# Car Forums > Automotive News >  Nissan 400z

## cam_wmh

https://www.motoring.com.au/nissan-c...w-400z-126167/

Nissan confirms the new 400z, will have a manual. Good to see theyre making a resurgence, especially on this forum.. Rages Miata, heck even Buster posting the T50.  :ROFL!: 

Life is more fun, rowing your gears.

Now Nissan updated their dash/multimedia.. will that save it? Is Nissan still the Japanese Dodge?

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## pheoxs

400hp will be tons of fun. Kinda weird they departed the naming convention that the 400z will have a 3.0 but really happy its factory turbo charged. Should make for a good modding scene. One would hope that Nissan still remembers how to design new cars and doesn't just copy paste a lot of the details over from their other cars.

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## Xtrema

Seems like 2021 March debut.

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## T-Dubbs

> Seems like 2021 March debut.



looks like a mix of a mustang rear end and BRZ front

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## A790

Hopefully it looks better than the above images.

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## killramos

Isnt Nissan bankrupt?

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## Xtrema

> Hopefully it looks better than the above images.



They have been teasing it quite a bit for the last little bit. Z Proto reveal is tomorrow.

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## ThePenIsMightier

Is this the same 3.0L TT as the new Infiniti Q50 Red Sport?

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## you&me

I was expecting a more significant change in styling that what's indicated by the renderings above. 

Basically slapping new headlamps and taillights on a nearly-20-year-old design doesn't seem like it will cut it with anyone but the most die-hard Z enthusiast...

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## pheoxs

> looks like a mix of a mustang rear end and BRZ front



Yeah, I don't mind the front (I love the brz look anyways) but the back ... looks blah

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## max_boost

Targa pls!!

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## Ca_Silvia13

> Yeah, I don't mind the front (I love the brz look anyways) but the back ... looks blah



I agree and I'm curious if the proportions changed or if its the same width and length of the current 370z

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## finboy

I like it way more than the 350/370

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## 01RedDX

.

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## dirtsniffer

Definitely seeing the 300zx influence on the rear. Mercedes engine right? sounds good to me.

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## Xtrema

> Damn, $70k for that. Used gt-r territory.



I think that's in Kangaroo dollar. I expect this to land at around $60K in Canadian peso, somewhere between the 4 banger and I6 Supra.

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## JohnnyHockey13

Love that they're keeping the manual...but, that styling is way too conservative, I miss my old 370Z. 

Off topic, but I really wish Nissan would revisit the IDX project.

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## KRyn

.

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## pheoxs



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## msommers

I mostly like everything expect for that front end, God that is still awful. Nissan hasn't made a sexy Z car since the early 90's.

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## you&me

What an incoherent mess.

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## Buster

wait, did they put white lettered tires on it?

lol

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## pheoxs

Some second thoughts. Debadge the trunk, whatever the fuck they thought was a good location for the fairlady emblem. And replace the grill, actually the whole front bumper .... and it'll look nice again.

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## Ca_Silvia13

> Some second thoughts. Debadge the trunk, whatever the fuck they thought was a good location for the fairlady emblem. And replace the grill, actually the whole front bumper .... and it'll look nice again.



Typical prototype, the production version will be smoothed over here and there. But the off the shelf 350z bumper they slapped on the front does seem pretty lazy

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## Twin_Cam_Turbo

Nissan Mustang F Type 350Z.

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## dj_rice

> Is this the same 3.0L TT as the Infiniti Q50 Red Sport?



Yes VR30TT

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## bjstare

Overall I don’t mind it. Front end is meh, really like the rear. Could have taken some inspiration from the 300zx for the front maybe? Idk. 

Either way I won’t buy one; agree that Nissan is the Chrysler of japan.

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## npham

> Either way I won’t buy one; agree that Nissan is the Chrysler of japan.



You basically only buy one if you don't get a fuck about what car you drive, or can't get approved anywhere else...

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## Neil4Speed

> What an incoherent mess.



Incoherent is a good way to describe this... Its like they tried to take the "greatest hits" of the past 50 years of Z cars and slam it into a car. Design language doesn't really work that way.

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## dirtsniffer

I like the throwback badge lol. pointed nose also a throw back to the z's of past. Like the black roof as well. Will look great with tint and a contrasting color for the body.

If they can get that engine into an affordable package.. Could be a nice alternative to the mustang or camaro. Count me in for the competition!

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## Xtrema

> Incoherent is a good way to describe this... Its like they tried to take the "greatest hits" of the past 50 years of Z cars and slam it into a car. Design language doesn't really work that way.



Nailed it.

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## dirtsniffer

crazy that you can get a 2020 370z for 32 grand.

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## heavyD

I actually like the clean lines and lack of fake scoops and vents but what's up with the Domo-kun front end? A perfectly rectangular grill just doesn't look right.

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## Xtrema

Any minds changed after seeing it in motion?

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## austic

Back looks terrible, reminds me of prius. It needs wing badly but not even sure that would help.

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## msommers

I like the rear, reminds me of the 300zx a bit. Here's some comparisons with the 240z:





That front end is just a gaping hole of ugly that ruins it completely. I guess that's why I don't like the 350/370 either, they both look like a squashed Volkswagen Beatle.

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## killramos

Looks like they asked Aston Martin for tips on making their headlights look like trash.

That said the whole thing is terribad

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## jabjab

i think small changes to the shape of that front grill would make it look much better. The side profile is nice and looks like the interior is going to be great.

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## Xtrema

So this thing is just a skin job. The whole thing is still based on a "modified" FM platform.

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## Kloubek

Hate it. Absolutely a design disaster imo.

Headlights are an abnormal shape for zero apparent reason and from some angles looks like baggy eyes.
Front grille looks dreamed up by that guy who was on here years ago with aspirations to rebody his z32. In fact, he had more design sense than just plunking down a rectangle.
Side profile looks pretty good and while the silver strip along the back up to the windows is kind of out of place, it at least gives some character. Lower sill area is sharp and the c pillar design still looks distinctive. So distinctive that you can't forget it is built on a really old platform.
Roof treatment looks nice.
Rear light (black) bar is too simple a shape and doesn't have enough presence. Needs to use more real estate - it just looks too thin for the car's hunkered stance.

Nissan had an opportunity to really hit this one out of the park and show the world they aren't irrelevant anymore. They could have really honed in on the omlove people still have for the 240 and 260. This reveal should have been a statement as a return to form. Well, it IS a statement. 

"Nissan is done trying". 

This is their white flag model. Get them while they last.

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## dirtsniffer

Disappointed to hear its not a new chassis.

When is genesis coming out with a sports car?

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## killramos

Genesis sports car? Probably Ferrari money based on how they price the other Hyundai’s.

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## dirtsniffer

Ouch not a good look. Basically a refresh of a 20 year old design

https://www.motortrend.com/features-...arison-visual/

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## heavyD

> Ouch not a good look. Basically a refresh of a 20 year old design
> 
> https://www.motortrend.com/features-...arison-visual/



Ha ha ha. Busted. That's awful.

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## Buster

Eek.

Dammit now I'm not buying one

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## Sky

Maybe people will grow into it like the Tesla Cyber Truck with it's sharp lines and simplistic design? well, not happening for me BUT I can't complain with any release of a RWD stick shift sports car. It will still get me excited to see these on the road along with any other 2 door sports cars. Before you know it, most vehicles on the road will be driverless on-demand rideshares. (hope it won't happen in my lifetime) haha.

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## ThePenIsMightier

> Ouch not a good look. Basically a refresh of a 20 year old design
> 
> https://www.motortrend.com/features-...arison-visual/



The 370z isn't 20 years old.
I don't think it's that weird for a Z look like a Z. And, I prefer this design mentality over the "all new Chevy Impala" that looked/looks the square root of zero like any Impala or the Malibu that looks like the most generic car ever. 

I thought all the press indicated the Z was dead, so this thing surprises me. I also would've expected more spaceship and less Datsun. Who knows what the final product will look like, I guess.

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## dirtsniffer

Same platform was used for the 350z.

Definitely the Chrysler of Japan

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## ThePenIsMightier

> Same platform was used for the 350z.
> 
> Definitely the Chrysler of Japan



What does that mean, exactly? The video seemed to allege "the same chassis" didn't it? Then it proceeded to show many things on the _body_ that were very similar.
So... Platform = body = chassis now? 

Without having a physical car to examine, I'm not sure it's fair to make these claims. 
I suspect that the Z was chopped (and there's plenty of evidence it was dead) and then some dumb exec decided to revive it at the 11th hour and gave designers 72hr to glue parts into the 370z until it looked like "a new Z". Like one of those terrible Iron Chef shows but for cars, like that one they did in Britain about the "new DeLorean" that I can't remember the name of.

The key questions remain. If this is still a prototype, how the fuck do they think it'll be on the road before 2024. How different will the real car look? Will this project still move ahead?

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## dirtsniffer

> What does that mean, exactly? The video seemed to allege "the same chassis" didn't it? Then it proceeded to show many things on the _body_ that were very similar.
> So... Platform = body = chassis now? 
> 
> Without having a physical car to examine, I'm not sure it's fair to make these claims. 
> I suspect that the Z was chopped (and there's plenty of evidence it was dead) and then some dumb exec decided to revive it at the 11th hour and gave designers 72hr to glue parts into the 370z until it looked like "a new Z". Like one of those terrible Iron Chef shows but for cars, like that one they did in Britain about the "new DeLorean" that I can't remember the name of.
> 
> The key questions remain. If this is still a prototype, how the fuck do they think it'll be on the road before 2024. How different will the real car look? Will this project still move ahead?



For carshte body, and chassis are synonymous because they are all unibody designs. Well maybe not platform as I think they can be altered for various wheelbases, but generally the change is minimal. BMW CLAR is an example of a modular platform.



If it won't be released until 2024 maybe they are working on a new design, but you'd think they would be explicit about that

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## heavyD

> What does that mean, exactly? The video seemed to allege "the same chassis" didn't it? Then it proceeded to show many things on the _body_ that were very similar.
> So... Platform = body = chassis now? 
> 
> Without having a physical car to examine, I'm not sure it's fair to make these claims. 
> I suspect that the Z was chopped (and there's plenty of evidence it was dead) and then some dumb exec decided to revive it at the 11th hour and gave designers 72hr to glue parts into the 370z until it looked like "a new Z". Like one of those terrible Iron Chef shows but for cars, like that one they did in Britain about the "new DeLorean" that I can't remember the name of.
> 
> The key questions remain. If this is still a prototype, how the fuck do they think it'll be on the road before 2024. How different will the real car look? Will this project still move ahead?



It means this new Z is a 370Z with revised sheet metal and interior bits. If you actually take time to read the Motor Trend article where they go photo to photo you can see the new Z is in fact the old Z right down to the door handles and interior vents.

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## Xtrema

> Ouch not a good look. Basically a refresh of a 20 year old design
> 
> https://www.motortrend.com/features-...arison-visual/



They don't have $. It's just a reskin. I kinda clue in to it when I see some elements in the interior which are identical.

If anything, this new car is making the bare bone $30K 370Z more attractive.

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## Disoblige

Let's all appreciate a time when Nissan was badass.

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## Xtrema

> Let's all appreciate a time when Nissan was badass.



So bad ass that its headlights are used on Diablo's.

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## e31

I like my s30, i've already turned down a straight-up trade for a 370z. I expect that my reaction won't change for this new car either.

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## cam_wmh

> I like my s30, i've already turned down a straight-up trade for a 370z. I expect that my reaction won't change for this new car either.



Great ol curves on 'er.

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## Darkane

It’s slowly growing on me. 

Yes it’s the old chassis, but that’s okay for now. 

Unfortunately two seat sports cars just don’t make sense anymore. They should, but don’t. 

The bright side is it’ll weigh somewhere in the 3250-3400 range. Base car is roughly 3250, and nismo at 3400. 

