.



Yeah I’m on the 3 for all deal but haven’t seen anything for a renewal yet. Checked my mail yesterday too. 

I signed up in mid December 2018 tho so maybe I’ll get it a bit closer to December.

----------


## Tik-Tok

If you login to ATCO, it'll come up.

----------


## redline

Do you think they will do a better deal ?, when I login I see the atco deal

----------


## sabad66

> If you login to ATCO, it'll come up.



I see it now, thx for the tip. Nice thing is that if you accept the deal now it doesn’t start until your contract is up. 

I’ll have to calculate against enmax based on my last year of use but I’m thinking it’s going to be the winner for my situation

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Do you think they will do a better deal ?, when I login I see the atco deal



Enmax might make a competitive deal, but I doubt ATCO will do any better.

----------


## B69

The ATCO deal looks good but I wonder about being locked into that rate for gas for 3 years. I do like the flexibility of enmax that once winter is over and rates decrease to go back to floating!

----------


## cyra1ax

You can bail from Atco back to Enmax at any time without fees, just have to give them 15 days heads up.

----------


## dj_rice

Can yall gurus take a look and see if I should switch to fixed? Both are on floating currently. I imagine switch just gas to fixed for the winter months? Just myself in this house so usage is very little

My fixed rates would be

----------


## Disoblige

$4.74/GJ is greater than $4.09/GJ, and 11 cents/kWh is greater than 6.89 cents/kWh. 

Go haggle a fixed electricity rate and stay fixed.
Switch to fixed gas and change back to floating in the spring by giving 30 days notice. Or take your chances and leave it floating.

----------


## redline

Atco deal is better .

----------


## mr2mike

Currently NG prices look aggressive!

https://www.gasalberta.com/gas-market/market-prices

----------


## ExtraSlow

You guys remember when natural gas was double digits? Fuck that was good.

----------


## suntan

It saved Alberta. Oil tanked, NG was high.

----------


## mr2mike

> You guys remember when natural gas was double digits? Fuck that was good.



I barely do. Got on right as it crashed.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Great, now you guys have me thinking about this again. Hmmmmm.

----------


## Disoblige

No no leave it as floating. I want to see what happens. lol

----------


## mr2mike

> No no leave it as floating. I want to see what happens. lol



His "Craft room" would turn into a meat locker.

----------


## redline

> Great, now you guys have me thinking about this again. Hmmmmm.



Are you not mr fixed rates are for suckers ?

- - - Updated - - -




> His "Craft room" would turn into a meat locker.



Mgd is not craft …

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Are you not mr fixed rates are for suckers ?



 that's my alt.

----------


## ZenOps

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/enmax-ann...-ceo-1.5637930

CEO of Enmax quit on 18 months on no reason given. Crazyness has hit a new level.

----------


## Kjonus

Makes you wonder if it had anything to do with the new mayor as she'll sit on the board of directors for Enmax and her comments just after she was elected.

----------


## visualk

Has anyone signed up with Ambit Energy? Their rates seem way better than what ENMAX is offering me under a loyalty rate. 
Here is a link to their site https://www.ambitenergycanada.ca/

----------


## cyra1ax

> Has anyone signed up with Ambit Energy? Their rates seem way better than what ENMAX is offering me under a loyalty rate. 
> Here is a link to their site https://www.ambitenergycanada.ca/



They're an MLM.

----------


## visualk

Check the Canadian site

----------


## ExtraSlow

Not interested in the various scammer resellers. Atco or Enmax is all I would consider. Atco rates on the website seem worse then Enmax, so guess I'm still stick deciding to renew early to a fixed/fixed plan with enmax, or leaving gas floating through the winter. 

My current plan is fixed electricity at 5.79c until June 2022, and floating gas. I'd need to renew and lock in a new electricity rate to have the option of fixed gas rates. 
I think locking in a higher electricity rate (6.69c), just to get a fixed gas rate, is a borderline deal for me.

----------


## zechs

I've been floating the entire time I've owned real estate.

Locked in at 6.89c/kwh and $3.79/gj . At the acreage distribution fees are higher than gas costs except for Jan/Feb, so will be interesting to see the effect it has.

I doubt I will see any meaningful savings, but considering floating electricity was at 12c/kwh in Aug/Sept, it may make a difference.

----------


## ExtraSlow

You guys talked me into it locked in for a new three year term on both natural gas and electricity through easymax. My alts will be unimpressed.

----------


## vengie

Just locked in on gas. 

Locked rate is already cheaper than floating by $0.20/GJ and we haven't even hit winter

----------


## Disoblige

Better late than never. Good job to those who switched.

Cue the idiots who bitch about their utility bills in December/January and act like switching retailers is going to make a difference  :ROFL!:

----------


## redline

> You guys talked me into it locked in for a new three year term on both natural gas and electricity through easymax. My alts will be unimpressed.



Welcome to the suckers club ….

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

I don't think anyone wins when we end up measuring dicks on the coldest day of the year!

----------


## dj_rice

Joined the fixed gas gang with yall $4.09. 

Left electricity floating.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Welcome to the suckers club ….



I'm willing to be proven wrong. I've been wrong before.

- - - Updated - - -




> Joined the fixed gas gang with yall $4.09. 
> 
> Left electricity floating.



I was thinking about it and electricity is the scariest one to me.

----------


## killramos

> I'm willing to be proven wrong. I've been wrong before.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> I was thinking about it and electricity is the scariest one to me.



Lots of nasty hidden things that could come to the electricity market rates. At least NG is pegged on AECO.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Electrcity needs to go up huge in the next few years one way or the other. That's my theory.

----------


## 2Legit2Quit

Anyone call into enmax to see if you can get a better fixed rate of $4.09?

----------


## killramos

4.08. Just for you, gotta keep that deal to yourself.

----------


## Disoblige

> Anyone call into enmax to see if you can get a better fixed rate of $4.09?



No, not at this point in the game. They weren't in budging in August, doubt they will now.

----------


## 2Legit2Quit

Figured as much but wasn't sure if they offered folks a legacy customer discount like they do for electricity

----------


## redline

> Electrcity needs to go up huge in the next few years one way or the other. That's my theory.



If people start buying EVs, governments need to replace gas tax with something

----------


## Darkane

I’m locked at 5.79 and 4.09. Hoping to save TENS of dollars.

----------


## dj_rice

Damn I'm locked in for 5 years  :Frown:  

And I havent been paying much attention to my bills but my electricity has been 9-13 cents for many many months. Time to switch to fixed as well

----------


## zechs

> Damn I'm locked in for 5 years  
> 
> And I havent been paying much attention to my bills but my electricity has been 9-13 cents for many many months. Time to switch to fixed as well



I think ES is right about electricity being the one to worry about as well. Apparently Alberta's peak power useage occurs during our two-four week cold snap we get in Jan/Feb every year, only was beaten by the heat wave this summer.

So I can definitely see the price rocketing. Are we doing ok on generating capacity nowadays with all the coal plants shutdown?

----------


## Disoblige

> Damn I'm locked in for 5 years  
> 
> And I havent been paying much attention to my bills but my electricity has been 9-13 cents for many many months. Time to switch to fixed as well



No such thing as "locked in" with utilities for ATCO and ENMAX. Switch and choose what you want in your favor with the applicable notice times (15/30 days respectively).

----------


## Tik-Tok

> So I can definitely see the price rocketing. Are we doing ok on generating capacity nowadays with all the coal plants shutdown?



The power stations will be shocked to find out their coal units have stopped running.

----------


## ExtraSlow

As usual Zechs is misinformed. Some of the coal plans have converted to natural gas, and some others are planned to convert or shut down. The main thing that has done, and will do, is increase the cost of electricity, since coal is the cheapest power we make. Natural Gas is mostly replacing the coal for baseload power. 

AESO publishes a nearly-real-time supply and demand report on Alberta's power. It's fascinating. 
http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market...DReportServlet

----------


## cyra1ax

> No such thing as "locked in" with utilities for ATCO and ENMAX. Switch and choose what you want in your favor with the applicable notice times (15/30 days respectively).



Do you know if they notify when you put in the transfer request? Or do you have to tell your current provider when you've decided to leave?

----------


## suntan

> As usual Zechs is misinformed. Some of the coal plans have converted to natural gas, and some others are planned to convert or shut down. The main thing that has done, and will do, is increase the cost of electricity, since coal is the cheapest power we make. Natural Gas is mostly replacing the coal for baseload power. 
> 
> AESO publishes a nearly-real-time supply and demand report on Alberta's power. It's fascinating. 
> http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market...DReportServlet



If the interchange numbers are negative does that mean we're providing power to others?

----------


## pheoxs

> If the interchange numbers are negative does that mean we're providing power to others?



I believe negative interchange means we will power from others.

Alberta Total Net Generation	9682
Net Actual Interchange	-815
Alberta Internal Load (AIL)	10497

----------


## bjstare

> If the interchange numbers are negative does that mean we're providing power to others?



A cursory look makes me think the opposite. 