The nismo 370Z has some of the best seats.

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## adam c

Doug DeMuro did a review, he’s predicting Supra money for this, if that’s true I feel it’s a huge mistake from Nissan and won’t sell 

https://youtu.be/QCp-PaCRjEs

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## killramos

> Doug DeMuro did a review, he’s predicting Supra money for this, if that’s true I feel it’s a huge mistake from Nissan and won’t sell 
> 
> https://youtu.be/QCp-PaCRjEs



Rationally, I would agree with you. But Nissan fans buy that kind of trash every day.

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## Xtrema

> Doug DeMuro did a review, he’s predicting Supra money for this, if that’s true I feel it’s a huge mistake from Nissan and won’t sell 
> 
> https://youtu.be/QCp-PaCRjEs



Given it's almost a carbon copy of current car that has a NA 332HP mill for $30K, how up market can a, really just a mmc model fetch?

At best they can start a detune 300HP one at $40K-$50K and a 400HP one for $50-$60K. Tough to hit $70K with what's shown. Unless they keep throwing $13-$15K on the hood to move them like Q60.

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## Disoblige

I wish a base 370Z was a tad cheaper so I can get it under $30K OTD after taxes, etc.
Then I can do this  :ROFL!:

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## 94boosted

> Please, please, please let the 400Z get a proper LSD. The viscous unit has to be the biggest single issue with the 350/370.



This x1000

Even a vanilla mechanical LSD, no need for some fancy eLSD. And for the love of god I hope some front camber adjustment. 




> Given it's almost a carbon copy of current car that has a NA 332HP mill for $30K, how up market can a, really just a mmc model fetch?
> 
> At best they can start a detune 300HP one at $40K-$50K and a 400HP one for $50-$60K. Tough to hit $70K with what's shown. Unless they keep throwing $13-$15K on the hood to move them like Q60.



Q50 Red Sport sedan starts at $58K (for some silly reason the coupe starts at $7K more), there's no way they can price this thing higher than the "luxury" counterpart  :dunno:

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## ThePenIsMightier

> This x1000
> 
> Even a vanilla mechanical LSD, no need for some fancy eLSD. And for the love of god I hope some front camber adjustment. 
> 
> 
> 
> Q50 Red Sport sedan starts at $58K (for some silly reason the coupe starts at $7K more), there's no way they can price this thing higher than the "luxury" counterpart



I also think a proper LSD would help. I've seen some more news about this recently, but it looked like clickbait, so I didn't bother.
I've been for a ride in one of those Red Sports recently and it's pretty amazing. I'm hoping to get to _drive_ one sometime before Xmas.

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## Xtrema



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## Kloubek

I think the original renderings floating around the net didn't have much of any grille to see. Just black plastic. In that last pic of the front, it stands out quite a bit. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing - it looks pretty industrial (they would call it retro) for a sports car.

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## riander5

I like the back end but the front end looks like a miata to me

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## Twin_Cam_Turbo

That doesn’t look like a manual transmission to me.

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## ExtraSlow

Looks better than recent Nissan shit.

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## adam c

That front end looks like a teen with braces

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## ExtraSlow

If Aston Martin made a mustang?

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## Buster

Did they paint half of th grill chrome?

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## ExtraSlow

I think it's mouth is partly open.

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## heavyD

Its a weird looking car. The rectangular cut-out opening looked better than this partial grille. Maybe it will look better in person.

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## ThePenIsMightier

Needs bigger and more poorly positioned fuel door.

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## dirtsniffer

> Looks better than recent Nissan shit.



It's because it is older than recent nissan shit.

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## bjstare

> Needs bigger and more poorly positioned fuel door.



Haha I hadn't noticed that. Looks like it's the size of a baketball.

Overall, car looks okay. I generally think Nissan makes garbage, with an exception now and then. Maybe this one will be an exception?

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## dirtsniffer

well they couldn't move the location of the fuel door, but they wanted to curve in that same location. insert oversized door to make the geometry work.

2002 would also like their e-brake lever back.

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## Buster

> well they couldn't move the location of the fuel door, but they wanted to curve in that same location. insert oversized door to make the geometry work.
> 
> 2002 would also like their e-brake lever back.



Looks like ass.

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## heavyD

It kind of looks bad if you fixate on it. I didn't really notice it until it was pointed out but now I will probably fixate on it for a bit. Probably won't be as noticeable in a darker color. The styling looks like a fusion of old and new ideas that doesn't quite work but I will reserve judgement until I see it in person. If it has 400+ hp and weighs under 3500 lbs it should at least be fun to drive as hopefully Nissan prices this car accordingly as it's still a Nissan at the end of the day.

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## ThePenIsMightier

Does the setting for these pictures not scream "here is a fake 400z" to anyone?
What's the motivation to believe this?

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## killramos

> Does the setting for these pictures not scream "here is a fake 400z" to anyone?
> What's the motivation to believe this?



I don’t think Nissan cares enough to bother faking a 400z

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## Rocket1k78

> If Aston Martin made a mustang?



Bingo!

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## rage2

Rumors from R&T says Nissan is planning on undercutting the Supra heavily for the base Z. $35k USD start, so roughly $45k CAD start. That's dirt cheap for a 400hp 3300lb sports car if true.

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## bjstare

> Rumors from R&T says Nissan is planning on undercutting the Supra heavily for the base Z. $35k USD start, so roughly $45k CAD start. That's dirt cheap for a 400hp 3300lb sports car if true.



That would make sense - it's their only play, really.

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## JohnnyHockey13

Supra doesn't come in manual but this does.....take my money!

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## dtrieu

> Hate it. Absolutely a design disaster imo.
> 
> Headlights are an abnormal shape for zero apparent reason and from some angles looks like baggy eyes.
> Front grille looks dreamed up by that guy who was on here years ago with aspirations to rebody his z32. In fact, he had more design sense than just plunking down a rectangle.
> Side profile looks pretty good and while the silver strip along the back up to the windows is kind of out of place, it at least gives some character. Lower sill area is sharp and the c pillar design still looks distinctive. So distinctive that you can't forget it is built on a really old platform.
> Roof treatment looks nice.
> Rear light (black) bar is too simple a shape and doesn't have enough presence. Needs to use more real estate - it just looks too thin for the car's hunkered stance.
> 
> Nissan had an opportunity to really hit this one out of the park and show the world they aren't irrelevant anymore. They could have really honed in on the omlove people still have for the 240 and 260. This reveal should have been a statement as a return to form. Well, it IS a statement. 
> ...




Are you hating on the shape of the headlights? Have you seen the car in your signature?

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## Mitsu3000gt

400HP (FINALLY turbo'd) with a manual option for ~$45K? I think they are going to sell a boat load of these as many of the complaints can be forgiven for that price.

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## Xtrema

> That would make sense - it's their only play, really.



The FM platform is like almost 20 years old at this point. They definitely redid 400z on the cheap. Every rumor I have read is this $15K discount against Supra 3.0L. Nissan is getting painted into the corner now for pricing.

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## JRSC00LUDE

> That front end looks like a teen with braces



 :Drool:

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## Disoblige

This might be good.

Will reserve judgement when official release comes out in a different color scheme. White, red or a darker tone (green?) with a black grill may look good.

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## ThePenIsMightier

> That would make sense - it's their only play, really.



A base 370z is only like $32k now. I think a Touring or Sport WAS about $50k back when they were more cutting edge and popular, so this new 400z pricing sounds in line (IF any portion of this rumor mill comes true). That's kind of Nissan's marketing or niche. "Build a reasonable, Japanese sports car (that's very American-inspired), for a good price."

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## killramos

I thought their niche was “Put CVT’s in everything and hope no one notices”

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## ThePenIsMightier

> I thought their niche was Put CVTs in everything and hope no one notices



Ha! Yeah I think they definitely got into a bit of a bad habit with that. Now I'm noticing a huge array of pseudo-SUV micro things. I think they'll do extremely well with this as that seems to be what Jr-Millennials are buying.

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## Maxx Mazda

Front end looks like that FIAT miata thing.

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## Shlade

> Front end looks like that FIAT miata thing.



Yeah it does. It's a pretty horrible looking car IMO... Almost like a brz and other scion/toyota variant little thing....

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## jutes

> 400HP (FINALLY turbo'd) with a manual option for ~$45K? I think they are going to sell a boat load of these as many of the complaints can be forgiven for that price.



LT1 Camaro (455hp) with the 6spd and Recaros is around $42k. It's not a particularly good looking vehicle from the front, but it would be interesting to see sales comparisons. These sub-$50k rwd manual coupes are good for the enthusiasts.

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## dirtsniffer

I was going to say this will still be dogshit compared to a v8 camaro or mustang but people must be getting tired of that

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## heavyD

I wouldn't get excited about pricing until it's announced. I'm skeptical it's going to pack 400 hp and msrp for thousands less than a CTR, Golf R, STI. Maybe if they drop a 4-cylinder engine as a base car. One thing good about being based on an ancient platform is that it keeps it's dimensions so it's going to be a pretty small car by today's standards. Unfortunately it will keep all the 370Z shape with that A pillar peak followed by sloping roof to rear end which IMO looks pretty dated today. It's not a very appealing car to me but I'm glad that it exists as cars like this won't be around much longer.

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## Kloubek

> Are you hating on the shape of the headlights? Have you seen the car in your signature?



You're comparing a brand new design against a 14 year old one? I don't mind the open eye look nearly as much as the Nissan, which looks like it hasn't slept in a week.

Besides, even if my car does have ugly.headlights, does that eliminate my right to form opinions on other vehicles? It doesn't. So really, the only reason for your post is to hate on my own car for no reason, to which you can suck a bag of dicks, fine sir.

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## ThePenIsMightier

TIL forum signatures are still a thing.

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## Disoblige

> TIL forum signatures are still a thing.



eliminate the sig!!!

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## ThePenIsMightier

> eliminate the sig!!!



I have the settings so that I never see them.

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## Kloubek

> I have the settings so that I never see them.



Oh, that's nice... you'll never have to know how hideous my headlights are. It's quite a thing to discuss...

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## ThePenIsMightier

Modern journalism:

https://driving.ca/nissan/auto-news/...400-horsepower

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## heavyD

> Modern journalism:
> 
> https://driving.ca/nissan/auto-news/...400-horsepower



Strange times indeed when anonymous forum posters can be used as automotive news sources. I don’t doubt the poster may have somehow got inside information but it’s still unconfirmed and for that to be spun into automotive news articles is a little much.

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## bjstare

I wouldn't exactly call anything on driving.ca journalism, so it checks out.

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## ThePenIsMightier

I know, right!!?!

"On this the 31st day of March, 2021 the MightiestPenIs doth declared to a forum of generally cantankerous pricks that the new Nissan Z will be sold for a price not less than 224,000 Danish Krone and will be offered in one colour, only. That colour will be Salmon Ejaculate."
Be it so.

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## ExtraSlow

Is that coho salmon or Atlantic Salmon? The ejaculate is visibly different.

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## killramos

> Is that coho salmon or Atlantic Salmon? The ejaculate is visibly different.

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## 94boosted

> I was going to say this will still be dogshit compared to a v8 camaro or mustang but people must be getting tired of that



 :dunno:  Not so sure, especially at our altitude. Mustangs and Camaros may have 450HP+ but they weigh in at 3700lbs+ and are naturally aspirated and at 3400' above sea level that's significant. I'm definitely looking forward to driving one of these.

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## dirtsniffer

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

They are a bunch faster than the supra and m2, and I doubt the nissan is faster than either of those. I guess that doesn't take into account the elevation as you mentioned.

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## 94boosted

> They are a bunch faster than the supra and m2, and I doubt the nissan is faster than either of those. I guess that doesn't take into account the elevation as you mentioned.



I was more so comparing it to the regular Mustang GT and Camaro SS than the PP2 and 1LE as those are some mighty track focused packages for both cars, if there's ever a NISMO version of the new Z that would be a more apples to apples comparison. Tires are going to be huge in the lap times, remember the PP2 gets Sport Cup 2's whereas the Supra gets PS4S's, as does the M2 (I think).

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## heavyD

I believe Supra’s and M2’s are factory equipped with the old PSS tires.

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## 94boosted

> I believe Supra’s and M2’s are factory equipped with the old PSS tires.



 :thumbs up:  thanks for the correction

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## Hallowed_point

I wish Nissan would go back to making sexy cars that look exotic such as the 300zx. 350z, 370z, 400z all have that bubbly, squished compact look that is about as visually appealing as a VW bug. I'm guessing modern crash standards don't allow such designs anymore.

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## heavyD

The 300ZX was during the era of peak Nissan. Not likely to ever see that again.

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## Shlade

> The 300ZX was during the era of peak Nissan. Not likely to ever see that again.



Everything Nissan sucks from the past 2 decades.

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## killramos

> Everything Nissan sucks from the past 2 decades.



Accurate

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## Kloubek

> Everything Nissan sucks from the past 2 decades.



Regrettably true. 

Most Nissans at that time were very competitive, and the z32 was a glorious car. (Imo, one of the best cars of that era). Even their other offerings were right on par with the competition. Then they made the GTR, and immediately thereafter decided they succeeded in reaching their apex and were now done with making anything worthwhile. 

Shame to see what was once a revered nameplate crumble into making fleet vehicles.

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## ThePenIsMightier

I think the 300ZX was bloated and lacked aggressive styling, particularly compared to the 350Z but I guess it's just an opinion thing. It took rice to make those 300zx cars look good with super aggressive wheels and lowering.
Their VQ35 was put in fuckin near every vehicle they produced at some point so I'd imagine the spare parts world is comparable (not literally) to small block Chevy. The engine can put out 450hp on stock internals, so I don't see why the company takes so much abuse on this particular forum. 
Is there a particularly terrible Nissan dealer in Calgary that has pissed in a lot of Corn Flakes?

----------


## heavyD

IMO the 300ZX is a timeless design. Still looks good today and far better than the A80 Supra ever did. It was also well built as Nissans in those days were not far off Toyota and Honda as far as quality of materials and fit/finish. Now their products are bottom of the barrel as even the Korean automakers look down on them.

----------


## g-m



----------


## Mitsu3000gt

I was poking around and it looks like GT-R's have outsold the 370Z's for Q121 haha. Maybe potential buyers are just waiting for the update though.

----------


## rage2

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023...t-look-review/

So far all the leaks have proven accurate. Just waiting for price now.

----------


## cam_wmh

It's likely been posted already, but my god this front end. Lol

----------


## killramos

#justnissanthings

----------


## ExtraSlow

Arash?

----------


## Darkane

The nismo version will fix the front. 

Wonder how much power they can wring with warranty. 

450hp is getting there

----------


## Buster

i really hope this car is good.

----------


## dirtsniffer

found an early review for you
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...50z-road-test/




> https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023...t-look-review/
> 
> So far all the leaks have proven accurate. Just waiting for price now.



 When did Ed Loh become a Nissan salesperson?

----------


## S-FLY

> It's likely been posted already, but my god this front end. Lol



"rob the jewelry store, tell'em make me a grill"

----------


## 94boosted

https://www.nissan.ca/experience-nis...pt-cars/z.html

_A newly available mechanical limited-slip differential_

 :Clap:  :Clap:

----------


## riander5

Could have had a bit better front grill, but man that side profile and rear end look awesome IMO. This car will be a tuners dream. Wait are there any tuners left out there...???

----------


## Pauly Boy

> It's likely been posted already, but my god this front end. Lol



It certainly better in the blue colour. That's honestly the only real shitty part, the rest look pretty good outside of the interior, but those are always a personal choice.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

The front is supposed to look like a Datsun 280z and it does*

*As per the widemouth bass front-end requirements of the 2020's.

----------


## dirtsniffer

Hopefully this thing comes in at under 45k canadian.

----------


## Darkane

> Hopefully this thing comes in at under 45k canadian.



I referenced some numbers based on the Q60 MSRP differential, we’re looking at 46-47k base price, and likely 55k for performance package. 

OTD it’s 60k, I don’t like that. Even base it’s 50k OTD.

----------


## flipstah

> I referenced some numbers based on the Q60 MSRP differential, we’re looking at 46-47k base price, and likely 55k for performance package. 
> 
> OTD it’s 60k, I don’t like that. Even base it’s 50k OTD.



How much was a 370Z when they came out? It should be on par with that +/- inflation.

Pricing below the Q60 is a good estimate

----------


## rage2

The stripped down 370z sold for under 31k both in the US and Canada. US is around 40k and if they do the same thing as last gen, 40k cad would be a terrific buy.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> The stripped down 370z sold for under 31k both in the US and Canada. US is around 40k and if they do the same thing as last gen, 40k cad would be a terrific buy.



Only for the last ~5 years when it fell WAY behind due to no updates. A reasonable Z has been pushing $50k CDN since 2003.
I think it was 2016 when they started dumping them for $31k. I'd hate to have bought a '15 for $48k.

----------


## dirtsniffer

50K+ and your looking at a mustang GT PP or a 2SS.. 

This needs to be <45 for the sport version to get me in the dealer

----------


## JRSC00LUDE

> This needs to be <45 for the sport version to get me in the dealer



If it isn't, it will be 10 minutes after it leaves the lot. Buy it then I guess haha

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

Fair, but Nissan buyers aren't all cross shopping US cars in similar price ranges. Nissan has successfully sold Z's for around $48k-$52k for a long time. 
About 20 years ago, the competitors were the TT and the S2000. Obvs the S2000 would've been the best choice but I don't think many Nissan folks are debating Mustang vs. Z. If there isn't an RX8 or another reasonably priced, 2-seater, RWD, import available, they will buy the Z.

----------


## heavyD

I’m surprised there are still Nissan folk. I guess they are like a Mitsubishi or Suzuki folk that don’t care about owning a nice vehicle.

----------


## gpomp

> I’m surprised there are still Nissan folk. I guess they are like a Mitsubishi or Suzuki folk that don’t care about owning a nice vehicle.



They are the same people who buy Toyota trucks.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Im surprised there are still Nissan folk. I guess they are like a Mitsubishi or Suzuki folk that dont care about owning a nice vehicle.



Consumer Reports clearly states that the nicest cars are those that spend 20% of their time in the shop. BMW/Audi/Jaguar/etc

----------


## rage2

> They are the same people who buy Toyota trucks.



Taliban?

----------


## 94boosted

https://jalopnik.com/this-might-be-t...ist-1848443167

3485lbs curb weight 
Clutch Type Mechanical LSD (no more VLSD  :Clap: )
19x9.5F and 19x10R wheels
Double wishbone front suspension

Looking somewhat promising, now let's see how much it undercuts the Supra price by.

----------


## ExtraSlow

This thread still exists?

----------


## jutes

> This thread still exists?



Not everyone is a grumpy curmudgeon.

----------


## DonJuan

I think they redesigned the front bumper now... after reading this thread.

----------


## Xtrema

> I think they redesigned the front bumper now... after reading this thread.



I thought they stuck to their guns, and only give you a less ugly bumper if you pay more.

Business 101.

----------


## heavyD

Bumper is still the same. Also car is still a Nissan. Wah-wah.

----------


## Buster

I dont hate it as much as I used to. I still hate it. But not as much.

----------


## heavyD

Hate is such a strong word.

----------


## jabjab

depending on the final price i think its a good bang for your buck. Manual transmission, twin turbo, 400hp...would be cool if there was an AWD option.

----------


## DonJuan

My bad, I thought I was looking at a new redesign with a split bumper, but it was old prototype news with a catchy headline.

Nissan has a better chance of me buying this than the BMW Supra; not that I have garage space for either. They didn't just slap a Z badge on someone else's car and call it a Z, they just slapped a body kit on their old car and swapped in an engine.

----------


## Darkane

> ...would be cool if there was an AWD option.




Don’t be gross.

----------


## heavyD

> depending on the final price i think its a good bang for your buck. Manual transmission, twin turbo, 400hp...would be cool if there was an AWD option.



Supposedly to be priced around $40k USD for the entry level models.

----------


## jabjab

> Supposedly to be priced around $40k USD for the entry level models.



that isn't so bad, twin turbo and the manual transmission is hard to find nowadays. Hopefully the transmission isn't as notchy as the previous models

----------


## DonJuan

> Supposedly to be priced around $40k USD for the entry level models.



That might be alright... Might have to wait a year for a Track pack.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> That might be alright... Might have to wait a year for a Track pack.



Maybe they can make a more reasonable "Track Pack" on this because the 350z one was horse shit.

"Finally, the perfect blend of cheap, cloth seats plus Brembo brakes! Just what no one was waiting for!"

----------


## Xtrema



----------


## Darkane

> 



Sounded like it bogged after Jim’s dad punched it.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

Didn't that motorcycle thing happen about a week ago?
Live on the news?

----------


## bjstare

> Maybe they can make a more reasonable "Track Pack" on this because the 350z one was horse shit.
> 
> "Finally, the perfect blend of cheap, cloth seats plus Brembo brakes! Just what no one was waiting for!"



I like that. Leather sucks. It's cold when it's cold, and hot when it's hot. And bigger brakes are always better.

I actually don't mind this thing. For me, it's more of a mental block that it's built on an ancient platform; the platform itself is actually pretty good IMO, it drove great. My g37s was probably the easiest car out of anything I've owned to get sideways... it had great balance.

As I'm sure I said earlier, I probably still wont buy one. But 100x higher chance now that it's got real power. Hopefully they don't put the garbage steering in that they did in the q50 (or whatever we're calling the g37 these days).

----------


## DonJuan

> Hopefully they don't put the garbage steering in that they did in the q50 (or whatever we're calling the g37 these days).



Oh shit, you just reminded me of that NUMB q50 steering. I had it repressed for so long.

----------


## Xtrema

> Oh shit, you just reminded me of that NUMB q50 steering. I had it repressed for so long.



I though Infiniti has abandoned DAS. Or they are just too cheap to add it to other cars since debut of 2014 Q50/60.

----------


## DonJuan

> I though Infiniti has abandoned DAS. Or they are just too cheap to add it to other cars since debut of 2014 Q50/60.



I hope they ditched it. I drove it on a 2015 Q50 awd when I was thinking of trading in my daily. It's what made me keep my car.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> I like that. Leather sucks. It's cold when it's cold, and hot when it's hot. And bigger brakes are always better.
> 
> I actually don't mind this thing. For me, it's more of a mental block that it's built on an ancient platform; the platform itself is actually pretty good IMO, it drove great. My g37s was probably the easiest car out of anything I've owned to get sideways... it had great balance.
> 
> As I'm sure I said earlier, I probably still wont buy one. But 100x higher chance now that it's got real power. Hopefully they don't put the garbage steering in that they did in the q50 (or whatever we're calling the g37 these days).



My issue was it just wasn't special. "Cut base options, add Brembo, label as Track Pack."

No upgraded suspension, no diet, no additional power. Are those improvements only for Nismo? Then why create pseudo track package?

----------


## 94boosted

Doesn't sound like it's DAS on the Z. 

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...ew-info-photos




> The new Z also gets electric-assist instead of hydraulic-assist power steering.




I put a deposit down for one at Fish Creek Nissan for s**ts and giggles. For me the most important thing right now is the amount of front camber available, previous cars couldn't get more than -1.5°.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Doesn't sound like it's DAS on the Z. 
> 
> https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...ew-info-photos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I put a deposit down for one at Fish Creek Nissan for s**ts and giggles. For me the most important thing right now is the amount of front camber available, previous cars couldn't get more than -1.5°.



*Bombardment of NegRep comes from strange anti-Nissan clique...