Right now, total net generation (9668) is less than internal load (10507), interchange is the delta (-839), or deficit in this example.

----------


## suntan

Thanks guys. I guess I should marthing once in a while.

----------


## dj_rice

> No such thing as "locked in" with utilities for ATCO and ENMAX. Switch and choose what you want in your favor with the applicable notice times (15/30 days respectively).



Sorry I mean the price is locked in for a 5 year term. But I should of changed my electricity at the same time, now gotta wait end of month for it to kick in. 

Thanks for your help on steering me to some savings

Speaking of, one of the co-workers is signed up with Ambit. Are they legit? They got some good prices compared to what I'm paying currently. Whats the catch

----------


## suntan

Apparently they send you some household cleaners you have to sell to your friends.

----------


## ZenOps

Enmax and Atco raise lock in rates:

https://energy.atco.com/en-ca/home-e...rgy-plans.html

https://www.enmax.com/home/electrici...l-gas/easymax?

Enmax 5 year still very reasonable. Expecting some sort of recovery?

----------


## ZenOps

https://www.enmax.com/home/rro/regulated-rates

15.8 cents. What I would consider *normal* for most of the US with exception of Hawaii. Thank you to the floaters out there.

----------


## pheoxs

I told my dad to lock in back in the fall but he kept saying variable is always better. Only way I convinced him was saying how about you lock in and if I'm wrong I'll buy you a case of beer every month for next year. He sent a screenshot of 6.99 cents. He's sad for no beer but quite thankful with how much rates have spiked up now.

----------


## dj_rice

Thanks to everyone in this thread, I locked in when yall told me too. But my bills havent really lowered LOL

----------


## ExtraSlow

Bills are never going down for energy. The best you can do is slow the rate of increase.

* never means ~20 years.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

My enmax bills in the new place have been pleasantly low, and we haven’t even gotten our new windows installed yet.

----------


## Kjonus

> Bills are never going down for energy. The best you can do is slow the rate of increase.
> 
> * never means ~20 years.



Energy demands are only going to continue to increase for the foreseeable future. With the push for EVs and lost of revenue from gasoline tax governments will need to make up that lost from somewhere.

----------


## ExtraSlow

In a general sense, standard of living is directly correlated with energy use. And people never voluntarily reduce their standard of living. So energy use will go up everywhere forever. 

Now the source of that energy can change.

----------


## 2Legit2Quit

Jesus almost 16 cents, that's nuts. RIP floaters

----------


## mr2mike

> Energy demands are only going to continue to increase for the foreseeable future. With the push for EVs and lost of revenue from gasoline tax governments will need to make up that lost from somewhere.



Basically next counter cyclical move is buying a gas dryer and range.

----------


## colsankey

Gas and electric are getting a bit out of hand, is there a generally "its always better" option for providers atm or does it depend on actual usage.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Have you tried going back in time and watching the advice in this thread?

----------


## Disoblige

The smart people here are the ones who are able to pivot and admit when change is needed. Or be stubborn and pay your floating rate. I'll enjoy my "free" piss beer.

----------


## pheoxs

Does electricity spiking make solar any more viable here? Or does the solar program that buysback in the summer already have a premium rate that doesn't change?

----------


## mr2mike

How much heat is needed to keep the energy storage viable?

----------


## ZenOps

Natgas is better than solar. If you happen to live on a farm using propane, its debateable.

What is really need for offgrid is a PV solar battery with autodump to heat. Meaning that the minute your batteries are all topped off, it switches toward some sort of slow release house heating (for at least six months of the year) and instant house cooling for two months.

----------


## killramos

I’m guessing most of the existing or soon to come on solar is on a fixed price agreement for a long while to secure the project financing.

----------


## Kloubek

> Jesus almost 16 cents, that's nuts. RIP floaters



That really is insane. Even over the last 5 months or so it was in double digits. 

This thread prompted me to take a look at my services, just to make sure I was locked in. And yes, luckily I am at less than 5 cents per kwh. 

I also noticed gas has doubled over the last year and a half as well. 

Good times.

----------


## benyl

> Does electricity spiking make solar any more viable here? Or does the solar program that buysback in the summer already have a premium rate that doesn't change?



The research I have done works out like this:

Typically with a 3rd party. Not enmax or ATCO.

Summer, you produce and consume at $0.25 per kwh. Then you switch to a winter rate around $0.07 per kwh. The credits you earn over the summer should get you through the winter.

----------


## mr2mike

We're all setup for ev cars, eh? 

*The Alberta Energy Services Operator reports the province set a new record for energy usage Monday night - 11,939 megawatts or 200 mega watts higher than the previous record.

"That's like adding a city the size of Medicine Hat or Red Deer to the provincial power system," said AESO spokesperson Mike Deising.

There's still some capacity to spare, but AESO is asking people to limit their use between four and eight p.m. - put off doing the laundry,and turn out extra lights.

The energy operator also warns that running too close to capacity can lead to problems. The cold can cause some supplemental power sources to fail.
*

----------


## ExtraSlow

@killramos
, 4-8 PM apparently the worst time? 

Total energy usage will go nowhere but up either way. Need some significant new generation that can release power during peak times. I like SMR's, but solar plus storage works too I suspect.

----------


## killramos

Storage is Uber green right?

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Storage is Uber green right?



That's what I hear. I don't know anything.

----------


## mr2mike

Uber yellow is collecting heat from your piss?

----------


## dirtsniffer

so which energy companies should we be investing in?

----------


## ExtraSlow

> so which energy companies should we be investing in?



Yes

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

I invested in the non-fungible ones. Them.

----------


## cidley69

If currently on Enmax fixed for electricity, at a better rate than posted fixed term rates, is it possible to get current rate extended for new term? Or when current term expires the rate changes to posted rate?

----------


## nzwasp

Has anyone fixed their gas rate?

----------


## firebane

> Has anyone fixed their gas rate?



3 yr fixed electricity @ 6.39¢/kWh 
3 yr fixed gas @ $3.79/GJ 

Not sure how we got into this.. but its been a life saver with last summer heat and the December snap. Looking at floating electricity it was like 15c

----------


## cidley69

> Has anyone fixed their gas rate?



I just fixed my gas rate at $4.09. I looked back at last year of billing, and this rate would have been cheaper than variable for about 6-7 months, but the months that this GJ rate is better, is also the higher usage months.

----------


## benyl

I did the same back in October. Will take it off is a month or two.

----------


## ExtraSlow

I use so little gas in warm months that I don't care what the price is in the summer. But gas also has a more of a ceiling.

----------


## nzwasp

> I use so little gas in warm months that I don't care what the price is in the summer. But gas also has a more of a ceiling.



Do you shower?

----------


## ExtraSlow

It doesn't make a dent in consumption. Enmax tracks this stuff for ya.

----------


## benyl

yeah, I shower twice a day sometimes in the summer. Makes no difference.

----------


## killramos

You guys must have small barbeques

----------


## cyra1ax

No we just like supporting Strickland Propane.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> No we just like supporting Strickland Propane.



"Taste the meat, not the heat!"(TM)

----------


## Tik-Tok

What are you guys, students or something? I just feel like I'm really helping the environment by using a lot of NG to help fund our anti-carbon programs.

----------


## ExtraSlow

High energy use is directly correlated with quality of life, so bigger is better in every case.

----------


## pheoxs

Mine went up to 10.7 GJ but thats only Oct 28 - Nov 26th so far. Gonna hurt when I see the deep freeze in Dec numbers.

----------


## Tik-Tok

My December is grossly inflated because of the read dates for the end of my ATCO contract. It was 41 days worth. I still use a lot of gas though, heating a big detached garage with an oversized furnace isn't cheap.

----------


## nzwasp

> What are you guys, students or something? I just feel like I'm really helping the environment by using a lot of NG to help fund our anti-carbon programs.
> 
> Attachment 103985



I imagine the inside of your house is like a dry sauna.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> I imagine the inside of your house is like a dry sauna.



It's my garage. I like to see zero moisture on the floor when I leave the house in the morning.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

My enmax bill was surprisingly low for how cold it’s been. Our furnace runs almost 24/7 when it’s below -15.

----------


## nzwasp

My last bill was $580

----------


## 2Legit2Quit

My enmax bill is always like a month behind on gas used, won't see Decembers use until next months bill...anticipating a whopper

----------


## sabad66

My $3 fixed gas contract expired dec 31 but my new fixed rate is $4. Next bill is gonna suck balls with the double whammy of extreme cold and 33% higher rate. Thank god raises and bonuses are back.

----------


## sabad66

> My $3 fixed gas contract expired dec 31 but my new fixed rate is $4. Next bill is gonna suck balls with the double whammy of extreme cold and 33% higher rate. Thank god raises and bonuses are back.



Nov15-dec15 gas and electric bill (no water/waste) = 361
Dec15-jan15 = 615

Damn that cold snap really did a number on the gas usage. Thankfully it was at least fixed at 3.99…not even sure what the variable rate was but I imagine my bill would have been closer to $1000 if I was on variable

----------


## pheoxs

Variable gas hasn't really shot up like electricity has. Variable would only add ~0.50 cents or maybe 1$ per GJ. Pretty much a wash with all the fees bundled in.