When do they expect them in?
I'm noticing Nissan advertising hard in NHL games and I think that's new. I think they're advertising more, in general. I wonder how they're going to do in the coming years. I think they're going to do well.
They produce what - like 16 of these junk, pseudo mini CUV's now? The market gobbles that shit up. And they seem to keep getting away with CVT-errrvrything.
On the other hand, the Titan failed and they could use a foot in the door in trucks.

----------


## DonJuan

> *Bombardment of NegRep comes from strange anti-Nissan clique...



I've noticed this too. It's like they were molested in a Nissan at some point. I mean I hate the CVT too but its avoidable, just don't look at any of their FWD based platforms.

----------


## 94boosted

> *Bombardment of NegRep comes from strange anti-Nissan clique...
> 
> When do they expect them in?



 :ROFL!: 

Here's what the sales guy & GM told me:

- Only 140 2023 MY's coming to Canada
- Official pre-orders open to the public Feb. 3, however if you put your deposit down with a dealer (like I did) they were able to get the order into the que with Nissan ahead of time  :dunno: 
- Cars should arrive at dealerships in 3-4 months

----------


## Xtrema

> Here's what the sales guy & GM told me:
> 
> - Only 140 2023 MY's coming to Canada
> - Official pre-orders open to the public Feb. 3, however if you put your deposit down with a dealer (like I did) they were able to get the order into the que with Nissan ahead of time 
> - Cars should arrive at dealerships in 3-4 months



140 for whole Canada for 2023 model year? Toyota was able to move 400 Supras in 2021. This seems low.

----------


## heavyD

Nm

----------


## DonJuan

> Here's what the sales guy & GM told me:
> 
> - Only 140 2023 MY's coming to Canada
> - Official pre-orders open to the public Feb. 3, however if you put your deposit down with a dealer (like I did) they were able to get the order into the que with Nissan ahead of time 
> - Cars should arrive at dealerships in 3-4 months



I don't suppose they had any more info as to what what option levels are coming to Canada.

It's just going to be a lighter Q60 RedSport with a 6 speed. Which I like the premise of, their execution though I'm worried about.

----------


## bjstare

> This rep stuff is pretty useless if the fanboys are going to manipulate it like this.



ftfy.

Imaginary points (that have no intrinsic value) awarded to people by strangers on the internet are entirely useless. No need for a qualifier of that statement.

----------


## Xtrema

> ftfy.
> 
> Imaginary points (that have no intrinsic value) awarded to people by strangers on the internet are entirely useless. No need for a qualifier of that statement.



Wait so you are saying there is no Beyond Keychain tm attached to reps?  :Big Grin:

----------


## heavyD

> ftfy.
> 
> Imaginary points (that have no intrinsic value) awarded to people by strangers on the internet are entirely useless. No need for a qualifier of that statement.



Agreed but there's no reason to be a little bitch when someone says something you don't agree with.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> So it's you giving me negative rep for every anti-nissan comment I make? Last I looked this isn't a Nissan forum and any brand should be fair game. Why be that guy? You said BMW was shit in your negative rep comment to me. I don't care. Not going to negative rep you as that would mean your opinion matters to me as it's clear mine does to you. This rep stuff is pretty useless if the fanboys are going to manipulate it like this.



Oops, I missed this post.
I assure you it wasn't me! Sorry for the misunderstanding.

----------


## 94boosted

> 140 for whole Canada for 2023 model year? Toyota was able to move 400 Supras in 2021. This seems low.



Yup, that's what both the GM and Sales guy said. 




> I don't suppose they had any more info as to what what option levels are coming to Canada.
> 
> It's just going to be a lighter Q60 RedSport with a 6 speed. Which I like the premise of, their execution though I'm worried about.



Pretty much all of the details and info regarding the three trim levels is now available here. Only thing yet to be confirmed is the actual pricing. But the ~$40K USD base price for the Sport trim seems to be the consensus. If so that undercuts the Zupra 3.0 MSRP by roughly ~$12K USD, though the Toyota has an LSD as standard and you need to step up to the Performance trim with the Nissan to get an LSD.

----------


## Xtrema

> Pretty much all of the details and info regarding the three trim levels is now available here. Only thing yet to be confirmed is the actual pricing. But the ~$40K USD base price for the Sport trim seems to be the consensus. If so that undercuts the Zupra 3.0 MSRP by roughly ~$12K USD, though the Toyota has an LSD as standard and you need to step up to the Performance trim with the Nissan to get an LSD.



But Supra has a 2.0T trim but Nissan still undercut that by $4K USD.

For some reason, I still think that's too pricey for being on an almost 2 decade old FM platform. Supra has a way more rigid/modern chassis.

----------


## 94boosted

> But Supra has a 2.0T trim but Nissan still undercut that by $4K USD.
> 
> For some reason, I still think that's too pricey for being on an almost 2 decade old FM platform. Supra has a way more rigid/modern chassis.



The chassis may be dated but they have revised the suspension geometry and increased torsional rigidity for the new car. Whether that alone will be enough is yet to be determined. Also double wishbone on the Z vs. McStrut on the Zupra. I'm sure every Car Mag will pit the two cars against each other just as soon as they're able too. 

The single greatest weakness, imho, after having driven several 350 & 370Z's in a performance setting was the craptastic VLSD, that's now been addressed.

----------


## DonJuan

> Yup, that's what both the GM and Sales guy said. 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much all of the details and info regarding the three trim levels is now available here. Only thing yet to be confirmed is the actual pricing. But the ~$40K USD base price for the Sport trim seems to be the consensus. If so that undercuts the Zupra 3.0 MSRP by roughly ~$12K USD, though the Toyota has an LSD as standard and you need to step up to the Performance trim with the Nissan to get an LSD.



MERCI!

So the only mechanical difference between the sport and performance is the LSD and prob some goofy rims, everything else is creature comforts. This thing looks like its aimed right at that BMWupra 2.0 and 3.0. Maybe a Sport+ trim in a few months.




> But Supra has a 2.0T trim but Nissan still undercut that by $4K USD.
> 
> For some reason, I still think that's too pricey for being on an almost 2 decade old FM platform. Supra has a way more rigid/modern chassis.



If it works (and the company is almost broke) why fix it? Doesn't the supra only come with an auto?

----------


## 94boosted

> MERCI!
> 
> So the only mechanical difference between the sport and performance is the LSD and prob some goofy rims, everything else is creature comforts.



Bigger/wider Rays Forged wheels and better brakes (larger rotors with Akebono calipers) but yeah the rest of the stuff is just creature comforts.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

Yes their VLSD's sucked taint.

----------


## DonJuan

> Bigger/wider Rays Forged wheels and better brakes (larger rotors with Akebono calipers) but yeah the rest of the stuff is just creature comforts.



Ah shit, I missed the brake upgrade.  :thumbs up: 

I just realized the pegleg burnouts with 400hp would be hilarious!

----------


## Xtrema

> If it works (and the company is almost broke) why fix it? Doesn't the supra only come with an auto?



Take it with a grain a salt, it's coming for 2023.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/43855/...is-year-source

----------


## Xtrema

Sounds like 1/dealer applies to top Proto spec only?

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

I had to go log into real YouTube so I could ThumbsDown that. Fuck me - what a piece of fuck video.

----------


## Xtrema

> I had to go log into real YouTube so I could ThumbsDown that. Fuck me - what a piece of fuck video.



Yeah, thought those 2 would have grew out of punk phase but not. Still as expected, this is mostly the old Z with a new skin and infotainment unit. Every touch point looks the same.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Yeah, thought those 2 would have grew out of punk phase but not. Still as expected, this is mostly the old Z with a new skin and infotainment unit. Every touch point looks the same.



It's like an "unboxing" video with two random people who don't know what the product is. I couldn't make it past about 3 min.
But... Their statement of "1/dealer" is complete conjecture and even they say that. They pulled it completely out of their ass, live. So let's not contribute to that valueless rumour.

From what I saw, it still has a stick to hold the hood up. Gud jorb.

----------


## Xtrema

> So let's not contribute to that valueless rumour.



Sounds that that rumor started early in the dealer circle. Not sure if that's a selling tactics or what.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Sounds that that rumor started early in the dealer circle. Not sure if that's a selling tactics or what.



It just doesn't make sense. Why would they even give one in Okotoks and then only one at Brasso?

----------


## rage2

> Sounds that that rumor started early in the dealer circle. Not sure if that's a selling tactics or what.



Was told last night from someone at one of the bigger Nissan dealerships that they’re only getting 1 proto as well. Doubt they need selling tactics, demand is vastly outstripping supply right now.

----------


## 94boosted

Orders for the car are now live on Nissan's website: https://www.nissan.ca/z-reservation.html#reserve

Luckily I got my confirmation yesterday  :ROFL!:

----------


## jutes

> Orders for the car are now live on Nissan's website: https://www.nissan.ca/z-reservation.html#reserve
> 
> Luckily I got my confirmation yesterday 
> ]



Selling the 1LE? I hear they are junk  :Angel:

----------


## 94boosted

> Selling the 1LE? I hear they are junk



Heck no, the 1LE just got re-classed from BS to FS by the SCCA this year so I'm hanging onto it for at least this season as well.

----------


## tcon

Damn, was a little late to the party and missed reservations.
I imagine if any show up on dealer lots they will be 2x the price lol

----------


## richardchan2002

> Damn, was a little late to the party and missed reservations.
> I imagine if any show up on dealer lots they will be 2x the price lol



Don’t worry, the markups will be short lived.

----------


## Xtrema



----------


## Gman.45

Loving that sound in that new vid. Seeing all the Z car gens in one spot was boss. Love to have a 240z like the ones at the HQ, see them for sale in the US here and there. I hope the 400 is successful for Nissan.

----------


## 94boosted

Sounds pretty good from inside, I wonder how much of that is fake.

----------


## Ukyo8

> Sounds pretty good from inside, I wonder how much of that is fake.



That sounds like mostly speaker to me.

----------


## DonJuan

I wish these reviewers will stop talking about the katana sword... Its a piece of plastic trim

I also hope this car is successful

----------


## bjstare

That car will probably be a highly enjoyable drive.

Per usual, annoyed with the youtuber commentary. He's acting like it accelerates like a pagani. 400hp carting around 3300lb is no slouch, but hardly schoolgirl-giggle inducing material.

----------


## 94boosted

> That car will probably be a highly enjoyable drive.
> 
> Per usual, annoyed with the youtuber commentary. He's acting like it accelerates like a pagani. 400hp carting around *3536lbs* is no slouch, but hardly schoolgirl-giggle inducing material.



FTFY

Sadly she's a bit of a porker, especially compared with the Zupra

----------


## bjstare

> FTFY
> 
> Sadly she's a bit of a porker, especially compared with the Zupra



Wow, it is indeed a porker. It's probably been discussed in this thread, but it's not meant to compete with the Supra, it it? I don't know enough about either car, but I would've thought the Supra was in a higher market segment.

----------


## 94boosted

> Wow, it is indeed a porker. It's probably been discussed in this thread, but it's not meant to compete with the Supra, it it? I don't know enough about either car, but I would've thought the Supra was in a higher market segment.



I think it does indeed compete against the Supra. Though it's a couple hundred pounds heavier, it makes slightly more power (all be it slightly less torque) and both now have a proper LSD. Though it'll likely be a little slower than the Supra.

----------


## Sentry

At least it looks like a Z now and not a hairdresser car. I dig it.

----------


## Disoblige

370z was chubby so not surprised this is as well. I mean, I was not expecting it to be lighter.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

It's a Japanese take on an American muscle car, like it has been for decades. It is what it is - and always has been!
Quelle sUrPrIsE!!

I absolutely loved my Z and I think Nissan has always had a unique spot with this vehicle. Making me wish I bought a 370Z when their prices tanked and Turbo'd it.
I like some things about this car, but overall it's not for me.