----------


## sabad66

Ah ok, so I only really saved $22.50-$45 with my 45GJ usage being on fixed gas. Better than nothing I guess.

----------


## dj_rice

This months bill has only electricity for me. Enmax never billed me anything for gas? What gives or they going to slam me 2 months on the next bill

----------


## suntan

Pepper your angus.

They once estimated my electricity usage for a whole fucking year, I got a huge credit once they bothered to come out and check. Thanks Enmax.

----------


## 2020

> My last bill was $580



Ouch, you must have a big place. My gas/elec/sewer/water bill was $404 and I think that’s high.

----------


## bjstare

> Ouch, you must have a big place. My gas/elec/sewer/water bill was $404 and I think that’s high.



It's more likely they have some weird habits with heating or cooling, or an inefficient house. Or maybe the MIL likes to run the hot water for 3hr in a row to turn the bathroom into a sauna every day.

----------


## ZenOps

16.52 cents per kwh.

https://www.enmax.com/home/rro/regulated-rates

----------


## ExtraSlow

Good month to not use electricity for heat!

----------


## FraserB

Community Facebook page is a mess, apparently people don't understand their bills are usage based and that cold weather means more usage. Or that their furnace uses electricity as well as gas.

----------


## mr2mike

> Ouch, you must have a big place. My gas/elec/sewer/water bill was $404 and I think that’s high.



Mine was $374.
Can confirm, I live in squalor while watching The Caprio movies on repeat.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Community Facebook pages should be banned. Zero reason to ever visit those.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Community Facebook page is a mess, apparently people don't understand their bills are usage based and that cold weather means more usage. Or that their furnace uses electricity as well as gas.



This should be factored into the "some Boomers think we're richer" thread.

There has never been a time in recorded human history where people who would medically qualify as "functionally retarded" have amassed this level of money. 

"Oh your IQ is 81? Here's a new car and a connection to a natural gas line that you will never comprehend!"

----------


## pheoxs

> Pepper your angus.
> 
> They once estimated my electricity usage for a whole fucking year, I got a huge credit once they bothered to come out and check. Thanks Enmax.



This was me last month. Got a 1600kwh correction because they’d been estimating for almost a year then came and replaced my meter with a new one

----------


## Darkane

Just gas usage for me was 35GJ, $332. 

Locked in at 4.09, and $73.65 in carbon taxes. 

Roughly 29% increase in gas bill just from carbon tax. That doesn’t seem right. 

Fuck off.

----------


## vengie

> "_Oh your IQ is 81?_ Here's a new car and a connection to a natural gas line that you will never comprehend!"



Someone is feeling generous this morning.


Actual energy used $170.09 - Bill $525.03 

$354.94 in taxes and fees. I know this is normal, but damn we get hosed.

----------


## FraserB

> Someone is feeling generous this morning.
> 
> 
> Actual energy used $170.09 - Bill $525.03 
> 
> $354.94 in taxes and fees. I know this is normal, but damn we get hosed.



This problem has been created because people claimed they wanted to see all the broken down charges because of "transparency", so they show the fees instead of just a single line value.

Turns out people didn't want transparency, they just don't want to pay fees because they can't be bothered to understand what they are there for. 

This won't apply to anyone on here, but it's certainly applicable to the people who don't open their bill and just complain about the total line

----------


## vengie

> This problem has been created because people claimed they wanted to see all the broken down charges because of "transparency", so they show the fees instead of just a single line value.
> 
> Turns out people didn't want transparency, they just don't want to pay fees because they can't be bothered to understand what they are there for. 
> 
> This won't apply to anyone on here, but it's certainly applicable to the people who don't open their bill and just complain about the total line



Definitely agree.

The only one that aggravates me is nearly 20% of gas bill is Carbon Tax.
Everything else is the cost of doing business.

----------


## pheoxs

> Just gas usage for me was 35GJ, $332. 
> 
> Locked in at 4.09, and $73.65 in carbon taxes. 
> 
> Roughly 29% increase in gas bill just from carbon tax. That doesn’t seem right. 
> 
> Fuck off.



Carbon tax is currently 50$ per tonne and next year it starts increasing at 15$ per tonne until 170$ per tonne in 2030. So if you think that's bad just wait until 2030 when your carbon tax would be 250$ on that current bill.

Fuck.




> This won't apply to anyone on here, but it's certainly applicable to the people who don't open their bill and just complain about the total line



This was my dad with his cell bill. So upset its 400$ per month.

Open it up: 80$/month per plan x 2, plus 60$ per month device cost x 2 (iphone 12 max largest storage), plus 75 for their home internet hub, plus some US roaming charges. Le sigh. But we did get it down to <250 so I guess worth complaining.

----------


## suntan

By then we'll all be using electric furnaces.

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

> This problem has been created because people claimed they wanted to see all the broken down charges because of "transparency", so they show the fees instead of just a single line value.
> 
> Turns out people didn't want transparency, they just don't want to pay fees because they can't be bothered to understand what they are there for. 
> 
> This won't apply to anyone on here, but it's certainly applicable to the people who don't open their bill and just complain about the total line



I mean, it sort of makes sense, but I hate that you still get charged all the fees with no usage. We had an electric water tank at my last place, so in the summer, we'd just shut off the furnace. We'd still regularly pay $90-$100 for gas, with 0GJ usage on the bill.

----------


## Darkane

> Carbon tax is currently 50$ per tonne and next year it starts increasing at 15$ per tonne until 170$ per tonne in 2030. So if you think that's bad just wait until 2030 when your carbon tax would be 250$ on that current bill.
> 
> Fuck.
> 
> 
> 
> This was my dad with his cell bill. So upset its 400$ per month.
> 
> Open it up: 80$/month per plan x 2, plus 60$ per month device cost x 2 (iphone 12 max largest storage), plus 75 for their home internet hub, plus some US roaming charges. Le sigh. But we did get it down to <250 so I guess worth complaining.



You make me sad.

----------


## pheoxs

Someone's salty as fuck over ... me pointing out the carbon tax schedule? 

Are facts just that scary to you? ooOOooOooooOOooOOOoo words.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

My bill was $354 for gas and electric this month. 1978 build house and you can see daylight in the window frame corners, furnace runs about 80% of the time below -15° C.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> My bill was $354 for gas and electric this month. 1978 build house and you can see daylight in the window frame corners, furnace runs about 80% of the time below -15° C.



$575 for us, but again, because our gas bill was for over 40 days and not just a month.

----------


## mr2mike

> By then we'll all be using electric furnaces.



I plan to create friction across my skin to stay warm. But then they catch me on the other side with (baby) oil taxes.

----------


## vengie

It might be cheaper to start burning whales again

----------


## ExtraSlow

Need a combined-cycle solar-gas-hybrid-electricity-bitcoin-heat device.

----------


## arcticcat522

$475 at our place. 1300sqft bungalow

----------


## littledan

> Just gas usage for me was 35GJ, $332. 
> 
> Locked in at 4.09, and $73.65 in carbon taxes. 
> 
> Roughly 29% increase in gas bill just from carbon tax. That doesnt seem right. 
> 
> Fuck off.



I was wondering why my bill jumped $100 from last jan despite being locked in at almost the same rate. Fucken carbon taxes what garbage.

So what can the average albertan do between now and 2030 to avoid having to pay $1000 utility bills each month?

----------


## bjstare

> I was wondering why my bill jumped $100 from last jan despite being locked in at almost the same rate. Fucken carbon taxes what garbage.
> 
> So what can the average albertan do between now and 2030 to avoid having to pay $1000 utility bills each month?



Move to the USA.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

I'm no graduate from the University of Science, but I do dabble with a calculator, on occasion. I struggle with the Carbon Tax on account a if I burn $60 worth of natural gas in a month to heat my house, the carbon tax adds almost precisely 100% to that. (That's another $60 for those trying to keep score.)
If in that same month I burn roughly $55 worth of gasoline to go throw paint on a statue or carry my used oil to a storm sewer in Aspen, I pay an additional $5 in carbon tax as I think it's roughly 9¢/L these days? Want to call it 10%? That's fine. But it sure as fuck isn't 100%.

So I took the cleanest burning hydrocarbon we have readily available, did something important with it like not freeze the family to death, and I pay about a 100% penalty.
Take an equivalent $-value of filthy, Chemical-Ali gasoline and burn it to do something trivial & frivolous and I get penalized about 10%.

The last time I told someone this, he looked at me like I was dumb. But when he went out for lunch, I rubbed the entire lip of his coffee cup on my grundel while whispering "here's some carbon for your tax".

----------


## littledan

They should introduce a dildo tax so trudeau can understand what it feels like to pay tax on a necessity of life

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> They should introduce a dildo tax so trudeau can understand what it feels like to pay tax on a necessity of life



He writes those off...