----------


## bjstare

> I think it does indeed compete against the Supra. Though it's a couple hundred pounds heavier, it makes slightly more power (all be it slightly less torque) and both now have a proper LSD. Though it'll likely be a little slower than the Supra.



Yeah that makes sense - I was talking about price. I haven't researched at all, I just kind of assumed this will be like $20k less than the Supra. I could be out to lunch thou.  :dunno:

----------


## 94boosted

> Yeah that makes sense - I was talking about price. I haven't researched at all, I just kind of assumed this will be like $20k less than the Supra. I could be out to lunch thou.



Yah Nissan sure is taking their sweet time to announce pricing. It's all but confirmed that it will start around $40K USD, but that's all that's known.

----------


## dirtsniffer

they are probably pretty lucky they didn't announce price last year. I'm guessing the cost has gone up 15-20% and it will be around $55-60k here for a performance model.

----------


## dimi

I don't know. I look at this and think the Supra is the better car in every way.

----------


## Inzane

> I don't know. I look at this and think the Supra is the better car in every way.



Even looks?

----------


## riander5

> It's a Japanese take on an American muscle car, like it has been for decades. It is what it is - and always has been!
> Quelle sUrPrIsE!!
> 
> I absolutely loved my Z and I think Nissan has always had a unique spot with this vehicle. Making me wish I bought a 370Z when their prices tanked and Turbo'd it.
> I like some things about this car, but overall it's not for me.



I saw a 370z the other day and thought the same thing. They are rare enough to see now they are almost kind of special..... almost!

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> I saw a 370z the other day and thought the same thing. They are rare enough to see now they are almost kind of special..... almost!



LoL! I just remember ~2017 they dropped the base price to like $32k and with an added turbo you're looking at 500whp in a pretty functional 2 door.
But oh well... I get to stay in Killy's good books and Buster's too (as long as we don't talk about VQ sound).

Does anyone have pics of the fuel door on the 400z? I recall early leaked terrible pictures made me think it was the size of a basketball. Curious to see real picture.
Not curious enough to look for myself, apparently...

----------


## Gman.45

> It's a Japanese take on an American muscle car, like it has been for decades. It is what it is - and always has been!
> Quelle sUrPrIsE!!
> 
> I absolutely loved my Z and I think Nissan has always had a unique spot with this vehicle. Making me wish I bought a 370Z when their prices tanked and Turbo'd it.
> I like some things about this car, but overall it's not for me.



Tell me about it! Before the car market went berserk, there was a list 2 pages long for 2017 370z cars with low KM (like 20 to 40k, which was what I was looking for as a project car to do a mildish boost, exhaust, etc, the usual suspects mods). I almost closed on one that was $22,000. Now they are typically $8k to $10k more. Booooo. I really like the 370 despite its age.

Regarding the Supra, most guys who have dyno'd theirs have found that the HP has been widely underreported, 20-30+hp seems to be a frequent number I hear in vids/posts for 2020 models. The 2021 book number was 388hp, and one stock one on YT put down 398 to the wheels. Car and Driver had their 2021 Supra run 3.7 to 60 and a 12.2 QM run. 

It'll be interesting to see how the 400z compares to those numbers, as well as the price obviously. For me, it'll be the experience in the car that'll sell me, the numbers don't matter nearly as much as I've gotten older.

----------


## JohnnyHockey13

As someone who owned quite a few different Nissan/Infinitis in my 20s and 30s, I did own a 370z for 3.5 years before I got bored and made a switch to my current car, a 135i. 

As much as I miss the interior of the 370z and the looks of the outside, performance wise, especially in fun factor and how the car feels and drives, the BMW wins hands down. Before my 135i, I actually bought a 2008 Mini Cooper S beforehand and at that time, hadn't sold my Z yet and even then, it was a world of difference between the MCS and 370Z, getting back into the Z felt like driving a FWD economy car the steering was so light....I don't think I'll ever go Japanese again if I wanted fun-factor/handling. 

The 370Z is the best looking of the 3 though, and this new 400, looks awesome from a old guy standpoint (I love how more bland looking it is haha)...the Zs are also likely the most reliable sports car you can buy so theres that too.

----------


## 94boosted

> I don't know. I look at this and think the Supra is the better car in every way.



All depends on price, if the Z undercuts the Supra by $15K, the Supra will be even less appealing than it already is. The Z coming with a proper manual transmission is a huge perk in my opinion.

----------


## Xtrema

> Even looks?



I like how Supra looks. Would be sweet if they release a Targa version like that SEMA concept.

----------


## heavyD

> All depends on price, if the Z undercuts the Supra by $15K, the Supra will be even less appealing than it already is. The Z coming with a proper manual transmission is a huge perk in my opinion.



It's going to undercut the Supra but not by much as it's going to start at around $40k USD for the base model and the Supra is also getting a manual transmission in the fall.

----------


## Disoblige

Damn if they release a Targa supra... Z what?

----------


## dimi

No way Nissan is leaving $15k on the table, it'll start low 60s. I still take the supra looks, chassis, bmw I6>V6, zf8>zf9.

----------


## danno

What about t top 400z that would be sick, targa Supra would be so awsome. Not that I’d buy either.

----------


## 94boosted

> It's going to undercut the Supra but not by much as it's going to start at around $40k USD for the base model and the Supra is also getting a manual transmission in the fall.



The Supra starts at $51.6K USD and $68.5K CAD. Besides, a manual Supra hasn't been formally confirmed yet. As for Nissan's pricing......

----------


## heavyD

Not clear what is the relevance of 370Z pricing. The Supra manual is a done deal and the announcement a mere formality.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a3...a-manual-2022/

----------


## 94boosted

It's simply to show that $40K USD doesn't necessarily equal $50.5K CAD, if Nissan's previous pricing differences between the US and Canadian markets mean anything. Even if not, there's still going to be somewhere around a $12K USD difference in base price between the two cars, unless Toyota significantly reduces the MSRP for the manual Supra.

----------


## Xtrema

> It's simply to show that $40K USD doesn't necessarily equal $50.5K CAD, if Nissan's previous pricing differences between the US and Canadian markets mean anything. Even if not, there's still going to be somewhere around a $12K USD difference in base price between the two cars, unless Toyota significantly reduces the MSRP for the manual Supra.



I still think we can't use 370Z pricing as a guide. We live in a post pandemic world where a Wrangler Rubicon is $60K+.

I think new Z will start awfully close to Supra 2.0's starting price.

And Nissan may have 2023 all to themselves because Supra production has stopped thanks to shit show in Ukraine and who's left in this price range? Mustang GT?




> What about t top 400z that would be sick, targa Supra would be so awsome. Not that I’d buy either.



I think it's mostly nostalgia talking but I would pick up one if either offers it.

----------


## 94boosted

> I think new Z will start awfully close to Supra 2.0's starting price.



The Supra 2.0 starts at ~56K CAD, I'd be willing to bet that the Z undercuts even that price for the base car. Hopefully we'll find out any day now.

----------


## dimi

I think you have the wrong trend man. Cars are not getting cheaper, they're getting a lot more expensive. 

Why in the world would Nissan be undercutting anyone, when they'll likely sell out (or have already sold out) of this car for a few years.

----------


## dirtsniffer

Supra is getting a manual, announced today. Looking forward to it

----------


## 94boosted

> I think you have the wrong trend man. Cars are not getting cheaper, they're getting a lot more expensive. 
> 
> Why in the world would Nissan be undercutting anyone, when they'll likely sell out (or have already sold out) of this car for a few years.



Yup, not disputing that. Keep in mind the last Z started at $30K CAD. We'll see soon enough what it comes in at. 



I hope we see some reviews soon.

----------


## EM2FTL

> Yup, not disputing that. Keep in mind the last Z started at $30K CAD. We'll see soon enough what it comes in at. 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope we see some reviews soon.



The last Z didn't start out at $30k though, as noted in this thread it was a price drop in 2017 due to the age of the chassis - IIRC the base price was ~$40k before then. 

I'm interested in these but IMO $50K is nuts for a base model considering what these cars are.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> The last Z didn't start out at $30k though, as noted in this thread it was a price drop in 2017 due to the age of the chassis - IIRC the base price was ~$40k before then. 
> 
> I'm interested in these but IMO $50K is nuts for a base model considering what these cars are.



True. The Z I bought was from an OG who was on the waitlist in 2003. He paid at least $48k and around $50k was the going rate until the shocking drop of the 370z in ~2017.
It was firmly on the $50k bracket for the majority of its run.
AT THE TIME...

----------


## killramos

lol

----------


## dirtsniffer

Double lol

https://www.fishcreeknissancalgary.c..._redirect=true

----------


## 94boosted

> The last Z didn't start out at $30k though, as noted in this thread it was a price drop in 2017 due to the age of the chassis - IIRC the base price was ~$40k before then. 
> 
> I'm interested in these but IMO $50K is nuts for a base model considering what these cars are.



Yup for sure, it is a parts bin car rolling on largely the same chassis. If they price it anywhere near the Supra it'll be a flop.

----------


## Darkane

> Double lol
> 
> https://www.fishcreeknissancalgary.c..._redirect=true



And it’s in worse shape than it looks. Lol.

----------


## jutes

What is the mindset of people who are desperate enough to buy sports cars in this market. Can you not live with a normal vehicle for a while?

----------


## ExtraSlow

Is that fish Creek Nissan car just renders? Is that car even real? Too bad you can't pay cash...



> Disclaimer: 
> 
> Due to an increase in fraudulent transactions, Fish Creek Nissan reserves the right to decline any form of payment. This includes but is not limited to Cash, Bank, Draft, Certified Cheque, and Credit Card. We are sorry for any inconvenience this may cause. All our vehicles may be financed* , please ask us about our competitive rates. *Financing available on approved credit.

----------


## EM2FTL

lmfao 

https://www.kijijiautos.ca/cars/niss.../#vip=24696311

----------


## riander5

> lmfao 
> 
> https://www.kijijiautos.ca/cars/niss.../#vip=24696311



That makes the nismo look like a wicked deal

I always wanted a Nismo 370z when I was younger. Still think they are pretty cool... not for those prices tho. Those are base model f150 prices!

----------


## Xtrema

> What is the mindset of people who are desperate enough to buy sports cars in this market. Can you not live with a normal vehicle for a while?



It's an "investment"

----------


## Yolobimmer

I feel like 400hp just isn't near enough these days.

Weren't they working on a tiny 3 cylinder 600hp engine? That would have been more suitable I think.

----------


## Buster

> What is the mindset of people who are desperate enough to buy sports cars in this market. Can you not live with a normal vehicle for a while?



Ridgelines are baws

----------


## Yolobimmer

This is the engine they should have used.

----------


## DonJuan

Looks like Japan pricing has been set, and a delay on the release date to summer.

https://www.motor1.com/news/581912/n...elayed-summer/

TLDR:
"...start at ¥5,241,500 ($41,081). either the six-speed manual or nine-speed automatic gearbox.
two top specs, the Version ST and Proto Spec, start at ¥6,462,500 and ¥6,966,300 ($50,650 and $54,599), respectively, regardless of the gearbox.

The only price difference in Japan is between the Version S and the Version T. The Version S is equipped with the manual transmission, and it starts at ¥6,063,200 ($47,521). The Version T comes with the auto and starts at a cheaper ¥5,687,000 ($44,572). Both are mid-range trims."

I'm still leaning GR Corolla at this pricing, but only because I'm more in the market for a fun daily. I could see this being big in warmer US climates.

----------


## 94boosted

> Looks like Japan pricing has been set, and a delay on the release date to summer.
> 
> https://www.motor1.com/news/581912/n...elayed-summer/
> 
> TLDR:
> "...start at ¥5,241,500 ($41,081). either the six-speed manual or nine-speed automatic gearbox.
> two top specs, the Version ST and Proto Spec, start at ¥6,462,500 and ¥6,966,300 ($50,650 and $54,599), respectively, regardless of the gearbox.
> 
> The only price difference in Japan is between the Version S and the Version T. The Version S is equipped with the manual transmission, and it starts at ¥6,063,200 ($47,521). The Version T comes with the auto and starts at a cheaper ¥5,687,000 ($44,572). Both are mid-range trims."
> ...