----------


## ZenOps

Solar every year becomes more doable. If they can squeeze out 600 watts from a Quantum dot enhanced two square meter solar panel, as little as six panels can go a long way to running common items, and even providing residual heat in the winter and a little A/C in the summer.

https://www.jayman.com/solar/ I believe Jayman puts at least six solar panels on every new installation since 2019.

----------


## visualk

What are the best rates beyonders have locked into? I am still on floating gas and electricity but I still get EasyMax rewards and pay $0.47 Gj transaction fee for Natural Gas; if I lock in either I will lose my easy max rewards and have to pay $0.99 Gj transaction fee with the condition that it can go up

----------


## dj_rice

> What are the best rates beyonders have locked into? I am still on floating gas and electricity but I still get EasyMax rewards and pay $0.47 Gj transaction fee for Natural Gas; if I lock in either I will lose my easy max rewards and have to pay $0.99 Gj transaction fee with the condition that it can go up



Did you not have the 3 options? There was an option you still keep your EasyMax rewards but the rates are locked in.

----------


## ZenOps

Still getting the $100 back per year on fixed electricity and gas. Don't know if you only go halvsies (electricity fixed, natgas float)

Jan bill $213. Feb bill $275.

Yup, definitely up on carbon tax.

----------


## Seks

Just got an enmax postal mail to renew my electricity (fixed)

currently 6.59
new 7.89 (7.49 if renew before apr 9)

----------


## mr2mike

This Kenny kash is regardless if you locked in or not, right?
I mean I'm locked and winning but double winning is nicer.

----------


## mr2mike

279 kwh
9.7 GJ
9.0 m3
Bill is just over $300.
Fixed @$4.09/GJ and $0.069\kwh

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

389 kWh
11.63 GJ
14.0 m3 
$24.49 carbon tax
$359.29 total.

----------


## tha_bandit

are these detached houses? such low kWh, mines around 700

----------


## Tik-Tok

Why do you guys hate Alberta? Use moar energy please.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> are these detached houses? such low kWh, mines around 700



Detached 1978 build in Thorncliffe with a detached heated garage too.

----------


## killramos

Is this a game?

1,063 kWh
13.78 GJ
28.97 Carbon Tax
$340.51 not including city services.

Seems like kindof a wack comparison, my electricity is billed Jan 17 to Feb 13 and Gas Jan 29 to Feb 24.

----------


## mr2mike

> Detached 1978 build in Thorncliffe with a detached heated garage too.



Detatched 1963 build.
Electric stove and dryer.

I agree with Killramos and Enmax basically keeps every variable moving on your bill so it's impossible to really nail anything down.

Best money saver is sub-panel off your neighbour meter and pay them half. Even if you use less than them, you're probably saving a ton on service fees.
I'm sure someone is daily chaining their houses.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Detatched 1963 build.
> Electric stove and dryer.
> 
> I agree with Killramos and Enmax basically keeps every variable moving on your bill so it's impossible to really nail anything down.
> 
> Best money saver is sub-panel off your neighbour meter and pay them half. Even if you use less than them, you're probably saving a ton on service fees.
> I'm sure someone is daily chaining their houses.



I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.



interdasted.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Just a note for anyone who's like me and uses most of thier natural gas in the winter. Lock in now, she ain't going down for a few years.

----------


## Kloubek

> Just a note for anyone who's like me and uses most of thier natural gas in the winter. Lock in now, she ain't going down for a few years.



Done, @ 4.09 cents.

----------


## phreezee

Ok, I'll take your sage advice.

----------


## Tik-Tok

I've heard trying to beat them seems like a fools errand.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> I've heard trying to beat them seems like a fools errand.



There is an asymmetrical amount of upside and downside in this bet for most homeowners. Quite different than industrial consumers, or the mortgage situation.

----------


## bigbadboss101

Currently have variable gas rate and fixed electricity. Renewal in August and the new rate is quite a bit higher. When it auto renews it will go to the new rate? Have you phoned in to negotiate?

----------


## cidley69

> Currently have variable gas rate and fixed electricity. Renewal in August and the new rate is quite a bit higher. When it auto renews it will go to the new rate? Have you phoned in to negotiate?



I'm in the exact same boat, and called to ask if they can do anything better than the posted rates, was told a big NO, no loyalty or other incentive plans available, and the web posted rates is the only option at this time.

If anyone is able to secure a better deal, please post on here how you did it.

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

There's zero incentive for them to offer better rates, we have no negotiating power.

----------


## mr2mike

Thought I would cancel fixed by Apr.
Given what's happening... That didn't happen.
No regrats.

----------


## ExtraSlow

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...e-direction-up

Energy prices going nowhere but up kiddies.

----------


## Disoblige

This is my first year where everything is fixed for energy for me.

----------


## dj_rice

I just had my central air installed. Does that mean I can't have it running 24/7 anymore?

----------


## mr2mike

> This is my first year where everything is fixed for energy for me.



Me too and a bunch of people I talk to are the same. Never thought about going fixed until last fall.

----------


## vengie

> Me too and a bunch of people I talk to are the same. Never thought about going fixed until last fall.



Very happy I went fixed in September

----------


## cidley69

Anyone compared the all in rates for Atco vs Enmax?

I just signed up for a new Enmax 5 year term, at these rates:

Energy Plan*:	
EasyMax: 9.29¢/kWh 5-Year Fixed Electricity
EasyMax: $5.79/GJ 5-Year Fixed Natural Gas
*Delivery, other charges, taxes, and an Administration Fee of an average of $7.10 per site, per month, for each of electricity and natural gas, are extra.


Atco is advertising these rates, which sound better:

Electricity
$0.0849/kWh
+ $6.99 per service per month
Natural Gas
$4.99/GJ
+ $6.99 per service per month

Are there some other fees/service charges that inflate the Atco price to a point where its more expensive than Enmax?

----------


## Kloubek

> Anyone compared the all in rates for Atco vs Enmax?
> 
> I just signed up for a new Enmax 5 year term, at these rates:
> 
> Energy Plan*:	
> EasyMax: 9.29¢/kWh 5-Year Fixed Electricity
> EasyMax: $5.79/GJ 5-Year Fixed Natural Gas



Wow - these are high. I'm paying 5.99 fixed for electricity, and 4.09 fixed for gas. It does say right under my rates that I have a monthly fee of $7.10 (avg) for each of electricity and gas.

----------


## msommers

What about Direct Energy instead? Fixed rates right now are bonkers

----------


## cidley69

Direct Energy has similar rates, but at least they give you a Nest thermostat:

----------


## mr2mike

At this point, would one just ride variable and let 'er buck?
No way you're hitting above the fixed rate the rest of summer and into fall/winter.
But I could be wrong.

----------


## suntan

Utilities are betting that the economy will go into recession and commodity prices will fall sooner than later.

I leave it to you if you think that is the case.

----------


## cidley69

> What about Direct Energy instead? Fixed rates right now are bonkers



Anyone currently on Direct Energy that can provide real life example of how much the monthly fees are?

For an Enmax example:

----------


## Tik-Tok

Not Direct Energy, but here's ATCO for comparison.

----------


## suntan

Hmm, looks like delivery charges are a bit less with Atco?

----------


## zechs

> Utilities are betting that the economy will go into recession and commodity prices will fall sooner than later.
> 
> I leave it to you if you think that is the case.



The thing is there is a zero bound for how low the rates can drop (the cost to produce/distribute the product) but the upper bound is limitless. Locking in at low rates of 5-6c/kwh and $4-5lgj just makes sense. The minuscle savings if the floating rate drops is nowhere remotely close to averaging out the double/triple the rates easily can and have shown to go to in a regular summer heat or winter cold.

----------


## FraserB

Can't find it on their website, but I assume that the electricity rates and natural gas rates renew independently and both don't just default to the earliest renewal? It looks like I have 3 year electric and 1 year gas (which is up for renewal in September).

----------


## msommers

Interesting read. Not that it helped me decide between floating or fixed but I'm leaning to a fixed term with ATCO because the world is a mess at the moment. 

https://energyrates.ca/why-alberta-e...n-do-about-it/

----------


## ZenOps

https://www.enmax.com/home/rro/regulated-rates

14.777 cents per kwh. But noone used much because of stupendously cool summer so far.

----------


## mr2mike

Enjoy charging your EV's.

----------


## Tik-Tok

> Enjoy charging your EV's.



Still cheaper than gasoline at this point.

----------


## mo_money2supe

Smart EV owners get solar. If anything, these high electricity prices makes the payback on solar that much quicker.

----------


## zechs

> Smart EV owners get solar. If anything, these high electricity prices makes the payback on solar that much quicker.



I've been seeing "zero percent financing" ads for solar panel installs. Don't know the details, but this definitely is the route that makes sense.

I'm assuming a tesla can't be used as a powerwall style battery backup?

----------


## BigDL

> Smart EV owners get solar. If anything, these high electricity prices makes the payback on solar that much quicker.



It helps but you still get fucked over by the delivery and other BS fees. Boss has a large solar array at his place and even when they are close to even in generation and usage they get fucked by the BS fees.

----------


## Bytem3

> I've been seeing "zero percent financing" ads for solar panel installs. Don't know the details, but this definitely is the route that makes sense.
> 
> I'm assuming a tesla can't be used as a powerwall style battery backup?



If they claim a zero cost zero percent finance rate then theyre hiding the cost somewhere else

Personally if I had 30k to spend on solar I would instead invest it especially if a recession hits

In 20 years youll be further ahead with the investment

----------


## ExtraSlow

Worthwhile listening to the "arc energy ideas podcast" from June 28. Interesting discussion on this topic. 

I think home solar WILL become a big part of the energy mix in Alberta. I predict there will be regulatory changes that make it more attractive, such as guaranteed feed-in rates, lower non-energy costs, variable costs for base or peak use etc. 

Right now you need to have a motivation above finances to really take the leap.

----------


## vengie

> Worthwhile listening to the "arc energy ideas podcast" from June 28. Interesting discussion on this topic. 
> 
> I think home solar WILL become a big part of the energy mix in Alberta. I predict there will be regulatory changes that make it more attractive, such as guaranteed feed-in rates, lower non-energy costs, variable costs for base or peak use etc. 
> 
> Right now you need to have a motivation above finances to really take the leap.



This

----------


## killramos

It certainly doesn’t seem like a technological bell curve I want to be ahead of.

If people are so sure that prices will come down and grid power will go up, I see no reason to get ahead of that while current energy costs essentially nothing.

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

I want solar, but I sure don't want to pay for it right now.
AFAIK you can't use Tesla as a powerwall battery, but you CAN use an F-150 lightning for that.

----------


## mr2mike

> If they claim a zero cost zero percent finance rate then they’re hiding the cost somewhere else
> 
> Personally if I had 30k to spend on solar I would instead invest it especially if a recession hits
> 
> In 20 years you’ll be further ahead with the investment



You still in your home in 20yrs?
Most don't even go for 25 yr shingles, let alone solar with a 2 decade payout.

----------


## suntan

Panels won't last 20 years.

----------


## zechs

> It certainly doesn’t seem like a technological bell curve I want to be ahead of.
> 
> If people are so sure that prices will come down and grid power will go up, I see no reason to get ahead of that while current energy costs essentially nothing.



That's fair, without having your house off the electrical grid, you haven't solved the real problem of obscene utility infrastructure fees.

----------


## spike98

> Panels won't last 20 years.



When i looked into it, they came with a 25 year warranty.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> I've been seeing "zero percent financing" ads for solar panel installs. Don't know the details, but this definitely is the route that makes sense.
> 
> I'm assuming a tesla can't be used as a powerwall style battery backup?



I've seen that ad before too. They craftily word it but it's not truthful. That said, on top of the Canada Greener Homes Grant ($5k grant for solar), the feds are now truly offering a $40k interest free loan option. The only caveat is it is currently only available to those who have already been approved for the grant (where I'm at right now). The next round of openings for the interest free loan to the rest of those who have not yet applied/been approved for the grant is sometime next year. I have it in an email from the gov't somewhere if you're interested in the details.




> It helps but you still get fucked over by the delivery and other BS fees. Boss has a large solar array at his place and even when they are close to even in generation and usage they get fucked by the BS fees.



That's why you use your high energy sources when the sun's generating power. It's a lifestyle change for sure but the idea is to set your dryer/dishwasher/oven/stove/EV charging/etc to operate when there's daylight. That way, you're drawing power directly off solar and not having to pay the admin/delivery/other BS fees.




> If they claim a zero cost zero percent finance rate then they’re hiding the cost somewhere else
> 
> Personally if I had 30k to spend on solar I would instead invest it especially if a recession hits
> 
> In 20 years you’ll be further ahead with the investment



See my comment above. FYI, my payback period (without even changing my lifestyle per the above note) is 11 yrs. With lifestyle change, payback for my system is calc'd at 6-7 yrs. Once paid back, it's just all earnings. So maybe you'll be further ahead with your own investments, but this is guaranteed earnings after the short payback period.




> I want solar, but I sure don't want to pay for it right now.
> AFAIK you can't use Tesla as a powerwall battery, but you CAN use an F-150 lightning for that.



Don't need battery storage. Alberta amongst many other provinces allows for micro-generation buy-back. Basically, any excess energy you make gets SOLD back to the grid. You're essentially using the grid as the battery. That's how the payback period is so quick. The only benefit with a battery storage (Tesla powerwall or F-150) is backup power if the grid ever goes down.




> You still in your home in 20yrs?
> Most don't even go for 25 yr shingles, let alone solar with a 2 decade payout.



Payback is at best 6-7 yrs; worst 11 yrs. See my comment above. And yes, I'll be in my house for at least the next 10 yrs. Kids are still young and have zero plans to move before we're empty nesters.




> Panels won't last 20 years.



All the major solar panel brands come with min 25-yr PERFORMANCE warranty maintaining at least 70% production, which covers hail damage. Most suppliers/installers provide a min. 10 yr INSTALL warranty, which covers all labour. Don't know what kind of FUD you've been subjected to; read the details yourself before you get further lied to.




Full disclosure, yes, I have solar installed at my house. It's a 33 panel system providing 13.4kW of power. It will offset 96% of my annual electricity usage. It's not yet fully operating. The ridiculous amount of rain delayed the install process, but final inspections are next Mon, July 11 so we're almost there. I'll still be tied to the grid obviously and will still have to pay for electricity during the winter months, but for 6+ months of the year, the solar should generate more electricity than I will be need, thus paying me a net positive amount due to the micro-gen credits, which is what is used to pay back the upfront costs. I honestly can't wait to stop paying with my left nut each month; I'm currently (pre-solar) paying $300+ just in electricity each month - and that's on a FIXED rate of some $0.059/kWh too. Having two Tesla's (Teslae?) obviously adds to it, which is still significantly cheaper than gas for two cars in a month. Guess I'll report back in 6-7 yrs when my solar system is fully paid off and I start actually making money from the system.

----------


## vengie

> Panels won't last 20 years.



Yes they will.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Yes they will.



"You should get that autism checked."

----------


## ZenOps

Fitty bucks showing up for the next six months.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8969064/a...bate-extended/

----------


## Brent.ff

> Fitty bucks showing up for the next six months.
> 
> https://globalnews.ca/news/8969064/a...bate-extended/



Almost one whole fee taken off!

----------


## mr2mike

Just call it an Enmax gov't kick back.

----------


## benyl

> Smart EV owners get solar. If anything, these high electricity prices makes the payback on solar that much quicker.



I assume that you are with a provider like ACE that buys at $0.26 in the summer and .08 or something in the winter. 

https://www.acenergy.ca/_files/ugd/7...3cc4e510cd.pdf

I have to wait to get solar until my house is 6 months old. Thats September. Which makes it a shitty time to build credits.

There is a guy here in Calgary that built a script that changes the rate his Tesla charges based on the production and demand at his house during the day in order to avoid drawing from the grid when there is cloud cover. 

I always thought that Connected appliances were a gimic, but now understand that it makes it a hell of a lot easier to run you washer/dryer or dishwasher when you are producing during the day. Less important now due to WFH but not everyone is that lucky.

----------


## pheoxs

> I assume that you are with a provider like ACE that buys at $0.26 in the summer and .08 or something in the winter. 
> 
> https://www.acenergy.ca/_files/ugd/7...3cc4e510cd.pdf
> 
> I have to wait to get solar until my house is 6 months old. Thats September. Which makes it a shitty time to build credits.
> 
> There is a guy here in Calgary that built a script that changes the rate his Tesla charges based on the production and demand at his house during the day in order to avoid drawing from the grid when there is cloud cover. 
> 
> I always thought that Connected appliances were a gimic, but now understand that it makes it a hell of a lot easier to run you washer/dryer or dishwasher when you are producing during the day. Less important now due to WFH but not everyone is that lucky.



 Fire up a grow up for 6 months. Get your average usage way up so you can install a bigger system so you ultimately make more on it in the long run.

also your friend makes no sense in Calgary. We dont have by the hour metering. Doesnt matter when you use power here, its all the same.

generating 2kwh during the day and consuming 2kwh during the day / 0 at night is no different than generating 2 during the day and consuming 0 during the day / 2 at night

----------


## mo_money2supe

> I assume that you are with a provider like ACE that buys at $0.26 in the summer and .08 or something in the winter. 
> 
> https://www.acenergy.ca/_files/ugd/7...3cc4e510cd.pdf



Yessir! There are a whole myriad of these "solar club" companies to choose from: https://ucahelps.alberta.ca/cost-com...turalGasUsage= These are pre-filled with my usage numbers and sorted by highest to lowest price to show the micro-gen credits.

I'm still locked onto an Enmax 3-yr contract that I've since submitted a cancellation for. Still takes 30 days to cancel. I'm currently leaning towards Foothills Energy Co-op as their Admin rates seem to be the lowest. ACE has several hidden fees on top of their high Admin fees, most notably an additional $0.010-$0.015/kWh "eco" fee. All the other micro-gen companies don't have this same fee.