I believe the Japanese "ST" is equivalent to the Performance trim in North America. If so that would put it only a grand (US) less than the Supra 3.0 ($51.6K USD MSRP). That would be a tough sell at that price imo. 

Looks like press drives are finally starting https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...speedway.1070/

----------


## bjstare

This thing is going to fail if it’s priced that close to the supra. 

That being said, if it depreciates like a Nissan, it’ll be a good used buy.

----------


## heavyD

> This thing is going to fail if it’s priced that close to the supra. 
> 
> That being said, if it depreciates like a Nissan, it’ll be a good used buy.



Have to wait and see what the north american pricing goes. You would think Nissan would be smart enough to price it considerably lower than the Supra as it's not like they had to put a lot of development into this car as it's basically a reskinned 370Z with a new drivetrain.

----------


## 94boosted

:Werd!: 

Sounds like pricing on May 16th and press embargo lifted on May 18th, if the Z forums are to be believed.

----------


## DonJuan

> Have to wait and see what the north american pricing goes. You would think Nissan would be smart enough to price it considerably lower than the Supra as it's not like they had to put a lot of development into this car as it's basically a reskinned 370Z with a new drivetrain.



I would think so too. They did something similar when the GT86/BRZ came out and offered a less optioned version of the 350Z to compete with it's price point. Agree this is just a restyling of the 370z with a new engine combo from the parts bin, but isn't that how some of the best muscle cars were made? Current platform is old tech but still a capable sports car, lets just throw a different engine at it. All the Q60S buyers that complain about no manual and trade em in.

I think the marketing team just decided to have field day with the whole renaming, all new, katana sword meh.

----------


## richardchan2002

https://jalopnik.com/2023-nissan-z-i...1848849717/amp

Unconfirmed but based on leaks it looks like the 400Z is ~200 lbs heavier than the 370Z?

~3300-3400 has now become ~3500-3600 lbs

----------


## 94boosted

I think the ~3500lbs has been known for a while, but it's not exactly 200lbs heavier than the 370Z. The Performance trim is equivalent to the Touring Sport trim.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

Fat people never lose weight, either.

----------


## DonJuan

> https://jalopnik.com/2023-nissan-z-i...1848849717/amp
> 
> Unconfirmed but based on leaks it looks like the 400Z is ~200 lbs heavier than the 370Z?
> 
> ~3300-3400 has now become ~3500-3600 lbs



I just realized that this is exactly 1000lbs heavier than my car with me in it. But I don't have any much comforts like AC, or reliability.

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

> reliability



Whoa whoa whoa. Lets not get ahead of ourselves here, this is a Nissan product.

----------


## pheoxs

Damn 3500lbs is 1.5 Miatas.

----------


## DonJuan

Nissan product to Nissan product.

If there is too much humidity, my car doesn't like to start.

On really hot days and hard driving I lose brakes.

Most of the time when I do drive it, I play the what's that smell/sound game.

----------


## bjstare

> Damn 3500lbs is 1.5 Miatas.



Yeah, but 400hp is like... 5 Miatas at our elevation.

----------


## killramos

Yea but what’s the payload rating

----------


## Xtrema

> Whoa whoa whoa. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here, this is a Nissan product.



https://www.infinitiq60.org/threads/...failure.14418/




> Hey guys! So I went to a local cruise/meet and got to know some really great guys. One of the guys is the shop foreman for the local Infiniti Dealer Service department. He let me know that they are replacing at least one turbo a week on the Twin Turbo Q50/Q60 due to the lack of a blow off valve system or recirculation system. He said that the earliest he's seen a failure is at aroung 15K miles, and it starts with a whirring/whistling sound that gradually gets louder. My car has about 6k miles but I would swear I have always heard a slight whirring/whistling sound coming from my car and I think it actually sounds cool. Anyone have any turbo issues/replacements etc?



I assume they had sorted this out 4 years later? Someone I know had a 2019 Q60 Red Sport also ditched it after 1st turbo replacement. Thought it was one off but doesn't seem like it.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Whoa whoa whoa. Lets not get ahead of ourselves here, this is a Nissan product.



Killy has an alt!

----------


## killramos

A man of taste

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> A man of taste



I bet riander doesn't like them, either.
You M-car guys are forming a vicious clique!

----------


## DonJuan

> I bet riander doesn't like them, either.
> You M-car guys are vicious *homosexuals!*



Fixed  :Wink:

----------


## killramos

I dunno what you guys are talking about. I drive an X5 minivan…

What’s an M car?

----------


## Twin_Cam_Turbo

M car haha that’s rich. I drive a diesel economy car.

----------


## 94boosted

> https://www.infinitiq60.org/threads/...failure.14418/
> 
> 
> 
> I assume they had sorted this out 4 years later? Someone I know had a 2019 Q60 Red Sport also ditched it after 1st turbo replacement. Thought it was one off but doesn't seem like it.



According to https://www.motortrend.com/features/...hanges?slide=1 there appears to be a recirc valve which dumps pressurized air just upstream of the turbo..... 




> To suit the more thrill-seeking driver of a Nissan Z, there's a new engine-boost recirculation circuit. When the throttle is lifted or closes brieflyas when entering a curveturbine pressure is routed right back to the inlet to keep the turbine spooled so full power can be available the instant the driver's foot returns to the throttle.

----------


## riander5

> I bet riander doesn't like them, either.
> You M-car guys are forming a vicious clique!



What can I say? They hate us cause they ain't us! M* power!

----------


## Xtrema

https://www.drive.com.au/news/2023-n...ore-than-370z/

Yikes. Australian price but it could be a good indication where the new Z pricing is going.

----------


## vengie

Good way to flop the car right from the get-go.

No way someone will pay $70k for these.

----------


## Ukyo8

> https://www.drive.com.au/news/2023-n...ore-than-370z/
> 
> Yikes. Australian price but it could be a good indication where the new Z pricing is going.



Australian pricing is notoriously high, we don't pay as much here.
As an example a 2LT C8 corvette starts at $80,998 CAD, while in Australia it starts at $144,990 AUD

I'm sure we'll see a price increase here, but nothing as severe as Australia.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Australian pricing is notoriously high, we don't pay as much here.
> As an example a 2LT C8 corvette starts at $80,998 CAD, while in Australia it starts at $144,990 AUD
> 
> I'm sure we'll see a price increase here, but nothing as severe as Australia.



Beat me to it.^

I don't see their motivation to price it much above previous Z's which has been <$55k Canadian.

----------


## 94boosted

It's official. $49,990USD for the Performance trim. A $10,000 premium over the Sport trim  :ROFL!:  

https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/rel...tart-at-39990#

----------


## 94boosted

Also looks like $58.5K CAD for the Performance. Just based on a review, can't find official info. At over $60K otd, I think Nissan messed up.

----------


## Disoblige

Guess I'll wait 10 years for the "Enthusiast Edition" where it'll be $40k (inflation).

----------


## heavyD

As predicted no match for the B58/ZF8 combination. That Mustang though. The Mach 1 is basically as GT-350 with the Coyote engine so maybe not surprising.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

Savagegeese video:

----------


## bjstare

Cammisa had mostly good things to say about it, but said the new GT86 is way better and he'd rather have one of those. I think that says a lot.

----------


## riander5

> As predicted no match for the B58/ZF8 combination. That Mustang though. The Mach 1 is basically as GT-350 with the Coyote engine so maybe not surprising.



God damn theyve certainly upped the production quality in these. Cool video

----------


## Buster

> As predicted no match for the B58/ZF8 combination. That Mustang though. The Mach 1 is basically as GT-350 with the Coyote engine so maybe not surprising.



I like how they left the Tesla Plaid numbers up there for precisely a micro-second.

----------


## Gman.45

Saw a couple other reviews today, the auto one reviewer got 4.7s zero to sixty and that was at the track on a car that'd been running around all day already. 10 minute mark. This reviewer with the manual had a similar experience to what Camissa was talking about - wheel spin like crazy out of the hole.

Doug Demuro's review is up, he was very impressed with it, said it felt faster than the latest Supra, he felt that cornering was great as was handling in general. Wasn't as thrilled with the clutch and shifter feel, but overall said it was a great car. If it's cheaper than the Supra, should be interesting to see how it sells.

----------


## riander5

Will be very interesting....

The Supra is wild looking, definitely feels like maybe a bit too much? The 400z to me feels like almost not enough, pretty pedestrian in design.

If only they both had the Integra design team... who knows what would have been possible

----------


## Inzane

> As predicted no match for the B58/ZF8 combination.



3.8s & 12.1 @ 117 vs 4.0s & 12.3 @ 116... Honestly I could live with that 0.2s deficit and not lose any sleep over it. Its actually closer than I expected it to be.

----------


## 94boosted

Savagegeese review is up and as usual is very thorough and well done. They seem quite smitten by it as a drivers car. 

https://youtu.be/ekEM3VyaDow




> 3.8s & 12.1 @ 117 vs 4.0s & 12.3 @ 116... Honestly I could live with that 0.2s deficit and not lose any sleep over it. Its actually closer than I expected it to be.



Closer than I thought it would be as well. With the same tires, it would be even closer me thinks.

----------


## Buster

It sounds like maybe the auto is the way to go with this car?

----------


## Toms-SC

The Mach 1 A10 is tuned well. I recently attended a roll racing event and beat out a manual Mach 1 with the Tremec using the no-lift shift feature. I've fast-forwarded the video to the race. There is another point of view at 10:52. 

https://youtu.be/P7JEQsbM-v0?t=463

----------


## Kloubek

> It sounds like maybe the auto is the way to go with this car?



If performance is the name of the game, I think that applies generally speaking to ALL cars these days. (CVT notwithstanding, of course)

----------


## Buster

TIL - roll racing events exist.

----------


## Toms-SC

Similar to Calgary, Salt Lake City tore down their 1/4 mile track. We've got a motorsport campus that is trying its best to bridge the gap by offering this event and using the funds to save for a 1/8th mile drag strip.

----------


## GTi-RS

All-new 2023 Nissan Z MSRP to start at CA$46,498 


https://canada.nissannews.com/en-CA/...rt-at-ca46498#

----------


## rage2

> Rumors from R&T says Nissan is planning on undercutting the Supra heavily for the base Z. $35k USD start, so roughly $45k CAD start. That's dirt cheap for a 400hp 3300lb sports car if true.






> All-new 2023 Nissan Z MSRP to start at CA$46,498 
> 
> https://canada.nissannews.com/en-CA/...rt-at-ca46498#



R&T plus exchange rate guess got pretty close.

----------


## dimi

So basically if you can live without the LSD/BBK, it's a bargain. If you need those, I would just go Supra, as it's overall the better car. I'm also pretty sure no dealer is going to have/order the base version.

----------


## 94boosted

> It sounds like maybe the auto is the way to go with this car?



Not if you're going to track it or drive it in any sort of a "spirited" way. Seems like the 9AT was overheating after just a couple laps and the shifts are sluggish when driven hard. Auto may be fastest in a straight line, but that's probably it. 

I'll be curious to see how much slower the manual Supra is compared with the ZF8. Though I think when C&D compared the manual vs auto M2 Comp the manual was somehow slightly quicker.

----------


## Inzane

> All-new 2023 Nissan Z MSRP to start at CA$46,498 
> 
> 
> https://canada.nissannews.com/en-CA/...rt-at-ca46498#



Right around what I thought... was expecting ~ $45k-50k base and ~ $55k-60k performance.

----------


## vengie

Maybe I'm out of touch with the market these days but that seems very expensive.

----------


## richardchan2002

> As predicted no match for the B58/ZF8 combination. That Mustang though. The Mach 1 is basically as GT-350 with the Coyote engine so maybe not surprising.



I learned how fast the Ram TRX is in this video. Big props to the 1991 GMC Cyclone too!

----------


## Inzane

> Maybe I'm out of touch with the market these days but that seems very expensive.



For what it’s worth, those are similar prices to what the Z32 300ZX cost on release (in 1990 dollars though). $45k-ish for the NA, and $55k-ish for the TT.

----------


## heavyD

Someone brought up another thread about Nissan being trash so probably good timing for this post. Looks like Nissan neutered the engine a bit with ECU nannies to ensure the engine and clutch last through the warranty period. Jason starts talking about this at the 5:00 mark. Just a few highlights as this is the stuff that early reviewers didn't disclose.

Says it's not built like a BMW or Porsche to withstand heavy beating on a track.Says it kills power mid-slide if you hit the limiter, resulting in an unexpected directional change and/or looping the car due to the short
wheelbase.ECU will not allow a brake stand style burnout.ECU pulls power when trying to shift quickly (without flat-foot shift mode turned on) in an attempt to save the clutch.Hitting the limiter cuts power significantly as opposed to modern ECU's that lets you bounce off of it.ECU won't allow the engine to rev up quickly in neutral when stopped.
Some of this is not ideal but you get what you pay for. Buy cheaper car, receive a cheaper car.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Says it's not built like a BMW or Porsche to withstand heavy beating on a track.Says it kills power mid-slide if you hit the limiter, resulting in an unexpected directional change and/or looping the car due to the short
> wheelbase.ECU will not allow a brake stand style burnout.ECU pulls power when trying to shift quickly (without flat-foot shift mode turned on) in an attempt to save the clutch.Hitting the limiter cuts power significantly as opposed to modern ECU's that lets you bounce off of it.ECU won't allow the engine to rev up quickly in neutral when stopped.
> Some of this is not ideal but you get what you pay for. Buy cheaper car, receive a cheaper car.



Sorry, did you watch a _63 minute_ video about a Nissan?!!? That's like a vegan eating bacon in their closet at 3AM! LoL WtF?!!
I turned that video off within the first minute, right when he said something about forgetting the name of Hagerty Network or whatever. Considering I have Nissan tattooed on my forehead and i named my kids Sentra & Maxima, I think that makes your behaviour strange.

Based on your synopsis, it sounds like a rev limiter that limits rev's (Le Shocking) and a variety of other nanny bullshit that stops their customers from fucking the car, all packaged in a street car that isn't a race car. 
Do they actually compare it to a BMW? Which one? The one that throws a CEL that only the dealer can turn off if you exceed 85% throttle before the cat's are deemed to be warm enough? Did they compare it to that track demon? Did they compare it to a $45k BMW (if such a thing exists)?

I trust that your synopsis is accurate and that video was not a good investment to watch.

----------


## 94boosted

> Someone brought up another thread about Nissan being trash so probably good timing for this post. Looks like Nissan neutered the engine a bit with ECU nannies to ensure the engine and clutch last through the warranty period. Jason starts talking about this at the 5:00 mark. Just a few highlights as this is the stuff that early reviewers didn't disclose.
> 
> Says it's not built like a BMW or Porsche to withstand heavy beating on a track.Says it kills power mid-slide if you hit the limiter, resulting in an unexpected directional change and/or looping the car due to the short
> wheelbase.ECU will not allow a brake stand style burnout.ECU pulls power when trying to shift quickly (without flat-foot shift mode turned on) in an attempt to save the clutch.Hitting the limiter cuts power significantly as opposed to modern ECU's that lets you bounce off of it.ECU won't allow the engine to rev up quickly in neutral when stopped.
> Some of this is not ideal but you get what you pay for. Buy cheaper car, receive a cheaper car.



 :Barf:  that's really disappointing. They also mentioned ice mode which if you've ever experienced on track or autocross is an awful thing.

----------


## zechs

The ecu will get cracked and all that crap will be bypassed. Or an aftermarket ecu company will provide an ecu that is plug and play.

$45k for that thing is a steal, I can only imagine what a monster it will be with nothing more than a tune.

Ultimate new streetcar for "cheap" if it pans out, probably 500-550hp with just a tune. With the way things are going, likely the last hurrah for a basic rwd ICE stick car before hybrid/EV take over.

----------


## Disoblige

I never wanted a Supra before. After seeing a few on the road and this as an option, Supra looks great.

----------


## killramos

I’m not sure which I dislike more.

The Nissan or the Supra

----------


## bjstare

I like the supra more and more as time goes by. This, as typical for a Nissan, is getting less attractive the more I learn about it. 

All that programming nonsense will be super easy to bypass, but I bet when it gets turned off the car self destructs.

----------


## riander5

> I like the supra more and more as time goes by. This, as typical for a Nissan, is getting less attractive the more I learn about it. 
> 
> All that programming nonsense will be super easy to bypass, but I bet when it gets turned off the car self destructs.



Agree with this, at first I didn't care for it at all. It's kinda grown on me. And it's miles better than the 400z IMO

----------


## dimi

Not sure how many people are going to tune a brand new car and lose their warranty... might as well just buy the car that's better in every way and doesn't have any of these issues.

----------


## Buster

Did Nissan de-tune for reliability or to prep for a high performance version

----------


## DonJuan

> Did Nissan de-tune for reliability or to prep for a high performance version



Probably to make a Nismo edition relevant, or to not cross compete with Q60 Red Sport?

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> Probably to make a Nismo edition relevant, or to not cross compete with Q60 Red Sport?



Which thread did someone mention the RedSports eating turbo's at a horrifying rate?
If that's true, there's nothing scarier about this car than that. Damn, I should've bought that CR mag as initial reliability is key.

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## rage2

> Which thread did someone mention the RedSports eating turbo's at a horrifying rate?
> If that's true, there's nothing scarier about this car than that. Damn, I should've bought that CR mag as initial reliability is key.



The turbo issues were fixed years ago. Only affected first 2 years of that engine iirc.

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## DonJuan

> Damn, I should've bought that CR mag as initial reliability is key.



Mother fuking coffee on my away flames jersey. thanks

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## ThePenIsMightier

> The turbo issues were fixed years ago. Only affected first 2 years of that engine iirc.



Shit - has that thing been out 2 years, already??!
I need to turn in my FanBoi card...

----------


## rage2

> Shit - has that thing been out 2 years, already??!
> I need to turn in my FanBoi card...



haha

It’s a good engine, I test drove the infiniti RS 400, great engine, minimal lag, but overall terrible braking and handling. People didn’t like the car so they were selling them dirt cheap back then. Our CFO picked one up and loves it because it was so cheap. They were blowing them out 15k under MSRP at the time. They already updated the turbos by then as well. Great bang for the buck.

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## ThePenIsMightier

> haha
> 
> Its a good engine, I test drove the infiniti RS 400, great engine, minimal lag, but overall terrible braking and handling. People didnt like the car so they were selling them dirt cheap back then. Our CFO picked one up and loves it because it was so cheap. They were blowing them out 15k under MSRP at the time. They already updated the turbos by then as well. Great bang for the buck.



I have a friend with the RedSport in a gorgeous colour and although I haven't been in it, that engine looks incredible on paper. I wonder if his is new enough to avoid the issue.
To me, it seemed like he got one of the first ones, but I have also noticed that time is passing at an exponential rate.

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## heavyD

> I have a friend with the RedSport in a gorgeous colour and although I haven't been in it, that engine looks incredible on paper. I wonder if his is new enough to avoid the issue.
> To me, it seemed like he got one of the first ones, but I have also noticed that time is *passing at an exponential rate.*



Impossible. From the beginning of the universe to the present day, time is one of the few constants that never changes. You don't even need to read CR to know this.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Stephen Hawking disagrees.

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## DonJuan

Einstein also said time is relative. Perhaps 
@Pen
 is actually only about 4" tall max?

----------


## Gman.45

Doug Demuro on YT just reviewed the new Supra with the manual transmission. That is the car I'd probably get of the 4 (400z at/mt and Supra at/mt). I set in a Supra in a show room, and really liked the cockpit and interior, not as much as the 2021 Corvette interior that was there too, but close. The Supra's looks have grown on me as well, and IMO that IL6 is a good motor, and now with a MT, let the good times roll.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3I-DUVfmJA

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## Inzane

How far do you go comparing a car that starts at $68k+ CDN, vs one that starts around $45-50k CDN?

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## ThePenIsMightier

> How far do you go comparing a car that starts at $68k+ CDN, vs one that starts around $45-50k CDN?



Shush you!!
I heard its LSD still is worse than a RWD *Huracan!

*Which is "really just a VW" just ask anyone who doesn't own one. LoL!!

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## 94boosted

> How far do you go comparing a car that starts at $68k+ CDN, vs one that starts around $45-50k CDN?



That's not an apples to apples comparison though as the Z Sport trim doesn't get any of the goodies. The Z Performance at $58.5K CAD is the one that better compares to the Supra.

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## Inzane

> That's not an apples to apples comparison though as the Z Sport trim doesn't get any of the goodies. The Z Performance at $58.5K CAD is the one that better compares to the Supra.



Agreed. But at a delta of still ~$10k you can forgive the Z for some of its shortcomings.

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## killramos

Can you though?

----------


## zechs

> Can you though?



Sure, at an almost 15% price differential you can.

I mean, compare the Supra to an $80k car and see if it stacks up?

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## bjstare

> Sure, at an almost 15% price differential you can.
> 
> I mean, compare the Supra to an $80k car and see if it stacks up?



Isn’t the comparable trim z4 around $80k?

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## killramos

> Sure, at an almost 15% price differential you can.
> 
> I mean, compare the Supra to an $80k car and see if it stacks up?



Imagine justifying buying your car to people by saying “well it was 15% cheaper than the supra”

How about cars just be good enough to stand on their own two feet instead of only being good in a relative sense.

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## zechs

> Isnt the comparable trim z4 around $80k?



 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

10chars

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## Inzane

> How about cars just be good enough to stand on their own two feet instead of only being good in a relative sense.



Right. So using your exact framing, that would mean..

Is the new Z a good sub-$60k car?

NOT

How does the new Z stack up against the new Supra?

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## killramos

How about. Is it a good car.

Sounds pretty meh to me.

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## Disoblige

No one compares much to the Supra. It stands on its own.
You buy a 400Z and everyone gonna compare it. Nuff said.

I can see a lot of ppl buying a 400Z on the secondary market later though.

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## JRSC00LUDE

> Stephen Hawking disagrees.



Yeah and now he's dead.

----------


## Buster

> No one compares much to the Supra. It stands on its own.
> You buy a 400Z and everyone gonna compare it. Nuff said.
> 
> I can see a lot of ppl buying a 400Z on the secondary market later though.



Don't they compare it to the BMW under its skin?

----------


## killramos

How does one buy a car on the secondary market later when no one buys it in the first place?

Asking for SKR

----------


## Shlade

Saw one today in red on deerfoot. 

That horrible mazda looking front end sucks.

----------


## 94boosted

> Saw one today in red on deerfoot. 
> 
> That horrible mazda looking front end sucks.



That's the one making rounds to all the Nissan dealerships. It was at Fish Creek Nissan on May 17th.

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## richardchan2002

> Saw one today in red on deerfoot. 
> 
> That horrible mazda looking front end sucks.



I agree, the rear looks good, the side profile is Ok but the front just looks cheap and ugly.

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## DonJuan

> I agree, the rear looks good, the side profile is Ok but the front just looks cheap and ugly.



They gotta do something with that front bumper... that big rectangle opening looks like such an after thought.

----------


## Inzane

> They gotta do something with that front bumper... that big rectangle opening looks like such an after thought.