> Fire up a grow up for 6 months. Get your average usage way up so you can install a bigger system so you ultimately make more on it in the long run.
> 
> also your friend makes no sense in Calgary. We don’t have by the hour metering. Doesn’t matter when you use power here, it’s all the same.
> 
> generating 2kwh during the day and consuming 2kwh during the day / 0 at night is no different than generating 2 during the day and consuming 0 during the day / 2 at night



You're correct on the grow-op thing to up your annual usage needs to install a bigger system. That or crypto mine, which probably yields a higher power (and revenue) output. But you're incorrect about the latter. If you're pulling electricity from solar during the day, you don't have to pay any of the distribution/admin/delivery/BS fees. That in itself is an easy $0.10+/kWh savings, which adds up significantly over just one year. I use anywhere from 1,000-1,800kWh/month with our two Tesla's. That's $100-$180/month in savings alone!

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

> Yessir! There are a whole myriad of these "solar club" companies to choose from: https://ucahelps.alberta.ca/cost-com...turalGasUsage= These are pre-filled with my usage numbers and sorted by highest to lowest price to show the micro-gen credits.
> 
> I'm still locked onto an Enmax 3-yr contract that I've since submitted a cancellation for. Still takes 30 days to cancel. I'm currently leaning towards Foothills Energy Co-op as their Admin rates seem to be the lowest. ACE has several hidden fees on top of their high Admin fees, most notably an additional $0.010-$0.015/kWh "eco" fee. All the other micro-gen companies don't have this same fee.
> 
> 
> 
> You're correct on the grow-op thing to up your annual usage needs to install a bigger system. That or crypto mine, which probably yields a higher power (and revenue) output. But you're incorrect about the latter. If you're pulling electricity from solar during the day, you don't have to pay any of the distribution/admin/delivery/BS fees. That in itself is an easy $0.10+/kWh savings, which adds up significantly over just one year. I use anywhere from 1,000-1,800kWh/month with our two Tesla's. That's $100-$180/month in savings alone!



Unless you're pulling from the battery at night, and not the grid, in which it doesn't matter.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Unless you're pulling from the battery at night, and not the grid, in which it doesn't matter.



 :Confused:  There's no battery to pull from. You're using the grid as your storage. What I'm saying is if you're using power as it comes straight from the solar panels, you don't have to pay all the BS fees *for that power that's used.* If you're pulling _additional_ load beyond what your solar generates from the grid OR you're drawing load from the grid at night/cloudy days, then yes, you still have to pay the BS fees. That's what I was saying a few posts back. If you change your usage patterns by using all the heavy draw items when solar is generating, you can pay off the panels that much quicker 'cause you save on all the BS fees.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Ah, here a lot of the fees are not per kw, but per house. So in that setup there's no fee benefit.

----------


## mo_money2supe

> Ah, here a lot of the fees are not per kw, but per house. So in that setup there's no fee benefit.



Yeah, you're right. Not ALL of the fees are fixed. It's only the variable fees based on usage that one can save money on. Still adds up sizeably over a year though.

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

Gotcha. I was assuming some sort of powerwall setup, where it would only feed back into the grid when the batteries are topped off.

----------


## mr2mike

July 2022

----------


## killramos

9.29 is probably still a bargain

----------


## ExtraSlow

17c in NE US

----------


## ZenOps

17.341¢ this month.

https://www.enmax.com/home/rro/regulated-rates

Great holy jeebus, and putin hasn't even fully cut off natgas yet.

----------


## pheoxs

Fixed is life but dammit it's going to be scary in 2 years when my fixed rate expired and gotta renew. Guess that'll be the push for solar. 

Some regret not taking the 5 year fixed instead of 3 years at the time.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Fixed is life but dammit it's going to be scary in 2 years when my fixed rate expired and gotta renew. Guess that'll be the push for solar. 
> 
> Some regret not taking the 5 year fixed instead of 3 years at the time.



Same, picked the three year fixed in September 2021, wish I’d gone five.

----------


## Ekliptix

^ditto. I'm fixed at $.0669/kwh and $4.09/GJ, ends Aug 2024. A lot can happen with pricing over 3 years, but I can't imagine it getting cheaper.

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

> ^ditto. I'm fixed at $.0669/kwh and $4.09/GJ, ends Aug 2024. A lot can happen with pricing over 3 years, but I can't imagine it getting cheaper.



I'm at 5yr fixed, $0.0599/kWh and $4.09/GJ, that expires May 2024, and I'm terrified of where prices will be at.

----------


## bjstare

> I'm at 5yr fixed, $0.0599/kWh and $4.09/GJ, that expires May 2024, and I'm terrified of where prices will be at.



Same, but mine's July 2024. I'll just enjoy every month of low prices between now and then.

----------


## killramos

> Same, but mine's July 2024. I'll just enjoy every month of low prices between now and then.



Then change nothing about your habits after that becuase let’s be real usage is almost a rounding error on your Enmax bill with all the extra fees.

----------


## bjstare

> Then change nothing about your habits after that becuase let’s be real usage is almost a rounding error on your Enmax bill with all the extra fees.



Change habits based on electricity prices? You must be confusing me for a poor.

----------


## kenny

Got all confused seeing the "fixed for life" comment above, then realized this isn't the mortgage thread haha

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

> Got all confused seeing the "fixed for life" comment above, then realized this isn't the mortgage thread haha



I have a 5yr fixed mortgage too

----------


## benyl

> Then change nothing about your habits after that becuase lets be real usage is almost a rounding error on your Enmax bill with all the extra fees.



The more you use, the cheaper it gets...

----------


## ExtraSlow

And the harder you win.

----------


## killramos

> The more you use, the cheaper it gets...



Thank you for your service.

----------


## ExtraSlow

What industrial electricity cost these days? Generally more or less than residential? Do industrial users get charged different rates through the day? 

Helping a friend set up a shop that has this equipment :


Wouldn't run 24/7, probably more like 10/4.

----------


## mr2mike

> Fixed is life but dammit it's going to be scary in 2 years when my fixed rate expired and gotta renew. Guess that'll be the push for solar. 
> 
> Some regret not taking the 5 year fixed instead of 3 years at the time.



Fixed right now is $9.29/kWh. Anyone riding variable right now at $17.34/kWh is getting hosed. Easy switch and choice.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> What industrial electricity cost these days? Generally more or less than residential? Do industrial users get charged different rates through the day? 
> 
> Helping a friend set up a shop that has this equipment :
> 
> 
> Wouldn't run 24/7, probably more like 10/4.



I don't think that's enough juice to be an "industrial user" but I don't know.
I helped set up a plant that was consuming about 1.2MW and the contract we had to sign was to fix a rate but most importantly it was signing in blood that we would never ever never exceed a peak usage rate and that if we did for more than 14 minutes, our rate would go to something like 3x for every Joule for the next 6 months.

*I doubt this helps, but it's partially relevant...

----------


## The Cosworth

> What industrial electricity cost these days? Generally more or less than residential? Do industrial users get charged different rates through the day? 
> 
> Helping a friend set up a shop that has this equipment :
> 
> 
> Wouldn't run 24/7, probably more like 10/4.



Fire me an email or hit me up on Linkedin and I can answer your questions. Typically once you get over a certain size and rate class - yes you get industrial and can do what is called interval metering. So you're charged more on the 'spot' price.

Note - I don't work for the utility anymore so get your knowledge out of my head while it's fresh.

----------


## bjstare

> I don't think that's enough juice to be an "industrial user" but I don't know.



600V in is definitely not residential. What's in between residential and industrial? Commercial?

In my past life, I definitely designed piles of 600V industrial electrical systems.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> 600V in is definitely not residential. What's in between residential and industrial? Commercial?
> 
> In my past life, I definitely designed piles of 600V industrial electrical systems.



Agree, but most industrial sites I've seen that have (and certainly extensively used) 600V had it stepped down from 4160V or 25kV fed into the plant.
 :dunno:

----------


## The Cosworth

> 600V in is definitely not residential. What's in between residential and industrial? Commercial?
> 
> In my past life, I definitely designed piles of 600V industrial electrical systems.



From a rate perspective, it is usually the classification of the business and the total load. So a small 'industrial' like a small machine shop would be the same as a brewery for example. A massive Costco Warehouse or a big industrial site would be classified the same. Voltage has nothing to do with it. There are larger commercial buildings that are 347/600 and use 347v lighting for example.

----------


## pheoxs

250MWh is the cutoff between the two. Below that you are a small or medium business and you have a regular rate plan where you pay X cents per kwh and go about your day. Rates are basically the same as offered to residential.
https://www.enmax.com/business/elect...lans/low-usage

Above 250MWh you are a large commercial user and you have to contact Enmax to discuss options and they have a separate department you go through.

----------


## ExtraSlow

That's 250 mwh/mo, right? Thanks that's very hepful.

----------


## pheoxs

> That's 250 mwh/mo, right? Thanks that's very hepful.