----------


## cam_wmh

fuck, that looks great actually.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

I simply must see one of these in real life to get some perspective on if that fuel door is the size of a basketball or volleyball.

----------


## heavyD

> I simply must see one of these in real life to get some perspective on if that fuel door is the size of a basketball or volleyball.



Basketball and Volleyball is slightly exaggerating its size. It's more along the size of a handball which is about 7.5" in diameter.

----------


## ExtraSlow

> I simply must see one of these in real life to get some perspective on if that fuel door is the size of a basketball or volleyball.



That's the EV charging port

----------


## bjstare

> fuck, that looks great actually.



Yeah that looks really good.

----------


## DonJuan

That split vent design that 
@Inzane
 posted, has to be made. That's hawt

----------


## vengie

If they can figure out the driver nannies this car will be cool.
Price is the only question .

----------


## DonJuan

I doubt Nissan will pull the driver nannies they put in, except for a Nismo edition possibly. Even then I think the aftermarket will have that ECU cracked within a few months.
I am VERY tempted to daily one of these, but 2 seats is kind of a deal breaker. (Not that I am advocating for a 2+2, I'm definitely not)

----------


## BavarianBeast

> 



Looks like a model s and a mustang had a baby. Gross

----------


## Inzane

> Looks like a model s and a mustang had a baby. Gross



I try to imagine it without the black striping and white sidewall lettering. The main improvement i see is the better grill, and the body color c-pillar (katana thing).

----------


## heavyD

> Looks like a model s and a mustang had a baby. Gross



Looks pretty faithful to the original 280Z to me. It's a shame they couldn't have gone this direction.

----------


## richardchan2002

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...upra-compared/

In this comparison it looks like Supra is better than 400Z in every category. Some other comparisons seem to be closer.

----------


## Disoblige

If Supra ever comes in targa and manual, I'll buy one. Not because there aren't better options for the price, I just think it's fricken cool and that is good enough for me.

----------


## Darkane

> If Supra ever comes in targa and manual, I'll buy one. Not because there aren't better options for the price, I just think it's fricken cool and that is good enough for me.



I might like to check out the targa if it comes. I struggle to get in of the supra because of the angled window design - smash head everytime. Targa could fix that some of the time.

But it'll be 75k at that point.

----------


## zechs

> https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...upra-compared/
> 
> In this comparison it looks like Supra is better than 400Z in every category. Some other comparisons seem to be closer.



I'm guessing Car and Driver journalists don't know how to drive. 4th gen camaro's ran mid-low 13's with a stick back in the friggin 90's, and were contenders for a 13 flat if you weren't skierd to do a clutch dump on drag radials and take your chances the 10 bolt wouldn't die.

The 400z with its power is solidly high 12's. The supra with auto and launch control obviously slayed, kind of a pointless datapoint to get hung up on.

----------


## Darkane

> I'm guessing Car and Driver journalists don't know how to drive. 4th gen camaro's ran mid-low 13's with a stick back in the friggin 90's, and were contenders for a 13 flat if you weren't skierd to do a clutch dump on drag radials and take your chances the 10 bolt wouldn't die.
> 
> The 400z with its power is solidly high 12's. The supra with auto and launch control obviously slayed, kind of a pointless datapoint to get hung up on.



It has the power. Camissa raced a manual, and auto, and a supra. 

The auto Z was 12.3 - it moves. It has all of the 400hp.



Here.

----------


## heavyD

> I'm guessing Car and Driver journalists don't know how to drive. 4th gen camaro's ran mid-low 13's with a stick back in the friggin 90's, and were contenders for a 13 flat if you weren't skierd to do a clutch dump on drag radials and take your chances the 10 bolt wouldn't die.
> 
> The 400z with its power is solidly high 12's. The supra with auto and launch control obviously slayed, kind of a pointless datapoint to get hung up on.



Absolutely. No need to get overly focused on one datapoint when one of the cars is simply better all around.




> In every other way, the Supra wins the bout as the superior sports car. As much as the Z is better than the 370Z it replaces, it's more of a "sporty" car compared to the Supra.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

> It has the power. Camissa raced a manual, and auto, and a supra. 
> 
> The auto Z was 12.3 - it moves. It has all of the 400hp.
> 
> 
> 
> Here.



It sounds like they need to calibrate their launch control or something in their nannies (on the Z) because he mentioned excessive wheel spin through more than one gear, which seems like a ridiculous error.

----------


## zechs

> Absolutely. No need to get overly focused on one datapoint when one of the cars is simply better all around.



Oh I'm not arguing the Z is better than the Supra, I don't think that argument was ever in the running for being correct.

In Canada, I can see a sizeable price difference, and the car with more power and a stick being what I imagine $10k cdn or more cheaper sells it for me.

As TPiM pointed out, the Z is much faster than a 13 flat if the driving is spinning in multiple gears.

----------


## 94boosted

I cancelled my order for a Boulder Gray Z Performance at Fish Creek Nissan, I was #2 on their list, and the order was confirmed by Nissan Canada. FYI, in case anyone is interested.

Going to stick my '23 MT Supra order and just hope it comes by next spring.

----------


## heavyD

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...a-30-compared/




> We know. We hated to write that as much as you're disappointed to read it. One of the most oft-repeated mutterings during this test went something like "I wanted to like it more than I did." Our initial brief encounter with the Z at the launch event showed promise, but in this longer fight against direct and tangential rivals on roads of our own choosing, the long-awaited Z fell to the back of the pack. At first glance it captures the value and performance of the original Z quite well, but nothing brings flaws to light like several days of driving the competition.



I'm no Nissan lover for sure but as a supporter of sports cars and sporty models it's a shame this car is likely to be forgotten quickly.

----------


## bjstare

A shame, perhaps. Far from a surprise though.

Nissan gonna Nissan.

----------


## jutes

> https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...a-30-compared/



Test forgot to include the Camaro SS 1LE. Probably for the best.

----------


## vengie

Jeez I've written off the Mustang for years.

Good on Ford.

----------


## Kloubek

Honestly, I just don't like the looks of the new Z. I commented somewhere earlier in the thread about this, but I thought that maybe given more time it would grow on me. It hasn't.

I think the side profile looks good - although almost an identical shape to the outgoing model. In fact, I feel overall that too much of the old model found its way into this one.

I think the rear looks generally alright, and I like the retro-inspired taillights. 

But that front end just doesn't do it for me. I STILL feel the rectangle air intake in the front looks out of place and lacking design, and I also feel those headlights look too "droopy" as opposed to aggressive.

Now hearing that the performance is so-so, I can't see myself ever owning one of these.

----------


## killramos

I’ve heard nothing but good things about the Mach 1, a buddy picked one up and loves it.

----------


## ExtraSlow

Edit wrong thread>

----------


## Buster

> Edit wrong thread>



story of my life.

----------


## DonJuan

Looks like Nissan should have started with the 370Z Nismo suspension and improved from there.

Every test I've read they all complain about the damn Bridgestones; makes me wish some Sport Cup 2 could be a dealer installed option.

I still think Base model + LSD + Brakes and some after market goodies and tires will make this a quick fun car for cheaper than competitors. But lose all warranty in the process? nah

Nismo edition with new front bumper PLZ

----------


## killramos

Cup tires on this? lol

----------


## DonJuan

They put huge ones on the Mach 1. They turn anything into track car.

----------


## heavyD

> Jeez I've written off the Mustang for years.
> 
> Good on Ford.



To be fair to the other cars, the Mach 1 rides on massive Cup 2 tires. Massive advantage there. Very few non-exotic production cars come with 305 tires and those are just the front tires lol.

F: 305/30ZR-19 (98Y)
R: 315/30ZR-19 (100Y)

----------


## 94boosted

> To be fair to the other cars, the Mach 1 rides on massive Cup 2 tires. Massive advantage there. Very few non-exotic production cars come with 305 tires and those are just the front tires lol.
> 
> F: 305/30ZR-19 (98Y)
> R: 315/30ZR-19 (100Y)



It needs that much tire with its curb weight, that yank tank is heavy  :ROFL!:

----------


## zechs

Before the end of the world, a base 5.0 stick car was $35k+gst.

Nothing could come close to the performance bargain there. And the slap on a YUGE roots blower and run low 9's on ethanol.

----------


## bjstare

> Before the end of the world, a base 5.0 stick car was $35k+gst.
> 
> Nothing could come close to the performance bargain there. And the slap on a YUGE roots blower and run into crowds of innocent bystanders like it’s your job.



Ftfy

----------


## DonJuan

:ROFL!:  :ROFL!: 



Do the hokey pokey as the tow truck pulls you out

----------


## riander5

> I’ve heard nothing but good things about the Mach 1, a buddy picked one up and loves it.



I believe it. I had an old 2013 GT and loved that car. After watching the Mach 1 video put together by straight pipes.. fuck that car sounded good

- - - Updated - - -




> Ftfy



 :ROFL!:

----------


## Inzane

A re-match will be in order at some point, when a proper production model of the Z is available and when the Supra manual 6-spd is also available.

----------


## Toms-SC

> They put huge ones on the Mach 1. They turn anything into track car.






> To be fair to the other cars, the Mach 1 rides on massive Cup 2 tires. Massive advantage there. Very few non-exotic production cars come with 305 tires and those are just the front tires lol.
> 
> F: 305/30ZR-19 (98Y)
> R: 315/30ZR-19 (100Y)






> Cup tires on this? lol



Small nit, not all Mach 1's have the larger wheels and Cup 2 tires. They are part of an optional handling package. The standard wheels are 19 x 9.5 F / 19 X 10 R with PS4S tires.

----------


## heavyD

> Small nit, not all Mach 1's have the larger wheels and Cup 2 tires. They are part of an optional handling package. The standard wheels are 19 x 9.5 F / 19 X 10 R with PS4S tires.



Yes but the one in the comparison did.

----------


## ThePenIsMightier

TL;DW - Supra that's about 10% more money has more power and way more torque along with being lighter somehow turns out to be faster car.
Z "feels better".
Lap times barely faster than a GR86 which is like 40% less money!

----------


## richardchan2002

Another comparison. Mustang vs 370Z. Similar cost. Not surprising that the Mustang is faster, but it also brakes better and handles better even with the weight disadvantage. This is the final year of the old gen Mustang too, new Mustang is coming out in 2024.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023...omparison/amp/

----------


## Buster

Is the new Mustang going to be some electric bullshit?

----------


## jonni44

God I hope so. Not because I think its a good idea but I like to just watch the world burn.

----------


## riander5

> Another comparison. Mustang vs 370Z. Similar cost. Not surprising that the Mustang is faster, but it also brakes better and handles better even with the weight disadvantage. This is the final year of the old gen Mustang too, new Mustang is coming out in 2024.
> 
> https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023...omparison/amp/



I love the first line of the article 'the result may shock you'

No one is surprised by domestic pony cars laying beatdowns on Japanese 'sports' cars over the last decade

----------


## Darkane

> Is the new Mustang going to be some electric bullshit?



No. The next gen is carryover drivetrains with a sprinkling more power. 

Initially it was a whole new chassis, then Covid, world wars, and the dropping of the Camaro - ford said fuck it. They’re just going to heavily revise the current S550 chassis (not unlike the new Z on its platform). 

So if the current mustang is good, it’ll be really good - but not excellent like originally planned. 

I heard they’re not going to hybridize either, just going full electric next gen in ‘28. 

Let us see.

----------


## Kloubek

Fairlady z. Looks better imo.

----------


## killramos

It would look exactly the same if the left and right photos were the same size.

One is just a darker Color, on a dark background so you can see it less easily.

----------


## Tik-Tok

Nah, just having that coloured bumper moulding splitting the grill makes it look better, regardless of the colour (except obviously black)

----------


## DonJuan

Please excuse the bad resizing and scaling. Working with what software I have access to:
Verdict: Give us that front bumper Japan, and I kina like the the black and orange 2 tone too.

----------