250MWh per year apparently** Roughly 3k per month in electricity costs.

https://www.enmax.com/business/elect...petitive-plans

----------


## ZenOps

https://www.enmax.com/generation-wir...-system-demand

Tomorrow will most likely be peak. Probably will not break record set last year. It would have to be 35 celsius for a couple days to beat it.

----------


## ZenOps

15.7 cents per kwh this month. Not expensive as I was thinking it could be. Lots of hot weather, but not really concentrated two day heatwave type.

----------


## MOB68

resolved.

----------


## 16hypen3sp

My contract expires in Nov. 

Was thinking about going to a 3 year electricity plan.

Any words of wisdom?

----------


## zechs

Do it

----------


## redline

> My contract expires in Nov. 
> 
> Was thinking about going to a 3 year electricity plan.
> 
> Any words of wisdom?



Atco is better then enmax

----------


## mr2mike

EnMax
$9.29/kWh fixed.
Look at historical rates, seems like it's still a good deal.

----------


## finboy

> My contract expires in Nov. 
> 
> Was thinking about going to a 3 year electricity plan.
> 
> Any words of wisdom?



Ditto, was 5.79/kWh fussed with variable natural gas, now getting offered 9.29 kWh and 5.79 gj to move to fixed gas for 5 year term, lock it up?

----------


## zechs

You can go floating anytime you want.

Why WOULDN'T you lock in? These aren't like fixed mortgages.

----------


## ZenOps

18.031¢ Thank you floaters.

----------


## mr2mike

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canadi...lyst-1.6109337

Lock in now.

----------


## zechs

So did I miss where it was brought up floating rate electricity in August hit 32c/kwh?? Lolwtfbbq??!

Is everybody just locked in now, or is Alberta back in double meat sub territory and it doesn't matter?

----------


## ExtraSlow

> You guys talked me into it locked in for a new three year term on both natural gas and electricity through easymax. My alts will be unimpressed.



I think a lot of folks have fixed electricity.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Current EasyMax Rates:

----------


## Disoblige

Floatie no goatie.

----------


## riander5

About to sign up

May go fixed

Disoblige said floatie no goatie

----------


## Disoblige

Go fixed, these terms are not absolute. You can cancel within 30 days. Good protection if you need it.

----------


## ExtraSlow

You can cancel with enmax at any time.

----------


## Disoblige

> You can cancel with enmax at any time.



Like cancel cancel? Would that stop the 30 day minimum rule?
Ah I guess it shouldn't matter much.

----------


## riander5

This seems like a relevant tweet - Fixed Electricity and Floating Natty Gas

https://twitter.com/bcshaffer/status...htmode%3Dfalse


Also, natural gas T shirt for this interested 

https://arbitrageandy.us/products/natural-gas-t-shirt

----------


## ZenOps

18.24 cents. Expensive, but not crazy.

----------


## 2Legit2Quit

Rural life, $272 in transmission charges lolololol. Just electricity.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Rural life, $272 in transmission charges lolololol. Just electricity.



“Operation Round Up” well if that doesn’t sound like fee fi fo fum here’s another fee just because we can…

----------


## 2Legit2Quit

I should have posted in the over pay for shit flex thread

----------


## mr2mike

75% are fees. Beauty.

----------


## ZenOps

Wooden electricity poles are expensive. Its not like they grow on trees.

----------


## 2Legit2Quit

Have been battling with the electric company all day yesterday.

So basically what they did was moved from being a residential customer to being a farm customer and given the additional farm metrics which include peak demand metering, aka there's a formula used for farms and businesses that takes the latest monthly rate, times that by the highest peak demand kVa metered for that month and times that by the amount of days in the month.

Thus my fees are fucking insane.

This is a 2 person household, just my wife and I, on a 2 acre parcel with no farm or farm animals whatsoever. 

Our KWH for the month was just over 1000 and we've been around that for months, which is inline with a normal household.

They are outlining that customers have to be below 10 kVa AND use less than 8000 KWH a YEAR to be considered a residential customer. That equates to using ~666 KWH a month LOL

The contract I signed with them is for residential service and also states we are not a farm yet they moved me to farm status.

So far they're telling me too bad, so sad and get fucked. I've contacted UCA but since my electric provider is a cooperative they can't help, being a co-op lets them do whatever the fuck they want and gov has no impact.

My property is zoned as agriculture but we are taxed as residential by the county, I've sent the electric company a copy of my notice assessment that outlines we are residential but I'm awaiting them to reply with we don't care.

I contacted Fortis to see if they will come out and install a meter so I can get off the cooperative as the co-op is the literal only option where I live, really hoping Fortis can come through and it won't cost an arm and a leg, should find out later this week.

----------


## vengie

> Have been battling with the electric company all day yesterday.
> 
> So basically what they did was moved from being a residential customer to being a farm customer and given the additional farm metrics which include peak demand metering, aka there's a formula used for farms and businesses that takes the latest monthly rate, times that by the highest peak demand kVa metered for that month and times that by the amount of days in the month.
> 
> Thus my fees are fucking insane.
> 
> This is a 2 person household, just my wife and I, on a 2 acre parcel with no farm or farm animals whatsoever. 
> 
> Our KWH for the month was just over 1000 and we've been around that for months, which is inline with a normal household.
> ...



I know this all too well.

Our small Yoga studio is on the main floor of a residential building. As such distribution is already in place to the building.
However because we are a business our distribution fees are charged as such... Last month's bill we paid $737.81 in distribution fees.

Such a scam.

----------


## 2Legit2Quit

> I know this all too well.
> 
> Our small Yoga studio is on the main floor of a residential building. As such distribution is already in place to the building.
> However because we are a business our distribution fees are charged as such... Last month's bill we paid $737.81 in distribution fees.
> 
> Such a scam.



Yeah exactly, it's insane. But more so I don't have the ability to write anything off or get any rebates as if I were a farm or business.....because I'm not a farm or business.

It's 100% a scam.

If I can't get anywhere with either the co-op or Fortis then I'm going to have to go to the media and my MLA to see if anything can be done.

----------


## 2Legit2Quit

Update to my situation

Fortis got back to me yesterday saying that they can install a meter and will cover the cost of whatever is needed to buy out my setup from the Co-op REA, thank fucking god.

Fellow I am dealing with from Fortis confirmed we shouldn't be getting farm status (no surprise) and that peak demand metering is only for farms or businesses, you have to actually be a farm, grow and produce revenue from whatever agricultural area you're into...which obviously doesn't matter as we're not a fucking a farm and signed a contract stating we weren't.

I signed the docs for Fortis to initiate the buyout from the REA and am just going to wait for confirmation we're good to go before I let my neighbors know they have the option to get away from the REA if they want or are getting screwed like we have been, I reached out to them earlier this week and they've been under the thought the only option is the cooperative.

----------


## zechs

Glad it worked out, pretty wild story.

Having ran a business on an acreage with a commercial property designation, I know all too well about commercial electricity rates. Fortis also told me (even as a business), there would be no problem switching to a residential power service if I wanted to bother.

----------


## 2Legit2Quit

Has been a new and un-needed experience to me as far as dealing with farm/business electricity fees. 

Once everything is wrapped up I might toss my story out to any news sources for some kind of consumer affairs bit and see if anyone is interested in sharing the story. I have no doubt there's other customers like me getting fucked by the REA and think there's no other option. 

Along with the REA is more or less running a scam and also going back on contracts, lots of shit that isn't right with the situation overall.

But I won't go down that road until I'm free and clear in case the REA tries to fuck with me for any bad exposure on their part.

----------


## SilverRex

I was on variable pretty much all my life until last year I think fixed electric at 6.89 and gas 4.09, did this as soon as I saw a technical breakout over 4 dollar on the natgas price. Sadly I wasnt this smart with my variable rate mortgage when it was at 1.99%. I would have rather screw up my enmax rates and locked up my mortgage instead.

----------


## ZenOps

22.133 cents

Damn son, do they think money flows like some invisible energy or something?

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

I’m glad we had new windows installed on our house ASAP after buying it, my enmax bills since have been around 30% less.

----------


## mr2mike

Heat is cheap right now though.
Electricity isn't.
How many people regret not getting a gas dryer?

----------


## pheoxs

> How many people regret not getting a gas dryer?



Just throw the clothes in the bbq for a few min. EZ.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> Heat is cheap right now though.
> Electricity isn't.
> How many people regret not getting a gas dryer?



My AC still uses electricity in the summer.

----------


## ExtraSlow

we need to invent gas AC!

----------


## tonytiger55

> I’m glad we had new windows installed on our house ASAP after buying it, my enmax bills since have been around 30% less.



How many windows and how much did it cost if you dont mind me asking?

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> How many windows and how much did it cost if you dont mind me asking?



10 windows was around $13900 through Green Fox. Ordered October 2021.

----------


## riander5

Sounds like you small towners really need to do this NRcan greener home grant!

----------


## mr2mike

$14k / $50 savings max per month = Payout longer than you're owning.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> $14k / $50 savings max per month = Payout longer than you're owning.



I’m saving more like $150 a month, but also my furnace doesn’t run 24/7 putting major wear on it in cold temps, and I no longer see daylight through the corner of my windows.

----------


## mr2mike

Ok that's better. Only way I save $150 per month is the service fees get dropped. Total bill was $255 last month.

----------


## ZenOps

The cheap $2 solution is to clip on an emergency blanket to the drapes for the winter. Will probably cut bills by some GJ. Best to throw out when spring hits.

The $50 solution is to upgrade to thermal drapes, roughly the same - but you probably won't have as much moisture buildup. If it saves two GJ over one winter (say you have windows that are 30 years old) it pays for itself in five years or so.

Vancouver? Don't even think about blanket or thermal curtains, the moisture will be horribad. Calgary? All good.

If you aren't totally committed to upgrading windows entirely.

----------


## SilverRex

> The cheap $2 solution is to clip on an emergency blanket to the drapes for the winter. Will probably cut bills by some GJ. Best to throw out when spring hits.
> 
> The $50 solution is to upgrade to thermal drapes, roughly the same - but you probably won't have as much moisture buildup. If it saves two GJ over one winter (say you have windows that are 30 years old) it pays for itself in five years or so.
> 
> Vancouver? Don't even think about blanket or thermal curtains, the moisture will be horribad. Calgary? All good.
> 
> If you aren't totally committed to upgrading windows entirely.



Interesting on the blanket solution, however would it be an issue since the windows often can give me a sense of how my moist/humidity is doing in the house. If we covered them up, it may throw off my RH spidy senses.

----------


## Ekliptix

My November bill was $296. Lower then my average. 1994 house. Gas is fixed at $4.09, electricity at $0.0669.

- $62 electricity, vs $150 in August from the AC use.
- $128 nat gas, vs $390 as a peak in Jan 2022. My big 3 car garage is really leaky. I need the garage door installers to come back and seal it better. 3 of my home windows are leaky, but I've added some clear plastic sheets with tape to deal with it for the winter for $40. I also installed double cell fabric blinds, blinds.ca. They're closed most of the time, and def offer insulation value.
- $95 for water + recycling. $216 was my peak in Sept from watering my lawn.

----------


## Xtrema

Isn't AB gov keeping gas at $6.50/GJ and picking up the tab if it's over?

----------


## suntan

> Isn't AB gov keeping gas at $6.50/GJ and picking up the tab if it's over?



Holy shit, Ecobee set to 21 then!

----------


## ExtraSlow

> Holy shit, Ecobee set to 21 then!

----------


## benyl

Pft. Are you a student?

----------


## ExtraSlow

24 is a flex.

----------


## suntan

I'm not running a sauna.

----------


## killramos

You guys look at your thermostats?

The house manager takes care of that sort of thing

----------


## suntan

The air truly is rarified in Aspen.

----------


## LilDrunkenSmurf

24? Turn on the A/C.

----------


## schurchill39

24 is grossly hot in a house

----------


## 16hypen3sp

> 24 is grossly hot in a house



Normal for old people. Heat is always cranked in every seniors home lol

----------


## littledan

Tai po has heat set to 27.5 cereal

----------


## Disoblige

Enmax fixed is 11 cents now. I renewed in October for 9.29 (not that it makes a big diff).

----------


## pheoxs

> Enmax fixed is 11 cents now. I renewed in October for 9.29 (not that it makes a big diff).



2024/2025 is going to be fucked. Everyone’s interest rates renewing, fixed energy plans renewing. Lot of professionals in their 2.4M homes going to be in a world of hurt.

----------


## Disoblige

Some probably already fucked being on variable.

But you never know. Everyone locking in on fixed let's say and then later prime drops in 2025+ and folks are eating good while all the fixed ppl stuck on higher rates lol.

----------


## vengie

Rookie numbers

----------


## cycosis

I just had to renew at 11 cents for enmax as my 3 year at 6.29 was up in January. Shame on me for not renewing last year for another 5 year term

----------


## ZenOps

https://www.enmax.com/generation-wir...-system-demand

Usage at this price and cold = Not nearly as elastic as expected. If you need the power, you need the power - it seems at any price. Peak should still be around 6 pm, but maybe only 1600 MW due to high price.

----------


## mr2mike

Bet we hit a record this week due to lots of people already off for Christmas and sitting at home.
Or as some might call them: 
Government Employees working from home.

----------


## littledan

my gtd rate w/ direct energy is up for renewal. my existing rates are $3.65/GJ and 6.29c/kWh. DE is offering $5.99/GJ and 12.59c/kWh. Lol fuckers.

Atco posted 5 year rate options are $5.99/GJ and 10.89c/kWh.

is any one getting discounted rates by calling in threatening to yell at clouds. Or is it basically you get what you get.

----------


## pheoxs

Bigger question is why the fuck are you with direct energy to start. Gtfo and switch

----------


## Disoblige

Hmm, anyone ever deal with this scenario?

If you had a tenant that stopped electricity on their end and it was not set up to transition over to the landlord, it basically stays in limbo as RRO until someone takes it over. But what if someone signs up again to take it over under a different retailer? How would they be on the hook for the limbo charges from when the last tenant cancelled electricity to when the new tenant does?

Example: Tenant stops elected Nov 30 via Enmax. Home has power but no account to charge to, rates as per RRO. In Feb, new tenant takes over electricity but under ATCO. Did Enmax just get screwed for those couple months?

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

My bill this month was only 70.5% fees for gas an electricity. Joy.

----------


## pheoxs

> Hmm, anyone ever deal with this scenario?
> 
> If you had a tenant that stopped electricity on their end and it was not set up to transition over to the landlord, it basically stays in limbo as RRO until someone takes it over. But what if someone signs up again to take it over under a different retailer? How would they be on the hook for the limbo charges from when the last tenant cancelled electricity to when the new tenant does?
> 
> Example: Tenant stops elected Nov 30 via Enmax. Home has power but no account to charge to, rates as per RRO. In Feb, new tenant takes over electricity but under ATCO. Did Enmax just get screwed for those couple months?



Presumably the RRO bill goes to the property owner and then to collections if unpaid. It would then be up to the property owner to go after the prior tenant to recoup the bill.

Now way Enmax simply eats the bill as an oopsies, otherwise people would just abuse that loophole.

----------


## killramos

Best asset class

----------


## sabad66

> Presumably the RRO bill goes to the property owner and then to collections if unpaid. It would then be up to the property owner to go after the prior tenant to recoup the bill.
> 
> Now way Enmax simply eats the bill as an oopsies, otherwise people would just abuse that loophole.



Pretty much this. Landlord is on the hook for any unpaid utilities in between tenants.

----------


## bjstare

> Pretty much this. Landlord is on the hook for any unpaid utilities in between tenants.



This seems so obvious, how is it even in question?

----------


## Disoblige

> This seems so obvious, how is it even in question?



Haha it does make sense but when Enmax has no one to charge to, it makes me wonder is all. I guess the whole collections part to the property owner makes sense as well. Oh well, it's just a month or so worth so it made me curious.

I think best thing to do is once new tenant takes over, just reimburse new tenant for difference because chances are any lingering charges will be pushed forward to the new tenant. And RRO charges cannot be settled until we know when someone took over anyways.

----------


## killramos

I rented my place to my brother for a few months to satisfy occupancy rules while I was selling a few years back. 

When he canceled his utilities I automatically started getting bills from Enmax again.

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## benyl

> Haha it does make sense but when Enmax has no one to charge to, it makes me wonder is all. I guess the whole collections part to the property owner makes sense as well. Oh well, it's just a month or so worth so it made me curious.
> 
> I think best thing to do is once new tenant takes over, just reimburse new tenant for difference because chances are any lingering charges will be pushed forward to the new tenant. And RRO charges cannot be settled until we know when someone took over anyways.



No, they don't get pushed forward. The owner owes. They will send collections after you at some point.

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## suntan

Do landlords just make money by accident?

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## ExtraSlow

> Do landlords just make money by accident?



Trick question

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## Disoblige

> I rented my place to my brother for a few months to satisfy occupancy rules while I was selling a few years back. 
> 
> When he canceled his utilities I automatically started getting bills from Enmax again.



I think that is because you signed up for that automatic landlord transition, which is what usually smart people would do!




> No, they don't get pushed forward. The owner owes. They will send collections after you at some point.



Interesting. Enmax rep at the time told me different so thought it was weird they said that it goes to whoever takes it over. Well that's good. I guess the only way to know the final bill would be after the tenant takes it over as it's only been a month and no bill was received in the mail. So I have no clue what is owed anyways.

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## pheoxs

Floating electricity up to 20 cents kwh. Absolutely crazy if this trend continues

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## mr2mike

EV's for everyone!

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## ZenOps

Back to the new normal. Don't know if I mentioned this earlier but they are giving me the $8.33 back each month for being on locked natgas and electricity. I'll take that free cheap frozen pizza every month.

Not sure if the locked in rates are worth anymore, highly dependant on worldwide energy situation.

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